Graeme Smith

Whats the difference? A high alkaline floor 'cleaner' say 13.5 will remove waxes sealants etc. A high alkaline speed stripper like chemspecs product is alot cheaper and when you stick it on a dirty sandstone floor it will also create a clean mark when its wiped off. This twists my brain both will strip/clean and are usually very different in price why is a high alkaline cleaning product by aquamix/lithofin etc better? Is it the amount of surfectants or what?? Chemically what's the difference?

Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407
I also use the Chemspec product you mention when deep cleaning stone.

Its intended purpose is to break down the cross linked bonds in the polymers of acryllic floor finishes. High Power Stripper is particularly useful on urethane fortified finishes such as Chemspecs Tight Shine.

We turn to Aquamix Sealing and Coating Remover when things get a little tougher ie. paints, varnish etc.

Graeme Smith

So you can buy lithofin intensive for £60.00+VAT for 5 litres or Chemspec power stripper for £17.00+Vat ish and the Chemspec product may work better or at least as well for general stone floor cleaning?.
The reason I ask is I have just completed a sandstone floor clean, after running out of high alkaline I finished the job with the remains of Chemspecs floor stripper which I had on the van - it worked really well. Would this product remove lithofin slate seal (solvent based topical) as that is often applied by tilers to Indian/chinese slate for the gloss effect.

Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407
In my experience if the brand of topical finish can be found out I use the same brand remover as it has been developed to remove their own product. The best way is to carry a few types of stripper in your test kit and determine which works best/fastest during the survey.

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
Whats the difference? A high alkaline floor 'cleaner' say 13.5 will remove waxes sealants etc. A high alkaline speed stripper like chemspecs product is alot cheaper and when you stick it on a dirty sandstone floor it will also create a clean mark when its wiped off. This twists my brain both will strip/clean and are usually very different in price why is a high alkaline cleaning product by aquamix/lithofin etc better? Is it the amount of surfectants or what?? Chemically what's the difference?

Graeme

Sorry I know nothing about Chemspec products! How much does their stripped cost in comparison to Aqua Mix HDT&Grout Cleaner?  I am interested to try it if It's good I am just shocked it is cheaper!

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tilinglogistics 
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407
I will send you some down Kevin.

Data sheet on the page below.

http://www.cleaningsystems.co.uk/product/119/chemspec_high_power_floor_stripper

Jason Smith

  • Posts: 62
Whats the difference? A high alkaline floor 'cleaner' say 13.5 will remove waxes sealants etc. A high alkaline speed stripper like chemspecs product is alot cheaper and when you stick it on a dirty sandstone floor it will also create a clean mark when its wiped off. This twists my brain both will strip/clean and are usually very different in price why is a high alkaline cleaning product by aquamix/lithofin etc better? Is it the amount of surfectants or what?? Chemically what's the difference?
Graeme, many of us use the term "high alkaline" for cleaners and strippers, the thing is this just describes the pH level, the difference in price is to do with the active ingredients and not normally the concentrate or pH level. Many different chemical ingredients have an alkaline pH level but they alone will not remove topical coatings. Like acid that will remove and neutralise lime, calcium etc, alkaline will remove organic soiling, grease, grime etc. To formulate a product that will remove waxes, metalised polishes and then more technical acrylic and P.U coatings takes different higher grade more expensive ingredients. You will normally find a product that promotes that it will remove waxes, polished etc will not be advanced enough to remove higher grade coatings like acrylic, P.U's and epoxy sealer, these normally require "Special Removers" that can be expensive, but for good reason.
Jason Smith - Business Manager

Graeme Smith

Thanks all  -what I am driving at is trying to work out what these products are chemically as they both can be high alkaline but in theory are for slightly different tasks. I have noted when a blob of high alkaline cleaner by a reputable brand like aquamix or lithofin are put side by side on a very dirty floor they work well. The chemspec product also works well but not always as well at first but it can still do the job. What I cannot tell you is why the floor is so dirty or what sealers are present - topical or sub surface The jobs are I am looking at are floors where the customer does not know if or when it was sealed, sometimes they have inherited the floor when they bought the house. I am guessing that the more expensive cleaners work quicker and make life easier

Jason Smith

  • Posts: 62
So you can buy lithofin intensive for £60.00+VAT for 5 litres or Chemspec power stripper for £17.00+Vat ish and the Chemspec product may work better or at least as well for general stone floor cleaning?.
The reason I ask is I have just completed a sandstone floor clean, after running out of high alkaline I finished the job with the remains of Chemspecs floor stripper which I had on the van - it worked really well. Would this product remove lithofin slate seal (solvent based topical) as that is often applied by tilers to Indian/chinese slate for the gloss effect.

