M W.

  • Posts: 149
Drought warning
« on: March 12, 2012, 03:04:01 pm »
Hya just heard that theres hosepipe bans in some parts of the country, bit woorying as its only march.
with enviromental issues escalating, has it affected any of you lot what with pressure washing/carpet-upholstery cleaning or any cleaning using a high volume of water

Len Gribble

  • Posts: 5106
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2012, 07:07:39 pm »
M.W

Most carpet cleaners use a bucket to fill machine unless they are TM like me then I need to use a hose but not for recreational use  ;)



What does a hosepipe ban mean?

Hosepipe bans, officially called Temporary Use Bans, ban 11 things in the home:
•   watering a garden using a hosepipe
•   cleaning a car using a hosepipe
•   watering plants using a hosepipe
•   cleaning a private leisure boat using a hosepipe
•   filling or maintaining a swimming or paddling pool
•   drawing water with a hosepipe for "recreational use"
•   filling or maintaining a domestic pond using a hosepipe
•   filling or maintaining an ornamental fountain
•   cleaning walls or windows with a hosepipe
•   cleaning paths or patios with a hosepipe
•   cleaning other artificial outdoor surfaces using a hosepipe.
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other. (Sidcup Kent)

BDCS

  • Posts: 4777
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2012, 09:07:15 pm »
Last time I found it led to more business as punters who would do it themselves had no choice than to get it done professionally if indeed they really wanted it done - we can all turn these things round if we look at things from a slightly differently angle. Hose pipe bans don't affect us professionals ;)

M W.

  • Posts: 149
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2012, 09:43:16 pm »
M.W

Most carpet cleaners use a bucket to fill machine unless they are TM like me then I need to use a hose but not for recreational use  ;)



What does a hosepipe ban mean?

Hosepipe bans, officially called Temporary Use Bans, ban 11 things in the home:
•   watering a garden using a hosepipe
•   cleaning a car using a hosepipe
•   watering plants using a hosepipe
•   cleaning a private leisure boat using a hosepipe
•   filling or maintaining a swimming or paddling pool
•   drawing water with a hosepipe for "recreational use"
•   filling or maintaining a domestic pond using a hosepipe
•   filling or maintaining an ornamental fountain
•   cleaning walls or windows with a hosepipe
•   cleaning paths or patios with a hosepipe
•   cleaning other artificial outdoor surfaces using a hosepipe.

BUT WE CAN FALL INTO ONE OF THESE CATERGORIES.

BDCS

  • Posts: 4777
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2012, 10:16:26 pm »
You don't need to shout. Joe public is what these measures apply to ie Joe cannot clean his car with a hose but you being a professional can clean your van, pressure wash a drive, etc. You don't see council swimming pools shut during a hose ban  ::)

Len Gribble

  • Posts: 5106
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2012, 07:56:17 pm »
Not really

Exemptions
The following will be exempted from the restriction:

i) using a hosepipe in a garden or for cleaning
walls or windows of domestic premises, paths
or patios, a private leisure boat or an artificial
outdoor surface, where such use is necessary
for health and safety reasons.

ii) watering a garden attached to a domestic
dwelling or watering plants on domestic
premises using a hosepipe, by people with
severe mobility problems who hold a current
Blue Badge as issued by their local authority.

iii) using a hosepipe to clean a private motor
vehicle, or walls and windows of domestic
premises, where this is done as a service to
customers in the course of a business.

iv) using a hosepipe to water an area of grass or
artificial outdoor surfaces used for sport or
recreation, where this is required in connection
with a national or international sports event.

v) drip or trickle irrigation watering systems, fitted
with a pressure reducing valve and a timer, that
are not handheld, that place water drip by drip
directly onto the soil surface or beneath the soil
surface, without any surface run off or dispersion
of water through the air using a jet or mist.


I must get on to Thames water re my soak-aways discount I believe and I have block paving with land drains.

The good old H&S have come to the rescue and I will be able to charge the wife for cleaning her car


 ;)
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other. (Sidcup Kent)

BDCS

  • Posts: 4777
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2012, 08:09:23 pm »
Bring it to Canada Heights and I'll do it when I do the bike at the end of the meeting

Len Gribble

  • Posts: 5106
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2012, 08:41:35 pm »
How did you know she comes from Swanley (opposite the old bus garage) is a rather ugly town (I can vouch for that town that is)

You must know Steve Knight another TM, er ;)
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other. (Sidcup Kent)

mike roberts

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2012, 01:04:21 pm »
just been told via violia water cant use a hose to fill up tank on any domestic job. Doesnt mattet if ur a business! Cant even use a hydrant if water is to be used on domestic job. Effectively now cant work in Violia areas on domestic jobs.

BDCS

  • Posts: 4777
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2012, 02:30:41 pm »
We best all sign on then  ;D How can those garlic snail scoffer merchant bankers tell us we can't work ? Won't stop me

Matt Gibson

  • Posts: 2482
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2012, 04:19:28 pm »
Ahhhh Scotland.  What's a drought order?  ;D

mike roberts

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2012, 05:16:33 pm »
Ahhhh Scotland.  What's a drought order?  ;D

Well for us its good bye business so not exactly laughing.

