nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« on: December 11, 2019, 12:00:59 am »
I for one think hot water has its place in our line of work.   Without Hot water, ones have mentioned how chemicals can assist in certain cleaning scenarios.

However, im still not understanding how cold and hot water with the same tds can dry with one leaving spots whilst the other doesnt.  Let the debate without petty name calling begin .

What are your views for or against Hot or cold etc
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The Jester of Wibbly

  • Posts: 2089
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2019, 07:07:33 am »
Let's talk about something that's been less discussed in the past.  How about Brexit?
Claim your 50% off your mobile payment card reader with Sum Up.  http://fbuy.me/f7Ve3

Stoots

  • Posts: 6030
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2019, 07:08:23 am »
This one has been done hasn't it.

I've never used hot water all day.

Ive used an immersion over night to stop things freezing.

I have no problems with cold but I can't say hand on heart hot isn't better because I've never tried it.

That being said there's no way a diesel heater makes economical sense.

£15 a week in diesel plus the cost of maintaining and servicing not to mention buying can't be worth it.

It's not something I'm interested in.

I mean electric reels and extreme poles make a difference but they are 600 quid not 6 grand.

Jonny 87

  • Posts: 3483
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2019, 07:23:14 am »
My one and only post on this thread, as I just want to take the conversation away from P@fs heater thread,

From my experience of using warm water, cold water, hot water by every different method out there.......

I find hot water gives me less issues. Of course hot water with the same tds as cold water will dry the exact same, but it’s in the cleaning.

I can now clean extremely quickly with near perfect results. Before, if I cleaned this quick, I would have the odd spot or two.

My reasoning on this is that hot water dissolves the dirt quicker and rinses off the glass quicker, ie it flushes the dirt away faster than cold water, meaning I can also work Faster.

Hot water also has the added benefit of drying quicker. Even In winter the windows I clean are dry by the time I’ve wrote my payment cards up. That means less time for pollutants to stick to the wet droplets in breezy days.

Can cold water get the same results as hot? Of course it can. The benefit of hot for me is the speed that i can clean at, the hoses being much more manageable, the heat radiating through the hose and pole keeping my hands warm, and the selling point. When you tell Customers or even show them the system they are all very impressed. Would that mean they will Gladly accept a few £ increase next year because their window cleaner uses a fancy hot system? You decide.

I had money that I was happy to invest back into the business, and now this heater will last me years and years at the cost of about £5 per day.

Again, this is all my personal Experience, for anyone looking into a heater like the 9kw Grippatank setup that I’ve got.

Ta ta for now.  ;D
Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23596
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2019, 08:12:57 am »
For me it's not either/or. it's "as and when."

When a dishwasher washes dishes the water is heated for cleaning efficiency.
When you wash up by hand you use hot water that you can put your hands in.
When you wash your clothes 40 degrees is the economical cycle bearing in mind you don't want to "boil the colour out" or mis-shape clothes..

Intuitively, with windows it is similar. You don't want it so hot you crack glass, remove paint/putty over time - you want it hotter on first cleans and birds' muck soiled windows. You want it less hot for repeat cleans.

So I believe that Hot water with a variable temperature is a wise choice to have for those that clean a lot of first cleans, soiled gutters and soffits and conny roofs. I believe that even general repeat 8 weekly clean will derive some benefit from it.

For me - I only do first cleans with a new customer. I do a couple of schools which are like first cleans too. So for me I use an immersion heater and when I have these jobs I heat water higher, when on repeats and general working I have it at about 40 degrees in the tank at the start of the day.

I don't use it in the warmth of summer but from October until April it is usually on overnight.
Supple hoses are a bonus.
It's a game of three halves!

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2019, 08:30:22 am »
My one and only post on this thread, as I just want to take the conversation away from P@fs heater

Ta ta for now.  ;D


Hence why I started this thread, to take the "heat" away from further spoiling P&F's thread
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M & C Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 1567
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2019, 08:37:05 am »
There is no doubt im my mind that for some of us it does a better job than cold.
However, I believe that depends on our work.
I work inland away from the coast. The windows I clean never get covered in the kind of grime that needs it and I physically couldnt work faster than I do with cold water without knocking myself out anyway.
Yes I prefer working with it on the coldest days and it keeps my kit working on the few days a year when it stays just below freezing all day. I can also feel the difference on the glass, But quicker? and a better finish? Not for me.
We have a choice! We can do one or the other, the opposite, both, or neither depending on which way the wind is blowing.

dazmond

  • Posts: 23571
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2019, 08:43:39 am »
i agree with jonny...hot water gets the job done to a high standard faster with less problems,not that you cant get the same results with cold water but itll take longer....and of course its nicer to work with,better flow in the colder months,no freezing issues and warm more manageable hose......

....but having water TOO hot(like NWH)has his then its just crazy.......he has even cracked glass in the summer and another pane the other day... ::)roll....
price higher/work harder!

Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2019, 09:07:48 am »
My one and only post on this thread, as I just want to take the conversation away from P@fs heater thread,

From my experience of using warm water, cold water, hot water by every different method out there.......

I find hot water gives me less issues. Of course hot water with the same tds as cold water will dry the exact same, but it’s in the cleaning.

I can now clean extremely quickly with near perfect results. Before, if I cleaned this quick, I would have the odd spot or two.

My reasoning on this is that hot water dissolves the dirt quicker and rinses off the glass quicker, ie it flushes the dirt away faster than cold water, meaning I can also work Faster.

