[suffolkclean]

We've lost out on a few EOT cleans recently due to pricing. I priced one yesterday real minger reduced my hourly rate by £7 hr. Came out at £375 including Carpets (stains everywhere)!! She wanted me to go down to £320 which I did and she had a quote for £250. Dosn't seem to be many people now prepared to pay the rates we've been charging up til now. We stand out from the crowd cos we do a high standard clean, have good customer services etc but that dosn't seem to be enough now it does seem like price is the most important thing now.

Is anyone else finding this? I think I'm going to have to lower our prices to get the work in.

[heritagecleaning]

So how many hours work was it for the £375?

[suffolkclean]

How much an hour do you charge for EOT cleans? Oven, Carpet Cleaning & General Cleaning is all charged differently to get to my total figure. I worked eot part out at £18 hr which I think is reasonable.

[DREAM CLEAN]

Hi

What size house did you quote for?
How much do you do on your EOT cleans?
The price seems very steep

[Pristine Clean]

£375, that does sound very steap! Even with carpet cleans and an oven clean.

If you actually have a carpet cleaning machine, I dont mean a rug doctor or a vax. Then the price is roughly about £20 per carpet, £1.50 per step for stairs.

Oven clean tops £60, hob £15

So lets say 5 rooms thats £100 oven and hob £75 total so far £175

Now if you get to do the clean as well then we would give the customer a discount! So tops no more that £300 we would even do the windows in and out and we use WFP Water Fed Poles. not window lean and a clothe! We also have a carpet cleaning mahine.

So I dont think its a case of you having to drop your prices due to the ressesion its a case that you do seem to be expensive no matter how good your service is.

Dave

[suffolkclean]

Pristine clean!! I'm totally insulted by the vax/rug doctor comment also window cleaning with window leane & a cloth - you really do think we're mickey mouse don't you.

It was a 2 bed, hall, stairs, landing, 26m2 lounge & kitchen - The carpets were in a terrible state & yes we would of used a REAL cc machine, bathroom had black mould in all tile grout which had to be removed, grease was dripping from the fronts of kitchen cabinets, grease thick on extractor, tiles, etc. Dust was grey & thick on all doors & skirting boards. Carpets £171 including stairs & working on the stains which takes longer & uses more PROCHEM chemicals, £30 for Oven/Hob & £169 for extractor, deep clean kitchen, bathroom all paintwork including internal windows by my husband whos also a window cleaner - not a bit of kitchen roll & spray!! :

[vacman]

Well i suppose that the EOT cleaning and what-not is simply a case of getting a job done, therefore its all about price, unlike regular domestic work where as long as people are still working they are still wanting the houses cleaned and cleaned (where possible) by the same staff they've had time and again.

We've whittled our staff down to just myself and my sister now, and have stuck to doing just regular light-to-medium domestic work. For the moment it seems to be bringing more profit in than when we had bigger jobs and more staff, although i admit we are both having to do a lot more cleaning than we did before. But with that we've virtually no paperwork to occupy us like before.

The only customers i have lost recently were those who lost their jobs. No one has mentioned the prices we charge, not even the ones we've taken on new recently.

[Griffus]

The market dictates rates, although there must be a cut-off as to how low you can go. There are of course many variables.

We are down around 25% on builders clean rates compared to last year and the added problem is that all trades are down about the same.

We therefore deal with properties in a much worse state which can add as much as 50% on the time; 75% charge for 150% work = half price nightmare!

Estate / Letting Agents will have so many cleaners eager to be called upon that they too can play one against the other until the cost bottoms out. Unless you are desperate to keep in I wouldn't go too low. If you are up against the big boys they will stitch you up and you may win the work but make no money, if not a loss. Know your lowest rate be disciplined.

BTW, £375 does seem a bit pricey for a 2 bed. That said, if you can get that much then good on yer!

Domestic market isn't so bad as there is more mony out there than the media would have us believe.

[Pristine Clean]

Pristine clean!! I'm totally insulted by the vax/rug doctor comment also window cleaning with window leane & a cloth - you really do think we're mickey mouse don't you.