Len Gribble

  • Posts: 5106
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2012, 07:50:06 pm »
Mike

Was this a phone call or did you get it in writing from them? Ether way I would question the Exemptions item (iii) with them ;)
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other. (Sidcup Kent)

mike roberts

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2012, 08:09:05 pm »
Mike

Was this a phone call or did you get it in writing from them? Ether way I would question the Exemptions item (iii) with them ;)


Just posted this on Window cleaning side - where did you get exemptions from ? as all water boards are different.



Hello Donna (my partner)

Thank you for your quick response.  Having read through the restrictions unfortunately we would not be able to grant you a licence for any cleaning works for driveways (both domestic and commercial properties), patios and roofs of domestic properties.  This falls under the restricted activity of cleaning other artificial outdoor surfaces using a hosepipe.  It mentions that this activity would not be allowed regardless who is undertaking the cleaning and whether they are domestic or commercial.

Full details including the restrictions and definitions can be found on our drought webpage following this link https://central.veoliawater.co.uk/drought.aspx  If you have licences with neighbouring water companies it would be advisable to contact them also as we are one of 6 companies in the South East having to take these measures.

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me.

Regards, Kay

Kay Lewin
Hydrant Enforcement Team
___________________________________________
Veolia Water
Tamblin Way, Hatfield, Herts, AL10 9EZ
DD:    +44 (0)1707 398605 (Ext: 6605)
www.veoliawater.co.uk/central

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2012, 09:02:36 pm »
Hi Mike,

Same water auth. here also, as well as Thames Water what are you going to do?


mike roberts

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2012, 09:29:02 pm »
Hi Mike,

Same water auth. here also, as well as Thames Water what are you going to do?



Had good news from Anglian as we can continue just with Standpipes for now. But as from April looks like anything Violia way is no go even commercial we do alot of work in welwyn digswell all no good. Guys on window cleaning side have been given different info will ring 2mw and request written confirmation plus speak to Hydrant dept. so much for recycling - whats the point ...

We was booked up for 6wks not sure now... how about yourself ?


Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2012, 09:41:51 pm »
Booked till mid-june, can't see wimbledon being worried or cancel, and a few blue chip clients are not going to want to toe the line either. Might have a couple of clients that might feel guilty and may cancel, but to be honest, will wait till the Easter weekend and sound them out.

Len Gribble

  • Posts: 5106
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2012, 06:56:48 pm »
I didn’t get any exemption it was on there web site



http://www.thameswater.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/corp/hs.xsl/15443.htm


Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other. (Sidcup Kent)

Matt Gibson

  • Posts: 2482
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2012, 04:08:30 pm »
How r u guys getting on? Been reading the post in the windows section, so many conflicting messages from different companies!

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2012, 05:23:57 pm »
How r u guys getting on? Been reading the post in the windows section, so many conflicting messages from different companies!

And that is the problem, it seems each water company has a different view.

BDCS

  • Posts: 4777
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2012, 09:46:17 pm »
I wrote to my MP last night asking why I cannot work as they did let me the last time there was a hose ban

M W.

  • Posts: 149
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2012, 01:25:04 pm »
 ::) be rea ssured . by all accounts its gunna p down, so divent fret.
after reading all posts understand drought/hose pipe bans are a big issue down the country
more so than up here. apologise for my naivity.  :-[

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2012, 02:50:13 pm »
::) be rea ssured . by all accounts its gunna p down, so divent fret.
after reading all posts understand drought/hose pipe bans are a big issue down the country
more so than up here. apologise for my naivity.  :-[

MW
It is a big issue down here in the south & south-east, Water companies stances are not all the same even down here which is why there is the confusion. Couple of us on here are trying to find out what the hell is going on and are in contact with the water companies that will effect us.

Nice to see someone say I didn't know it is such an issue and not that you needed to, apologise, Now that makes a change.  Have a good weekend.

trevor perry

  • Posts: 2454
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2012, 03:24:48 pm »
as noted this doesnt apply to all of us as only parts of country are affected but this could soon change so surely it would be wise for everyone to takes an interest in this subject and do what we can to help the ones that are affected, if this situation was to go country wide then it will have a major impact on most people on this forums business so Roger and Mike let us know how we can help ie sign a petition or send a letter etc , also is the federation of window cleaners doing anything about this situation yet.
better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove any doubt

Matt Gibson

  • Posts: 2482
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2012, 07:43:05 pm »
Yeah I'm with Trevor. Made a comment earlier, bit in bad taste, bit like MW in that I didn't realize it was so serious.  So anything we can do, give us a shout.

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2012, 08:13:50 pm »
Trevor & Matt,

Thanks for the replies, I am trying to find out as much as I can, and hopefully have some sort of result later this week, and I think Mike is doing the same.

Maybe if a few more people took an interest in what is a real issue instead of burying there heads in the sand and woke up to real issues instead of blah blah blah, I think you get my drift.
Yep maybe Fed of WC could put some weight behind this, as we pressure washers have no fed or union or whatever you would want to call it, all down to the individuals to get info.

Maybe time to get some sort of body behind pressure washing and have it viewed in a different light.

Matt Gibson

  • Posts: 2482
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2012, 09:06:22 pm »
Would the idea of a standalone federation for the pressure washing industry be of interest to you guys? I was thinking about this today after the whole drought topic. What would you like to see as part of it? Obviously it would put alot more weight behind something like the drought/business use argument.

mike roberts

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2012, 10:10:45 pm »
Appreciate your comments .. as for federation maybe too late.  If it was to be based on anything like the 'National window cleaners' total waste of time.

