[Richard iSparkle]

Hi,

I;m interested to see what parts of growing a WC business people find difficult

Thanks

Richard

[Ooooooog]

Staff.

[Splash & dash]

As above good reliable staff

[lal]

  Growing the Business.

[Klean07]

Most of the above can be stressful though since I've put another van on the road and employed a part time office person  to manage advertising etc things are running much more efficiently.

[NWH]

If I could find 2 like me I’d never have to clean another window.

[SB Cleaning]

Getting out of bed in the morning.

[NWH]

If you have enough work at the moment there’s no stress if you employ it’s a different job all together,if you are WFP and you employ say 1 person if the worst comes to the worst and you are back on your own you can manage to keep going until you get another employee.
The stress starts when you have rounds-work that is impossible to be familiar with as you won’t know it like you’d know a smaller round,if you Could  get people that would stay in the job like they do on the post office or similar it would run fairly smoothly but in any form of cleaning industry it doesn’t. I will never employ anyone again that doesn’t have bills to pay if you can find someone in a position that doesn’t and they are reliable you will be very lucky,I’ve had 1 years ago that lived at home he was very good very reliable to the point I used to say to him have a day off tomorrow etc after he went I had 5-6 others that were all the same you never knew if they’d come in from one day to the next.

[NWH]

I don’t think that there is any other job I can think of that you can have a very good income and get next to no stress,when you have intentions of growing it to the point you’ll employ multiple people it then becomes just like any other business riddled with problems and ballache.
I don’t think there’s many that haven’t given it a go when they look at what they earn and think I could get someone to do exactly what I do and earn double,the short answer is it doesn’t ever work like that I’m afraid. 

[Richard iSparkle]

Bump   

[Stoots]

Staff.

Tried to expand beyond just myself having had 5 or 6 different people working for  me but never worked out. Hit a brick wall working on my own, so ended up just selling work off.

Like NWH says it all sounds easy on paper, buy another van set someone on and double your turnover. The reality is its an absolute ballache.

[NWH]

Like you say Gomo on paper it looks so easy I’ve sat down a few times and done the numbers over the years and the reality is for the extra amount it would be worth the hassle by far out ways the profit,I would not want the hassle it would take just for the fact I wouldn’t have to work at all in fact I enjoy working.
Can you get a reliable employee yes you can,is it possible to get 4-5-6 employees that will allow you to run the business with not much stress,very very unlikely. This is a funny old business window cleaning if you work for yourself you can see the benefits of having free time work when you like within reason holidays when you like there’s quiet a few things to list,when you work for someone doing this job you are cleaning windows for another window cleaner and you don’t have any of those things I’ve mentioned to motivate you,some may say you don’t know how to motivate people then but I think the reality is people still view this job differently that’s why it’s riddled with unreliable people even today when jobs are hard to come by.
Like I’ve said before give me 8-10 vans  a swivel 🪑 and 200k before Tax and I’d turn you down thanks.

[Richard iSparkle]

Another bump

[NWH]

And another

[Klean07]

Your right finding the right staff to employ is difficult I know I've had a few working for me over the years who turned out to be not suitable for one reason or another. However now that my son in law is onboard I can honestly say that he's the right one to employ. He was a long distance lorry driver before spending nights out in his cab in various parts of the UK. Being tired all the time due to very early starts and quality of life rubbish! Working for me has opened his eyes to a much different outlook on life.

[NWH]

Ideal business to expand if you have the right person but it’s very difficult to find that person,having 1 reliable person with you working from the same van is imo worth more than having 4-5 vans out with idiots working for you.
You can knock loads of work out with 2 of you from the same van the numbers you can do most wouldn’t believe if you have the right work,you’ll end up with no more money in your pocket having 3/4 vans out with wages and running costs than you would having 1 reliable person with you,like I say if you have the right work.
It’s not about 8-10 vans it’s about an easier life for not a massive amount less after Rishi’s had his lump off you.