Hot water also has the added benefit of drying quicker. Even In winter the windows I clean are dry by the time I’ve wrote my payment cards up. That means less time for pollutants to stick to the wet droplets in breezy days.

Can cold water get the same results as hot? Of course it can. The benefit of hot for me is the speed that i can clean at, the hoses being much more manageable, the heat radiating through the hose and pole keeping my hands warm, and the selling point. When you tell Customers or even show them the system they are all very impressed. Would that mean they will Gladly accept a few £ increase next year because their window cleaner uses a fancy hot system? You decide.

I had money that I was happy to invest back into the business, and now this heater will last me years and years at the cost of about £5 per day.

Again, this is all my personal Experience, for anyone looking into a heater like the 9kw Grippatank setup that I’ve got.

Ta ta for now.  ;D
I'm not a hot water user at present. But this is the best reply I've read on this subject. I'm doubtful I'd ever be prepared to invest in a diesel one but I don't think anyone can dispute that hot water has advantages.  In my next van and set up I may consider an immersion though.

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8518
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2019, 12:26:00 pm »
My one and only post on this thread, as I just want to take the conversation away from P@fs heater thread,

From my experience of using warm water, cold water, hot water by every different method out there.......

I find hot water gives me less issues. Of course hot water with the same tds as cold water will dry the exact same, but it’s in the cleaning.

I can now clean extremely quickly with near perfect results. Before, if I cleaned this quick, I would have the odd spot or two.

My reasoning on this is that hot water dissolves the dirt quicker and rinses off the glass quicker, ie it flushes the dirt away faster than cold water, meaning I can also work Faster.

Hot water also has the added benefit of drying quicker. Even In winter the windows I clean are dry by the time I’ve wrote my payment cards up. That means less time for pollutants to stick to the wet droplets in breezy days.

Can cold water get the same results as hot? Of course it can. The benefit of hot for me is the speed that i can clean at, the hoses being much more manageable, the heat radiating through the hose and pole keeping my hands warm, and the selling point. When you tell Customers or even show them the system they are all very impressed. Would that mean they will Gladly accept a few £ increase next year because their window cleaner uses a fancy hot system? You decide.

I had money that I was happy to invest back into the business, and now this heater will last me years and years at the cost of about £5 per day.

Again, this is all my personal Experience, for anyone looking into a heater like the 9kw Grippatank setup that I’ve got.

Ta ta for now.  ;D
I'm not a hot water user at present. But this is the best reply I've read on this subject. I'm doubtful I'd ever be prepared to invest in a diesel one but I don't think anyone can dispute that hot water has advantages.  In my next van and set up I may consider an immersion though.
[/quote
He said the exact about Vision and if a PPB machine was cheap enough it would be next to get the same review, anybody can wibbled on about speed when they don't need to prove it.

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2019, 12:57:11 pm »
If and when you use hot water the cost after the purchase is minimal,any extra diesel cost will soon fade into insignificance because of the benefits you’ll get.
The best test is to clean a very dirty roof or plastic-wooden cladding with it then decide,the cleaning of windows side of it is only 1 bonus.

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2019, 12:57:54 pm »
As for work by the sea it’s must imo.

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2488
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2019, 01:31:37 pm »
im very interested in this discussion.

we had a hot water LPG system when we started and it was nothing but hassle. always running low on LPG.. only certain garages sold it. and it just not working at times

we didn't notice any improvement in cleaning with it and we ended up just not using it ever

but anything that will reduce the amount of call backs we get has to be a good thing.. so i am interested to see what people are saying..

 especially the big players with staff...
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2019, 01:45:12 pm »
The thing is it’s so easy with cold water that’s why you’ll get the sceptics all you need is a tank of water a pump-reel and pole away you go,there’s more to getting a hot setup cost etc but you get more benefits.
I found you can get away with cold on a lot of jobs but as I’ve said before check from inside especially this time of the year on a nice bright day around lunchtime.

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8518
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2019, 04:08:54 pm »
I'v been WFP for over 13 years and I can remember hearing this very same rubbish from traditional guys back when I started, if you're getting spotting, dirty runs or anything else left on the glass then you're doing something wrong ,  like Iv said before the only thing its possible for hot to improve on is your speed and believe me if it was possible to prove that it was quicker you would have more than one video on youtube showing it.
With the exception of poor old NWH ( god help him ) this is nothing more than guys  inventing problems so that they can have an excuse to buy the latest gadget, the constant harping on about it being a game changer is just to kid themselves that they haven't been foolish.




Slacky

  • Posts: 7630
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2019, 04:35:14 pm »
the constant harping on about it being a game changer is just to kid themselves that they haven't been foolish.

Which, coincidentally, or perhaps ironically, is exactly what you do.

You're the biggest and most frequent naysayer and whiner on this side of the forum.

Smudger

  • Posts: 13215
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2019, 04:47:18 pm »
I'v been WFP for over 13 years and I can remember hearing this very same rubbish from traditional guys back when I started, if you're getting spotting, dirty runs or anything else left on the glass then you're doing something wrong ,  like Iv said before the only thing its possible for hot to improve on is your speed and believe me if it was possible to prove that it was quicker you would have more than one video on youtube showing it.
With the exception of poor old NWH ( god help him ) this is nothing more than guys  inventing problems so that they can have an excuse to buy the latest gadget, the constant harping on about it being a game changer is just to kid themselves that they haven't been foolish.


not a game changer - a working environment improver, this is where the divide starts......

