IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« on: January 28, 2004, 04:52:38 pm »
In an earlier posting a Contributor has insinuated that a court case exists which undeniably documents the fact that the “Solution products” are identical to those of One Step®.  I suspect if such a court case/court judgment existed, it would beyond a doubt support and document (naturally with supportive laboratory tests ascertaining that the formulations are identical as well as the cleaning integrities of the respective products) the insinuation made!   Please do step forward and provide proof of such (Which court, court case file number, laboratory test results, etc.).

As everyone in the industry knows (maybe with the exception of the contributor!), Mr. Ed Crawford entered into a Licensing Agreement with Solution Glöckner GmbH towards the beginning of 1998 for the exclusive sales rights of the One Step® products in Europe. Mr. Crawford sent Solution Glöckner GmbH the raw materials required for producing these. The last shipment of raw materials was shipped to Solution Glöckner GmbH in the beginning of 2000. In November 2000, Mr. Crawford was forced to terminally cancel this Agreement with Solution Glöckner GmbH, this without rebut.

In December 2000, Solution Glöckner GmbH did national advertising in the major trade magazines in Germany claiming that there was a name change from One Step® to Solution® with the insinuation that there was only a name change and that One Step® products/formulas would be sold as Solution® in the future. Solution Glöckner GmbH was served with a cease and decease from the following court in Germany.
(Landgericht – 1. Zivilkammer, Limburg a.d. Lahn, Germany Case # 1 O 617/00).

It seems that many companies were mislead by this information. A distribution company in Germany purchased Solution® product from Solution Glöckner GmbH believing they were receiving One Step® product under a different name. As this was/is not the case, the company sued Solution for damages and won the case. It is clearly documented in this case that the accused did not deliver the so called “One Step®” products with a name change, but that in the case of products labeled “Solution®” that these are a different cleaning product.
(Amtsgericht Ludwigshafen am Rhein, Luwigshafen am Rhein, Germany Case # 2 a C 156/01).

Different companies have tried to ride the coat tail of success the One Step® products have brought to the market. Some will, and have tried nearly everything, to either copy cat or put down the One Step® products in some fashion or form. Solution Glöckner GmbH was charged with fraud for selling product that was labeled One Step® but did not contain such. This happened during the time period Solution Glöckner GmbH had sales rights in Europe of the One Step® products. The district attorney seized files of Solution Glöckner GmbH and based on evidence it found were going to press charges. Solution Glöckner GmbH was offered “to pay a fine or face charges”. Solution Glöckner GmbH paid a fine and the charges were dropped. (Staatsanwaltschaft Kaiserslautern, Kaiserslautern, Germany, Case # HR 151/00 B)

“Copies of these court case cases can be requested respectively through the courts”.

It was further insinuated that the products are identical by “specific gravity”, etc. If they were identical, for example, then their applications/dilutions would be identical too. My challenge to those who claim Solution Products have a better dilution ratio is to conduct a test by mixing both products “Say at the ratio of: 20:1, or even higher!!” and test the integrity and performance of both products side by side.  The results will speak for themselves!!

In regard to the term “Micro-Splitting”, this is actually synonymous with One Step® products. One Step® products revolutionized the cleaning industry in Europe. The One Step® “Micro-Splitting” cleaning technology was the first to be recognized and instrumented “detergent, enzyme and solvent-free” cleaning system in many countries in Europe. Trade Associations and schools in Germany which cater to janitorial and facility up keep, for example, teach and educate their students about the use of “Micro-Splitting” products as well as detergents, enzymes, etc.  I hope that in the near future training schools in the UK will adopt a similar policy.  Solution may use this term as a “marketing tag” on their labels by there own admission however, this is certainly not the case with “One Step® Products”.  

Karl Nilchibar



stevegunn

Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2004, 05:13:22 pm »
Obviously the introduction of Solution has affected someones sales figures ::)

Mark Betts

  • Posts: 449
Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2004, 05:34:25 pm »
hahahahah  someone dont like competition.

Basically if it works , use it.
A Dog Isnt Just For Christmas.........  Save a Bit For Boxing Day  !!!!!

Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2004, 05:38:12 pm »
Looks like i will stick to prochem!

Mark Betts

  • Posts: 449
Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2004, 05:42:34 pm »
Look at it this way.

A lot of guys on this forum have used One Step for as long time.

Now along comes an equivalent product that does the same job (CLEANS CARPETS AND RINSES OUT WITH FRESHWATER) but is far far cheaper!!!

Which one are ya gonna buy???


A Dog Isnt Just For Christmas.........  Save a Bit For Boxing Day  !!!!!

Phil Marlor

  • Posts: 678
Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2004, 05:48:06 pm »

I would like to know the true difference between the two products, as one is much cheaper than the other.

One Step has increased as much as 25% just lately, maybe they should look at that "if" sales are down rather than complain about competitors.

What annoyes me is the way some companies use these boards as some sort of free advertising campaign for their products, you never see Prochem, Chemspec Hydramaster etc employes using these sites for their Company benefit, they let the individuals who use their products make judgements and say where they can be obtained.

Perhaps one post may have rattled the One Step cage, but the fact is that these boards have given One Step huge coverage and free advertising.

Phil
Stevenage, Herts

LUTON TOWN 3-0 SUNDERLAND

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2004, 05:50:42 pm »
time will tell who lasts the longest, may be who markets their product the best. Like most things in life if you take your foot off the gas you will eventually stop!!