I had the impression, that this forum was frequented by some 'big players' interesting to note not one has made a remark about the hose pipe ban.

Why is that ?

BDCS

  • Posts: 4777
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2012, 11:07:50 pm »
You seem to be under some misconception that the government gives a poop about a few pressure washers - they don't. The government recently made the sewage providers adopt private sewers and laterals - dyno rod were on the steering group and guess who got the contract for them all  ::) The games will flood the SE with immigrants, some of which will go back but how much water will they use while they are here ? The water companys surely don't want a hose ban because they will sell less, they will just want to extract more from the rivers to top up the resivoirs. WE write to our mp's who will send a standard letter saying they are deeply concerned about or plight and have forwarded the letter and that we might hear back from them in October. My tax return will reflect my downturn in earnings I'm sure.
My mp is called Mike Hunt I think

mike roberts

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2012, 08:21:00 am »
You seem to be under some misconception that the government gives a poop about a few pressure washers - they don't. The government recently made the sewage providers adopt private sewers and laterals - dyno rod were on the steering group and guess who got the contract for them all  ::) The games will flood the SE with immigrants, some of which will go back but how much water will they use while they are here ? The water companys surely don't want a hose ban because they will sell less, they will just want to extract more from the rivers to top up the resivoirs. WE write to our mp's who will send a standard letter saying they are deeply concerned about or plight and have forwarded the letter and that we might hear back from them in October. My tax return will reflect my downturn in earnings I'm sure.
My mp is called Mike Hunt I think

Where did you get that from ? I will ignore the lazy immigrants crap - I thought you was too young for the daily mail. On actually bothering to speak with Veolia (thats not a go at yourself - but the majority of wcs) it appears they are in dire straights, did you know next yr they have plans a foot to cut of water domestic, and resort to hydrants / bowsers!
Hose pipe ban is easy to implement, again its lazy recent stats it saved aprox 5%, Veolia didnt have a clue by including businesses the back lash they would receive hence they dont have the answers to our questions - all of which are pretty basic.
This whole problem has been caused via massive lack of forward thinking by themselves and a lack of investment in new technologies. You can put this down to privatisation but what did labour do to change things - f**k all.  We all know or should be awarel 1/5 of all treated water is lost via leaks (Thames is a 1/4) every local water company to myself have failed to acheive targets set by Ofwat. They have been served small fines.
Contacting Mps is just a tiny kick we are also contacting local media bla blah.... as posted above its now down to individual companies to plead their cases with Veolia (If they can be bothered!) If that doesnt work its goodbye.
You might be able to tell f**king angry about whole situation, again personally for me we are f**ked due to someone elses failings, the other companies continue to declare huge profits - somes this country up

You will be pleased to know this is my last post on here

BDCS

  • Posts: 4777
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2012, 10:56:16 am »
Why go ? I'm flattered you think I'm young  ;D I'm an ex miner that saw through the 84/85 strike and don't read any newspaper.

Matt Gibson

  • Posts: 2482
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2012, 11:41:15 am »
the 84/85 strike

I was 6  ;D


Mike, i can understand why your angry, i would be raging if it was me and yeah most people on here arent interested as its not affecting them, but you have good banter..so dont go :-*

Rob_Mac

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2012, 12:43:52 pm »
I don't get involved in anything until I know the facts, does this directly affect me, no, not at the moment but it has the potential to affect half of my works, at some stage.

Because I (Mike) was up against a brick wall (that I (Mike) couldn't see around) I would not turn on my peers, you have no idea what is being done behind the scenes.

In my opinion you have made yourself look like a child, who has spat his dummy out because he couldn't rally everyone on the forum to the cause.

I have had a look at your website Mike and to say that your business is solely reliant on domestic pressure washing is against what your website says.

Business will always throw curved balls and it is how you deal with the issues that come your way that will determine your success or not.

To rant that you are finished when you have options to move into other services till the issue is over (for this year) or to attempt to be the spokesperson that converses with the various water boards, to try and make sure that it affects your business less. You could have used the energy that you put into skipping round the forum like a headless chicken into forming  a consortium of names but you have to remember that half of the people on here don't run their businesses like they should and don't want to rock the boat and make themselves a target and as Matt says others couldn't care less as they are not affected.

I empathise with you and anyone else in the areas affected, I potentially could be one of them but I am already working on alternative revenue streams to minimise turn over disruption.

You, like everyone else had the warning, there has been no investment in desalination processing of sea water and there has been no rain, the water boards may have not done anything and are only thinking about profits before investment but that is business, despite what you think of it.

The water tables have shown significant reductions over the last few years and with no biblical rain forecasts due I am confident in expecting this to be an ongoing issue, not just this year but for more to come.

It is easy to blame someone else but your attitude stinks.

I don't care if you aren't on the forum, that will be your loss.

My business (if affected) will get through this problem by adapting and putting things in place to minimise future losses, it may be affected this year but won't be next year.

I would like to know who the industry movers and shakers are on here who have been silent because the reality of it is that it is a cleaning forum for small businesses (some larger than others) who are individuals and in it for themselves.

Stop bleating and look for ways around the situation!

Rob ;D

Rob_Mac

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2012, 01:16:49 pm »
I have copied and pasted the below, I did some work on a store in Beckton at the end of last year and didn't know about this.