If,  and a big if we get snow in Jan and the roads have 3 or 4 inches of snow on them will little ole' Nigel still be out cleaning - travelling down dangerous roads of ice - leaving hot wet steaming puddles of water  on customers doorsteps slowly turning into a slip hazard ?

everything has its pro's and cons

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

Smudger

  • Posts: 13215
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2019, 04:48:24 pm »
also.....

I wonder what the customer would prefer in Nigels book,    the odd bit of spotting or shattered glass window ?

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

Splash & dash

  • Posts: 4364
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2019, 05:13:41 pm »
im very interested in this discussion.

we had a hot water LPG system when we started and it was nothing but hassle. always running low on LPG.. only certain garages sold it. and it just not working at times

we didn't notice any improvement in cleaning with it and we ended up just not using it ever

but anything that will reduce the amount of call backs we get has to be a good thing.. so i am interested to see what people are saying..

 especially the big players with staff...




If you are getting call backs with cold you will get call backs with hot that’s down to bad workmanship , but hot will clean quicker especially at this time of year when cold water is only just above freezing , I have 3 vans two are hot and the 3 rd will be later next year , I certainly wouldn’t be spending that amount of money if it didn’t give significantly better and quicker results , we do however do a lot of costal salty stuff , but evan on inland stuff it’s still quicker evan on 4 weekly , I know certain people will poo poo what I have said but I don’t  care it’s a fact and benefits by buisness and we earn more due to using it that we ever did with cold , if you are a decent operation 4:5 k isn’t a lot of money all the ones on hear that say it’s no good are probably driving 10+ year old rust buckets and charging £5 per job , there views arnt of any interest they just spout rubbish with no experience of using hot , that’s my ten pence worth

P @ F

  • Posts: 6312
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2019, 05:57:47 pm »
This one has been done hasn't it.

I've never used hot water all day.

Ive used an immersion over night to stop things freezing.

I have no problems with cold but I can't say hand on heart hot isn't better because I've never tried it.

That being said there's no way a diesel heater makes economical sense.

£15 a week in diesel plus the cost of maintaining and servicing not to mention buying can't be worth it.

It's not something I'm interested in.

I mean electric reels and extreme poles make a difference but they are 600 quid not 6 grand.
You would get far better flow from your new 6mm with hot  (HINT)  ;D
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

P @ F

  • Posts: 6312
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2019, 06:01:23 pm »
My one and only post on this thread, as I just want to take the conversation away from P@fs heater

Ta ta for now.  ;D


Hence why I started this thread, to take the "heat" away from further spoiling P&F's thread

Don’t worry chaps, I was far from throwing dolly , 15 years on this forum has made me hard as nails  ;D
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2019, 09:17:06 pm »
Splash and Dash thanks for talking some sense.

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2488
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2019, 09:26:11 pm »
also.....

I wonder what the customer would prefer in Nigels book,    the odd bit of spotting or shattered glass window ?

Darran

Do you use hot water on all your vans Darren? and if so what are your reasons?

if there's a strong enough business reason i'll make the switch.

thanks

R
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2488
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2019, 09:28:34 pm »
im very interested in this discussion.

we had a hot water LPG system when we started and it was nothing but hassle. always running low on LPG.. only certain garages sold it. and it just not working at times

we didn't notice any improvement in cleaning with it and we ended up just not using it ever

but anything that will reduce the amount of call backs we get has to be a good thing.. so i am interested to see what people are saying..

 especially the big players with staff...

If you are getting call backs with cold you will get call backs with hot that’s down to bad workmanship ,

i take the attitude that you'll always get call backs.. we get maybe 1-4 a month out of 380 ish cleans. not all those are down to quality of clean though

its always getting the balance right to do good enough cleaning, we're not trying to make sure everything is perfect every time

if there is something to do to reduce call backs though, that is a good thing.

if hot water means we can clean the same way, but reduce call backs thats good

iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8518
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2019, 09:47:53 pm »
the constant harping on about it being a game changer is just to kid themselves that they haven't been foolish.

Which, coincidentally, or perhaps ironically, is exactly what you do.

You're the biggest and most frequent naysayer and whiner on this side of the forum.
Dry your eyes Slacky,  I argue and disagree and at times agree with stuff that interests me on here, you lurk and snipe because you have become that bitter and twisted with anybody that's ever disagreed with you on here that you can no longer do anything else, why not go and find a forum that has something of interest to you.

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8518
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2019, 10:15:34 pm »
im very interested in this discussion.

we had a hot water LPG system when we started and it was nothing but hassle. always running low on LPG.. only certain garages sold it. and it just not working at times

we didn't notice any improvement in cleaning with it and we ended up just not using it ever

but anything that will reduce the amount of call backs we get has to be a good thing.. so i am interested to see what people are saying..

 especially the big players with staff...