I'd be very surprised to hear that the Chemspec product would remove the Lithofin Slate Seal, I would imagine this product is designed to remove hard & soft floor metalised polishes. To the best of my knowledge there isn't many water based or soluble solvent products that will remove high grade solvent based coatings, apart from low cost solvent based external driveway coatings.
Jason Smith - Business Manager

Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407
It wont shift excessive amounts of stain stop thats been over applied or slate seal.

You need Lithofins evil Wexa product for that kinda task.

Jason Smith

  • Posts: 62
Thanks all  -what I am driving at is trying to work out what these products are chemically as they both can be high alkaline but in theory are for slightly different tasks. I have noted when a blob of high alkaline cleaner by a reputable brand like aquamix or lithofin are put side by side on a very dirty floor they work well. The chemspec product also works well but not always as well at first but it can still do the job. What I cannot tell you is why the floor is so dirty or what sealers are present - topical or sub surface The jobs are I am looking at are floors where the customer does not know if or when it was sealed, sometimes they have inherited the floor when they bought the house. I am guessing that the more expensive cleaners work quicker and make life easier
Graeme, I was restoring and cleaning floors for 12 years and your question has a very detailed answer. All I can say is there is not any one product that will do everything, regarding Alkaline products there are 3 types. Alkaline Cleaner which will offer professional cleaning results, Alkaline Stripper which will remove waxes and basic topical coatings and then the belt and braces Professional Restoration product, Special Remover this will be expensive but is the only type of product that will do specialist removal work. My advice is to keep a little of all 3 products in the van and when you do your quote test patch or before you start work on the floor one of these products will give you the answers.
Jason Smith - Business Manager

Jason Smith

  • Posts: 62
It wont shift excessive amounts of stain stop thats been over applied or slate seal.

You need Lithofins evil Wexa product for that kinda task.
No and you wouldn't expect it too, even using Wexa wouldn't remove or strip MN Stain Stop or Slate Seal, light product residue would require Wax Off and heavy agitation.
Jason Smith - Business Manager

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
So you can buy lithofin intensive for £60.00+VAT for 5 litres or Chemspec power stripper for £17.00+Vat ish and the Chemspec product may work better or at least as well for general stone floor cleaning?.
The reason I ask is I have just completed a sandstone floor clean, after running out of high alkaline I finished the job with the remains of Chemspecs floor stripper which I had on the van - it worked really well. Would this product remove lithofin slate seal (solvent based topical) as that is often applied by tilers to Indian/chinese slate for the gloss effect.


I see but the Aqua Mix Heavy Duty Tile & Grout Cleaner only costs £15 +VAT. Can the Chemspec be diluted as well?  I will test it when Jamie sends it to me. But it is as already said on here it is the other active ingredients in the cleaners that cost the money  not the Ph levels.  Aqua Mix do a superb high Alkaline Cleaner
 for less than £3 a gallon to Trade Customers.

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407
It wont shift excessive amounts of stain stop thats been over applied or slate seal.

You need Lithofins evil Wexa product for that kinda task.
No and you wouldn't expect it too, even using Wexa wouldn't remove or strip MN Stain Stop or Slate Seal, light product residue would require Wax Off and heavy agitation.

Apologies. I mean Wax Off. I love how it melts your shows if you stand on it by mistake in trainers.

StoneSealersHQ

  • Posts: 62
It wont shift excessive amounts of stain stop thats been over applied or slate seal.

You need Lithofins evil Wexa product for that kinda task.
No and you wouldn't expect it too, even using Wexa wouldn't remove or strip MN Stain Stop or Slate Seal, light product residue would require Wax Off and heavy agitation.

Apologies. I mean Wax Off. I love how it melts your shows if you stand on it by mistake in trainers.

Glad I wasn't the only one that's happened to Jamie   ;)

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
It wont shift excessive amounts of stain stop thats been over applied or slate seal.

You need Lithofins evil Wexa product for that kinda task.
No and you wouldn't expect it too, even using Wexa wouldn't remove or strip MN Stain Stop or Slate Seal, light product residue would require Wax Off and heavy agitation.

Apologies. I mean Wax Off. I love how it melts your shows if you stand on it by mistake in trainers.

Bloody Amateur!  You shouldn't be stood in any slurry when your renovating a floor!!!  Mind you some people will do anything to convince themselves they need new shoes :D :D :D

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407
They weren't my shoes.

It was a carpet cleaner who can only use a squeegee like a carpet wand and work backwards over the area he is working on.