[clarkson]

 
 hi
 anyone use an airflex? what do you all think about it.

 (could we try and keep comments to info relating to airflex this time)

 cheers

 john


 ps I know i can get a beat up dog of a truckmount on ebay for the same money but iam not going to.

[Carpet Dawg]

Great machine. Looks great, very powerful, easy to maintain and good customer service from CleanSmart.

I've had one for almost 2 years now.

Tony

[jim mca]

Ive got a airflex mini and I love it to bits it really is a porty will go
anywhere you want it to go and do a good job I used the triple
at cleansmart and would love one

[Adam P]

i use airflex turbo and like it. there is some downsides to it though which I feel could easily be avoided which is a shame as they are minor issues that let it down.

first downside is the cables are right underneath where you empty the water, which means you can't comfortably put a bucket under the hole and have to petty much hold the bucket with one hand which can get heavy and then close with the other hand.

here's an image so you can see what i mean. http://arenacleaningservices.com/images/airflex%2003.jpg

second is the cables are at the back right in the way if you lie the machine down in the van. there is simply no way to avoid the cables getting in the way. i currently wrap them around the lid put where the waste ose connects to the machine but this isn't ideal and still has issues when loading into the van like in the following picture.

http://www.cleansmartsupplies.co.uk/acatalog/AirflexEasyLoad.jpg

as the empty hole (sorry not sure on it's exact name) is also on the back and sticks out a bit (even wihout the extra piece on it) when loading into the van this also gets in the way and catches stuff so the machine needs to literally be lifted horizontally and then slid into the van.

the heater hooks neatly onto the rear but i don't understand why that's a selling point as it can't be used there. would have been nice to be able to connect it up whilst it's hooked on the back.

finally the waste compartment isn't leaning enough towards the hole to empty the machine so you end up with wells of dirty water. this is such a minor issue but i like to clean the machine out as best possible each after use and it takes time to try to wash the rubbish out of the wells . i don't understand why they wouldn't make it lean ever so slightly towards the back so everything nicely rushes out.

they are a good machine don't get me wrong as mentioned the issues as minor, however as they are minor it's a shame they aren't sorted out

[Carpet Dawg]

Mr Bunny, You should try a long life bucket. http://www.restormate.co.uk/epages/15094.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/15094/Products/1451/SubProducts/1451

That sorts out your cable problem.

The waste valve (empty hole  ) sticks out on pretty much on every machine. Its a unverisal part.

[Simon@arenaclean]

Used a turbo for nearly 2 years very happy. I load by tilting and getting front wheels on van then lift and roll in, I also have a ramp but seldom use it. To load on it's back wrap the cable around the waste gate valve and around the handle. Remove gate valve bend, then it will roll in. Rinse the waste tank with either water from the solution tank or drop the solution feed hose into a bucket and flush using the primer hose. Alternate is ask Matt for the 'tank flusher' Basically it's a male qc linked to wand jet fitting. Fit that to your solution hose and use as a 'pressure washer' The reason the tank is flat and has the traps is so sediment and grit don't get into the gate valve as you empty whilst in operation, stopping the gate valve closing tight and leaking. 

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

I've owned the Airflex for a year now and it's a massive step up from the Ninja.

Bigger fresh water tank and waste tank, never have to take it upstairs and have run 100 feet of hose from it comfortably. The third vac leaves the carpet considerably drier than a twin vac.

I have to load mine into my van on it's back due to the raised floor on my van. I wrap the leads around the handle, remove the gate valve bend, put the handle wheels onto the van floor, lift the machine up slightly above horizontal and slide the machine in. It doesn't foul anything on the way in.

As far as emptying is concerned, I always have a towel on the floor under the gate valve anyway. It really isn't an issue emptying into a bucket - as for the bucket getting heavy, I think you need more shredded wheat for breakfast 

I tilt the machine back to get the last dregs out of the waste tank after I have rinsed it out, again this isn't a problem.

I haven't used a Scorpion or an Alltec triple vac so I can't compare - but the Airlex works just fine for me and is backed up with good customer service.