Shaun( a not very happy cc as I have had to cancel a job because of the snow )


Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2004, 06:02:33 pm »
By coincidence :o I used my first Solutions chemicals today. I cleaned 80/20 sandy coloured H/S/L and 4 rooms, same as i have done at the same address for the last 3 years running. This being my 4 th annual visit, I assumed the carpets would be med/light soiled as per usual. I never reckoned on a 10 month old baby ::) Thus the carpets were slightly worse than last year and there was 2 inches of snow on the ground at the time.
My point is that the job took 20% less time to carry out and the first 2 rooms were about dry before i started the H/S/L. I have been back only 1 and half hours and already the client has called to praise the DRY results.  8)
Solutions has made my day quicker, easier, cheaper and more productive as first visitor to the house today has already arranged an estimate in Wimbledon ( big houses ) ;D   COINCIDENCE.........I DON'T THINK SO!!!!

stevegunn

Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2004, 06:15:46 pm »
Similar to strakercleaning done a nursing home this morning have done for the last three years.The owner has just been on the phone saying how pleased he is with the job as he thought he was going to have to replace the carpet I used Solution for the first time on this carpet.I know from now on which chemical i'll be using.  

Chris R

  • Posts: 813
Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2004, 07:08:54 pm »
To Chris Straker.
Did you use the One Step product on your last visit to that house? Not clear in your posting- if so then its a good comparison.
Staffordshire

Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2004, 07:25:53 pm »
Always used Prochem so new to microsplitters.  ;)
Making the point that Solutions chemical did a better job in less time. I also notice the cost difference against One-Step when looking at new chemicals.  :o I only have A level Maths and never sat the exam in ROCKET SCIENCE ::)
Looking for new ways to improve results, job time and budget so it seemed the OBVIOUS choice to me........ 8)


Glynn

  • Posts: 1129
Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2004, 07:26:01 pm »
Its not that important wether he used one-step last time or not in order to achieve a comparison. If you clean a carpet say last year, and then return the next year for example and this time you use a new product and the results are better than before and its drier etc its not neccessarily the new chem ,but could be due to the fact that more residue from previous cleans (ie years of it) has been removed, no one product can remove all traces of previous residues unless its a defoamer etc.It is removed in stages(cleans) otherwise you would have to wet it up too much in order to achieve the rinsing required.
I have used One Step for some time now and am reasonably happy with it, I now also have Solutions products, and I must say it does seem more "concentrated", obviously I cant say for sure and it is cheaper, but price isn't everything. If one product is £10 a gall and the next is £15, its not going to make a huge difference in operational costs considering the dilution rates etc.

Glynn
Regards
Glynn

rob_s

  • Posts: 118
Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2004, 07:27:00 pm »
Hi
    Where is Easy step in all  this.
   





    rob-s

Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2004, 07:36:55 pm »
Only RESIDUE from last 3 years of cleaning would be Prochem Fibre & Fabric Rinse and 3M Scothgard. ;)
I forgot to add, that this year the carpet does not to be re- Scotchgarded as clean water rinse does not diminish the protection ;D
And to the last point that £5 a gallon will not make much difference to your budget.......TRUE ::) but if you use 100 gallons a year (=£500) and budgeting is about getting the best product for the best price.
My local pub sells me a pint of Stella for £2.50 but if i walk for 10 mins more............Wetherspoons do it for £1.99.........am i right or wrong to waste 10 minutes walking. ( 8 times .56p = £4.48 = 2 more pints with 50p change) ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???sums is sums

woodman

  • Posts: 1069
Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2004, 07:39:23 pm »
Hi Guys

I think Karl is entitled to his right of reply if someone (I didn't see it) made an accusation or otherwise that he doesn't agree with.

At the end of the day it's up to us which of the solutions we  buy and use and postings on this forum has recommended both.

Here's a challenge to both suppliers, how about a discount to Cleanitup members as know doubt we have supplied both of you with plenty of new business over the past few months, a little something in return would not go amiss ;)


Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2004, 07:45:08 pm »
I AGREE ;D
Maybe we should all post up which brand we use ... then the other brand could send out a free sample. :o
We could all make an educated desicion then, based on experience rather than guesswork :-X

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2004, 07:50:34 pm »
none of us are in a position to comment on the comparison betreen Solution & One-step.

Its not as easy as saying "last time it cleaned in 20mins using One-step and this time it cleaned in 10mins using Solutions, so Solution must be better".

or

Solution seems more concentrated.

Why not invite the representivtives of both companies to come along to the sunny day out and we can put them side by side to do a real test.


as for One step being worried about the competition, if what they say is true, they are just rightfully protecting their name. what would you do if a new carpet cleaner started near you and started telling lies about your company


mike
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Glynn

  • Posts: 1129
Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2004, 07:54:42 pm »
Mike one of them IS coming to the sunny day out!
Regards
Glynn

Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2004, 08:00:10 pm »
Comparisons were between microsplitters this clean and traditional Prochem chemicals used in the past ::)
I have never used both products ( Solutions/One Step)
so i am not in a position to compare results. BUT i am in a position to convey my impression of the results i have had, the service that i got, the reaction of a client of 4 years and the price at which i purchased. 8)
None of the above is supposition, rumour, slander, liable or spite :-X I have no axe to grind and FREE SPEECH SHOULD COST NOTHING.
Chris Straker

stevegunn

Re: IDENTICAL PRODUCTS - BALDERDASH!!
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2004, 08:20:15 pm »
Mike are you saying one of the companies in question are telling lies ???