The first large-scale desalination plant to turn seawater into drinking water for homes and businesses in the UK will open today in the latest sign of growing concern about water stress in the country's most populated regions.

Although the technology is more normally associated with parched places such as the Middle East and Australia, the south-east of England – where the plant is located – has less rainfall per person than Istanbul, Dallas or Sydney.

Thames Water has spent £250m building the plant and pipes, and has said that the equipment will only be turned on at times of drought, when it can supply up to 1 million people.

During a protracted planning case against the opposition of former London mayor Ken Livingstone, Thames Water claimed that London and the surrounding region faced "a high risk of sever water shortages" unless the plant was allowed to go ahead.

However opponents have claimed that the plant will use too much energy and the company should be doing more to stop leaking pipes and reduce the average water use of customers by installing more water meters and better promotions.

Concern that the company will start using the plant more often have also been fuelled by subtle changes in their literature: initially the plant would be used "during times of drought", but later that became "mainly during times of drought".

Elsewhere, water industry experts have speculated that Thames Water could in the long-term connect the desalination plant directly to the next-door Beckton sewage plant, in east London, to produce recycled water. The recycling process uses similar technology and is usually cheaper than desalting water, but has so far been too unpopular to be accepted by homes anywhere in the world except the Namibian capital Windhoek.

In a sign of the pressure Thames Water could face if it tried to increase use of the Beckton desalination plant, the Environment Agency's head of water, Ian Barker, yesterday said: "Although the Beckton desalination plant will help to provide London with secure water supplies during times of drought and peak demand, we all must do more to reduce water consumption. The Environment Agency believes that metering should be rolled out to households in water-stressed areas. The water industry must also continue to manage leakage from its network of pipes."

Since the Beckton plant was first proposed in 2004, Thames Water has made repeated attempts to reassure critics, including promising that 100% of the energy used by the desalination works – which by desalting the briny water in the Thames estuary rather than water from the deep seas will use considerably less energy than normal plants – will come from "renewable" biofuel, made from plants. Following concern about the energy required to grow some fuel crops, the company has also suggested that in future it will try to use waste cooking fat and oil from the capital's restaurants and homes.

The company, which in the last financial year made pre-tax profits of £435m on income of £1.6bn, has also said that although it has been ahead of its targets to fix leaking pipes, the disruption of speeding up the programme could bring the city to "gridlock", and that efficiency campaigns have led to reductions in water use but it does not believe that alone they will "provide the scale of savings needed".

In the midst of its planning struggle, the company also said it had considered other options to help the capital cope with rising population and the increasing risk of dry summers because of climate change. "While desalination uses more energy than conventional water treatment, the lack of alternative freshwater resources means that all the options had to be considered," it said in a statement. "Desalination actually uses less energy than some of the other schemes we examined."

The company has also said it has designed the systems to take water from the river and return the briny waste on the outgoing tide to minimise the risk to wildlife.

So far Britain's only desalination facilities have been limited to individual buildings, like the Millennium Dome, or small plants to top up agricultural or public supplies in Jersey and the Isles of Scilly. In recent years, Southern Water has also said it will look at building a coastal desalination plant near Brighton on the south coast of England.

Rob ;D

Rob_Mac

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2012, 01:25:30 pm »
Some more


Reliable fresh water supplies from challenging water sources

The world's water consumption rate is doubling every 20 years, outpacing by two times the rate of population growth. It is projected that by the year 2025 water demand will exceed supply by 56%, due to persistent regional droughts, shifting of the population to urban coastal cities, and water needed for industrial growth. The supply of fresh water is on the decrease. Water demand for food, industry and people is on the rise.

Lack of fresh water reduces economic development and lowers living standards. Clearly, there is a critical worldwide need to better manage this increasingly valuable resource.

Desalination systems from GE Water & Process Technologies can make abundant fresh water both from seawater and from challenging brackish sources.

Seawater Desalination
Oceans make up 97% of the world’s supply of water. Desalination using seawater reverse osmosis (SWRO) membrane technology has become a viable option for the development of new regional water supplies.

GE Water & Process Technologies is the world leader in the supply of reliable seawater SWRO membrane desalination systems. GE's desalination projects range in size from small 2,000 cubic meter/day (370 gpm) plants -- providing potable water to hotels and resort complexes -- all the way up to projects like the 200,000 cubic meter/day (53 MGD) Hamma Desalination Plant, the largest of its kind in Africa. Hamma supplies desperately-needed drinking water to over 20% of the population of Algeria’s capital city.

With over 20 years of seawater SWRO desalination operating and maintenance expertise, GE leads the industry in its practical knowledge of SWRO membrane design, SWRO membrane pretreatment design, SWRO membrane cleaning techniques, energy recovery devices and the selection of material of construction.

Brackish Water Desalination
Brackish water, containing minerals and salts typically less than 5,000 ppm total dissolved solids (TDS), can be economically treated with today's reverse osmosis (RO) and electrodialysis reversal (EDR) systems. Effective mineral and salt removal converts previously unusable waters to high-purity resources for drinking, irrigation or industrial process uses.

GE pioneered brackish water desalination in the early 1950s and continues to lead the way with cost-effective, environmentally friendly treatment systems for groundwater and surface water sources. Our global installed capacity includes approximately 250 mgd (950,000 m3/day) of EDR systems and 600 mgd (2.3 million m3/day) of RO systems.

