Peter Stevenson

  • Posts: 17
Starting up a cleaning company New
« on: December 30, 2005, 03:12:58 pm »
Hi,

I currently work for a cleaning contractors company which is in Leeds as a cleaning supervisor and my wage is £8.50 per hour. The actual contract is based in Southampton, I basically run the whole show, employing new employees, covering for absentees, filling in the wage sheets, ordering equipment and materials etc..

The reason I've come to this forum is to seek advice to start-up my own cleaning company, I believe as I am already running the contract at the moment with a team of 8 cleaners but actually earning someone else a wage who is sat inside an office and not helping at all, and only phones me every few months to see if everything is running smoothly...  >:( 

I run a very good professional team and I have a several reliable cleaners who want to come with me and try and get our own cleaning contract. We're not after loads of contracts, ideally starting with small/medium size contracts, we're only aiming for enough to secure ourselves for a annual wage and not to secure more than that.

The information we are seeking is how to actually set-up our own company to start applying to potential clients i.e. registering a company name, writing up contracts, legal documents needed, what kind of insurance needed?

Any help would be most appreciated.

Pete.

Fox

  • Posts: 824
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2005, 04:12:01 pm »
Hi Pete

If you are going to go alone I wish every success but remember that that person sitting in an office is the person who did the marketing to get the contract, sold the services, does the payroll, buys in the equipment and materials etc etc etc, they also gave you a job!

No offence but running a contract with 8 cleaners is nothing like running a Company.  I sit in an office most of my day running a small/medium sized business while many people who work for me are out on site supervising and cleaning, I do not see them as 'earning me a wage' and think your thoughts on that matter are way past the mark!

Do a search on this site and you will find plenty of info on how to start up and what you need to have in place.  Here's a short list to start you off -

P&EL Ins
Employment info inc contracts
Client contract terms and conditions
H & S
COSHH
Risk Ass

Fox

Re: Starting up a cleaning company New
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2005, 04:25:40 pm »
Hello Peter,
Info how to register a company available here: http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/
You could follow the links in my signature, to see get access to some of the legal documents, which you may require.  From here you can also get some info as well: www.point2point-cleaning.co.uk 
I would also suggest visiting your local Business Link
Good luck,
Arthur

blacksheep

  • Posts: 387
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2005, 06:50:38 pm »
hi, you can add this to your list ,may help www.lawpack.co.uk a book on employment law , everything you need to protect your rights as an employee or employer  from hiring to firing   by melanie slocombe regards blacksheep

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2005, 07:13:18 pm »
hi, you can add this to your list ,may help www.lawpack.co.uk a book on employment law , everything you need to protect your rights as an employee or employer  from hiring to firing   by melanie slocombe regards blacksheep

blacksheep,

If you ask me whether I can add to my list/signature the link to www.lawpack.co.uk, the answer is I cannot.  Because maximum number of characters allowed to be used in the signature is 200 and my signature, which includes the BBC code, is made of exactly 200 characters. 

I am afraid, there is nothing I can do about it.

Regards,

Arthur

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2005, 10:25:27 pm »
Arthur ,

Did you buy that Cleaning Point Kit £77 you have mentioned in previous posts.

Was it worth a pound a page


Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2005, 11:49:24 pm »
Arthur ,

Did you buy that Cleaning Point Kit Ł77 you have mentioned in previous posts.

Was it worth a pound a page

Ian,

I did not buy it, but looking at the list of the documents, which point2point includes in this kit, I would say it is worth £77.  It is much cheaper than a franchise…

I am saying it also because I have paid over £700 to a solicitor for preparation "Statement of Terms and Conditions of Employment" and "Grievance & Disciplinary Procedure", so if I knew at that time about point2point I would have saved myself about £600.

The contents of point2point was briefly discussed here

Regards,

Arthur


blacksheep

  • Posts: 387
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2006, 03:37:58 pm »
sorry AJ CLEANING did not read all thread, my thread was meant for peter, who was as i thought looking for advice the link is a book which i found very helpful and i thought he may as well regards blacksheep

lynngc

  • Posts: 242
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2006, 09:07:26 pm »
i bought the point2point manual and cd recently.
i found it more for if you wanted to run an agency.
still worth every penny.
i changed the wording of the(agency) to company on letter heads etc. just play around with it.
i found it a good starter point
has many documents, on the cd which you will use, and standard customer letters

good luck

lynn
lynn @ gower cleaning services, swansea.