If you are getting call backs with cold you will get call backs with hot that’s down to bad workmanship , but hot will clean quicker especially at this time of year when cold water is only just above freezing , I have 3 vans two are hot and the 3 rd will be later next year , I certainly wouldn’t be spending that amount of money if it didn’t give significantly better and quicker results , we do however do a lot of costal salty stuff , but evan on inland stuff it’s still quicker evan on 4 weekly , I know certain people will poo poo what I have said but I don’t  care it’s a fact and benefits by buisness and we earn more due to using it that we ever did with cold , if you are a decent operation 4:5 k isn’t a lot of money all the ones on hear that say it’s no good are probably driving 10+ year old rust buckets and charging £5 per job , there views arnt of any interest they just spout rubbish with no experience of using hot , that’s my ten pence worth
You're as deluded about the guys who say it makes no difference as you are about hot, that said I do drive an eleven year old van that Iv had from new, 35k on the clock and looks and drives like new which is the reason I haven't changed it.

Slacky

  • Posts: 7630
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2019, 10:18:50 pm »
the constant harping on about it being a game changer is just to kid themselves that they haven't been foolish.

Which, coincidentally, or perhaps ironically, is exactly what you do.

You're the biggest and most frequent naysayer and whiner on this side of the forum.
Dry your eyes Slacky,  I argue and disagree and at times agree with stuff that interests me on here, you lurk and snipe because you have become that bitter and twisted with anybody that's ever disagreed with you on here that you can no longer do anything else, why not go and find a forum that has something of interest to you.

You've adopted all of Tosh's insults, can't you do anything original?

Smudger

  • Posts: 13215
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2019, 11:42:53 am »
also.....

I wonder what the customer would prefer in Nigels book,    the odd bit of spotting or shattered glass window ?

Darran

Do you use hot water on all your vans Darren? and if so what are your reasons?

if there's a strong enough business reason i'll make the switch.

thanks

R

The vans have Hot water option - immersion ( see various threads for temps etc.. ) I installed these when I was on the tools as I liked the soft more supple hoses the better working conditions - as for speed and quality of clean are/were pretty much the same as cold - really stubborn stuff would lift quicker but overall nothing to justify a grippa/pure freedom/etc system

The guys have the option to use hot but don't - they all hit the rate required and all are happy with cold - personally I'd have hot for comfort but im an old softy

as for call backs - it runs about 1 in 2000 cleans this is usually more that they failed to gain access to the rear and can we come back type of stuff not the quality of the clean itself

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2019, 01:27:52 pm »
I do a weatherboard clean every 2 years and it always ends up with the same amount of algae and grime on it,with cold and detergent it used to take me 3 hours and always did do with hot it takes about an hour and 20 minutes no detergent.
Hot is a brilliant option to just to be able to flick a switch and you’ve got it,some jobs hot is very much needed not for all jobs no but like I say good to have the choice when you may need it.
You can clean a job with hot water clean it all to a fantastic standard then cold clean it for a few months and it would stay cleaner if you wanted,PVC frames with a lot of trim lines etc that go black and green you need hot if you want to clean it quicker than with cold you’ll scrub them forever in a day with cold water.

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2019, 05:06:37 pm »
I do a weatherboard clean every 2 years and it always ends up with the same amount of algae and grime on it,with cold and detergent it used to take me 3 hours and always did do with hot it takes about an hour and 20 minutes no detergent.
Hot is a brilliant option to just to be able to flick a switch and you’ve got it,some jobs hot is very much needed not for all jobs no but like I say good to have the choice when you may need it.
You can clean a job with hot water clean it all to a fantastic standard then cold clean it for a few months and it would stay cleaner if you wanted,PVC frames with a lot of trim lines etc that go black and green you need hot if you want to clean it quicker than with cold you’ll scrub them forever in a day with cold water.

Smudger

  • Posts: 13215
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2019, 05:19:26 pm »
its so good you need to say it twice....



 ;D
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2019, 05:22:49 pm »
I prefer cold this time of the year though lol

dazmond

  • Posts: 23571
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2019, 08:04:10 am »
working with cold water in this frosty weather is horrible.....the hose is like wire..........
price higher/work harder!

robert mitchell

  • Posts: 1985
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2019, 06:08:06 pm »
I do a weatherboard clean every 2 years and it always ends up with the same amount of algae and grime on it,with cold and detergent it used to take me 3 hours and always did do with hot it takes about an hour and 20 minutes no detergent.
Hot is a brilliant option to just to be able to flick a switch and you’ve got it,some jobs hot is very much needed not for all jobs no but like I say good to have the choice when you may need it.
You can clean a job with hot water clean it all to a fantastic standard then cold clean it for a few months and it would stay cleaner if you wanted,PVC frames with a lot of trim lines etc that go black and green you need hot if you want to clean it quicker than with cold you’ll scrub them forever in a day with cold water.

No offence NWH but that sounds like a load of crap to me .............and i use very hot water from an ionics diesel hot water system .

I could of believed maybe 20 mins to half hour but not an hour and 40 mins saved.
www.ishinewindowcleaning.co.uk

The man who never made a mistake never made anything.

deeege

  • Posts: 4957
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2019, 06:19:02 pm »
working with cold water in this frosty weather is horrible.....the hose is like wire..........

Really Daz? It was very mildly frosty until about 10am this morning, it was 7° by midday. Hardly testing conditions. 😂
"....and it's lend me ten pounds, I'll buy you a drink, and mother wake me early in the morning."

dazmond

  • Posts: 23571
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2019, 07:39:15 am »
working with cold water in this frosty weather is horrible.....the hose is like wire..........