It was a 2 bed, hall, stairs, landing, 26m2 lounge & kitchen - The carpets were in a terrible state & yes we would of used a REAL cc machine, bathroom had black mould in all tile grout which had to be removed, grease was dripping from the fronts of kitchen cabinets, grease thick on extractor, tiles, etc. Dust was grey & thick on all doors & skirting boards. Carpets £171 including stairs & working on the stains which takes longer & uses more PROCHEM chemicals, £30 for Oven/Hob & £169 for extractor, deep clean kitchen, bathroom all paintwork including internal windows by my husband whos also a window cleaner - not a bit of kitchen roll & spray!! :

Suffolkclean,

Firstly please accept my deepest appology. I did not mean to be insutling. After re-reading I can see why you thought that. So I appologise.

However there are many that do use a vax, and window leane,

After you explain the state of ther property, we would still be able to be competitive and a lot lower than what you have priiced. As it was only a 2 bed.

£169 for the deep clean of the kitchen was still expensive to what we would have charged. Deepending on what equipment you use you can be quicker. So yes as said we would probably be able to do it for around £300 and as it was only 2 bed, probably a few quid less than £250 + vat.

However we would have had 3 - 4 staff onsite.

1 cleaning , 1 carpets, 1 windows - 1 Oven and kitchen. Probably still make a profit of £150 +

Them swiftly move onto next job.

[Joe H]

At £320 I would consider that a reasonable price.
The cost of carpet cleaning I agree with ie £171
and if the rest of the job was as bad as you say then I think at £150 then that is a fair price too.

A lot is to do IMO with the perceived recession. The recession is only hitting those that have lost their job or know they are in a danger zone to lose their job.
A lot of people willl have gained ie if they are on a mortgage that is related to interest rate then they will be pounds in the pocket better off.
But with the word recession everyone is looking for a knock down price. How we respond .... well we each have to decide.

Personally, for carpet cleaning I have kept my prices the same. I always negotiate for bigger jobs.

[martin19842]

hi there

the current economic situation, provides as many opportunities as it does problems, pricing is always a personal issue, as you know what you need to cost work at to achieve the revenue levels that your business demands.

so therefore people may find that the relationships they have had with their clients are being tested, in a number of ways, aggresive sales activity from other potential suppliers, the company actively reviewing their supplier costs.

there is however a point at which the client should not drop without jeopardsing the quality of service they will receive.

the important thing is, irrespective of the size of your company or business, make sure that your sales activity levels remain high, so that if you loose a customer or two due to the above, then you can bring on new clients.

tough times, required tough measures and focussed activity to ensure that you remain in your own market. then as things turn you are in a positive and strong position.

regards
  martin

[newbroom]

Hi alll,

Martin is spot with his post especially regarding sales activity. We have actually increased our marketing and sales activity over the last 6 months and we have never been so busy. We have also agreed a price increase with our biggest client. who is very price savvy. Timing is everything particularly has this client site has become a centre of excellemce due mainly to efforts of my staff. Be confident in your service and charge accordingly.

[suffolkclean]

No worries pristine clean - £169 wasn't just for the kitchen it was for all the general cleaning in kitchen, bathroom, h/s/l & 2 bedrooms.

[hotsteam]

I think you have under priced.
I have just done the carpets only on a EOT clean on a 3 bed,bathroom,en-suite,lounge,dining room,hall,cloakroom & 2 flights of stairs for £310  :
Hotsteam

[The Great One]

Hi All

As EOT's is around 98% of my business I thought i would add my tuppence (for what it's worth)
With LA's they have to apply in most cases the TDS scheme, this means they have to go through the TDS to get the money for the work or the landlord pays and gets it back through the TDS.

It also depends on your relationship with the LA, I have known one here for 5 years and they give me a fair bit of work, I price high end for this client and get 99% of the work, just waiting on two paint and cleans, both with the same client.

I have another client who dictates what they will pay and work to be done, with this client I simply work on volume, I sometimes have to ask and extra £30-50 depending how minging it is.

I guess what i am trying to say is that it depends on the circumstances you are working under with the client and if the landlord is dictating what he wants to pay. Also they may be using you as a guide price and then getting 2 other quotes?

Landlords are also legally allowed to charge the tenant for work (quoted) but do not even have to have the work carried out. For instance you can quote say £150 to clean carpets, the landlord can deduct that from the tenant but then not have the work carried out and pocket the money.