Peter Stevenson

  • Posts: 17
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2006, 01:00:19 pm »
First of all I'd like to thank everyone for their responses.

Fox, no need to get stroppy as everyone is entitled their opinion. I strongly disagree with your comments and as for the lack of communication via myself and my employer is totally unacceptable, I believe their should be some kind of contact between the employer and employees for good understanding of what needs to be achieved to retain a good business. I mean how hard can it be to use a phone  ???

Yes my employer sealed the contract, but as clearly stated within my thread I prepare the sheets for entering into the payroll software, the materials and equipment are ordered by me and paid by the company I supervisor at, therefore I basically do a hell of alot! And if you do not see it as us cleaners/supervisors not 'earning you a wage' then why do it?

Update: After doing some research we have managed to register a company name, drawn up the terms and condition along with other paper work with our lawyers and we have prepared that all important contract ready to sign with a company. We have proposed several offers to businesses today and we will await for their response. Thanks again for the advice!

Fox

  • Posts: 824
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2006, 03:32:58 pm »
Me? Stroppy? Never!   :o

That wasn't any where near stroppy for me - actually it was very polite! As you say everyone is entitled to their opinion but surely you realise once you voice that opinion on a public forum you may get people who disagree!

I don't recall saying anything in my post about your employers lack of communication and I do happen agree with you on that point, I was merely stating that employers do not just sit on their rears waiting for employees to earn their wage for them!  Infact I could go as far as reversing the whole thing and say that the employer is the one allowing the employee to make a living!  There are two sides to a coin, more to a book than it's cover etc etc etc!

Anyhow good to know from your update you are getting on ok and hope you get some response from the businesses you have sent proposals to.

Fox 

CMS

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2006, 03:39:03 pm »
Oh boy! There's one guy heading for a fall?

It just goes to demonstrate that you haven't got a clue what we actually do Peter.

Now that you're 'ready to go and awaiting decisions' I presume you have in place all the other stuff such as..........

Insurance
Risk Assessments
COSHH Data
Training
Registration with Inland Revenue
VAT
Bank Account


I thought so..........

CMS

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2006, 03:40:16 pm »
Hi,

I basically run the whole show

No you don't....nowhere near!

Peter Stevenson

  • Posts: 17
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2006, 05:22:23 pm »
Oh boy! There's one guy heading for a fall?

It just goes to demonstrate that you haven't got a clue what we actually do Peter.

Now that you're 'ready to go and awaiting decisions' I presume you have in place all the other stuff such as..........

Insurance
Risk Assessments
COSHH Data
Training
Registration with Inland Revenue
VAT
Bank Account


I thought so..........


CMS, nice of you to join in the conversation...

For your information I wouldn't rush into setting up a new business and we have been very careful and patient gaining information in each necessary department. We have gone over this information with a business advisor and we are all set to go, everything is now set-up  ;D

Peter Stevenson

  • Posts: 17
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2006, 05:29:13 pm »
Me? Stroppy? Never!   :o

That wasn't any where near stroppy for me - actually it was very polite! As you say everyone is entitled to their opinion but surely you realise once you voice that opinion on a public forum you may get people who disagree!

I don't recall saying anything in my post about your employers lack of communication and I do happen agree with you on that point, I was merely stating that employers do not just sit on their rears waiting for employees to earn their wage for them!  Infact I could go as far as reversing the whole thing and say that the employer is the one allowing the employee to make a living!  There are two sides to a coin, more to a book than it's cover etc etc etc!

Anyhow good to know from your update you are getting on ok and hope you get some response from the businesses you have sent proposals to.

Fox 

Fox: I apologise if I misinterpreted you, I appreciate your advice and knowledge.

CMS

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2006, 05:41:27 pm »
Oh boy! There's one guy heading for a fall?

It just goes to demonstrate that you haven't got a clue what we actually do Peter.

Now that you're 'ready to go and awaiting decisions' I presume you have in place all the other stuff such as..........