Really Daz? It was very mildly frosty until about 10am this morning, it was 7° by midday. Hardly testing conditions. 😂

it was 2c till lunchtime where i was working.....then it only got to 4c by the time i was heading home at 230pm........even at 7c id still rather use hot water any day of the week...... :)
price higher/work harder!

johnwillan

  • Posts: 313
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2019, 09:15:43 am »
We are mainly Hot (Webasto) with one Cold remaining,  the debate is the same, cold doesn't see the point, hot wouldn't go back LOL!

Hot users vary from all year use to winter only - even with the additional outlay, fuel cost, battery maintenance and burner repairs the consensus is they prefer hot

We had a similar debate with old van vs new van

HTH

John


NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2019, 10:05:55 am »
Old brittle old glass and pinned panes cold all the way my water would break more than clean,any stubborn marks on the glass or frames at height you won’t clean off with cold water.
Like I’ve said they all look clean from 1/2 a mile away.

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8518
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2019, 10:41:02 am »
Old brittle old glass and pinned panes cold all the way my water would break more than clean,any stubborn marks on the glass or frames at height you won’t clean off with cold water.
Like I’ve said they all look clean from 1/2 a mile away.

So are you saying the traditional guys where right when they said WFP does an inferior Job ? 

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2019, 02:09:06 pm »
No I’m saying water to hot cracks those type of windows you can only use cold

Dazzler3370

  • Posts: 233
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2019, 08:32:06 pm »
If I didn't have hot water, a wouldn't have been able to clean some of my customers connys today as they were frozen. Thats enough of a reason for me. It keeps me working.

Dazzler  ;D
Dazzler

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8518
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2019, 10:08:26 pm »
If I didn't have hot water, a wouldn't have been able to clean some of my customers connys today as they were frozen. Thats enough of a reason for me. It keeps me working.

Dazzler  ;D
Are you for real, if on the rare occasion when we get a frozen conny you still need to out cleaning them then its not hot water that you need, up your prices and stop wasting money would be my advice.

Jonny 87

  • Posts: 3483
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2019, 10:14:51 pm »
If I didn't have hot water, a wouldn't have been able to clean some of my customers connys today as they were frozen. Thats enough of a reason for me. It keeps me working.

Dazzler  ;D
Are you for real, if on the rare occasion when we get a frozen conny you still need to out cleaning them then its not hot water that you need, up your prices and stop wasting money would be my advice.

5 or 6 days this year already I’ve been cleaning frozen windows in Scotland, melt the ice off, clean, job done.

Your barely a semiretired / part time window cleaner. Not everyone has your luxury. Although you are nearing retirement age which is a downside.

 ;D
Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2019, 12:14:35 am »
He can’t afford hot water so all he does is says is Hot isn’t necessary

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8518
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2019, 04:26:32 am »
If I didn't have hot water, a wouldn't have been able to clean some of my customers connys today as they were frozen. Thats enough of a reason for me. It keeps me working.

Dazzler  ;D
Are you for real, if on the rare occasion when we get a frozen conny you still need to out cleaning them then its not hot water that you need, up your prices and stop wasting money would be my advice.

5 or 6 days this year already I’ve been cleaning frozen windows in Scotland, melt the ice off, clean, job done.

Your barely a semiretired / part time window cleaner. Not everyone has your luxury. Although you are nearing retirement age which is a downside.

 ;D
Well I suppose melting the ice of glass is something you didn't say Vision could do so at last you have found something that doesn't contradict your need to use hot, that said it's still sad that you can't afford to miss a few days when it's water freezing on glass temps.

Stoots

  • Posts: 6030
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2019, 06:40:47 am »
It was the coldest day of the year yesterday for me.

Minius 1 when started on the glass.

But still only had freezing on 1 house porch, the rest of the day no problems.

There's no point getting hot water. It freezes at 0 degrees just the same as cold does so if we are putting water on a house or the floor whether it's hot or cold and it's munus temps. It's going to freeze.


alank

  • Posts: 640
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2019, 06:52:45 am »
To be honest it was freezing temperatures all day yesterday in north Durham I didn't fancy working in it so I had the day off. My water would have been hot enough due to the immersion but why would I want to stay out cleaning in conditions like that when the water would freeze on paving etc.

Jonny 87

  • Posts: 3483
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2019, 07:14:29 am »
It was the coldest day of the year yesterday for me.

Minius 1 when started on the glass.

But still only had freezing on 1 house porch, the rest of the day no problems.

There's no point getting hot water. It freezes at 0 degrees just the same as cold does so if we are putting water on a house or the floor whether it's hot or cold and it's munus temps. It's going to freeze.

The difference with hot water is that it allows you to clean the glass, and the window stays warm enough so that it mostly dries.

It also rinses faster, so your left with a pretty dry window afterward. At most there will be a few droplets that freeze but I haven’t had that unless it’s -2/-3.

Winter has no effect on my business now, unless it’s snowing and driving conditions are dangerous.

It’s my preference that I can take days off when I want to, and not dictated to by the weather.
Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8518
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #48 on: December 19, 2019, 07:53:16 am »
He can’t afford hot water so all he does is says is Hot isn’t necessary
Are you saying that I can't afford to be an idiot?

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8518
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2019, 10:07:17 am »
It was the coldest day of the year yesterday for me.

Minius 1 when started on the glass.

But still only had freezing on 1 house porch, the rest of the day no problems.

There's no point getting hot water. It freezes at 0 degrees just the same as cold does so if we are putting water on a house or the floor whether it's hot or cold and it's munus temps. It's going to freeze.