EDR and RO systems are available in fixed land-based and mobile designs. GE designs and builds the systems and in many cases also operates them under full-service build-own operate contracts.

If you are going to fight a cause I believe in being educated!

Rob ;D

Rob_Mac

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2012, 01:37:02 pm »
And more
Wind power reduces environmental impacts of desalination plants
Water security is becoming an increasingly urgent problem as populations grow and the demand for freshwater increases. One solution is the desalination (desalting) of seawater or brackish water to produce freshwater. However, the process of desalination consumes large amounts of energy. If the energy comes from fossil fuels, environmental pollution will increase. Using renewable sources of energy, such as wind power, is seen as a viable energy alternative.
Worldwide, the use of renewable energy in desalination systems is not widespread and less than 1% of the capacities of desalination plants are powered by renewable energy. However, the development of small and medium-scale desalination plants using wind power is increasing. Since the early 1980s, wind-powered desalination plants or prototypes have been in operation, principally in Europe (Spain, France, Germany and the UK), Hawaii and Australia.
The study identifies two desalination processes as particularly suitable to being powered by renewable sources: mechanical vapour compression (MVC) (a thermal desalination unit), during which the feed water is heated; and reverse osmosis (RO) (a non-phase change process), where a membrane is used to separate salts from the feed water.
Wind energy can be used directly or indirectly to power these (and other) desalination technologies. RO plants are frequently found on the coast where it is often windy, and as RO is one of the most efficient desalination processes, it is one of the most suitable for integration with wind energy. MVC installations are more robust than RO plants and are better placed in remote locations with abundant wind power.
The study discusses technical problems associated with the intermittent nature of wind power, and issues with achieving the greatest energy efficiency from wind energy still need to be resolved. Two key strategies for addressing this are:
 Integrate wind and other types of renewable energy sources, such as photovoltaic energy, to even out the power variations and interruptions associated with wind power.
 Construct a flexible desalination system that can operate with a variable energy input. Backup storage or additional energy supplies would then be unnecessary.
The study recommends that future wind-powered desalination plants should be thermal desalination types, which produce high quality water with fewer polluting discharges. Two newer designs of thermal distillation plants (a humidification-dehumidification process and vacuum distillation) operate at lower temperatures compared with current MVC processes. Lower operating temperatures do not require as much wind energy to be turned into heat, as is currently the case, which would reduce the costs of desalination and increase the energy efficiency use from the wind power.
Wind energy has been demonstrated to be a suitable alternative to conventional energy for operating desalination plants, particularly on the coast.

Rob ;D

BDCS

  • Posts: 4777
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2012, 02:35:41 pm »
The point is that the Government of the time handed out the water companies to private concerns with the aim of making as much money as they can, in Veolia's case being French so our money which should be reinvested in infrastructure just goes abroad. This area alone we have a French power cable coming in to Sellinge from France and the old Richborough power station is to house a power cable from Belgium - they would not put these cables under the channel if the potential profits are not huge.
The government has in the past and present sold its soul to the devil and is now reaping the rewards - at our cost.

Rob_Mac

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2012, 04:05:14 pm »
Carl

I agree with you but there is a answer sitting at Beckton to a lot of the problem. It may well be that it is expensive to run but it would seem that the South East is in need of water.

I would be asking at what point the desalination plant is going to be switched on and it would be interesting to get the stats on how helpful it has been and how much it has been used since it completion.

If you combine all of the long copy & pastes together in my eyes it would cost very little to run the plant, there are wind farms that I am sure could handle this, that are already in place.

Rob ;D

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2012, 05:24:07 pm »
At the end of the day each individual has to take whatever measures, that seem fit to make sure there business is safe. Yes there is a drought order coming and I am personally trying to find out what I can and cannot do re work with the laws (and staying within the law) as it stands at the moment, and when I find out anything more will post on here. If the ruling goes against me, I for one won't be stopping or closing down my business even if it means breaking the law/order,as I have clients/business's that will want works done no matter what. I can see all sides of the replies to this thread.



BDCS

  • Posts: 4777
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2012, 02:53:54 pm »
Veolia have again told us that pressure washing is most definately banned unless being done for H&S reasons SO I will put together a very carefully worded disclaimer in which that is the only reason the work is being done for this reason alone and will get it signed before the start. I have also briefed the call centre staff  ;D

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2012, 06:19:49 pm »
Carl, Can you give me a call when you get a moment.

Rob_Mac

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2012, 06:23:19 pm »
Roger

Is there anything we can do to put some names and weight behind anything you have planned?

Rob ;D

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2012, 06:39:24 pm »
Roger

Is there anything we can do to put some names and weight behind anything you have planned?

Rob ;D

Rob,

I have put forward my representation's to both Thames & Veolia, and it seems any new rulings will be made before the end of March from the emails I have received back from both companies, so at a guess until then don't think there is anymore one can do at this time.
As I said earlier each person/company needs to put their case forward.

Don't think this one is going to be an easy ride though.

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2012, 09:27:55 pm »
One other thought I have just had, if paving can be cleaned for H&S reasons, who is going to make that call? us as pressure washers, the water companies or are we going to get an H&S executive come out to evrey job we have booked in after 5th April to access the risk?

Madness.

Rob_Mac

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2012, 09:41:54 pm »
Roger

As you know I am exempt from the hosepipe ban but am expecting within a couple of months for the drought order to cause some problems.