Insurance
Risk Assessments
COSHH Data
Training
Registration with Inland Revenue
VAT
Bank Account


I thought so..........


CMS, nice of you to join in the conversation...

For your information I wouldn't rush into setting up a new business and we have been very careful and patient gaining information in each necessary department. We have gone over this information with a business advisor and we are all set to go, everything is now set-up  ;D


So, you have all of those things in place then?

garyj

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2006, 02:55:28 am »
I think what Peter is doing is a great idea. And when he is up and running I hope some of his staff follow his lead and do the same to him. His old company may even have a court claim for loss of earnings.

Peter you are the lowest of the low, over the years I've seen many people try the same trick, and EVERY time they have come unstuck.

CMS

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2006, 07:43:58 am »
Well said Gary

Peter, when you've done all this preparation, won your business, risked your money etc. (in fact all of the things that your employer has done for you)..................I sincerely hope that someone just like you comes along and takes it all away.

When you come to compete in the 'real' world you'll find it very different. THAT is when you'll realise that there is more to running a cleaning company than you think there is.


preston powerblast

  • Posts: 445
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2006, 08:27:08 am »
Let the games begin as they say.
Lets face it anybody can actually do this and go it alone.
Very few succeed.
But at least spare a thought for the guy who has kept you and you colleagues in work. Who has trusted you whole heartedly and by the sounds of it and thinks you are very competant at your job and leaves you to get on with it without breathing down your neck all day.
But I am a great believer that what goes around comes around, and in this industry its bad to burn your bridges.
But many start up their own cleaning companies and rely on big firms for a bit of sub contract work to get started, but someone like yourself just couldnt be trusted because you would be trying to to steal the contract and people wouldnt deal with you.
Wish I was employed.

CMS

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2006, 08:42:06 am »
I think you've got the picture now Peter. We have all worked bloody hard to build our businesses. Then you have the cheek to come on here and ask us for advice on how to 'steal' your employers contract.

If you'd have come on here saying you wanted to run a cleaning business and then gone off and won a contract fairly, we would have had far more respect for you. We would even have helped you - well I would anyway.

I hope you lose a fortune. You've already lost your self respect.

D woods

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2006, 11:00:03 am »
thats a tad harsh

CMS

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2006, 11:04:03 am »
No it isn't. Do you think it's OK for your Cleaners/Supervisors to take your work?

D woods

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2006, 11:43:33 am »
we have internal procedures in place to stop this ever happening.
But i still think it is a bit strong to say I hope you lose a fortune. The guy is only
trying to provide the best he can for hes family

CMS

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2006, 12:08:48 pm »
I have no problem with that. As I said before, if he wanted to genuinely start a cleaning company I, and many others on here would have supported him all the way.

It's just the manner in which he's done it.

Peter's employer will have invested money in that contract in some way shape or form..............to win it and to service it.

Does Peter care about his employer losing money? Of course he doesn't.

D woods

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2006, 12:33:26 pm »
I have been in the cleaning industry since 1979 and in my experiance everyone
that starts up there own cleaning business trys to take a contract or two with
them when they leave and start up on ther own.

CMS

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2006, 01:25:52 pm »
Well, I have been in the industry for that long too...................

I agree, it happens often.

That doesn't make it right though.

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2006, 02:07:18 pm »
we have internal procedures in place to stop this ever happening...

That is the way forward.  One part of the employement terms and conditions, to which my employees have to agree, says that if they leave my company they cannot work for my customers for at least one year.  If they did I would be in a position to sue them…

D woods

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2006, 02:57:00 pm »
You will also have to get the customer to agree not to employ any of your people for a fixed period as well .

Peter Stevenson

  • Posts: 17
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2006, 03:09:36 pm »
I think you've got the picture now Peter. We have all worked bloody hard to build our businesses. Then you have the cheek to come on here and ask us for advice on how to 'steal' your employers contract.

If you'd have come on here saying you wanted to run a cleaning business and then gone off and won a contract fairly, we would have had far more respect for you. We would even have helped you - well I would anyway.

I hope you lose a fortune. You've already lost your self respect.