The difference with hot water is that it allows you to clean the glass, and the window stays warm enough so that it mostly dries.

It also rinses faster, so your left with a pretty dry window afterward. At most there will be a few droplets that freeze but I haven’t had that unless it’s -2/-3.

Winter has no effect on my business now, unless it’s snowing and driving conditions are dangerous.

It’s my preference that I can take days off when I want to, and not dictated to by the weather.

Jonny will let you try and work out why this post is complete nonsense, clue.... there's a reason why even on the hottest of days glass is still cold to the touch.

Jonny 87

  • Posts: 3483
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #50 on: December 19, 2019, 10:12:25 am »
It was the coldest day of the year yesterday for me.

Minius 1 when started on the glass.

But still only had freezing on 1 house porch, the rest of the day no problems.

There's no point getting hot water. It freezes at 0 degrees just the same as cold does so if we are putting water on a house or the floor whether it's hot or cold and it's munus temps. It's going to freeze.

The difference with hot water is that it allows you to clean the glass, and the window stays warm enough so that it mostly dries.

It also rinses faster, so your left with a pretty dry window afterward. At most there will be a few droplets that freeze but I haven’t had that unless it’s -2/-3.

Winter has no effect on my business now, unless it’s snowing and driving conditions are dangerous.

It’s my preference that I can take days off when I want to, and not dictated to by the weather.

Jonny will let you try and work out why this post is complete nonsense, clue.... there's a reason why even on the hottest of days glass is still cold to the touch.

Silly games Sean/Dryclean/richard.

You go by “head knowledge” I go by experience.

My hot water never freezes on the glass, even on conservatories like ice cubes. At most, I’ll
Get a few frozen droplets at the bottom.

Triple glazed Glass is well insulated,
Single pane glass loses heat through the house,
Glass in the shade is much colder,

On all of the above, I clean no matter what the conditions. The hot water raises the temperature of the glass, so that you clean it, and then it’s got time to slowly cool down after you’ve left which stops it instantly freezing.
Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2488
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2019, 11:00:45 am »


Winter has no effect on my business now, unless it’s snowing and driving conditions are dangerous.

It’s my preference that I can take days off when I want to, and not dictated to by the weather.

that's the thing, winter has no effect on my business either.

we only use cold water and we clean whatever the weather. same as you we only stop if we cant get the vans off the drive

we don't mind leaving customers windows with ice on them after a clean. it doesn't happen a lot, and even if it does happen,  it melts again by midday or when the heating kicks in

I;pm just interested in whether it improves the result from cleaning. if it gave us better results I;d make the switch
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2019, 12:11:30 pm »
Last year / this year there was many nights when  ones had been caught short of a freezing cold night and reports on facebook groups, many had frozen hoses, pumps and split/burst filters.
At least with hot, either a purposely built 5k one or an immersion in the tank, you wont get caught short.  Granted, these nights are few n far between but when they do strike and ones are caught short, it can be costly!  Either with hours of work or replacing parts........whilst the rest of us can just crack on as of its a normal day
facebook.com/1NKServices
1NKServices.co.uk

Jonny 87

  • Posts: 3483
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2019, 12:28:51 pm »


Winter has no effect on my business now, unless it’s snowing and driving conditions are dangerous.

It’s my preference that I can take days off when I want to, and not dictated to by the weather.

that's the thing, winter has no effect on my business either.

we only use cold water and we clean whatever the weather. same as you we only stop if we cant get the vans off the drive

we don't mind leaving customers windows with ice on them after a clean. it doesn't happen a lot, and even if it does happen,  it melts again by midday or when the heating kicks in

I;pm just interested in whether it improves the result from cleaning. if it gave us better results I;d make the switch

Where you based richard?

In Scotland there’s days when I physically wouldn’t be able to work with cold. Atleast not until 11am, then only for a few hours again till
The temperature drops.

Frozen jets, frozen hoses if the customer comes out to speak to you etc and the waters not flowing.

Those days aren’t every day, but we do get them.

Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2488
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #54 on: December 19, 2019, 12:33:26 pm »


Winter has no effect on my business now, unless it’s snowing and driving conditions are dangerous.

It’s my preference that I can take days off when I want to, and not dictated to by the weather.

that's the thing, winter has no effect on my business either.

we only use cold water and we clean whatever the weather. same as you we only stop if we cant get the vans off the drive

we don't mind leaving customers windows with ice on them after a clean. it doesn't happen a lot, and even if it does happen,  it melts again by midday or when the heating kicks in

I;pm just interested in whether it improves the result from cleaning. if it gave us better results I;d make the switch

Where you based richard?

In Scotland there’s days when I physically wouldn’t be able to work with cold. Atleast not until 11am, then only for a few hours again till
The temperature drops.

Frozen jets, frozen hoses if the customer comes out to speak to you etc and the waters not flowing.

Those days aren’t every day, but we do get them.

based in Cheshire.. pretty moderate weather here actually so there's maybe the difference.
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2488
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #55 on: December 19, 2019, 12:36:24 pm »
Last year / this year there was many nights when  ones had been caught short of a freezing cold night and reports on facebook groups, many had frozen hoses, pumps and split/burst filters.
At least with hot, either a purposely built 5k one or an immersion in the tank, you wont get caught short.  Granted, these nights are few n far between but when they do strike and ones are caught short, it can be costly!  Either with hours of work or replacing parts........whilst the rest of us can just crack on as of its a normal day

the Frost stat - system that makes me think it'd be a good idea.

especially now we have a couple of vans.. and planning on getting more..

we always have a few days a year when the cold weather catches us out and means we cant work a full day.

iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8518
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2019, 12:39:09 pm »
It was the coldest day of the year yesterday for me.

