A day out with the Phoenix tm...

« **on:** May 14, 2009, 07:52:31 pm »

Yesterday the clutch went on my van, the garage loaned me a van and i was given the opportunity to have the new pheonix lifted into it for the day.

What a machine, the suck is amazing, some time ago the little rod that is inside the lips of my wand to keep them apart broke and was lost to my waste tank, well it had never been a problem in the past with my spitfire or any other machine, until today that is. I couldn't understand why i was getting a wet line down the middle of my strokes, when i looked the machine was pulling so hard it was collapsing my wand and i use a glide so there is airflow there.

Spent the rest of the day running at 1/2 throttle to stop my wand lips from closing and still had more suck than my 4.0 and loads of heat quick!

it is also a very light machine too and the swb boxer 1.9 that i borrowed didn't feel like it had anything in the back. installation took about 10 mins forked it in and connected the battery, strapped it down with ratchet straps(obviously would normally be bolted) and off i went.

definately a machine worth looking at!

Cheers Goron

« **Reply #1 on:** May 14, 2009, 07:56:18 pm »

well I'm sold!! I'll have 3

any pictures?

« **Reply #2 on:** May 14, 2009, 08:25:22 pm »

Who sells it.

« **Reply #3 on:** May 14, 2009, 08:34:46 pm »

A stab in the dark here is this anything to do with Solutions,Goron i think you done something similar like this before remember when when Nick gave you a loan of a Scorpion to clean a pub you even posted some pics then.

« **Reply #4 on:** May 14, 2009, 08:34:57 pm »

Hydra Master but not on there web site

Len

« **Reply #5 on:** May 14, 2009, 08:39:52 pm »

So Goron are you going to say who makes this machine, I think most of us can guess, but a few more details would be useful.

Presumably it has a bigger engine/blower than your Spitfire ?

Cheers

Doug

« **Reply #6 on:** May 14, 2009, 09:53:31 pm »

Can't say who makes it, you'll just have to wait for the proper launch of the machine as i don't think anything is finalised, this is the prototype.

Doug actually my spitfire has a 22 hp engine with a roots 45 blower. The Phoenix has a 18 hp engine and a roots 36 blower. Think it is all down to the way it has been plumbed.

Cheers Goron

« **Reply #7 on:** May 14, 2009, 09:58:04 pm »

Sounds like the Dave Ingram machine that was on display at the day out.

I love the Irony in calling it the Pheonix.

« **Reply #8 on:** May 14, 2009, 10:00:09 pm »

Mike

yes and yes

« **Reply #9 on:** May 14, 2009, 10:03:34 pm »

When I last saw it Goron At the CCDOit had a 18 horse Briggs engine and a 36 Tuthill tri lobe blower.
From what I understand Lazer Master a subsidiary of Hydramaster are biulding these machines

« **Reply #10 on:** May 14, 2009, 10:09:01 pm »

You may be right dave probably is the tuthill they look the same to me big black thing at the back

Wicked machine though well impressed really enjoyed using it

Cheers Goron

« **Reply #11 on:** May 14, 2009, 10:11:51 pm »

I take it you'll be the first to buy one them?

« **Reply #12 on:** May 14, 2009, 10:15:34 pm »

Early success will be its price, nothing to compare it to but if you want tried and trusted then you go for a HM or Alltec but the new kid on the block will have to start at the bottom with the Woodbridge prices as there's no history IMO.

A panther 18hp is £8200.00 so I would image that it would be pitched around there.

Shaun

« **Reply #13 on:** May 14, 2009, 10:18:50 pm »

Hi Guys

Mike , I thought that too.

Isn't a Hydra a multiheaded organism ?

Cheers

Doug

« **Reply #14 on:** May 14, 2009, 10:21:30 pm »

You could be right Shaun, only difference the Panther 18 has been out there for the past 3 years with no down times. This new machine is not built the same so it will have to have a good run to see where its weak points are!

« **Reply #15 on:** May 14, 2009, 10:28:31 pm »

Doug is that like the mother in law?

Shaun

« **Reply #16 on:** May 14, 2009, 10:34:56 pm »

No Shaun-it's a myth. Greek, naturally!

« **Reply #17 on:** May 14, 2009, 10:36:06 pm »

Mind you I did hear about the mother-in-law.

You can always tell when they are on the way round-the mice throw themselves onto the traps.

« **Reply #18 on:** May 14, 2009, 10:40:42 pm »

Shaun,
Enjoy your freedom while you have it, don't waist your time on here you have a T.V control all to yourself.