CMS, what is your problem? For your information I'm not 'stealing' my employers contract and I'm not sure where this has come from, we as a group of cleaners has decided to start-up our own company and earn our own contracts, I personally haven't forced anyone to leave this workplace and its been a group decision. It seems in regards to your comments you need to grow up and stop judging people who you don't know the full story behind.

clifford

  • Posts: 165
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2006, 03:17:18 pm »
i can understand when somebody is working for a company and thinks this is easy,  i could make alot more doing it myself.

i have respect for anybody that is willing to start there own business because its alot of hard work and it doesnt happen over night,but i can not respect anybody that is willing to steal contracts of an employer!this happend to me but believe me i had the last laugh because he didnt even last 6 months because all the contracts he was trying to get off me the offices were phoning me to let me know!

i let him go told him if he thought it was easy enough then go and try to get your own contracts, he couldnt even get one!

if i was you i would of stuck with earning your £8.50 an hour insted of losing the respct that anybody had for you!!!! :-\


cliff

Peter Stevenson

  • Posts: 17
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2006, 03:27:29 pm »
i can understand when somebody is working for a company and thinks this is easy,  i could make alot more doing it myself.

i have respect for anybody that is willing to start there own business because its alot of hard work and it doesnt happen over night,but i can not respect anybody that is willing to steal contracts of an employer!this happend to me but believe me i had the last laugh because he didnt even last 6 months because all the contracts he was trying to get off me the offices were phoning me to let me know!

This thread is getting well out of context, we know that starting a business is hard work and we are prepared to do this... everybody has to start at the bottom and build themselves up and we know this.

clifford

  • Posts: 165
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2006, 03:30:22 pm »
how are you going to do this then how many of you are going in to business? or is it you on your own and there going to work for you? ???

Peter Stevenson

  • Posts: 17
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2006, 03:39:20 pm »
how are you going to do this then how many of you are going in to business? or is it you on your own and there going to work for you? ???

I don't think I should have to explain myself, but here you go...

We have setup a limited company, all of us have access to our business account. We are a joint team, in relation to one of my first posts on this thread in clearly states that we are only going to several contracts so that all of us have a half decent wage, enough for a annual wage. After that, we are not looking to expand. We will all join in together to build this business and make it work!

clifford

  • Posts: 165
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2006, 03:49:02 pm »
well in one of the earlier posts somebody sugested that you were trying to earn the best for your family.this way i think it would be hard yes u might all be earning a good wage  but then what happens if u loose a contract you all have to wait till you get another till your income goes up again?

M Walker

  • Posts: 60
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2006, 03:58:13 pm »
Hi Peter
 I do wish you success with your venture but I would agree with most off the other posts regarding your previous employer. I myself was working for an employer for many years before I decided to go it on my own in july last year. At first there was suspicion regarding my intentions from my employer however things are getting better in fact we are in a good position. We endeavour to help each other when we can and remain good friends that is far more valuable in the long term than a contract that even if you secure may not last. There is plenty of work around even for new companys however free advice is hard to come by. Your old employer will be an old hand with lots of knowledge you could tap he does not want to make enemies I am glad I have done things this way as I know my old boss respects me and he has and will continue to offer sound and practical advice in all areas its a minefield and a massive learning curve from supervisor to managing director honestly I know
Regards M Walker

Peter Stevenson

  • Posts: 17
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2006, 04:13:30 pm »
well in one of the earlier posts somebody sugested that you were trying to earn the best for your family.this way i think it would be hard yes u might all be earning a good wage  but then what happens if u loose a contract you all have to wait till you get another till your income goes up again?


Well it will most properly happen some where down the line, when it does we will apply for my contracts elsewhere.

M. Walker, thanks for your advice but I currently have no communication with my employer even those I am supervisor, this is one of the things which I am not happy with as I believe there should always be contact between the employer and employees  ::)

Peter Stevenson

  • Posts: 17
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2006, 04:16:47 pm »
and a massive learning curve from supervisor to managing director honestly I know
Regards M Walker

I believe you, although we are prepared to work and get it right. Everyone has to start somewhere...

D woods

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2006, 05:20:14 pm »
Good luck in your new business Peter.

As for stealing contracts every time any of us gets a new
contract we are tacking it of another contractor what is the difference
we live in a competitive society we are not Communists.