[clarkson]

 hi
 that s big thumbs up on the airflex then. i dont think i have ever seen a more positive reply.

 some mention the turbo?is this the top model.

 also i am reading that the heater is a seperate unit that does sound a bit noddy for a machine at this  level.
 my old power plus has built in heater.

 cheers
 john

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

John

The turbo is the triple vac version.

I have the magma heater and I also had a inbuilt heater in the Ninja.

The idea with the inline heater (magma) is that you can have the heat nearer to the wand, plus you can use cold or warm water in the tank. It works well but I don't use it very often.

[clarkson]

 hi
 thanks again all. iam now worried about making a mistake as there is now the airflex turbo in the mix.

 i suppose at this level around 3000 either way they all do a good job.

 as you say steve scorpion,ninja,jag,airflex they blow they suck.

 they can all clean carpets, and do it very well.

 cheers

 john

[John Milnes]

I will also confirm you wont go wrong with the machine.

It did have a few setbacks in the early stages; these were development problems with the tank cracking and also the vac chamber lid cracking. This was due to the plastic sections not being strong enough to afford the vacuum pressure.
The result of the tank cracking was that additional air entered the tank causing turbulence and resulted in moisture entering the vac motors.

This has long been rectified by Cleansmart and the modified parts on my machine have been supplied FOC.

The result is a very good machine, that in my oppinion cannot be bettered

[jim mca]

Carpet guy when did you get the mods done to your machine

[john steel]

 Can somebody do a test against the Jag and airflex, as I dont know if 3 vacs are better or 2 vacs.
The scorpion guys banged on about 3  vacs for ages but they are now going for  the jag 2 vac machine.
Dont know about you guys but im confussed and in a few months I need to buy a new machine.

[Adam P]

carpet dawg: those are the buckets i have. doesn't  solve the problem as the cables are right in the way. if they were to the side at least you wouldn't get drips going onto them.

i appreciate what you're saying about the waste valve always sticking out but afaik this is one of the only machines which lies on it's back so the great added feature which i couldn't work without is let down as the waste valve gets in the way and catches the van, not too much but enough that it could be improved on.

as for the buckets getting heavy, i don't always work alone, often i've got one of my lovely little ladies helping me out

[John Milnes]

''Carpet guy when did you get the mods done to your machine''

The lid cracked last year and I was sent a new one.
I'm not sure when the tank cracked but it was replaced recently.
If the tank has cracked it will be apparent that moisture will collect on the lid and on the air intake tube. The crack on the tank is behind the switch controll panel so it wont be evident unless you remove the panel.

[jim mca]

cheers

[Colin Day]

Can somebody do a test against the Jag and airflex, as I dont know if 3 vacs are better or 2 vacs.
The scorpion guys banged on about 3  vacs for ages but they are now going for  the jag 2 vac machine.
Dont know about you guys but im confussed and in a few months I need to buy a new machine.

I'm hoping to do a test at the end of this month, my Alltec Triple Vac against the Jaguar.

I must admit I thought that moving from 3 motors down to 2 motors seemed like a step back, but already some of the guys who have previously owned the Scorpion, are saying that the Jaguar out-performs it.

When you start the Jaguar up it's so quiet that you immediately think "That doesn't sound that powerful!" but believe me, it is!

[AJB]

It feels more powerful because after years of saying
lift is not needed, CFM's do the work, The Jaguar
has lower CFM's and higher lift.

[Ian Rochester]

Positive things about the Airflex, we have a Prowler at the moment but are looking to move back to have a powerful porty as our main machine again, purely because the majority of our jobs are not suitable for a TM machine.

I have toyed with the idea of the Airflex in the past so may look at it again.

I may be looking at selling on our Prowler if anyone is interested, email me at ian@lionheartcleaning.co.uk

[clarkson]

Positive things about the Airflex, we have a Prowler at the moment but are looking to move back to have a powerful porty as our main machine again, purely because the majority of our jobs are not suitable for a TM machine.

I have toyed with the idea of the Airflex in the past so may look at it again.