Minius 1 when started on the glass.

But still only had freezing on 1 house porch, the rest of the day no problems.

There's no point getting hot water. It freezes at 0 degrees just the same as cold does so if we are putting water on a house or the floor whether it's hot or cold and it's munus temps. It's going to freeze.

The difference with hot water is that it allows you to clean the glass, and the window stays warm enough so that it mostly dries.

It also rinses faster, so your left with a pretty dry window afterward. At most there will be a few droplets that freeze but I haven’t had that unless it’s -2/-3.

Winter has no effect on my business now, unless it’s snowing and driving conditions are dangerous.

It’s my preference that I can take days off when I want to, and not dictated to by the weather.

Jonny will let you try and work out why this post is complete nonsense, clue.... there's a reason why even on the hottest of days glass is still cold to the touch.

Silly games Sean/Dryclean/richard.

You go by “head knowledge” I go by experience.

My hot water never freezes on the glass, even on conservatories like ice cubes. At most, I’ll
Get a few frozen droplets at the bottom.

Triple glazed Glass is well insulated,
Single pane glass loses heat through the house,
Glass in the shade is much colder,

On all of the above, I clean no matter what the conditions. The hot water raises the temperature of the glass, so that you clean it, and then it’s got time to slowly cool down after you’ve left which stops it instantly freezing.

Stop with the wibble Jonny , I have 13 years experience in WFP how many have you? your hot water will not raise the temperature of the glass or more importantly is the glass wont store that heat to stop the water freezing and that a scientific fact, you've even explained this with your triple glassed remarks that your don't really understand, so any water left on it will freeze almost as quick as it would with cold.



NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2019, 12:46:07 pm »
It’s like comparing eggs and apples you can’t,I would turn some weatherboard gutter Facia jobs down if I didn’t have hot water it costs money but it makes you fat more than the initial outlay.

Jonny 87

  • Posts: 3483
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2019, 01:39:11 pm »
It was the coldest day of the year yesterday for me.

Minius 1 when started on the glass.

But still only had freezing on 1 house porch, the rest of the day no problems.

There's no point getting hot water. It freezes at 0 degrees just the same as cold does so if we are putting water on a house or the floor whether it's hot or cold and it's munus temps. It's going to freeze.

The difference with hot water is that it allows you to clean the glass, and the window stays warm enough so that it mostly dries.

It also rinses faster, so your left with a pretty dry window afterward. At most there will be a few droplets that freeze but I haven’t had that unless it’s -2/-3.

Winter has no effect on my business now, unless it’s snowing and driving conditions are dangerous.

It’s my preference that I can take days off when I want to, and not dictated to by the weather.

Jonny will let you try and work out why this post is complete nonsense, clue.... there's a reason why even on the hottest of days glass is still cold to the touch.

Silly games Sean/Dryclean/richard.

You go by “head knowledge” I go by experience.

My hot water never freezes on the glass, even on conservatories like ice cubes. At most, I’ll
Get a few frozen droplets at the bottom.

Triple glazed Glass is well insulated,
Single pane glass loses heat through the house,
Glass in the shade is much colder,

On all of the above, I clean no matter what the conditions. The hot water raises the temperature of the glass, so that you clean it, and then it’s got time to slowly cool down after you’ve left which stops it instantly freezing.

Stop with the wibble Jonny , I have 13 years experience in WFP how many have you? your hot water will not raise the temperature of the glass or more importantly is the glass wont store that heat to stop the water freezing and that a scientific fact, you've even explained this with your triple glassed remarks that your don't really understand, so any water left on it will freeze almost as quick as it would with cold.

Again here you just show your lack of experience.
The water rinses off far faster than cold, and your left with a much drier window. That’s fact based on my experience. My first year with cold, I would
Leave frosted windows. Now I don’t at all, even in sub zero.

Don’t worry, you’ll get there one day.  ;D

It’s quite amusing that you’ve tried to play the “how much experience” card.   ???

I’m 32 years old, been wfp for my own business since 2010, and I started window cleaning in 2004 when I left school, joined a company where we used traditional and wfp.

That makes combined years of experience.. ....................  15 years.

Mayb in 2 years time you’ll wise up mate.

 ;D
Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

Dave Willis

Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #59 on: December 19, 2019, 01:58:27 pm »
It’s like comparing eggs and apples you can’t,I would turn some weatherboard gutter Facia jobs down if I didn’t have hot water it costs money but it makes you fat more than the initial outlay.


Hot water makes you fat? I’ve heard it all now!

P @ F

  • Posts: 6312
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #60 on: December 19, 2019, 04:22:49 pm »
It don’t Dave , I’m still built like a Japanese racing snake !
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #61 on: December 19, 2019, 05:05:40 pm »
Hot water won’t raise the temperature of the glass lol I’ve heard it all now lol.

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8518
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #62 on: December 19, 2019, 07:24:30 pm »
It was the coldest day of the year yesterday for me.

Minius 1 when started on the glass.

But still only had freezing on 1 house porch, the rest of the day no problems.