[Richard iSparkle]

thanks for the voting chaps 

anyone still to vote please do

[NWH]

It’s staff m8 it’s easy enough to grow it it’s what happens when you’ve grown it and you are left with unreliable people to service the work,you are mirroring what you’ve done in theory it’s so simple.

[Richard iSparkle]

some people here have managed it though.

so what are they doing.. which others are not?

thats the Q I'm left with

[NWH]

You have to ask yourself what you want out of it do you want to switch off when you come home you can do this with 1 employee,do you want to employ 4-5-10 people if you do you can’t switch off.
Once you’ve got say 3 new vans out with 3 lots of wages not including what you want to earn not including all the insurances etc that goes with it you need a lot of work that runs like clockwork,of course it can be done but do the numbers and see if it’s worth doing imo you can do very well with 1 employee and the right work and still have a stress free life,ask the people that have gone down this route and then gone back to that example.

[NWH]

You say what are they doing that others aren’t well that’s the big question really,no one really knows if they are happy with what they are doing do they people can say what they like in the light of day when they have their own thoughts like we all do only they know if they wished they’d stayed smaller for less hassle.
Remember that it makes no difference what the first figure in the box is it’s what you’ve ended up with after the end of every January,I wouldn’t be thinking about going bigger at the moment anyway this time next year we will be at the start of the worst recession most of us have known.

[KS Cleaning]

You say what are they doing that others aren’t well that’s the big question really,no one really knows if they are happy with what they are doing do they people can say what they like in the light of day when they have their own thoughts like we all do only they know if they wished they’d stayed smaller for less hassle.
Remember that it makes no difference what the first figure in the box is it’s what you’ve ended up with after the end of every January,I wouldn’t be thinking about going bigger at the moment anyway this time next year we will be at the start of the worst recession most of us have known.

I got dizzy reading that🤣

[Richard iSparkle]

You say what are they doing that others aren’t well that’s the big question really,no one really knows if they are happy with what they are doing do they people can say what they like in the light of day when they have their own thoughts like we all do only they know if they wished they’d stayed smaller for less hassle.
Remember that it makes no difference what the first figure in the box is it’s what you’ve ended up with after the end of every January,I wouldn’t be thinking about going bigger at the moment anyway this time next year we will be at the start of the worst recession most of us have known.

https://bstrategyhub.com/businesses-that-are-recession-proof/

see number 8....

[NWH]

No business is recession proof you are dodging bullets in a business like window cleaning with type of customers-properties-areas,it all depends what part of the country you are in and what you’re customers do for a living.
If you clean a lot of old people’s homes or retired people it’s different if you have a particular round that is packed full of airport workers hotel and travel industry workers then it may be a different story,it’s pretty much recession proof I agree if you are on your own or have just 1 employee I wouldn’t want to be having to sustain multiple employees in any industry even window cleaning come the end of the year.
My personal opinion is times between cleans will stretch out more people might not lose a lot of work but they will need to fill the gaps between the ones that don’t want it doing so often,it’s bound to effect everyone to some extent.

[Pete Thompson]

some people here have managed it though.

so what are they doing.. which others are not?

thats the Q I'm left with

You have to remember the very important factor that many, many people who post a lot on here are actually clueless.  To be fair, I think this is a feature of forums generally, not just CIU.  The people who post the most (and with the strongest opinions) are often those who know the least.

There are plenty of people on here who think that a successful £1m turnover with window cleaning can't be done, but when someone comes on like Lee Pryor who has actually done it, and even says "this is how it's done" with details and even figures, they simply get abuse, told they are liars and eventually get fed up dealing with the morons and leave.

There is no point arguing with idiots on here, they are too numerous and (more importantly), having basically no life have way more time on their hands to sit trying to type out oh-so-clever put downs.  I'm sure we'll see an example before long.

Take, for example, one fairly prolific member on this thread, who has posted over 12,200 comments since they joined in 2007.  That's an average of one comment every 10 hours, of every single day (including weekends), of every single week, of every single month for 13 years.