M Walker

  • Posts: 60
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2006, 05:56:54 pm »
Absolutley you have already started learning I can see that. This Site will help you through the process Plent of good info here from people with the knowledge
Best of luck
Mark

Peter Stevenson

  • Posts: 17
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2006, 06:00:01 pm »
Absolutley you have already started learning I can see that. This Site will help you through the process Plent of good info here from people with the knowledge
Best of luck
Mark

Thanks again Mark.

Good luck in your new business Peter.

As for stealing contracts every time any of us gets a new
contract we are tacking it of another contractor what is the difference
we live in a competitive society we are not Communists.

I'm confused, who am I stealing a contract from?

CMS

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2006, 06:16:30 pm »
Good luck in your new business Peter.

As for stealing contracts every time any of us gets a new
contract we are tacking it of another contractor what is the difference
we live in a competitive society we are not Communists.





Winning business in fair competition with other Contractors is the way forward.

Winning a contract from your Employer when you are the Cleaning Supervisor is, in my opinion, disgusting.

Just my opinion mind you.....................if you're comfortable doing it then you probably won't mind when it happens to you somewhere down the line.

Peter Stevenson

  • Posts: 17
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2006, 06:29:54 pm »
Winning business in fair competition with other Contractors is the way forward.

Winning a contract from your Employer when you are the Cleaning Supervisor is, in my opinion, disgusting.

Just my opinion mind you.....................if you're comfortable doing it then you probably won't mind when it happens to you somewhere down the line.

CMS, please tell me where you read that were going to steal my employers contract? We haven't even attempted to, we have applied to other companies. Therefore we will be competiting with other contracting companies.

Please make sure you read the facts within this thread throughly before posting unnecessary remarks.

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2006, 06:37:37 pm »
...As for stealing contracts every time any of us gets a new
contract we are tacking it of another contractor what is the difference...

I would just like to say that there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between STILLING and WINNING. 

However, I do not understand why there are so many attacks on Peter Stevenson, he has never suggested that he was going to try to still the contract… ???

D woods

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2006, 06:56:03 pm »
The cleaning business (especially daily office cleaning ) is a cut throat business
so dont be shocked when staff/customers/competitors/suppliers act in
a cut throat way .

I am not saying this is the correct way to behave it is just my experiance
of 26 years in the cleaning business.

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2006, 07:05:55 pm »
The cleaning business (especially daily office cleaning ) is a cut throat business
so dont be shocked when staff/customers/competitors/suppliers act in
a cut throat way .

I am not saying this is the correct way to behave it is just my experiance
of 26 years in the cleaning business.
DOGS EAT DOGS - That is not only about the cleaning business I suppose :(, that is our life isn’t… 

D woods

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2006, 08:04:18 pm »
Yes it is Dog eat Dog .It is no use everyone moaning about it it is just the way
it is . I have to say though there are some competitors of mine who I really
enjoy tacking work off so i dont know what that makes me.

CMS

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2006, 08:10:53 pm »
You've missed the point of what I'm saying entirely.

D Woods................

Taking contracts off your competitors is great. I do it all the time.

But how would you feel if you lost a contract to one of your cleaners?  :o

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2006, 08:12:04 pm »
...I have to say though there are some competitors of mine who I really
enjoy tacking work off so i dont know what that makes me.

It makes you a winner ;)

galaxian

  • Posts: 8
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2006, 08:13:50 pm »
CMS,

This is regarding your hypocritical attitude, after all check your own site where you blatantly try to entice others to ditch their existing employers.  Believe it or not it makes you no better to get new employees and contracts this way than you are painting Peter.  Difference is according to the time you have in the industry you should really know better.



http://www.cmscleaning.com/tupe.htm
excerpt:
Have you built up a good working relationship with your existing cleaners whether or not they are employed by you directly or by another Cleaning Contractor?

Legislation exists to protect these employees if you want to appoint Cleaning and Maintenance Services Limited as your Cleaning Contractor.

The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment)  Regulations 1981 will allow the employee to transfer their employment to Cleaning and Maintenance Services Limited with no loss of benefits and continuation of service.

Not everyone qualifies of course under the existing legislation. However if you want to keep your existing cleaning staff but think that they could benefit from better management we will be sympathetic to your wishes.