The time is running out she'll be home soon with a credit card bill the size of the national debt!

« **Reply #19 on:** May 15, 2009, 08:59:26 am »

Credit crunch now solved by my wife!

Shaun

« **Reply #20 on:** May 15, 2009, 03:27:10 pm »

Goron when is the launch of the phoenix and any price yet

« **Reply #21 on:** May 15, 2009, 04:20:13 pm »

I can't wait to see it and have a go, sounds well designed and easy care.

Shaun

« **Reply #22 on:** May 15, 2009, 05:28:35 pm »

This thread sounds like a plug.

Anyways, Dave is this your machine as its dosent sound like you still are involved with it from your post?

Im down in Hydra solutions master for the rug course so would be interestd to see it in action.

MArk

« **Reply #23 on:** May 15, 2009, 08:20:52 pm »

It does seem like a plug that's gone wrong, a 'marketing don't do' is let it leak out when you want a big bang! Joe Polish would be having a baby by now.

Shaun

« **Reply #24 on:** May 16, 2009, 02:26:43 pm »

Clearly you are impressed with the suck Goron.
But you can make all blowers pull harder by adjusting the releif valve. Not a great idea to let the blower work too hard in the long term. I guess it was adjusted that way to really give the system a very good test under very tough conditions. In normal conditions I guess the makers will be recomending a similar level of vac releif to comparable machines.

Will this be the first UK built TM. Look forward to seeing it.

« **Reply #25 on:** May 16, 2009, 07:46:27 pm »

Nevil no i don't think it is a case of over stretching the blower but more like better design and plumbing like the kunkle valve for a start and other things but not my place to mention.

Just to get things straight, this is not intended to be a plug but i have been privileged enough to use a brand new machine, the first of its kind that has never been used in a real world scenario before and i loved it, so i am just sharing my experiences of the new machine with you all. surely anybody would do the same.

If i had the spare cash flow i would buy one but am in the process of taking on a second van (as of monday) and that is my priority at the moment.

Cheers Goron

« **Reply #26 on:** May 16, 2009, 08:57:09 pm »

Goron

First of its kind is it nick spouting or you

Think I will wait a year or so, only got seduced once!

Knuckle valve been band about for years,

have yet to see one on any TM’ers I have met.

:

Len

« **Reply #27 on:** May 17, 2009, 09:55:05 am »

Sometimes, Goron, forums in general really pi$$ me off.

One of their raison d'etre is to share information, inform and educate. When we do this, we are often criticised for being biased or even have interests in the product we are informing about. We're damned if we do these things, but also damned if we dont. I know, I too have been there.

For the record, the concept for this machine is a little different to the norm. It's an entry level machine that can be installed in most vans in minutes as long as you have a fork lift. Slide it in, secure it, fill it with fuel and away you go. It's footprint and weight are perhaps the lowest in the industry this side of a demountable, tankless T/M. So what's wrong with sharing this sort of information with fellow "professionals" As we all know, a CIU member has had some input with this new machine, but for some reason, thank heavens, he hasn't been locked in the stocks like Goron. Thanks to Goron, we now know that this new machine is showing enough performance potential to be a serious consideration as an entry level T/M. It's footprint is smaller than my electric van mounted set up, so it looks like being one of the few ideal machines for the small van user.

Perhaps the pessimists would prefer to be educated about products from everwhere on the planet except for Cornwall?

Safe and happy cleaning

The Ken

« **Reply #28 on:** May 17, 2009, 10:15:59 am »

the thing is Gorons first post does read like a sales pitch, just like a lot of members have mentioned.

whether this is intentional is debatable. but if we wanted we could look at your post and say the same,

look at your middle paragraph starting ...for the record...

you start your post with a condemnation of people who criticise others for sharing information then launch into what would make a great sales pitch for the Phoenix. was your post an intentional sales pitch or just like you say, you are just passing on information about something that would be of interest to other carpet cleaners.

perhaps we should just take everything on face value and for get any conspiracy that might exist.

s

« **Reply #29 on:** May 17, 2009, 10:44:50 am »

Well i didn't think it was a written like a sales pitch, thought it was more like a diary entry personally.

Anyway i am in a very lucky position in the country where i am close to 2 large suppliers/manufacturers and i have a good relationship with them both. So when i am in trouble one or the other will help me out if they can. This time i got to use the Phoenix and was impressed so just did what the forums are for and passed my experience on especially as it was the first time the machine was actually used for real.

