[brianbarber]

Hi guys

if using a truckmount machine is there ever a case for not pre vacuuming?

Many thanks

Mr B

[John Kelly]

There are a lot more carpet cleaners who don't pre-vac than those that do.

[derek west]

i never pre vac, i'm convinced it makes no difference unless your under powered or are bonneting, something that kieth robertson fell out with me about.

[markpowell]

Whats Pre-vaccing

[MAX Carpets]

I no understaond??

[Joe H]

If it looks "bit" free I dont pre-vac

If it is bitty then I do, just to get rid of the bigger bits..

[jasonl]

All non pre vaccers ,, check out ncca, iicrc procedures. It is ok banging on about training , if you then ignore and do it your way why bother with the training?

There are bits of grit and dust present that you can not see from 6 feet away whilst stood on a carpet , that no TM however powerful will ever suck out of a wet carpet.

[Mark_Jubb]

Always pre-vac, it's the way I was trained and have continued to do it, even when the customer says that she's done it.
But then again, I've not got a super sucky TM  :

[Joe H]

I hear what you say Jason and I did reply that if the carpet looks clean of bits then I dont vac.
Yesterday I didnt adhere to that.
For some reason I vacd with the Sebo prior to prespray etc, even tho the carpet was looking very clean.
The filter on my Prowler was still catching bits which must have been in the carpet after I Seboed, and I think the Sebo is a good vac.

[MAX Carpets]

We always ask custys to pre vac first, then go at it with TM. I'm sure this will once again roll on and on and on and on.......................................

[derek west]

i did the training to help me decide how i wanted to clean. just cos someone tells me thats the way to do it doesn't mean i have too, remember that most training courses were written 20 30 years ago when truckmounts and 3 vacs weren't around.

[richy27]

only pre vac when i feel needed.

[Buckland]

First thing is what does the carpet look like - on yer knees and dig into the pile with your fingernail - also have they vacced it and what sort of vac do they use and do they do it regular - these are all reasonable things to chat about and break the ice with as you are bringing stuff into the hallway (yes please white and no sugar) - most joes dont know what a beater bar is - which is fine its not their sort of thing or their business - but if they just use a crappy tesco 17.98 vac with a plastic head its going to show and you will need to vac no doubt about it -and 9 times out of ten I do - often its a practical thing too - lots of bigger bits will never get past the slot so if you aint vacced you end up picking them up!

Also I find alot of rentals and the like around me have sand from the little darlinks feet off the beach on em - now that is best got out with a vac initially - even then I had a job the other day when having pre-vacced anyway the rotovac was plastered with sand and lots in the inline too - also in small bedrooms where you cant do under the bed properly and the beds always been in the same position its good practice to vac under the beds coz it saves time later and looks really bad if you leave alot of dust and feathers under there - we are after all cleaning the carpets...

btw i just bought a Miele S720 for the carpets at home and it rocks - its got twin motors and if Miele made one that actually looked more like a commercial machine Id swap if for my bs36 without a backward glance

[Simon Gerrard]

We've had a Flexi5 on trial for a couple of weeks. It can dry vac and then brush in the pre-spray all in one machine. We were expecting it to make a difference but the pre-vaccing part of it made no difference whatsoever. Mind you, we are using a massively powerful Titan 875 Truck Mount, so that in itself pulls out far more deep down dirt than say a portable. So if you're using a portable perhaps pre-vaccing is best, just to make sure it's a top job.

Simon

[markpowell]

All non pre vaccers ,, check out ncca, iicrc procedures. It is ok banging on about training , if you then ignore and do it your way why bother with the training?

There are bits of grit and dust present that you can not see from 6 feet away whilst stood on a carpet , that no TM however powerful will ever suck out of a wet carpet.

Jason,
Do you still pass the van steering wheel through your hands at 10 to 2 ?
I know i dont, with the power of the equipment these days pre-vaccing is a waste of time on 90% of jobs, the customer has already done it with the likes of a dyson which is more than adequate for the job.
Mark

[richie]

Mark,   
You are spot on with your post. 

I think its common sense,  if the carpet looks like it needs a vac then you do it.  Most domestic carpets will have been vaced prior to your arrival.

Richie.