After all you have done nothing for their business, maybe you deserve your own contracts and to be dealt with honourably by your own staff but really aren't you just a little hypocritical in your viewpoint and extreme aggression to Peter.  If not stop trying to poach what others have worked hard to develop - their team of cleaners and supervisors.

In any business there is an unspoken law, even if it is in a contract, that it is just not done to take employees with you when you leave a company.  You leave the contracts and employees with the company that employed them.  Saying that there are a number of huge household name companies whose leaders have taken other key players along with them upon resignation. but I suppose its okay because they've become the good and the great.  Or perhaps you should point your hatred and scorn to them.

There is another old maxim that people do business with those they like, its not the whole saying, but hard to imagine you being the caring likeable type. While Peter might have made a mistake in judgment by stating about the possiblity of taking employees, but not the cleaning contract, you have lost all understanding of human nature and have extremely negative feedback.  This of course could have been delivered with tact and would thus ensure that others such as Peter would not even contemplate taking what they haven't worked for. 

Regards to all/

Galaxian



Peter Stevenson

  • Posts: 17
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2006, 08:15:18 pm »
You've missed the point of what I'm saying entirely.

D Woods................

Taking contracts off your competitors is great. I do it all the time.

But how would you feel if you lost a contract to one of your cleaners?  :o

CMS, I'm still waiting a response from you... where did I state that we were going to 'steal' my employers contract???

galaxian

  • Posts: 8
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2006, 08:26:28 pm »
Apologies to Peter. 

I have heard so much from others of you stealing contracts, that my recent response to CMS looks ever so slightly unfavourably on your enterprise.  However, now I'm fully up to date and wish you all a good crack at the whip.  I hope you do agree though that indiscriminate poaching is wrong, even though it is often not enforceable unless as mentioned above precautions are built in by employers to protect their investments. 

regards, galaxian 

CMS

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2006, 08:44:55 pm »
Galaxian

What has TUPE got to do with a cleaner taking a contract from under the nose of his employer? Try and keep on subject eh?

"You leave the contracts and employees with the company that employed them"

If you knew anything at all about TUPE you will know that you can't always do this.

Peter

You didn't actually say you were going to take THAT contract but you 'implied' it in your very first post. I wasn't the only one to 'read between the lines' as it's also been pointed out by other posters (read back). We've all seen it so many times and most of us dislike it intensely.

It would be interesting to know how many of those that defend it have actually had it happen to them. How did you feel?

PS...........Galaxian, I have a life (don't need to get one). ...a very good one actually  :D :D :D

Peter Stevenson

  • Posts: 17
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2006, 08:47:02 pm »
Apologies to Peter. 

I have heard so much from others of you stealing contracts, that my recent response to CMS looks ever so slightly unfavourably on your enterprise.  However, now I'm fully up to date and wish you all a good crack at the whip.  I hope you do agree though that indiscriminate poaching is wrong, even though it is often not enforceable unless as mentioned above precautions are built in by employers to protect their investments. 

regards, galaxian 

Hi Galaxian,

I appreiate your comments, although I am not poaching the staff. I along with 3 other cleaners have decided to try and build our own business via registering a limited company, discussions with business advisors etc..etc... and we are all set-up ready to win that first contract  :)

Peter Stevenson

  • Posts: 17
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2006, 08:59:36 pm »
You didn't actually say you were going to take THAT contract but you 'implied' it in your very first post. I wasn't the only one to 'read between the lines' as it's also been pointed out by other posters (read back). We've all seen it so many times and most of us dislike it intensely.

In that case, I applogise for not being clear.

galaxian

  • Posts: 8
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2006, 09:09:12 pm »
CMS,

as stated on your site:
The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment)  Regulations 1981 will allow the employee to transfer their employment to Cleaning and Maintenance Services Limited with no loss of benefits and continuation of service.

This sounds as if you would become the employer.  As such you are enticing them to leave (or for the potential client to ask them to leave their current employment) and have CMS become both the clients cleaning service and the employees employer.  

Apologies if I am wrong on this aspect but the protection of employment doesnt need to be exercised unless one of two things occur, after all if you simply resign and go work for someone else you hold no rights to continuation of service:

the current employer relinquishes control of the company and the new owner has a duty to ensure continuation of employment and contractual obligations, usually for up to 12 months.  (If you are saving peoples jobs then good on you.)

or

As seems to be the case in your text on your website that another company interferes with a companies employees and entices them to work for them while promising contractual continuation via TUPE.  