I may be looking at selling on our Prowler if anyone is interested, email me at ian@lionheartcleaning.co.uk

Hi

i think i have eaten something dodgy, is ian saying you cant do some jobs with a tm.

richard, mike hope your reading this.

[john martin]

It feels more powerful because after years of saying
lift is not needed, CFM's do the work, The Jaguar
has lower CFM's and higher lift.

   Ametek site states lift for 6.6 is 132" ... same or less than scorpion .


Re the airflex cable ...  bad location alright , im sure your or someone could relotate the cable glands to a better position ... the side perhaps .  just drill two holes for the glands ... feed more cable through to join up tp the previous location inside.

[Ian Gourlay]

I was just wondering if the Amtek motors in the Jaguar are available to all

What would be the effect  if you put them  in say a Ninja

[Joe H]

This is where the design of the machine comes into effect Ian.
Unless the tanks are made to sustain the effect of these new motors there will be a good chance damage to the tank will occur ie possibly split.
Despite what some may think its not just a case of "any plastic tank will do"

[john martin]

I was just wondering if the Amtek motors in the Jaguar are available to all

What would be the effect  if you put them  in say a Ninja

http://www.steam-bright.net/ameteklamb-ametek-lamb-motor-volts-p-10442.html

before you read the blurb and think ...wow

note lift same as three stage ... 
the ' efficiency' they talk about is electrical / amp draw
the cfm comparison is to a three stage of same amp draw ...  not a high watt threestage which draws more amps ... but has same cfm

if you put them in a ninja ... i believe u would get the same performance but draw a few less amps .

[Joe H]

if you put them in a ninja ... i believe u would get the same performance but draw a few less amps .

You reckon

[john martin]

if you put them in a ninja ... i believe u would get the same performance but draw a few less amps .

You reckon

Yes .. joe .   based on the figures/data provided by both ametek and cross american

[Joe H]

Well I wait in anticipation for someone with a Ninja to put 2 of these new motors in and tell us how it performs.
Anyone up for it?

[Darren O]

Joe who actually told you if you put these vacs in say a ninja or airflex that they could damage the machine

[Colin Day]

Joe who actually told you if you put these vacs in say a ninja or airflex that they could damage the machine

It stresses my Altec's body out to the point, I stop it...

[Colin Day]

if you put them in a ninja ... i believe u would get the same performance but draw a few less amps .

You reckon

Yes .. joe .   based on the figures/data provided by both ametek and cross american

John, you talk the talk and all that stuff. But you aren't a carpet cleaner.. are you?

[Joe H]

Darren
It sounds logical to me that if you put an upgrade into something that wasnt designed for it there may well be problems.
I trained as a mechanical engineer Darren, so can think things through, and it does seem logic also from lifes experiances to expect problems.
For example, you buy a 1250 Fiesta and then put a tuned up engine in it - would you expect it to be up to the job. I would expect brake problems, suspension problems and chassis problems at the least.

The reviews coming through from users of the Jaguar is that it out performs the Scorpion. (these reports are from Scorpion users who have upgraded so they can easily do a comparision). Leaving carpets dryer must mean that their are forces in excess of the Scorpion.
I see the Scorpion tank flex, just as I saw the tank on my CFR500 flexed (when I had one).
Logically then, if you just stick 2 new designed and improved vac motors into something that wasnt designed to take the pressure then you may get problems (you may not of course).
Hence I said is anyone willing to stick the 2 new motors into a Ninja - to see what happens.
But there again IF one would get the "same performance but draw a few less amps" then there would be no point.

Dont know what machine John Martin has got, but I reckon he should test his own belief and fit 2 of these new vac motors to his machine, then he could tell us all the result. If his belief is correct and the only difference is a few less then quiet possibly Cross America and Solutions are onto a loser.

And John, if you are not a carpet cleaner - what are you?
Apart from coming from Dublin, we know nothing about you, even your website link on here goes no where.

[Colin Day]

"And John, if you are not a carpet cleaner - what are you?
Apart from coming from Dublin, we know nothing about you, even your website link on here goes no where."