Also we are not there on the ground, so any comments left here are done blindly and are personal opinions.

Regards

Martin

[letzclean]

Hi Suffolk Clean,
                         I have been having the exact same problem and have lost a few jobs lately due to pricing. I am based in central London and there is a lot of competition I have been watching Google for the last three months and everyday there are new at least 3 or 4 new  cleaning companies being formed and competing for the same £ note. It may not be as competitive up in Suffolk?
I get a lot of enquiries but not as many conversions and the number one factor is price! One example is a chap who wanted after builders cleaning for 3000 sq ft house in Earls Court must of been worth about £4 million quid he did not want to pay £500 for it to be cleaned 5 bed 5 bath covered in dust. wanted to pay £320 never done the job which I regreted after cause I could of still nicked £150 after wages but it was a big job and if it over ran I would start to loose. The market is very competitive and to compete and survive you have to drop your prices. There are companies that will do the same work as you do for the half the price people will go for it especially as they have to pay after the job is complete.  The price you charged for the job was no way expensive I would of charged £20-£30 quid more

[suffolkclean]

Thanks to the last few people to post on this - when I read the first few I thought I am really going to have to look at my prices.

I am going to reduce prices where I can at the moment to get the work in. Letzclean you sound in a similar position to me - I am not prepared to charge £12 hr for our work as it's not worth the hassle, you do have a lot of competition in London. I've seen some companies in London advertising £7 or £9 hr on their website.

[daysdeepclean]

Don't worry about other peoples prices, carry on concentrating on just being the best!

[Gilbert Sprous]

I think that combined quite a few people have said the same thing in different ways.  Your time is worth what the client is willing to pay.  If you are not willing to do the work for the pay then that job will have to be declined.  As long as you do not advertise prices you are more than allowed to charge different clients different prices.  I have one builder that I do all their cleans now and I do not even put in a quote.  They just tell me where the site is and I invoice them when the job is complete.  They have complete confidence that I will charge them at or less than market rate.  I really am not concerned about what other companies are charging (market rate).  I charge them per hour per employee I put on the job so I am always a few quids in, I dont have to worry about mispricing those jobs.  Other companies that I have been doing builders cleans and EOT cleans want quotes from 3 companies and will wait for the lowest price.  I kind of get a little nervous when I win those, if I am the lowest, have I mispriced? 

But to go back to what I was on about earlier, if you have to lower your price a little for one client you do not have to necessarily do it for the other.  Some times being bold and just asking what it will take to win the business will get an answer, then you decide if the price they are willing to pay is worth you time.

Cheeers

[martin19842]

hi there

knowledge is power.

you need to identify what your client wants,

are they looking to save money, or are they looking for a better service ?

they are the immediate questions !!

better still ask what they are currently paying, or what is in the budget.

dont be scared about asking these basic questions, becuase without at least some of this information you are unable to make an informed decision.

they might be looking to save money on a job, therefore you can look at it in a creative light.
ie at the moment they may be vacuumed every day, and dusted every day, you may suggest that they are vacced and dusted threee times a week, theres a saving there for a start.

so make sure that you have that information, the other thing that this tells youdr client is that you are interested in them, rather than just quoting any price you are taking the time to build that relationship, it all helps.

regards

martin

[suffolkclean]

Thanks for all your help on this - the phones have been exceptionally quiet this week. We have an advert comming out in local magazines with special offers on so hopefully things will pick up for us.

[Griffus]

hi there

are they looking to save money, or are they looking for a better service ?

BOTH!!!!

[martin19842]

hi there

extremely difficult to achieve both a price reduction and better service.

this is where your client relationship is so important.

lets compare this to baked beans.
heinz beans, perceived to be the best but cost say 50p  a can
supermarket premier brand not quite as good say 40p can
supermarket brand 30p per can
value brand 11p a can

its irrelevant of the product or service, but inevitably you get what you pay for.

rest assured the beans seller wont sell heinz for 11p a can ,

so why should you !!!

you need to be very careful with your pricing/service balance.

regards

martin

[Griffus]

hi there

extremely difficult to achieve both a price reduction and better service - True, but this doesn't stop your Client wanting / expecting. Cost reductions are the order of the day currently with larger companies and whilst good relationships are essential between any such parties these relationships mean nothing when directives come dowm from Boardroom level.

this is where your client relationship is so important. - See above

lets compare this to baked beans.
heinz beans, perceived to be the best but cost say 50p  a can
supermarket premier brand not quite as good say 40p can
supermarket brand 30p per can
value brand 11p a can

its irrelevant of the product or service, but inevitably you get what you pay for.  ? What has cleaning got to do with the price of beans? :

rest assured the beans seller wont sell heinz for 11p a can , - This is brand loyalty between the public and a food stuff and and has no bearing.