You have to ask yourself about the quality of the advice from someone who has made life choices that have led them to a statistic like that.

[NWH]

Here I am you produce a figure of what someone earns that turns over 1 million pounds a year,after Vat and Tax what do they actually earn.
Say I have 10 vans what do I autually earn in my pocket so I can go out and spend on 🧁,a man like you must know the answers.

[NWH]

I’m already up to 30-35k a year on vans leased without wages building rent the list is growing,but wait I’m looking forward to the nearly 50% I’ve got to give to Rishi 🤣 and that’s just out of my cut,blimey just thinking about it has got my swivel 🪑 spinning.

[NWH]

No one or me is saying that a 1 million turnover cannot be done I’ve never said that or heard anyone else say that,I have said that just because someone is doing that it means nothing again I have said it’s all about margin.
Let’s say you pay staff on average 30k a year and an average on vans and business premises of 150k so x 10 on the staff side making an average total of  450k,after all the other expenses  and with Vat and Tax on the last bit to the 1 million what’s the guvnor ending up with. 
I reckon it’s pretty close to 10-14k a month after Rishi’s been round for tea.

[NWH]

some people here have managed it though.

so what are they doing.. which others are not?

thats the Q I'm left with

You have to remember the very important factor that many, many people who post a lot on here are actually clueless.  To be fair, I think this is a feature of forums generally, not just CIU.  The people who post the most (and with the strongest opinions) are often those who know the least.

There are plenty of people on here who think that a successful £1m turnover with window cleaning can't be done, but when someone comes on like Lee Pryor who has actually done it, and even says "this is how it's done" with details and even figures, they simply get abuse, told they are liars and eventually get fed up dealing with the morons and leave.

There is no point arguing with idiots on here, they are too numerous and (more importantly), having basically no life have way more time on their hands to sit trying to type out oh-so-clever put downs.  I'm sure we'll see an example before long.

Take, for example, one fairly prolific member on this thread, who has posted over 12,200 comments since they joined in 2007.  That's an average of one comment every 10 hours, of every single day (including weekends), of every single week, of every single month for 13 years.

You have to ask yourself about the quality of the advice from someone who has made life choices that have led them to a statistic like that.

At a bit of a loose end this evening then Pete 🤣🤣

[Slacky]

You say what are they doing that others aren’t well that’s the big question really,no one really knows if they are happy with what they are doing do they people can say what they like in the light of day when they have their own thoughts like we all do only they know if they wished they’d stayed smaller for less hassle.
Remember that it makes no difference what the first figure in the box is it’s what you’ve ended up with after the end of every January,I wouldn’t be thinking about going bigger at the moment anyway this time next year we will be at the start of the worst recession most of us have known.

This time next year? What’s happening between now and then?

There’s plenty of recession proof businesses btw.

[Smudger]

https://www.goalcast.com/2017/10/06/rick-rigsby-the-wisdom-of-a-third-grade-dropout/

[johnwillan]

Hi Richard

Nothing really, it all works rather well, yes we get a few issues from time to time but overall it's fairly simple.

HTH

John

[NWH]

https://www.goalcast.com/2017/10/06/rick-rigsby-the-wisdom-of-a-third-grade-dropout/

A window cleaner giving advise to another window cleaner 🤣🤣🤣,it’s not difficult this building a window cleaning business I don’t see many people running a million £ turnover business saying my numbers are outrageously wrong though do we 🤣🤣 I reckon I’m fairly close.

[Stoots]

No one or me is saying that a 1 million turnover cannot be done I’ve never said that or heard anyone else say that,I have said that just because someone is doing that it means nothing again I have said it’s all about margin.
Let’s say you pay staff on average 30k a year and an average on vans and business premises of 150k so x 10 on the staff side making an average total of  450k,after all the other expenses  and with Vat and Tax on the last bit to the 1 million what’s the guvnor ending up with. 
I reckon it’s pretty close to 10-14k a month after Rishi’s been round for tea.