John seems to have all the answers, apart from the ones that MEAN anything. I would say to John..."If you wanna try it, I'll bring the machine to your door-step myself...." (At Solution's costs, I hope....... )

[Darren O]

So Joe you dont actually know if it would damaged the other machines mentioned it just sounds logical to you because your some kind of engineer now. On the american forums Mytee and Kleenrite have been using these same vacs and there hasnt been any problems at all just seems more nonsense from the usual suspects

[john martin]

 lol  ....  dont know why this subject gets so heated  
I only interject when i see a statment that seems illogical compared to the available data ... and perhaps based on hearsay ..  
anything i'v said is backed up with the available figures ...  if i am missing / overlooking something please set me straight with a logical argument .
Yes , i am a carpet cleaner  ..   the reason i became interested in motors lately is because im planing to build a quad vac ETM for myself ... partly for the hell of it .
i have tried Many machines over the years incl the scorpion ... i often favour a small lightweight twinvac ..
Im not hung up on vac performance , there are many other factors to doing a decent job .

[Joe H]

Darren - you say
"it just sounds logical to you because your some kind of engineer now".

Just put you right - I was an engineer, that was my apprenticeship - you know, those things that are in short supply these days. I dont profess to know the in and outs of these new motors but logic tells me (backed by my engineering background) their may be problems.

Do you know if Mytee or Kleenrite have or have not re-engineered their tanks?

And nothing is stopping you, John Martin, or anybody else from putting 2 (or even 3) of these new motors into your current cases if you want. But please tell us the result of your experiment.

Go for it John - 4 of these new vac motors. I will come over to Dublin to see it (I like the Guiness).

[Darren O]

Just what i thought Joe you cant back up one thing you say its just your opinion and like you say you dont know the ins and outs of these vac motors

[john martin]

A pint sounds good , joe . you would be very welcome .
Running the 6.6 in a quad vac would make lots of sence because of the low amp draw ...
However   ... mostly based on cost and  performance i have picked up 4 of ameteks finest 3 stages  

[Joe H]

will it have a heater 

[john martin]

will it have a heater 

i see where your going with this 

The planned machine would be for motors in parellel , with option of running 2  /3 or four vacs , with the addition of check valves of manual bunging ...
i plan to pass the waste exhaust of two vacs through a simple heat exchanger , acting as a preheater ...  depending on available circuits i would run an inline heater near the wand ... and  switching off a vac if problems occour .  Would also have an immersion on the large clean tank ...  which could be occasionally plugged in ( when were having the tea  perhaps )    Other options include a plumbed exchanger in the van etc ... bit messy for me to do though .

[AJB]

The Ninja has more lift than the Jaguar, so the tank will take it easily.
The lift quoted for the Jaguar is Bulls*~t, as it states "combined".
i.e added together, so the lift is infact half what is quoted.
It apparently out performs the Scorpion because it does have more lift
than the Scorpion.

Don't forget everyone who rushed to buy a Jaguar at the introductory price
are not going to tell anyone if they've dropped a b*llock, and it's actually no improvement.

Scorpion owners have for so long slagged off other 3 vac motor machines as not being in
the same league, so why did they need to "improve it".

Here's a comparison of motors

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KKAzll_-NA&NR=1

Joe if the Scorpion tank flexed with the lift the Scorpion has, then the lift my Powrflite
produces would crush it. CFMs don't cause the flexing, water lift does, i.e sheer suction.
I've never owned a Scorpion, but i tried one at the cleaning show a few years ago and was
decidedly underwhelmed, the Ninja i had at the time was substantially more powerful.

[AJB]

PS Joe if you buy them i've still got my old Ninja, and am
quite happy to fit the Lamb 6.6s, and try them out to prove a point
one way or the other. 

[Joe H]

Its Ian Gourlay that wants to know, not me Alan.

as for  "Don't forget everyone who rushed to buy a Jaguar at the introductory price
are not going to tell anyone if they've dropped a b*llock, and it's actually no improvement"....

to follow Darrens line .............  can you back that up, Alan, or is it just your opinion, and a way of knocking the supplier.

obviously I have more respect for my fellow professionals then some on here, who have bought the Jaguar and, in use on real live jobs, deem it better then what they had before.