[derek west]

All non pre vaccers ,, check out ncca, iicrc procedures. It is ok banging on about training , if you then ignore and do it your way why bother with the training?

There are bits of grit and dust present that you can not see from 6 feet away whilst stood on a carpet , that no TM however powerful will ever suck out of a wet carpet.

Jason,
Do you still pass the van steering wheel through your hands at 10 to 2 ?
I know i dont, with the power of the equipment these days pre-vaccing is a waste of time on 90% of jobs, the customer has already done it with the likes of a dyson which is more than adequate for the job.
Mark

nail on the head

[jasonl]

Do you get on  your hands and knees ,and part the fibres and look at the grit left behind, because I have , after TM guys on here!

If you have ever seen the rug beater at Franklins ,you would vac every time.

I have been into the labs at CAMRASO  and seen how solids turn to mud ,then fall to the bottom of the carpet and then not be able to be vacced out by ANY vac.

[derek west]

ive never had a complaint. so until i do, i aint pre vaccing, (unless i feel its needed which is down to my common sense)

and before anyone starts, i'm not knocking guys that do pre vac. if you feel you need to then really you should.

[Simon Gerrard]

In the early days we did used to pre-vac and I remember quite vividly a number of customers getting seriously offended at us hoovering her carpet, as if she couldn't do that herself. If you are going to pre-vac it had better be with something a lot more substantial than your average Dyson because your customer will have already done it, or most have.

Jason, Don't believe everything shown to you by a boffin in a laboratory.  

Simon

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

As good as my Sebo vac is, it's no where near as powerful as the vacs on my extraction machine. Plus the amount of crap that my Envirodri kicks up somewhat nullifies the need to vacuum.

Having said that, I am mostly cleaning "clean" carpets and obviously I would pre-vac a carpet that would clearly benefit from doing so.

Jason, pre-vaccing is an important part of YOUR cleaning process, maybe not so vital when using HWE.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

We all bang on about choosing the right customer to work for meaning not the mingers, pre vacuuming is something I assess when I get on the job, I do believe that nowadays there's not the neccitty but you have to do the job as you see it at the time, I have a love ate with it as sometimes you 'know' it isn't going to make an ounce of difference.

Shaun

PS if you advertise it you do have to vac!( Steve )

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

Shaun, yeah I know it's on the video and if someone says they have seen it then I do vac first 

[jasonl]

As good as my Sebo vac is, it's no where near as powerful as the vacs on my extraction machine. Plus the amount of crap that my Envirodri kicks up somewhat nullifies the need to vacuum.

Having said that, I am mostly cleaning "clean" carpets and obviously I would pre-vac a carpet that would clearly benefit from doing so.

Jason, pre-vaccing is an important part of YOUR cleaning process, maybe not so vital when using HWE.

Pre vaccing is part of every accreditted process , and training course you will go on .

[happy mondays]

Hey   the post is quite funny in a way, a few people on here (at least 4).. mentioning no names, you know who you are   shame on you   how do you sleep at night...    

Why advertise to your customers that you pre vac when you are clearly stating on here you dont  :

If I were a customer who had read your standard cleaning process did include it, I would think it was a bit strange that you didnt use that high powered vacuum cleaner on my carpets before you cleaned them.

It takes a few minutes more on a job so I do it every time. Imo it makes alot of sense because it loosens the pile and will remove alot of dust ready for me to apply the pre spray.  

I am new to it and only use a twin vac portable, but believe me, it doesnt make good business sense to advertise something as part of your cleaning process that you do not include, why not just say we use something that is that powerful to clean your carpets that you or I dont need to pre vac, or just dont mention it and do your thing.

Regards,

Paul  

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

Yes I agree Jason, but as I said I am cleaning clean carpets most of the time and I know from the crap in my waste tank and the visual result at the end, that I am covering all the bases.

The point I was making is that, as you have mentioned before, pre-vaccing is vital when bonneting, which is what you mainly do. Pre-vaccing isn't vital in EVERY situation when using HWE, no matter what we are told on training courses.

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

Paul, I sleep just fine at night thanks - I'm not stitching anyone up by not pre-vaccing EVERY job even if I offer that as part of my cleaning process.

"Shame on you" ?! - I hope you're joking ?