I have works at Southampton, Torquay, Slough - all imminently due and I will probably finish them before any drought regs come in.

To counter concerns I have works at Manchester, Southport and others, these will not be affected - as it stands!

I have further works at Dartmouth and before the end of the year will have at least 20 stores in the problem area.

My thoughts are probably different to the domestic argument in as much as  the stores will want builders mud, rubbish etc cleared away before the stores are re opened and the store and principle contractors may see it as a H & S issue. As you say who will make that call because the water companies cannot determine what is a H & S risk as well as I can or any contracts manager/s.

I still would like to know how much use the desalination plant, at Beckton has gotten in the last 5 years and if and when it is going to be switched on for the current situation.

Rob ;D

mark bowditch

  • Posts: 142
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2012, 11:06:15 pm »
HI Rob
that's an easy to answer none
due to come on line within the next few weeks properly after hose pipe  ban starts
as far as I'm concerned it should be running 24 seven and pumping the water into the reservoirs
I think it is considered too expensive to run don't want to hurt their profit is also wind turbines within half a mile so they could easily installed one to run the plant

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2114832/Desalination-plant-provide-million-people-water-taken-River-Thames-drought-hits.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

mark
Pressure Washing and Maintenance
http://www.grimeforce.co.uk

mike roberts

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #46 on: March 20, 2012, 03:25:15 pm »
may of been abit harsh.. But i still think ur an arse rob  ;D ! Putting that to one side, had response from mp written to director of veolia plus defra as he says it unaceptable the effect on small companies also local media are getting involved...
Just a thought i think we are all agreed prob may escalate how about starting a facebook page  ??? ... Dont all laugh, that way it can bring us altogether plus friends plus general public could easily achieve thousands of likes also act as a source to direct media etc..
I think a personally feel a big push should be... why are water companies not helping us to recycle /save water? As opposed to simply stopping us from trading... What do you think? Ps using a phone bloody nightmare

Rob_Mac

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2012, 07:48:16 pm »
Mike

Got you back posting though didn't it!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

Rob ;D

mark bowditch

  • Posts: 142
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #48 on: March 20, 2012, 08:12:59 pm »
Taken from Thames water website
section 3 in blue surely needs to include pressure washing done as a service to customers in the course of a business.
 I think we should all e-mail the person below with our thoughts and they may updated it
this must be done no later than Thursday
21 March
Exemptions
The following will be exempted from the restriction:
1.   using a hosepipe in a garden or for cleaning walls or windows of domestic premises, paths or patios, a private leisure boat or an artificial outdoor surface, where such use is necessary for health and safety reasons.
2.   watering a garden attached to a domestic dwelling or watering plants on domestic premises using a hosepipe, by people with severe mobility problems who hold a current Blue Badge as issued by their local authority.
3.   using a hosepipe to clean a private motor vehicle, or walls and windows of domestic premises, where this is done as a service to customers in the course of a business.
4.   using a hosepipe to water an area of grass or artificial outdoor surfaces used for sport or recreation, where this is required in connection with a national or international sports event.
5.   drip or trickle irrigation watering systems, fitted with a pressure reducing valve and a timer, that are not handheld, that place water drip by drip directly onto the soil surface or beneath the soil surface, without any surface run off or dispersion of water through the air using a jet or mist.
Representations
Representations about this notice may be made in writing to the Public Consultations team, 2nd East, Thames Water, Clearwater Court, Vastern Road, Reading RG1 8DB, or by email to consultations@thameswater.co.uk. Representations must be received before the end of 21 March 2012.
If, as a result of such representations, any terms of the prohibition are varied, a further notice will be published. The restriction will come into force at midnight on 4 April 2012 and will remain in force until further notice
Pressure Washing and Maintenance
http://www.grimeforce.co.uk

mike roberts

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2012, 08:59:51 pm »
Mike

Got you back posting though didn't it!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

Rob ;D


Errrr  >:(

Personally I have better things to do on a Sunday  ;D ;D

I fell asleep after 1st para................. woke up Monday  ;D ;D


This will make you laugh..
We have a commercial job to price only small 2 guys / boom 1-2 days,
std metal cladded factory roof with roof lights, My partner contacted Veolia today to check no problems as commercial - They said it was fine to clean roof as long as we dont touch the roof lights  ;D ;D What!

mike roberts

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #50 on: March 20, 2012, 09:10:58 pm »
Taken from Thames water website
section 3 in blue surely needs to include pressure washing done as a service to customers in the course of a business.
 I think we should all e-mail the person below with our thoughts and they may updated it
this must be done no later than Thursday
21 March
Exemptions
The following will be exempted from the restriction:
1.   using a hosepipe in a garden or for cleaning walls or windows of domestic premises, paths or patios, a private leisure boat or an artificial outdoor surface, where such use is necessary for health and safety reasons.
2.   watering a garden attached to a domestic dwelling or watering plants on domestic premises using a hosepipe, by people with severe mobility problems who hold a current Blue Badge as issued by their local authority.
3.   using a hosepipe to clean a private motor vehicle, or walls and windows of domestic premises, where this is done as a service to customers in the course of a business.
4.   using a hosepipe to water an area of grass or artificial outdoor surfaces used for sport or recreation, where this is required in connection with a national or international sports event.
5.   drip or trickle irrigation watering systems, fitted with a pressure reducing valve and a timer, that are not handheld, that place water drip by drip directly onto the soil surface or beneath the soil surface, without any surface run off or dispersion of water through the air using a jet or mist.
Representations
Representations about this notice may be made in writing to the Public Consultations team, 2nd East, Thames Water, Clearwater Court, Vastern Road, Reading RG1 8DB, or by email to consultations@thameswater.co.uk. Representations must be received before the end of 21 March 2012.
If, as a result of such representations, any terms of the prohibition are varied, a further notice will be published. The restriction will come into force at midnight on 4 April 2012 and will remain in force until further notice