Alan said "Scorpion owners have for so long slagged off other 3 vac motor machines as not being in the same league, so why did they need to "improve it".
Why does anything need to be improved that is successful?
Red Bull won the F1 world championship last year - why are they not just racing last years car? It was a winner, top car in motor racing.
To me the answer is logical but it appears I cant use logic on this forum.

My answer would be (for those interested) ..... the yearn to improve because designers/engineers want to improve, and the competition is not going to stand still - they want top spot, so improvements need to be made to stay no1 in 2011.

[Darren O]

Must admit Joe out of everybody on Scream It Up as you like to call it AJB knows his stuff and as far as iam aware has no axe to grind with Solutions so i think i would listen to him rather than you and Mr Muscle the oven cleaner but i still take your points on board.

[Billy Russell]

Mr Muscle the Oven Cleaner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Colin will like that!!!!!!!

[Darren O]

I think Joe has left us AGAIN dont worry he will be back

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

How did a thread about the Airflex end up as a row about Scorpions/Jaguars ?

[Colin Day]

Darren O, Alan just has a theory, he has no experience of this machine whatsoever, so I wouldn't take too much notice!

What is a shame, is that a lot of people who have bought the Jaguar won't even come on this forum to air their views about the machine. That's because whatever they say about it, some prat hiding behind a daft name without any contact details will air their unfounded views.

I pick my Jaguar up at the end of the month and that is down to the more experienced carpet cleaners giving it the thumbs up....

I have to say I'm very flattered to be referred to as Mr Muscle Oven Cleaner, your the first person in the whole wide world to have ever called me it..... 

[Billy Russell]

Told you he'd like it!!!!!!!!

[Colin Day]

Told you he'd like it!!!!!!!!

 

[AJB]

I'm not arguing about the Scorpion. Every machine on the market
has it's good points and bad points. But at the end of the day they
are basically modular units.
You choose your vacuum motors and arrangement AO or VO. You choose your
pump, you choose a heater or not as the case may be. You design the body around
it. If you want AO then there is virtually nothing between all the 3 vac machines.
The Scorpion i tried underwhelmed me because i'm used to VO machines. The jaguar
is more balanced on AO and VO, which brings it more into line with my preferances.
This implies to me that Cross American accepted that AO on the Scorpion was too extreme
and Ed realised that they needed to come back abit to improve the VO. But i still think quoting
combined lift is just a con, and since for years they have claimed lift was not what did the work,
but CFMs was, to use this trick of combined lift is an admission that they were wrong.
My original machine a Woodbridge Powerpak with 2 x 1000w 2 stage series Lamb Ameteks. had
more lift than either the Scorpion or Jaguar have.
Matt doesn't claim any figures for the Airflex turbo, but with the arrangement and vac's used i know
the case is true with this machine also.
All the machines out there will do a very good job, some quicker than others, all manufacturers will
rightly praise their machines, but never should any criticise the opposition.

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

Good answer

[Carpet Dawg]

How did a thread about the Airflex end up as a row about Scorpions/Jaguars ?

Thats salesmen for ya.

[Anthony Rowan]

I'm not arguing about the Scorpion. Every machine on the market
has it's good points and bad points. But at the end of the day they
are basically modular units.
You choose your vacuum motors and arrangement AO or VO. You choose your
pump, you choose a heater or not as the case may be. You design the body around
it. If you want AO then there is virtually nothing between all the 3 vac machines.
The Scorpion i tried underwhelmed me because i'm used to VO machines. The jaguar
is more balanced on AO and VO, which brings it more into line with my preferances.
This implies to me that Cross American accepted that AO on the Scorpion was too extreme
and Ed realised that they needed to come back abit to improve the VO. But i still think quoting
combined lift is just a con, and since for years they have claimed lift was not what did the work,
but CFMs was, to use this trick of combined lift is an admission that they were wrong.
My original machine a Woodbridge Powerpak with 2 x 1000w 2 stage series Lamb Ameteks. had
more lift than either the Scorpion or Jaguar have.
Matt doesn't claim any figures for the Airflex turbo, but with the arrangement and vac's used i know
the case is true with this machine also.
All the machines out there will do a very good job, some quicker than others, all manufacturers will
rightly praise their machines, but never should any criticise the opposition.