Thats the thing, any one of us could re invest and re invest until we hit 1k turnover. Thats the easy part...the hard part of course is dealing with all the stress that would cause which most of us wont have the stomach for...

And i agree, when you look at the huge amount of stress and the poor margins you decide actually i dont want any part of that poop and stay on your own.

[Richard iSparkle]

Hi Richard

Nothing really, it all works rather well, yes we get a few issues from time to time but overall it's fairly simple.

HTH

John

That simplicity is what I seek John!

 

[johnwillan]

No one or me is saying that a 1 million turnover cannot be done I’ve never said that or heard anyone else say that,I have said that just because someone is doing that it means nothing again I have said it’s all about margin.
Let’s say you pay staff on average 30k a year and an average on vans and business premises of 150k so x 10 on the staff side making an average total of  450k,after all the other expenses  and with Vat and Tax on the last bit to the 1 million what’s the guvnor ending up with. 
I reckon it’s pretty close to 10-14k a month after Rishi’s been round for tea.

Thats the thing, any one of us could re invest and re invest until we hit 1k turnover. Thats the easy part...the hard part of course is dealing with all the stress that would cause which most of us wont have the stomach for...

And i agree, when you look at the huge amount of stress and the poor margins you decide actually i dont want any part of that poop and stay on your own.

That's an awful lot of assumptions

[NWH]

Yes I’m waiting to be told different.

[KS Cleaning]

No one or me is saying that a 1 million turnover cannot be done I’ve never said that or heard anyone else say that,I have said that just because someone is doing that it means nothing again I have said it’s all about margin.
Let’s say you pay staff on average 30k a year and an average on vans and business premises of 150k so x 10 on the staff side making an average total of  450k,after all the other expenses  and with Vat and Tax on the last bit to the 1 million what’s the guvnor ending up with. 
I reckon it’s pretty close to 10-14k a month after Rishi’s been round for tea.

All this second guessing what the big boys are taking home is getting boring, you need to let it go🤣

[johnwillan]

Yes I’m waiting to be told different.

I don’t think you’re too far of the mark but it will vary from one business to another

Some will see those as good returns, others won’t

Some can do it without major issues, others can’t.

I guess it’s a case of find your niche and run with it.

Good Luck

[johnwillan]

You say what are they doing that others aren’t well that’s the big question really,no one really knows if they are happy with what they are doing do they people can say what they like in the light of day when they have their own thoughts like we all do only they know if they wished they’d stayed smaller for less hassle.
Remember that it makes no difference what the first figure in the box is it’s what you’ve ended up with after the end of every January,I wouldn’t be thinking about going bigger at the moment anyway this time next year we will be at the start of the worst recession most of us have known.

Or conversely, happy that they’ve grown.

Understanding’Modern Monetary Policy’ might help allay your fears.

Good Luck

[NWH]

No it won’t because a business of that kind of size is not particularly cash rich ok you turnover a million quid a year so the borrowing power is available up until now anyway  to allow people to look it lol,like I say the argument in the end is always I’m running a business you are not which is rubbish. If you did the percentages of what you actually end up with like I say after Vat Tax you aren’t a lot better off than say someone with 1-2 staff,I wouldn’t want to run a business window cleaning of that size for  the amount I think is going to go in my pocket  a month just me personally the stress would shadow the profit.
Good money next to no hassle choose within reason where you work and when and who for,no brainier for some 👍

[johnwillan]

No it won’t because a business of that kind of size is not particularly cash rich ok you turnover a million quid a year so the borrowing power is available up until now anyway  to allow people to look it lol,like I say the argument in the end is always I’m running a business you are not which is rubbish. If you did the percentages of what you actually end up with like I say after Vat Tax you aren’t a lot better off than say someone with 1-2 staff,I wouldn’t want to run a business window cleaning of that size for  the amount I think is going to go in my pocket  a month just me personally the stress would shadow the profit.
Good money next to no hassle choose within reason where you work and when and who for,no brainier for some 👍

Correct, lots of business's are cash poor relying on debt to survive, but not all are, some thrive.