Know your costs, understand your required margins and take things from there.

so why should you !!!

you need to be very careful with your pricing/service balance. - Unfortunately we are in unusual times. Large companies are only interested in cost. If we can't carry out the work at a certain rate then someone else will happily snap it up. As we are unable to lower standards then we are ultimately forced to choose whether to continue working to existing standards for the less cost (and keep the revenue coming in) or whether to refuse to lower rates and lose work and thus run the risk of major cashflow problems.

Don't get me wrong, what you say is theoretically true but in the current climate a little misguided.



One final point; not all Clients / Customers are the same and I am sure that there are many that will remain loyal. I am merely passing on our recent experiences.

regards

martin

[Pristine Clean]

hi there

extremely difficult to achieve both a price reduction and better service - True, but this doesn't stop your Client wanting / expecting. Cost reductions are the order of the day currently with larger companies and whilst good relationships are essential between any such parties these relationships mean nothing when directives come dowm from Boardroom level.

this is where your client relationship is so important. - See above

lets compare this to baked beans.
heinz beans, perceived to be the best but cost say 50p  a can
supermarket premier brand not quite as good say 40p can
supermarket brand 30p per can
value brand 11p a can

its irrelevant of the product or service, but inevitably you get what you pay for.  ? What has cleaning got to do with the price of beans? :

rest assured the beans seller wont sell heinz for 11p a can , - This is brand loyalty between the public and a food stuff and and has no bearing.

Know your costs, understand your required margins and take things from there.

so why should you !!!

you need to be very careful with your pricing/service balance. - Unfortunately we are in unusual times. Large companies are only interested in cost. If we can't carry out the work at a certain rate then someone else will happily snap it up. As we are unable to lower standards then we are ultimately forced to choose whether to continue working to existing standards for the less cost (and keep the revenue coming in) or whether to refuse to lower rates and lose work and thus run the risk of major cashflow problems.

Don't get me wrong, what you say is theoretically true but in the current climate a little misguided.



One final point; not all Clients / Customers are the same and I am sure that there are many that will remain loyal. I am merely passing on our recent experiences.

regards

martin

Hi Ian,

I have to disagree with the relationship part with your clients. I think it is extremely important that you have a good relationship with your clients.

As for board room level decisions I think the relatonship plays an extremely upmost important part. If they like you, and the company then they are favoured towards you already and are less likely to look else where.

Yes they may need you to lower the price for economic reasons. And to keep in with them you may have to indeed lower prices. There are companies that are indeed suffering and cannot afford what they originally were paying.

As for the Baked beans its scenario to show an example and I am sure some if not most will agree with it as I have seen many posts here just like it and people have agreed in previous posts.

After all he is actually right! Heinz baked beans are better. You do pay for what you get. Its simple.

Would you buy a skoda or would you buy a Jaguar 4.2 supercharged v12. I doubt most would purchase a skoda if they could easily afford the Jaguar if they are honest! As its clearly a better vehicle and the standard of engineering is far more elegant as well as the interior.

As for large companies just intersted in cost, I am not sure on that one. We work for many corporate blue chip companies, forget the top 100 these are in the top 10. And they have not once asked us to drop prices.

We also get to see other quotations that other cleaning companies have sent in. Which is good to see how they lay it out, some go in as far as showing the margins. A complete analyst. Its required when you work for large companies. They want to see everything.
I can assure you we were not the cheapest by far! compared to the quotes we had seen.

I will also admit unless your turnover is adequate enough, most companies will not even let you in the door, and thats only the reception desk. So no husband and wife teams allowed.

So this is where I am comming from relationships are important and high prices do show quality  large companies do not want the cheap supermarket beans in Tescos, they want Heinz and nothing else will do. They know that we wont cut corners, they know we have the machines required with instant backup if there is a failure.