At last some body talking sence and not dribble or marketing hype.

Wind tunnel vacs my arse  

[John Kelly]

Very good post by Alun. At the end of the day the machine is just a means to an end.
As he says they all have their good and bad points. I know guys using single vac machines who earn far more than guys with top truckmounts. At a risk of sounding repetitive cleaning the carpet is not the most important part of running a carpet cleaning business. I think Jason Lawal said it in one, "no one went out of business because they couldn't clean a carpet".

[jasonl]

Yes John , that is an old Chem Dry saying ,    the CD system was never the best , the marketing still is the best though .


I would choose a machine based on  dealer proximity , dealer reputation , price  , looks in that order .

That makes this debate about what sucks marginally better   meaningless.  Next year a better model will be out , so what then ? get a new one ?  or  stick with inferior models?

[Colin Day]

I just don't get the negativity!

I don't have an opinion of the "Airflex" because I've never used one, I certainly wouldn't slag it off. What I am saying really is, unless you actually use a machine yourself, you AREN'T really in a position to slate it and your opinion is worth nothing.

[clarkson]

How did a thread about the Airflex end up as a row about Scorpions/Jaguars ?

hi steve
i know but its an improvement on the jaguar thread. 50 posts about truckmounts and a dozen calling joe. at least this one is about porty's

still dont know what to get.

cheers

john

p.s. if px with ian doesnt work out give us a shout.

[jasonl]

How did a thread about the Airflex end up as a row about Scorpions/Jaguars ?

hi steve
i know but its an improvement on the jaguar thread. 50 posts about truckmounts and a dozen calling joe. at least this one is about porty's

still dont know what to get.

cheers

john

p.s. if px with ian doesnt work out give us a shout.

I would have thought is was easy , very little to choose performance wise between them , which dealer is closer ?

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

I have said on many occasions that being able to derive to Altec makes them my preffered supplier, it's just so much easier than waiting for parts to arrive and then having to fit them.

Cheers

Doug

[Ian Gourlay]

Well it looks like by asking a Question I am responsible for JOE going

Si cannot debate with him anymore.

The Ninja was designed so you could connect two together for a really powerful water lift  or to sell another machine extra pipes etc .

But we used to have a guy on here called Gary who swore by the system

So if a Ninja is strong enough to withstand that amount of pressure it would probably be OK for these Supper Vacs in my opinion but as the Manufacturer has not sent me any to try and test so I can report back I cannot comment on results  .

Are well MIke H I better go back to the OLD CODGERS HOME while  you are revering yourself up for your honeymoon

Congrats  and best wishes.


Ian

[richy27]

gees     what happened to the good old portable vs tm debates       now the porty users argue amoungest them selves.  next they will having a did against who got the best colour machine .

[M.Acorn]

You just gotta do your best,with what you got,I had an emergency situation once,when my pump packed up,had about 4 stairs to clean,they had been pre sprayed,so what I did was empty my pressure sprayer,filled it with the mix from my tank,then sprayed and extracted the stairs,got decent results,and didn't get a call back,my 7 year old Steempro has earned me well over 100k ,must admit though,I have spent quite a bit of that on parts for it

[clinton]

Did that many years ago mark and had to fill up my pump up sprayer as was cleaning a suite and had on chair left to do..

[Colin Day]

gees     what happened to the good old portable vs tm debates       now the porty users argue amoungest them selves.  next they will having a did against who got the best colour machine .

Well... That's obviously me and my RED beast....

[richy27]

colin you re sprayed the new wagon to match

[clinton]

Is colins chuck wagon..

[Ian Gourlay]

gees     what happened to the good old portable vs tm debates       now the porty users argue amoungest them selves.  next they will having a did against who got the best colour machine .

Ive always considered Truck-mounters only buy one because they have a feeling of inadequacy

Is that good enough for you

Ian The remaining OLD CODGER