Mark - Bit like the others here We dont work in Thames so have not spoken to them, did mention this to Roger the other day. When the other companies refer to hosepipes they are including pressure washers... Anglian state the same have spoken to them and have confirmed we can continue as normal!

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #51 on: March 20, 2012, 09:26:41 pm »
Mark
You have to get your representations in by 21st March so by tomorrow, did mine the other day along with Veolia, answers will be know around 27th March.

Blast Away

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2012, 10:50:45 pm »
Email from Spinaclean today

Quote
"Professional Paving Cleaning Companies Unaffected by the Localised Temporary Hose Pipe Ban"

Temporary Hose Pipe Ban due to take effect on 6th April in selected areas of the UK

 
Over the last 8 years Spinaclean and Jetstream have helped many new businesses “live the dream” to run their own driveway and sealing business. Other existing businesses have also enhanced their service by offering our systems too.

The temporary hosepipe ban concerns us as we still operate a localised domestic and commercial cleaning and sealing service that employs two full time operatives.

To completely understand the full ramifications we contacted a number of Water Authorities affected by the imminent ban enabling us to give accurate feedback to you,our customers.       

The most Important message is, if you are running a genuine paving cleaning business YOU ARE EXEMPT and do not fall under the restrictions…great news!

Please see below typical extraction stating what can be carried out during a hosepipe ban from Anglian Water Authority website

14th March 2012


·    "Use a hosepipe in the course of a business to clean a private motor vehicle, or for cleaning walls or windows of domestic premises, paths or patios or an artificial outdoor surface, where this is done as a service to customers"

To put a positive spin on perhaps a negative, we could become busier as the domestic user will be unable to clean their patio or driveway using their own pressure washer where we as a business could do it for them!


We have visited most water authority websites and personally contacted Anglian and Thames Water Direct to confirm our findings. We would of course recommend that you call your own local water authority to confirm our statements

Please see this useful link that also has a search by post code facility to check whether you’ll be in a temporary ban area www.anglianwater.co.uk

If the temporary ban affects you we have some tips and few creations and offers that may help your business

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #53 on: March 21, 2012, 06:45:29 am »
Nice post Lee,
But what Andy hasn't said is that none of the water companies are agreeing with each other, that statement is from Anglia water. Thames & Veolia (which is my 2 main areas) say totally different.
Hopefully around the 27th-28th March there will be some solid facts as to what we can or cannot do as it seems a bit of a mess at the moment.

BDCS

  • Posts: 4777
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #54 on: March 21, 2012, 03:59:12 pm »
    The missus has finished speaking to the three water companies in our area - they all say something totally different and their attitude differs a huge amount. Southeast water said he did'nt understand why they all say different things as they were all there when the draught was done and as far as he was concerned it was work as normal if you do it for a living. E mails have gone off to all the water companies and Defra but I have as yet not recieved a reply from my MP so he has also been copied in on it all.
    Thge government has today shown how much they value small busines's input to the economy by first banning us from using water then hiking the fuel tax - Happy Days  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Smurf

  • Posts: 8538
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #55 on: March 21, 2012, 05:26:23 pm »
I've also sent an email/letter to Thames water so will let you lads know if I get any response.

BDCS

  • Posts: 4777
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2012, 12:48:03 pm »
Had a phone call from Southern water who said it was fine to carry on and will confirm in writing before April 5th , 1 down 2 to go and then still waiting on a reply from the MP and DEFRA.  ;D

Kenny83

  • Posts: 1131
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2012, 07:45:26 pm »
may of been abit harsh.. But i still think ur an arse rob  ;D ! Putting that to one side, had response from mp written to director of veolia plus defra as he says it unaceptable the effect on small companies also local media are getting involved...
Just a thought i think we are all agreed prob may escalate how about starting a facebook page  ??? ... Dont all laugh, that way it can bring us altogether plus friends plus general public could easily achieve thousands of likes also act as a source to direct media etc..
I think a personally feel a big push should be... why are water companies not helping us to recycle /save water? As opposed to simply stopping us from trading... What do you think? Ps using a phone bloody nightmare

Facebook page is a great idea mike, no harm in tring, set one up mate
Pressure Washing -
www.powerwashcleaning.co.uk

Smurf

  • Posts: 8538
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #58 on: March 25, 2012, 11:43:24 am »
Has anyone got a response back from Thames water yet?


Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #60 on: March 25, 2012, 02:04:26 pm »
Has anyone got a response back from Thames water yet?

Not as yet, nor from Veolia or East Surrey & Sutton for that matter. They did all say around the 27th March before any updates would be announced.

BDCS

  • Posts: 4777
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #61 on: March 25, 2012, 05:20:28 pm »
Roger,
         The lady who rang me did so in error because if you have made a company representation then it can only be replied to by the campany secretary in person, a second lady then rang to tell me this. Officially they cannot be answered till the date as you have said.




































Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #62 on: March 25, 2012, 06:20:54 pm »
Cheers Carl,
Yep, 27th March is the date, nothing till then.
Commonsense will out on this one I feel, if not there will be a company truck going through the front doors of any of the said companies  ;)

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #63 on: March 27, 2012, 08:52:51 pm »
We got the all clear to carry on from East Surrey & Sutton Water today. 1 down 2 to go.

mike roberts

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2012, 09:07:24 pm »
We got the all clear to carry on from East Surrey & Sutton Water today. 1 down 2 to go.

Good news !

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2012, 09:29:09 pm »
They are saying on the WC side, that Veolia have/are giving the all clear to business's subject to a couple of items.

mike roberts

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2012, 09:51:36 am »
just had confirmation from veolia we can continue as norm great news!

Matt Gibson

  • Posts: 2482
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2012, 10:24:14 am »
Good stuff mate..

mike roberts

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #68 on: March 28, 2012, 04:58:31 pm »
Tar matey  ;D Matt are you still after a whirlaway  ???

Matt Gibson

  • Posts: 2482
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #69 on: March 28, 2012, 07:42:46 pm »
Yes mate. For the right price though  ;D as I just had to spend £600 on the van.

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2012, 07:45:30 pm »
just had confirmation from veolia we can continue as norm great news!

Email or phone call Mike?

mike roberts

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2012, 08:27:43 pm »
Phone call Roger - Matt send me an email mike@greatoutdoorsandin.co.uk will give you the details if you want it you can have it  ;D

Cliff perkins

  • Posts: 1257
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2012, 08:35:08 pm »
So can we carry on as usual untill  another notice or we ok for the rest of the summer. :o
Www.1stglasswindowcleaning.co.uk

mike roberts

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2012, 08:39:40 pm »
For ****'s sake

Roger how do you keep so calm  ;D   :P

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #74 on: March 28, 2012, 10:27:15 pm »
For ****'s sake

Roger how do you keep so calm  ;D   :P

If only  ;)

Matt Gibson

  • Posts: 2482
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #75 on: March 29, 2012, 03:38:48 pm »
Mike, Emailed ya. cheers   :D

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #76 on: March 30, 2012, 04:45:59 pm »
Finally got the all clear in writing from Veolia and Thames water have updated there web-site giving us the all clear too.
Happy Days :D

Smurf

  • Posts: 8538
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #77 on: March 30, 2012, 05:46:39 pm »
Great News about Thames water!!! Many thanks for all your help...

M W.

  • Posts: 149
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #78 on: April 05, 2012, 05:39:45 pm »
  :o Being cleaning caravans today, 6ft snow drifts in places & 4/5 inch on the
ground, and hot enough to put me speedos on  ;D  one extreme to the next. duno if the white stuff fell
on you southern lot.
cheers mal.

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #79 on: April 05, 2012, 06:22:08 pm »
Mal,

No snow in the London area, no rain either.
To be honest don't need any rain tonight either as I have a deck to oil tomorrow.

Cliff perkins

  • Posts: 1257
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #80 on: April 05, 2012, 07:48:57 pm »
You guys seem to be pressure washing still o is it still ok to do it then ?
Www.1stglasswindowcleaning.co.uk

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #81 on: April 05, 2012, 08:05:04 pm »
You guys seem to be pressure washing still o is it still ok to do it then ?

Cliff
To be honest mate this has been a topic for over the last month or so, I suggest you check your local water companies website, (Veolia for you as you are in Berkshire) and then interpret what the conditions are. First of all though did you apply in writing to Veolia water about what you do, before the deadline in late March to check if you would be exempt?

Cliff perkins

  • Posts: 1257
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #82 on: April 06, 2012, 09:04:00 am »
No i didnt contact the water board and didnt know i had to
Regards
Www.1stglasswindowcleaning.co.uk

M W.

  • Posts: 149
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #83 on: April 06, 2012, 06:00:08 pm »
Mal,

No snow in the London area, no rain either.
To be honest don't need any rain tonight either as I have a deck to oil tomorrow.
hope it kept off for you, drizzled all day here, typical bank holl weather.

Roger Oakley

Re: Drought warning
« Reply #84 on: April 06, 2012, 08:42:20 pm »
Mal,
Yep dry this morning so decking all sanded and oiled, the next door neighbours weren't to happy with sanders going at 08:30 but hey get over it. Wish I had took a couple of photos of this one, decking hadn't been touched for about 5 years, and the Yorkstone that I cleaned there yesterday as well was as far as the owners were aware had never been cleaned, circa 175 years old, and it came up a treat, they didn't even know the colours of the stone were there.

Have a good weekend mate.

craig jwc

  • Posts: 1076
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #85 on: April 16, 2012, 08:20:17 am »
We've just been added to the drought area now in the south west today.

Just spoken to South West Water & was told that we have just over 85% of all our water storage full so no chance of hose bans etc here.

As we pay alot more in water rates they have actually invested it better to make sure we are ok.

This is what I was told this morning & hope it's true.


AC Pressure

  • Posts: 138
Re: Drought warning
« Reply #86 on: April 16, 2012, 12:50:15 pm »
We in the West midlands have also been told we are now in a drought however there will be no hosepipe ban imposed on us this year.