They also know if staff do not turn up we have cover on hand. Immediately.

Also have you seen Jaguar lowering there prices!

Dave

[martin19842]

hi there

that got a couple of responses didnt it.

in the end you make your own decisions, based on what you or your company requires, these are not difficult decisions, you know the costs therefore you make a commerical decision baed upon it.

unusual times, -- yes they are but, believe me there is  still al lot of business out there.

whilst cleaning is not recession proof, its pretty much bullet proof.

clients whether they are commericial or domestic, will always need cleaning, the only decision the client has to make is,

who will do the cleaning, a company, an employee, or themselves.

dont get sucked into the client argument about the unusual times argument, you have to stay positive to win new business.


i have just started as the new sales manager of a cleaning company, and the work is rolling in, long may it continue.

regards
martin

[Griffus]

Our opinions obviously vary.

Incidentally, aren't Jaguar on the brink? 

Best of luck to all of us! 

[Pristine Clean]

Yes, Jaguar are on the brink. But thats nothing to worry about. Most car firms are.. even the banks bank are on the brink.

There is too much history involved with Jaguar to let it fold away. Jaguar the name was first used in 1935. 

So many years to let it waste away.

Dave

[Griffus]

A bit like Rover then

[daysdeepclean]

History's got sod all to do with it.... Woolworths?

[Gilbert Sprous]

Woolworths brought it on themselves.  If Jaguar still put our the same cars that it put out in 1965 it would be looking at going under too.  Gotta change with the times

[Colin Stokes]

Although what we do is slightly different (communal residential cleaning in London for Managing Agents only - from 1 hour a week to 4 full time staff a day) we reviewed our prices in April as we do every year and although much smaller than usual there was an overall rise of about 1.5% in our prices.

So that was a range or rises from £3.25 to £115 per calendar month and not one client has come back and questioned it and all paid their April invoice.

Not sure what that says but thought I would add our experiences.

[martin19842]

hi craig,

got out of builders cleans at the right time, and got drawn into a lot of flood works.

business got dented by our  bankers, and big decisions had to be made and actin taken.

with regard to the company im with now, absolutely brilliant.

totally relaxed and chilled out, cruise control goes on 73mph down the M11, into london, if i get delayed then no problems.

bought one of thoise sat navs that tells you where the traffic is LIVE so that is great.

leave the office at 4.30 if in the office, if not then after last appt.

money is great, and will earn more in one year than two working for myself.


now i know that people will say that molney isnt everything, true i agree.
but
combined with the working environmnet its great.

i now enjoy my weekends again, and have money to spend, so long may it continue

regards
martin

[The Great One]

Hi

Martin, well done on the new job. I remember back when you were 'turning over' some major cash flow.

What is your new job, what are your duties there?

All the best regards

Martin
(The other one)

[martin19842]

hi martin (the other one)

yes im a sales manager for a cleaning company based in london, catchment area inside m25, a niche market, common parts cleaning and gardening services.

principally in charge of the sales for the company, and a controlled expansion of the sales operation, and the development of the company martketing plan, better online presecence, email mailing, corp sponsorship, and arranging and corp marketing events.

Good job, in a balance sheet sound company.

i remember back when we were turning over some good cashflow, in essence you have hit the nail on the head, turniing cashflow, this has always been my point of view om here, many people ask what they can make from the cleaning industry, and my answer is always, your salary is one cost and your profit is another figure.

whilst earning a salary working for myself was substaining, along with the benefits, of vehicles, fuel etc, and expenses, it wasnt in reality delivering the profit element that was wanted, and that is when you have to make some sensible commercial decisions.

i have no doubt that i have been lucky in securing the position i am now in , however the agency that worked hard for me, found that my cv was strong, 5 yeaars of commercial cleaning experience with a cleaing company, and then nearly 5 years of cleaning experience in my own environment.

biggest surprise of all though, is that the money that cleaning companies are paying at the moment as compared to 5 years ago, very very good.

have a great weekend.

regards

martin

[JandS]

When people ask for a price do what I now do, and I got this off the cc side which is my main thing.
Ask them what their budget is or ask them what price they had in mind and take it from there, you'll
usually find some common ground and now and again they'll name a price that's above what you were
thinking of.
Works well with older people.

John