I could be wrong on this and will check my facts on this.  If this is the case you have my apologies.

"You leave the contracts and employees with the company that employed them" was aimed at what should happen when someone makes a break into self employment thereby leaving their former employer shy of only the individuals input, nothing else.

galaxian

CMS

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2006, 09:39:47 pm »
Galaxian

Firstly, as I said earlier this is not a thread about TUPE. I would gladly discuss TUPE inside out and back to front with you on the appropriate thread.

This is about the rights and wrongs of an employee taking a Contract in an underhand way from his employer.

Incidentally, I object to you going on about my 'rants' and 'Poor dilusional CMS'.
and comments of this nature. Yes, I made judgemental comments but I think after having twenty five years in the industry I am qualified to do so.

You come on here and make three posts (at the time) before you start 'spouting off'. One of those was a post asking how to start a cleaning company...................lolol  ;D ;D ;D

Before you jump into the unknown, make sure that you know what and who you are talking about.................it helps I find.


galaxian

  • Posts: 8
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2006, 07:24:16 am »
CMS

Removed the offending rants etc.  Apologies.  Any missed let me know as there was no need for them.

This however still changes nothing about the way you show a lack of respect to Peter.  Please allow a little lattitude for the mistakes - or otherwise - of others.  Hoping he'd lose out on all fronts is hardly going to help.

Regarding my own request for info, no probs. take that one on the chin.  I can get majority of the info I need off this forum without posting if necessary. So please don't feel you have to provide any assistance as I see so many forums where well meaning experts tend to offer only criticism of newbies for one reason or another, sometimes vaild sometimes not.  I'm a newbie HERE but believe me I know that those who believe themselves so much better than others seldom offer the best advice as it is often marred by their perceptions of injustices being committed by those who are requesting info and advice.  Right or wrong such advice becomes more a sermon than a measured response.

I'm sure you have helped so many others on this forum and I assume I just jumped in on an awkward thread.  I apologise for beating my drum in response to a thread which had nothing to do with me.  I especially and unreservedly apologise for being offensive at the start, this was  brought about by the manner of your attack on Peter.  Any further modification needed to earlier posts let me know.  This thread offers no promise for me so I'm bowing out.  See you on a different thread.

Best of luck to all on this forum.
Regards, galaxian
 

lynngc

  • Posts: 242
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2006, 09:04:47 am »
good luck in your new business venture.

finding good staff nowadays is like gold dust.

you must have a very good working relationship with your colleges,

with the support from the forum i'm sure you'll keep on the right track.

best wishes

lynn
lynn @ gower cleaning services, swansea.

Fox

  • Posts: 824
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2006, 09:35:29 am »
I have just caught up on this thread - phew!

Peter you say that yourself and three other people are going into business and only want to get enough contracts to earn yourselves a living.  Have you done your home work on how much your turnover needs to be before all four of you can take a decent wage?

The cleaning industry runs on a profit % of approx between 19% and 25% of turnover, so if all four of you wanted say £30,000 per year you would need a turnover of approx half a million minimum - how long do you think it is going to take you to get to this?  Have you got the funds readily available to generate this kind of turnover quicky and have you all got money stashed to pay your bills/mortages while doing it?

You are probably going to come back saying it's none of my business but I am just giving you food for thought.  Like I said running a company is nothing like supervising a contract.

As for all the arguments ref stealing contracts from an employer I must say I have to agree with the opinion of it's immoral and wrong, yes I am aware of your statement saying you are not out to steal the contract, but someone must have come up with the idea of starting a company and talked to the cleaners about it (I'm now assuming it was you) so in effect you are taking staff with you, so your employer will have difficulty running the contract, is this not wrong too?  Or are you going to make sure it's restaffed before you leave? (that is your job until the day you leave afterall).

Oh what a web we weave! - Who would have guessed the inital post would have produced such a response!

Fox

Peter Stevenson

  • Posts: 17
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #59 on: January 08, 2006, 11:35:23 am »
I have just caught up on this thread - phew!