I agree that is a rubbish argument, they are all business's big and small

I guess 'a lot better off' is very subjective

I think you fully understand and appreciate your abilities, aims and desires - well done.

[Richard iSparkle]

what we should all be aiming for is growing a business which is the right size for yourself.

we all have a different mix of strengths, and these adapt over time too.

we all have different opportunities open to us, and we all have different goals that we would consider success.

there's nothing wrong with being a single chap cleaning and pocketing all the money with limited expenses and not relying upon staff IF that is what works for you.

there's nothing wrong with having a different business with staff IF that works for you

it sounds like John AND NWH know what their strengths and goals are and both seem happy with where they are with their own businesses. thats brilliant!

[johnwillan]

what we should all be aiming for is growing a business which is the right size for yourself.

we all have a different mix of strengths, and these adapt over time too.

we all have different opportunities open to us, and we all have different goals that we would consider success.

there's nothing wrong with being a single chap cleaning and pocketing all the money with limited expenses and not relying upon staff IF that is what works for you.

there's nothing wrong with having a different business with staff IF that works for you

it sounds like John AND NWH know what their strengths and goals are and both seem happy with where they are with their own businesses. thats brilliant!

Perfect! Couldn't have said it better myself

[NWH]

You are right it is a rubbish argument to a point only until I hear people saying you have 2-3 people it’s not a business etc,believe me I’ve had this conversation with many what some would think very successful people but more often than not the margin is the same and in a lot of cases as is the pound in pocket.
If you turnover more money you can borrow more money 1 person might be able to borrow enough to buy thereselves a Toyota Aygo and still struggle,the next person might be able to finance a Ferrari and be in the same position although he thinks he’s more successful in monetary terms he’s not lol,the more you turnover the bigger the financial debt especially if it’s only a million and over half of it is Tax Vat and expenses.
To become a cash millionaire at window cleaning you would need to be taking a lot more than a million a year with a decent margin for years,I would love to be proved wrong 😳.

[johnwillan]

You are right it is a rubbish argument to a point only until I hear people saying you have 2-3 people it’s not a business etc,believe me I’ve had this conversation with many what some would think very successful people but more often than not the margin is the same and in a lot of cases as is the pound in pocket.
If you turnover more money you can borrow more money 1 person might be able to borrow enough to buy thereselves a Toyota Aygo and still struggle,the next person might be able to finance a Ferrari and be in the same position although he thinks he’s more successful in monetary terms he’s not lol,the more you turnover the bigger the financial debt especially if it’s only a million and over half of it is Tax Vat and expenses.
To become a cash millionaire at window cleaning you would need to be taking a lot more than a million a year with a decent margin for years,I would love to be proved wrong 😳.

Although a lot of business act the way you describe there are many that don't.

With earnings of £150k it would take 6 years to build a cash pile of £1m, I guess it's a personal view as to wether that is a long time or not.

A business throwing off £150k earnings is returning twice the market rate (index tracker fund approx 7%) so the question would be... where would you invest the £1m cash pile or would you put it to another use?

I'm sure there are a few working on it

[NWH]

That’s without any reinvestment back into the business which would be more than your 7% so the 150k is reduced,you will also only get those kind of percentages long term these days.

[NWH]

Plenty of window cleaning millionaires out there then eh 🤣🤣,again presuming that the whole 150k would go straight into the bank or some other investment and not be spent on anything like reinvestment or mortgage and general household bills says it all let’s be honest.
Like I said I’d love to be proved wrong but I would think I’d have a long wait,I’m not talking about cleaning 100 story buildings off of ropes etc I’m talking domestic window cleaning here.
The country is at this time on its arse and is about to lean back another 90 degrees soon and  be tits up so I don’t think we’ll see to many millionaires in our game 🤣.
A business with anything like 10-15 employees  in window cleaning is not going to make anyone a millionaire anytime soon if they are turning over 1 million a year unless there’s razor blades and white powder involved.