Perhaps it comes down to the celts and saxons thing.

Goron

« **Reply #30 on:** May 17, 2009, 11:18:31 am »

I have heard that the valve you mentioned improves vac performance. I beleive there is another brand of valve that does a similar job. By only opening once the pre set vac level has been reached as oposed to the standard type that starts opening and bleeding some air into the waste tank well before the set point is reached.

I seem to recall a thread about these valves on Truckmounters. Many folks were singing there praises because of the improved vac performance. However I seem to recall someone saying that fitting one to some machines will invalidate the manufacturers warranty in some cases. I may well be wrong on this and stand to be corrected.

Either way I would say it's pretty undenyable that if you are producing vastly greater vacuum from broadly similar componants then something in the system is working harder.

Not that it should make any differance to the pheonix as I am guessing the designers/developers will have looked long and hard at the implications of having one of these fitted.

On another note, I personally feel no need to slag off any suppliers. I try to look through all the sales talk and just judge the products on there merit. Nick and Solution come in for more than their fair of stick on here but I can tell you that I just bought an upholstery tool from him ( Nick himself put himself out to make sure I got it ).

The tool itself is fantastic. I cleaned a suite on Friday and the first sofa was dry before I left. I thought that type of performance was only available at CFR or Drimaster prices. It wasn't one of those jobs that only needed light extraction. it was caked in grease throughout the usual areas meaning I had to go over it several times.

What I am saying is you don't need to make buying your supplies too personal. If the products are good, does anything else matter.

edited to yet more long winded & dull waffle

« **Reply #31 on:** May 17, 2009, 12:07:13 pm »

I would personally prefer to hear first hand from a fellow cleaner about the pros and cons of any product, rather than believe a sales pitch from a supplier - and for me, that is the major benefit of these forums.

I know there are a number of people that are disgruntled with a certain Cornwall supplier and that is their prerogative, however I think it is a relatively small number as a percentage of the cleaners on these forums.

I think the rest of us need to make up our own minds without being swayed by people with an axe to grind - and before you ask, the only thing I have ever bought from the said company was 5 litres of MPower.

Steve

« **Reply #32 on:** May 17, 2009, 08:10:05 pm »

Come on Ken we all know where allegiances lies. Look at any politician; proof is in the pudding, get down the machine to me by Tuesday (I have a F/T Licence) am not joking.

Len

« **Reply #33 on:** May 17, 2009, 08:58:13 pm »

So Len (and others)

You are implying that anyone who has received good service and has a good working relationship with a supplier or two is giving a prejudiced report on a product. Yes, we all have allegiencies but are still capable of telling it as we find it.

If the administrator of Clean It Up feels that Goron's post was a prejudiced sales pitch and broke forum rules, I trust the offending post will be removed. It has happened before.

Next thing you know, Doug will be in the pocket of Prochem for praising their Pure Clean, Robert Stubbs and Clinton with Alltec for praisng their Advance X3, me with Prochem, Solution/Cross American, Hydramaster, Dry Fusion, Alltec, Chemspec, Sebo, Envirodri, Amtech, CFR, Victor..........

If some of us have a disliking for any supplier, for whatever reasons, it is not professional nor forum ettiquette to lambaste someone for having favourable reports about products or services from that supplier that some dislike.

There is a saying that you will all have heard before and which I and many others try to abide by. If you can't say nothing good about someone, then say nothing at all. Having said that, I did have a dig at the NCCA earlier today.

Safe and happy cleaning

The Ken

« **Reply #34 on:** May 17, 2009, 09:52:37 pm »

We all type what we are thinking lets not forget what a forum is for!!!!! but also we should have the decency to know when to keep your trigger finger back in the holster just out of common courtesy.

Shaun

« **Reply #35 on:** May 17, 2009, 09:57:07 pm »

Never a truer word spoken Shaun

And what with the awful news we have received today, perhaps in future we should all think twice before we press the post button.

Steve

« **Reply #36 on:** May 18, 2009, 05:38:22 pm »

what a ridiculous set of replies to this subject, if a new product comes onto the market, i want to know from a fellow professional what their opinion of it is, it is only THEIR opinion and over the period of a few months others would give their opinion and others can make a judgement whether to buy it or not - i can't for the life of me see that goron was pushing this unit, just describing his view of it,

colin

« **Reply #37 on:** May 18, 2009, 06:22:27 pm »

Well said Colin

« **Reply #38 on:** May 20, 2009, 03:50:24 pm »

Steve and shaun

Too right and seems to be easy for some to spout there mouths off on here without thinking and even more sat hiding behind a screen as they would think twice before saying it face to face!!!