[Simon Gerrard]

Paul,

You'd be better off agitating the pre-spray into the carpet with an Sebo Duo or Envirodri, it works the pre-spray into the fibres and loosens the dirt from deep down the carpet pile all in one operation. Unless you have a very powerful pile lifter or something a good deal more substantial than the customers own hoover you aren't going to do any better than she does on a daily basis.
If you are going to use a normal hoover or slightly better, you could give the carpet a thorough brushing along and across it with a stiff carpet brush and then hoover it, but even that won't give you as good a soil release as the above.

Simon

[derek west]

paul
this is all discussed when i do my survey and give a price. so i'm not false advertising.

like i said, i vac if i think it needs it

ps... we all claim to have the most powerful up to date cleaning equipment on the market so we're all bull pooters

[wynne jones]

As good as my Sebo vac is, it's no where near as powerful as the vacs on my extraction machine. Plus the amount of crap that my Envirodri kicks up somewhat nullifies the need to vacuum.

Having said that, I am mostly cleaning "clean" carpets and obviously I would pre-vac a carpet that would clearly benefit from doing so.

Jason, pre-vaccing is an important part of YOUR cleaning process, maybe not so vital when using HWE.

Pre vaccing is part of every accreditted process , and training course you will go on .

If you are into muckspreading then I can understand the keenness to vacuum as this is the main part of the cleaning process for you.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Years go when I first started carpet cleaning every carpet was patterned many customers wouldn't vac for weeks also they couldn't see the dirt in the carpet so would go years and may be a decade without have them cleaned, then the plain pastel colours came in which showed the dirt but not straight away, now cream and beige carpets are the norm and show everything so customers vac on a far more regular basis and have their carpets cleaned more frequently, couple with more efficient vacuum cleaners the need for pre vacuuming is become more for show (Low Moisture cleaning aside)

Shaun

[jasonl]

At least ours is a civil debate, look at the comments below this video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PebUjFUBpik

[MAX Carpets]

I dont do it, and I dont advertise it! Been going since 1988, have over 3000 HAPPY custys. Cant (orwont) teach an old dog new tricks!


Justin

PS Unless I feel it needs it that is.

[happy mondays]

No Steve I'm not joking  I dont know if you yourself state that you always pre vac in your own advertising, but others who have said they dont pre vac do advertise it. All I am saying which is very correct, is that if you say you are going to always pre vac you must, otherwise you are cutting corners, which may very well end up costing you some £'s because it is false advertising. The point I have made is a simple fact, and very good business advice.

I'm not really bothered and couldnt really care less if you or any one does or doesnt, but when someone is paying good money for someone to carry out a job for them, the least they can expect is for you or I to do what we have said we will do for them.

Derek I appreciate what your saying, if you tell them that you usually do always pre vac but wont do on this particular job its fine, you are doing what you have said you will. Maybe change the wording on your website to: we might pre vacuum, it all depends if you have   

Hi Simon, I do always pre vac, always pre spray with whatever I understand to be suitable for the condition of the carpet and agitate currently with a duo, then I extract with either fibre and fab, super chem or crystal green. 

I am doing what industry standards recommend, prochem told me to pre vac, might be going on the ncca next month, do they advise that you to pre vac 

But if I don’t always pre vac I wont advertise that I do.

Imo its better to pre vac with a good industrial vac before you wet it with pre spray, spray some water on a pile of dust and see what happens, I’m no expert but its not rocket science.

[Neil Grainger]

Always do it unless custmorer has Sebo or equivilent Vac and has just done it.

Even though i state it in my service letter I always tell the customer that if they have Vac'd I will ask if they want me to do it again. Some customers see it as an insult if you re=vac what they have just done themselves.

What ever you feel happy with is they way to run your business. NCCA say to Pre-vac, then again after a exam everyone is an expert and professional carpet cleaner.

[Neil Grainger]

Paul

you are teaching industry experts to suck eggs who have succesful cleaning businesses that they have been running for years.

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

Paul

Come back to this topic in a couple of years time and tell me you still pre-vac EVERY carpet you clean.

[MAX Carpets]

Westy

I'll consider myself tolf off!

Neil

Hows tricks? Nice & Busy I hope? I havnt seen you around for a while.

Justin

[MAX Carpets]

I meant Told,  sorry fingers arnt working, must be all that time I spent extracting today and not pre-vaccing!