Peter you say that yourself and three other people are going into business and only want to get enough contracts to earn yourselves a living.  Have you done your home work on how much your turnover needs to be before all four of you can take a decent wage?

The cleaning industry runs on a profit % of approx between 19% and 25% of turnover, so if all four of you wanted say £30,000 per year you would need a turnover of approx half a million minimum - how long do you think it is going to take you to get to this?  Have you got the funds readily available to generate this kind of turnover quicky and have you all got money stashed to pay your bills/mortages while doing it?

You are probably going to come back saying it's none of my business but I am just giving you food for thought.  Like I said running a company is nothing like supervising a contract.

As for all the arguments ref stealing contracts from an employer I must say I have to agree with the opinion of it's immoral and wrong, yes I am aware of your statement saying you are not out to steal the contract, but someone must have come up with the idea of starting a company and talked to the cleaners about it (I'm now assuming it was you) so in effect you are taking staff with you, so your employer will have difficulty running the contract, is this not wrong too?  Or are you going to make sure it's restaffed before you leave? (that is your job until the day you leave afterall).

Oh what a web we weave! - Who would have guessed the inital post would have produced such a response!

Fox

Your right Fox, its none of your business.

Fox

  • Posts: 824
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2006, 11:54:48 am »
lol  :P

Info to get you thinking never the less!

Keep us updated.

Fox

D woods

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #61 on: January 08, 2006, 12:55:14 pm »
Hi Fox
Does your company get invloved with all types of cleaning or just Daily Office Cleaning ?

CMS

Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2006, 01:10:21 pm »
Any help would be most appreciated.

Pete.


Hi Fox

You know it never ceases to amaze me how folks come on here thinking they know it all but ask for help nevertheless.

Some of us 'old hands' try to tell them how it really is and they don't seem to be able to take it.

I'm not going to bother from now on...sod 'em! Let them find out the hard way.

Peter,

Of course you can start a cleaning company this way.............you can take your employers contract or his staff with you - it doesn't matter.

What's more, you can start it with NO investment and all make a fabulous living off it.

Now then, is that what you wanted to hear?

Unbelievable some people - absolutely unbelievable!

Fox

  • Posts: 824
Re: Starting up a cleaning company
« Reply #63 on: January 08, 2006, 01:17:29 pm »
Hi D woods

Solely commercial cleaning with daily office cleaning being the main bulk of work, however we carry out other services such as sweeping services, high level cleaning and striping and sealing of floors etc.  You?

Hi CMS

I have only been in the business for about 12 years so it makes me a bit of a spring chicken!  I agree that people seem to ask for help then have problems accepting the truth.

I used to give alot of advice on this board but have not been so involved lately as the same questions come up time and time or you just get abuse for an honest opinion.

People on this board who have been around a while or have taken the time to go through the archives will know which members have working knowledge and with the right attitude could pump them for some invaluble info, newbies are lucky to have a board where they learn from others mistakes rather than make costly ones themselves (of course I haven't made any!  ;) - he he) even if sometimes the advice comes across as harsh or stroppy! 

At the end of the day some people want a 'mrs mop' company where they do the cleaning and are happy at that, no investment but a bucket and brush!  While some people have a different vision, each to their own but I know which one I am!

Fox

 

Peter Stevenson

  • Posts: 17
Re: Starting up a cleaning company New
« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2006, 07:57:04 pm »
CMS, first of all... yes I came on this forum for advice from others to gain some knowledge about running our own contract and it is all advice is much appreciated.

Although if you had read my previous posts properly there would be no argument, I mean all I've had from you is consent abuse...

Peter,

Of course you can start a cleaning company this way.............you can take your employers contract or his staff with you - it doesn't matter.

What's more, you can start it with NO investment and all make a fabulous living off it.

Now then, is that what you wanted to hear?

Unbelievable some people - absolutely unbelievable!

How many times do I have to say this before you jump to your own conclusions..... we are all set-up ready to start our business there is money is place to start-up the business and also extra if we need it, we have gone over this with business advisors... and I am not 'stealing' my employers staff we as a team have decided to start our own contracting company and not one individual.

Please quote me on my previous posts where you believe I've upset you or said something you don't like? I would like to know and get this post cleared up once and for all....