It all comes down to if you dont wana read the posts then dont!!

Litle big ...... men!!!

« **Reply #39 on:** May 20, 2009, 05:34:00 pm »

Quote from: clinton neylan on May 20, 2009, 03:50:24 pm

It all comes down to if you dont wana read the posts then dont!!

how does that work then?

you don't know until you've read the post that its some thing you didn't actually want to read

I was just going to let this post lie as it was getting boring, but As Clinton has brought it back up I just put another side of the coin.

some member have insinuated that this post reads like a sales plug which to be truthful so what if it does, who does it really harm.

You might think no one get hurt, but what about people like Matt who owns Cleansmart, he is building his business using good old fashioned business practices (like offering an excellent service & value for money) he never post on these forums and has no mates willing to push his products, is it fair on him that his machine get criticised for being too heavy by friends of his competitors.

the same could be said for Restormate they are building a great company by like Cleansmart offering good service, they don't use mates to push products on these forums.

I actually like Nick but if I see a plug for his products, which over the years I have seen many times, from the early days of M/S through Allergystop and then into the scorpion & Mpower I will always say something.

I don't want to get all moral about it but I think its not fair on the companies who don't have people singing their praises.

so thats why I always comment

« **Reply #40 on:** May 20, 2009, 05:38:32 pm »

I actually meant that if you dont like any posts on here just dont come back winging of the content of them..

« **Reply #41 on:** May 20, 2009, 05:51:42 pm »

Goran have you still got the use of the phoenix

Could not see it on the web site as yet..

« **Reply #42 on:** May 20, 2009, 06:09:47 pm »

Well Mike H.
You have had a go at me more then once for singing the praises of the Scorpion (which IS a mighty fine machine), but not whan I praise Cleansmart or Restormate - which I do.
This leads me to think you are anti Solutions.
Praise where its due thats what I say, and the 3 companies mentioned here have all given me good service.

« **Reply #43 on:** May 20, 2009, 06:29:29 pm »

Joe, i've just searched every post you've made with any reference to cleansmart....1 page

I also searched just one word ( guess which word) :

to do with Solutions..... 3 pages

don't try telling you give equal praise to all companies. I could search further but it will start making you look daft.

« **Reply #44 on:** May 20, 2009, 06:39:24 pm »

This machine has the same spec as the Steambrite Scout available at $7900 including hoses and wand.

Now that looks like good value unless anyone knows otherwise .

« **Reply #45 on:** May 20, 2009, 06:50:26 pm »

Mike, I never mentioned "equal praise".
But what your "research" has shown is that I spoke truthfully - I give praise where its due.

« **Reply #46 on:** May 20, 2009, 06:51:23 pm »

That looks like John Kelly's machine.

Shaun

« **Reply #47 on:** May 20, 2009, 06:54:49 pm »

Your looking at the wrong one Shaun.................J K 's is known as the Prowler in the US and made by Amtex not Steambrite.

look for 18hp and 330blower @$7900

« **Reply #48 on:** May 20, 2009, 06:59:28 pm »

Hi Clinton,

Only had for one day when my van was in the garage, Wish i still had it, spitfire felt rubbish the next day!

Cheers Goron

Ps. Mike you once said that people should challenge you when they think you are talking rubbish, well i am challenging you, Both companies you have mentioned have their friends that will come on and mention their products. Like joe said credit where credit is due!

« **Reply #49 on:** May 20, 2009, 07:00:15 pm »

No no he has a new machine, corr Robert you are behind the times

Shaun

« **Reply #50 on:** May 20, 2009, 07:05:06 pm »

OK ................

I was'nt aware of that !

Had a look J K's is a more powerful Kohler 20hp

not the same

« **Reply #51 on:** May 20, 2009, 07:12:29 pm »

Mike,
I agree with what you have stated. The thing is, some people on this & other forums wont have a bad word said against Nick/Solutions. If only some people opened there eyes to see the bigger picture.

Richie.

« **Reply #52 on:** May 20, 2009, 07:12:44 pm »

Are you talking about this one Shaun?

http://www.restormate.co.uk/epages/15094.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/15094/Products/TM003

« **Reply #53 on:** May 20, 2009, 07:13:17 pm »

Goron, Joe mentioned a word that is the very crux of my argument 'equality'

like you said....Both companies you have mentioned have their friends that will come on and mention their products

just a couple more searches;

people who have praised or mentioned solutions ...55 pages

people who have praised or mentioned cleansmart ...8 pages

and this is just there names, is we put their products into the equation then it will be an even greater difference.

is this 'equality'?

this is my last post on this as we won't agree but please remember we are discussing the subject not arguing it.