[happy mondays]

Paul

you are teaching industry experts to suck eggs who have succesful cleaning businesses that they have been running for years.

Yea right   whats the problem with pre vacuuming a carpet Neil it wont ruin mine or any other business or make it run for any less time, are we on the same wave length here    

Paul

Come back to this topic in a couple of years time and tell me you still pre-vac EVERY carpet you clean.

Steve, if I do come back onto this topic in a couple of years and dont pre vacuum on every job, I wont advertise it to my customers, as I actually dont advertise it now, not seeing your point, to be totally honest Steve I cant really see why your trying to ruffle my feathers, you were not one of the four I was referring to in my 1st post, though no animosity was meant to them, I didnt read your post until I had posted mine.  I think its good to pre vac a carpet with a good vacuum cleaner before I wet it, is this wrong      

[Neil Grainger]

HI Justin

all good mate, Been a stange year so far Jan feb March were great april and May were just rubbish but this last week has been good, next week is ok and plenty booked for June.

did you hear that Catherine is getting married in 3 weeks, have you been invited?

[MAX Carpets]

It wont ruin carpets, but we are running a business, time is money Rodney!

[MAX Carpets]

Jan, Feb, March probably the worst years for me! Good now though. No I havnt seen Ron & Reg since School (Debbie & Catherine) But they are great girls, send Catherine my regards and wish her luck for big day.

[jasonl]

I would love to know why people do not pre vac , when it is recommended by so  many experts and does not take long .

[MAX Carpets]

TM,

[elliott cleaning]

........ I am mostly cleaning "clean" carpets..........

Steve - we operate in Surrey where this is the norm.    Guess other parts of the country suffer from a diferent level of soiling - so maybe sucking up with a dry vacuum before getting down to the real business is a necessity

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Weere thiz muck thiz brass! I like a dirty carpet shows the enemy what they're getting for their shillin !

Shaun

PS my vac sits pillion with me and with a seat belt on so the bobbys can't hand me a ticket.

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

........ I am mostly cleaning "clean" carpets..........

Steve - we operate in Surrey where this is the norm.    Guess other parts of the country suffer from a diferent level of soiling - so maybe sucking up with a dry vacuum before getting down to the real business is a necessity

That was the point I was trying to make young man  

Paul, not trying to ruffle your feathers at all mate, and no you're not wrong, it's simply not mandatory in every circumstance.

I was informed yesterday that a close relative has been diagnosed with luekemia and now today I have heard the tragic news about Andy - I guess my usual ability to get my point across has been affected by more important events.

[Neil Grainger]

Been ok, need to look at other marketing idea's and not just really on Internet

[derek west]

paul
you advertise 10 steps to carpet cleaning, (and your lucky your websites down as ive got out my fine tooth comb ) could you tell me what these are please.

like i said, i always pre vac but tell the customer its a waste and if they want to save some money they should opt out and i'll do it a bit cheaper, there, think thats the law suit covered.

jason
ive told you why i don't pre vac, 100% customer satisfaction. i rest my case.
ps...do you do a bleed test  before you clean every carpet? i hope so as thats how its taught. its industry standards to do a bleed test. and i hope you test your solutions on every carpet too. another industry standard. is there anything ive missed out as its been a while since i turned into a cowboy, yeeeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

[Colin Day]

It's funny really, this time last year most of you would be saying that they "Did" pre vac every time, but a lot of you are dropping your guard and being less pretencious... :

Next you'll be all admitting you only charge £8.99 per room and work like a Polish daffodil picker!!!

C-I-U= Cowboys In Unison

[happy mondays]

paul
you advertise 10 steps to carpet cleaning, (and your lucky your websites down as ive got out my fine tooth comb ) could you tell me what these are please.

like i said, i always pre vac but tell the customer its a waste and if they want to save some money they should opt out and i'll do it a bit cheaper, there, think thats the law suit covered.

jason
ive told you why i don't pre vac, 100% customer satisfaction. i rest my case.
ps...do you do a bleed test  before you clean every carpet? i hope so as thats how its taught. its industry standards to do a bleed test. and i hope you test your solutions on every carpet too. another industry standard. is there anything ive missed out as its been a while since i turned into a cowboy, yeeeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

My website isnt down mate it/they (2) are just being updated   10 step is:

1) Phone call
2) answer it
3) say hello
4) book the job
5) have a pint
6) go and do the job, with pre vac included
7) take the £'s
go and have another pint or two
9) ring the customer to see if they liked my bs36
10) receive the law suit  

[jasonl]

I must be a cowboy Paul , as I do not drink .