There's no point getting hot water. It freezes at 0 degrees just the same as cold does so if we are putting water on a house or the floor whether it's hot or cold and it's munus temps. It's going to freeze.

The difference with hot water is that it allows you to clean the glass, and the window stays warm enough so that it mostly dries.

It also rinses faster, so your left with a pretty dry window afterward. At most there will be a few droplets that freeze but I haven’t had that unless it’s -2/-3.

Winter has no effect on my business now, unless it’s snowing and driving conditions are dangerous.

It’s my preference that I can take days off when I want to, and not dictated to by the weather.

Jonny will let you try and work out why this post is complete nonsense, clue.... there's a reason why even on the hottest of days glass is still cold to the touch.

Silly games Sean/Dryclean/richard.

You go by “head knowledge” I go by experience.

My hot water never freezes on the glass, even on conservatories like ice cubes. At most, I’ll
Get a few frozen droplets at the bottom.

Triple glazed Glass is well insulated,
Single pane glass loses heat through the house,
Glass in the shade is much colder,

On all of the above, I clean no matter what the conditions. The hot water raises the temperature of the glass, so that you clean it, and then it’s got time to slowly cool down after you’ve left which stops it instantly freezing.

Stop with the wibble Jonny , I have 13 years experience in WFP how many have you? your hot water will not raise the temperature of the glass or more importantly is the glass wont store that heat to stop the water freezing and that a scientific fact, you've even explained this with your triple glassed remarks that your don't really understand, so any water left on it will freeze almost as quick as it would with cold.

Again here you just show your lack of experience.
The water rinses off far faster than cold, and your left with a much drier window. That’s fact based on my experience. My first year with cold, I would
Leave frosted windows. Now I don’t at all, even in sub zero.

Don’t worry, you’ll get there one day.  ;D

It’s quite amusing that you’ve tried to play the “how much experience” card.   ???

I’m 32 years old, been wfp for my own business since 2010, and I started window cleaning in 2004 when I left school, joined a company where we used traditional and wfp.

That makes combined years of experience.. ....................  15 years.

Mayb in 2 years time you’ll wise up mate.

 ;D

You said the except same about Vision as you now say about hot and you haven't even got the sense to know that one contradicts the other, plus it was you who first mentioned experience, I don't think its possible for you to wise up but at least try to keep up and remember what you post.

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8518
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #63 on: December 19, 2019, 08:05:51 pm »
It’s like comparing eggs and apples you can’t,I would turn some weatherboard gutter Facia jobs down if I didn’t have hot water it costs money but it makes you fat more than the initial outlay.


Hot water makes you fat? I’ve heard it all now!

It the fact you cant compare eggs and apples that has me worried.

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #64 on: December 19, 2019, 08:51:57 pm »
Dry clean why do you keep going back and masturbating over peoples old posts,things change opinions change.
They bring something new out and it might be better than the last best thing.

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #65 on: December 19, 2019, 08:55:33 pm »
I remember when you said something in 1999 you can’t go back on it now m8 lol,that’s life.
You sound like you’re favourite drink might be bitter,why don’t you go and give Oliver 5 grand  and wake up lol.

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8518
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #66 on: December 20, 2019, 05:45:17 am »
I remember when you said something in 1999 you can’t go back on it now m8 lol,that’s life.
You sound like you’re favourite drink might be bitter,why don’t you go and give Oliver 5 grand  and wake up lol.

Don't be such a fool NWH, going back on what you said in 1999 means that you were wrong in what you said, so were you wrong when you said to the trad guys that WFP gave as good if not better results than trad ? wibbling on about cold not being up to the job when it has more than proven its worth just makes you sound like somebody trying to justify a foolish spend.

 

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #67 on: December 20, 2019, 09:33:42 am »
I’ve got some baby oil if you need it you can slip some on just before you read some more 10 year old posts if you like.

robert mitchell

  • Posts: 1985
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #68 on: December 20, 2019, 04:08:23 pm »
It’s like comparing eggs and apples you can’t,I would turn some weatherboard gutter Facia jobs down if I didn’t have hot water it costs money but it makes you fat more than the initial outlay.

You must be smoking spice or something , there is  no fascia board job out there that can only be done with hot water.
www.ishinewindowcleaning.co.uk

The man who never made a mistake never made anything.

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #69 on: December 20, 2019, 04:44:24 pm »
You need to do what your m8 Dry clean does and trail back over years of old posts then because that is not what I said if you READ I said cold cleans it dumbo but hot is quicker lol,Xmas had come early for you coz you sound ped lol

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2019, 04:47:36 pm »
This hot debate is ridiculous shall we start another thread do you prefer women or your hand lol,you wait a couple on here will come back with I prefer the hand as it can’t talk back.

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8518
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #71 on: December 20, 2019, 07:07:49 pm »
You need to do what your m8 Dry clean does and trail back over years of old posts then because that is not what I said if you READ I said cold cleans it dumbo but hot is quicker lol,Xmas had come early for you coz you sound ped lol
Now you cant even remember what you said a few posts back, I'm starting to think you are on a windup as nobody could be that stupid.

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #72 on: December 20, 2019, 07:16:41 pm »
Always in the past again that’s why your a cold water user

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23596
Re: Hot or cold, let the battle commence lol
« Reply #73 on: December 20, 2019, 11:57:17 pm »
Well my dear handbag swingers I believe this thread has run its course. Let's lock this one shall we?  ::)roll



It's a game of three halves!