« **Reply #54 on:** May 20, 2009, 07:19:53 pm »

Statistics don't lie but 2 things you could consider

1. Suppliers gets their customers to champion their product
2. Some people will shout about things form the roof tops

Shaun

« **Reply #55 on:** May 20, 2009, 07:32:22 pm »

but I have not mentioned "equality"

so that twice you said I mentioned a word when I have not.

In my posts, and you can waste your time doing searches if you want to, I have also mentioned I use cleaning fluids or goods from Chemspec, Craftex, Hydramaster, Prochem, Amtech, Altec, Cimex, Express Cleaning Supplies and no doubt others that I cant even be bothered to remember - which shows that I must be a "mate" of all of them.

« **Reply #56 on:** May 20, 2009, 07:40:20 pm »

Mike I don't really understand your post. I use John Kelly at Restormate for my chemicals - a company I didn't know existed when I started in this business early last year.

Why do I use him? Because off the glowing references he has received on this very forum. Surely that's what this place is all about.

Fraser

« **Reply #57 on:** May 20, 2009, 07:59:52 pm »

exactly fraser,

because of the glowing refrences J kelly has recieved,

I have yet to read a post that has any thing detrimental said against john and Lynn,

on the other hand :

I dont know how long exacly you have been frequening these forums Fraser, but a fair number did feel a little agrieved with a certain person.

geoff

« **Reply #58 on:** May 20, 2009, 08:28:07 pm »

Your right Geoff.
I too only hear good things about John and Lynn - and I would agree because I too use them and find that to be so.

If the reference to a "fair number feel aggrieved with a certain person" is Nick then why not say it.
Assuming it is Nick, I agree with you that a "fair number feel aggrieved" with him, but on the other hand a fair number are happy with the service they get.
So what is wrong to express facts about the service received from any supplier - as long as it is factual.
and any comments surely hold more weight if the person expressing them has first hand experience of the service.
Ive heard the grumbles about Nick, Ive taken them on board BUT I do like to form my own opinions on matters based on MY experiences - thats why I can say I have had good service from Cleansmart, Restormate and Solutions. (the 3 businesses are listed in alphabetical order so I cannot be accused of any preference).

« **Reply #59 on:** May 20, 2009, 10:00:03 pm »

The word solution is banded about we know what that is! What about cleaning agent that’s what it is! Then put a brand name to it.

A friend and I were on our way to a commercial job today he ask me if he could borrow a tool for Friday sorry need it! He got on his blackberry searched the web came up with a couple and decided, the Plonker forgot his card, so I offered mine, did not ask who he was buying from nor or would I put any names forwards. Got a new tool yesterday and some chem.’s give it a month or so I may sing from the rooftops.

Goron

Like you ant got any association! But like you put down the gauntlet (challenge) machine did not arrive, new is good very tight old bit like wife are you going to tell your customer your machine ant no good

Ken

With the up most respect I call it as I see! It not happy with the banking/political fertility!

Shaun

Not that impressed with champion

Len

« **Reply #60 on:** May 20, 2009, 10:19:38 pm »

blimey Len, reading your posts is like the Krypton factor. Has your keyboard not got punctuation keys?

« **Reply #61 on:** May 20, 2009, 10:34:24 pm »

This post is in danger of causing splits in an otherwise close community, we say things which are not meant to be taken literally and we mention names because we either like or dislike a product or how a business is run ( in our opinion ) mostly because we want to pass on our experiences to others.

What we forget is that we all have our own opinions and they will often be at odds with someone or possibly everyone else. Such is life.

I've been at the end of a fair number of such exchanges myself and in nearly every case, I knew that if I was in the physical company of the person concerned rather than trying to type the right thing I would almost certainly have come across differently as few of us type like we talk.

It's human nature to continually mention something you either believe in or have either good or bad experiences of, I know it's an endorsement in most cases whether deliberately or otherwise.

Which is worse....................
Praising good products / services or individuals

Slagging poor products / services or individuals

« **Reply #62 on:** May 20, 2009, 11:43:21 pm »

Did anyone watch desparate housewives tonight?
Looking forward to next weeks.

clive