[happy mondays]

........ I am mostly cleaning "clean" carpets..........

Steve - we operate in Surrey where this is the norm.    Guess other parts of the country suffer from a diferent level of soiling - so maybe sucking up with a dry vacuum before getting down to the real business is a necessity

That was the point I was trying to make young man  

Paul, not trying to ruffle your feathers at all mate, and no you're not wrong, it's simply not mandatory in every circumstance.

I was informed yesterday that a close relative has been diagnosed with luekemia and now today I have heard the tragic news about Andy - I guess my usual ability to get my point across has been affected by more important events.

Sorry to hear the sad news about your relative Steve, didnt know Andy but have seen the posts and my condolences go out to all of his family.

It is hard to get a point across on a forum without someone taking it the wrong way, I am maybe guilty of this on this occasion, but only because I felt a bit of bitterness coming my way, no hard feelings though.

All the best, Paul

[happy mondays]

I must be a cowboy Paul , as I do not drink .

You have to take in fluids Jasonl or you will dehydrate and die 

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Only bleed test I do is on the customer to see how much I can take

Shaun

[Jason Hedges]

Like it Shaun .

I only vac when I feel necessary. On a job for letting agent today I would have because of the massive ammount of dust and pet hair in all the carpets. However there was no electricity so couldnt.

Still did the job with tm and a few extra passes of the wand and job done, running hand tool along skirting boards to remove what wand wouldnt pick up.

All the best,
Jason.

[derek west]

paul
good answer

[Shaun_Ashmore]

You have to take in fluids Jasonl or you will dehydrate and die 

I mentioned this to her indoors but she explained that they'll be a different fluid flowing out of my skull if I didn't shut up!

Shaun

[Jim_77]

What cleans a carpet better? A £100 hoover or a £10,000 truckmount?

There's only two cases I spend any amount of time with a vacuum in my hand, and that's as Joe says above if there's big bits that'll get shoved around by the wand rather than sucked up easily.  Second case is the edges - if there's loads of crap accumulated round the edges of the carpet I'll go round with the crevice tool because it's actually quicker than trying to do it with the wand.

However I always agitate, either with a groomer, duo or rotary brush. All 3 of which flick up loads of crap to the top of the carpet.  Most importantly they gather up all the fluff and hair, so it can get removed easily by extraction

On upholstery, I still vac the sides and back and most importantly down the inside edges where all the money goes (thinly veiled excuse to make a few more pence on each job ).

I disagree with the suggestion that customers take offence if you start off with a vacuum.  However, if you offend them by telling them their vacuuming is rubbish they will!  If you put a spin on it, like "your vacuuming is very helpful but I always do this because vacuuming twice is better than vacuuming once - I want to make sure I get the best job done for you"  or "I can see I'm not going to get much out of the carpet because you've vacuumed it so well, but it's always worth doing this because my vacuuming process is also to lift the pile, which helps the cleaning process".  People find it impossible to take offence at a compliment!

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

I only prevac on about 1 in 10 .

JasonL I believe only uses rotary where a pre vac is obviously important, but TM's are so powerful that in practice there is no benefit as the flushing of the water and the power of the TM will remove much more dirt than vaccing and also all the dirt that would have been removed by the prevac.

The main exception to this is dust under furniture which can be made more difficult by wetting, so I vac dry with the TM, being careful to add water on an adjacent piece of carpet to wet the dust after it enters my system.

Cheers

Doug

[robert meldrum]

Very rarely pre vacuumed for past 20 years............one exception woul be where there are cats in the home another when there's a lot of long hair evident usually girls bedrooms.

[MAX Carpets]

I find it very refreshing that alot of us are being truthful on this one.

I DONT PRE VAC!!!!!!

There said it again!


Off to burn my wifes Bra now!, I might eve take it off of her first..............boom boom

[Simon Gerrard]

 Emclean,