[angela stone]

Hi,

I have a customer who we have cleaned for today.  She has laminate flooring in the living room, dining room and hall and has sent me a msg this evening saying she has a problem with the laminate floor in the hall as it has warped, both her husband and her noticed it as they walked in this evening.  She said that it is due to using excessive water whilst mopping.

I know for defo that excessive water was not used as I mopped it! we have been cleaning for 2.5 years now and know how to mop a floor and we certainly don't leave puddles of water that could cause any damage.  I think it's prob down to heat and the boards expanding.

How would you deal with this? I basically haven't excepted any blame so far as I have 45 other customers all with similar floors which are mopped in the same way and haven't had any problems.

I think she is fishing for a new floor out of me!!

Help!

ange
x

[vacman]

All you really can do is give her the details of your insurance company and let them fight it out. You can argue the point with the client, but how do you intend to prove her wrong?

[APPLEMAIDCLEANING]

Hi,

I have a customer who we have cleaned for today.  She has laminate flooring in the living room, dining room and hall and has sent me a msg this evening saying she has a problem with the laminate floor in the hall as it has warped, both her husband and her noticed it as they walked in this evening.  She said that it is due to using excessive water whilst mopping.

I know for defo that excessive water was not used as I mopped it! we have been cleaning for 2.5 years now and know how to mop a floor and we certainly don't leave puddles of water that could cause any damage.  I think it's prob down to heat and the boards expanding.

How would you deal with this? I basically haven't excepted any blame so far as I have 45 other customers all with similar floors which are mopped in the same way and haven't had any problems.

I think she is fishing for a new floor out of me!!

Help!

ange
x

Is it a new client? for a guess id say you prove we did it! and get testimonial off all your other clients and build a case ready

[John Kelly]

Unfortunately laminate floors are prone to absorbing water through the joints. They are basically compressed cardboard. If excess water was used, which is a risk if mopping, then there would be swelling along the joints of the boards.
If the boards have warped where the floor looks like it has risen up then like you say either due to heat or there could be a water leak which is affecting the back of the boards causing swelling.

[paul beckett]

you want to check if there is a gap between the laminant floor and the wall / skirting board. the gap is for expansion for the flooring, if no gap it is the fault of the floor installer whoever that is  ( maybe them ).  remember the floor only expands width ways not lentgh ways. the gap should be at least 10mm wide  ,
all wood like materials need space to breath ( expand )

  kind regards
         
          paul
 

[sherco]

you want to check if there is a gap between the laminant floor and the wall / skirting board. the gap is for expansion for the flooring, if no gap it is the fault of the floor installer whoever that is  ( maybe them ).  remember the floor only expands width ways not lentgh ways. the gap should be at least 10mm wide  ,
all wood like materials need space to breath ( expand )

  kind regards
         
          paul

This is a very good point Paul has made, im a tiler and even when you lay ceramic or natural stone you always leave an expansion joint around the edges, otherwise the floor could crack.

[vacman]

Ok, i go along with the advice so far BUT who is it who is obliged to prove who is at fault here? I'm talking in legal terms.

Like if i buy a faulty product from a shop, its up to the retailer to prove that there ISN'T a fault, for the first six months. After that it is down to me as a purchaser to prove that there IS a fault.

So in the case of this laminate floor, who is it who has to make the first move? Not who do we think, I mean who for a fact? I honestly don't know myself and were it me, i would be talking to my insurance company. And I'd also be looking to stop working for the client too, generally speaking.

[paul beckett]

it is the installer of the floor who is at fault what ever happens, because it is not fitted to the manufactures instructions of the laminate flooring.  and i bet the laminate details does'nt say anything about not using a mop on it ?,thats a proper way to clean a floor is'nt it. hes trying it on, he must of noticed it before , and why did'nt he mention it before ?. this must be alarms ringing in your head, ditch him asap hes TROUBLE !!!!!!.
      anyway all laminate flooring eventually wraps it depends how its fitted ie gap around edge, underlay, glueing if needed and general workmanship.
if i was you i would wait until he has made an official complant before telling anyone. if they do, get solicitor or insurance to investigate and im sure you would be cleared of any blame, i personally think they wont go that far they are just trying it on, especially if they have to put there money where their mouth is.

anyway thinking about it it must of been warping for ages it does'nt happen overnight. i know what im talking about i used to be a carpenter and i've fitted loads. just try to see who actually installed it,try not to sound like your enquiring about the floor,just cover your ass.  if it was the home owner (probably was ) your safe, because he is not deemed professional in the eye of the law.

what ever you do dont submit, because im pretty sure they dont have a chance.
it may pay to get a free hour with solicitor to see where you stand, only if they take it further. just hang in there.
  i hate people like that, out to get what they can. especially when your doing them a good service.

good luck      paul

[vacman]

Paul, if the client IS trying it on, then yes, i would say i hate that 'type' too.  But so far it's their word against the cleaners and i think the best advice is what you said about seeing a solicitor and/or the insurer once the complaint has been made 'official'.

So, Angela, what is your procedue that you would follow in this instance and have you spoken to your insurance company to ask for their advice? My own insurer does not charge me for advice and they are very helpful.

[vacman]

it is the installer of the floor who is at fault what ever happens, because it is not fitted to the manufactures instructions of the laminate flooring. 

No where in the original message does it mention that the floor has been fitted incorectly. That is merely a possible reason as to why the floor has warped, but we don't know it for a fact. All we know is that the client has told the cleaner that they think the cleaner has damaged the floor by using excess water. That is the fact, the fact that it has been said. As to whether this turns out to be true remains to be seen.
 
Even if the floor has been fitted incorrectly, if water damage can be proven, then that's not the fitters fault, in the same way if knock a bucket of water over a carpet and ruin it.

I know i may be coming across as very pedantic, but the point is that the message was posted in search of a practical answer to this problem, not to seek a list of possible excuses as to why it may not have been the fault of the cleaner.

[APPLEMAIDCLEANING]

it is the installer of the floor who is at fault what ever happens, because it is not fitted to the manufactures instructions of the laminate flooring.  and i bet the laminate details does'nt say anything about not using a mop on it ?,thats a proper way to clean a floor is'nt it. hes trying it on, he must of noticed it before , and why did'nt he mention it before ?. this must be alarms ringing in your head, ditch him asap hes TROUBLE !!!!!!.
      anyway all laminate flooring eventually wraps it depends how its fitted ie gap around edge, underlay, glueing if needed and general workmanship.
if i was you i would wait until he has made an official complant before telling anyone. if they do, get solicitor or insurance to investigate and im sure you would be cleared of any blame, i personally think they wont go that far they are just trying it on, especially if they have to put there money where their mouth is.

anyway thinking about it it must of been warping for ages it does'nt happen overnight. i know what im talking about i used to be a carpenter and i've fitted loads. just try to see who actually installed it,try not to sound like your enquiring about the floor,just cover your ass.  if it was the home owner (probably was ) your safe, because he is not deemed professional in the eye of the law.

what ever you do dont submit, because im pretty sure they dont have a chance.
it may pay to get a free hour with solicitor to see where you stand, only if they take it further. just hang in there.
  i hate people like that, out to get what they can. especially when your doing them a good service.

good luck      paul

I agree on that, get it writing off them, go to a solicitor you might even win on slander!! if they go around saying you did it hen you did not, like paul said it dont happen over night.

[CATMAN]

Hi,

I have come across this before. Mopping will not be the cause.

The is either not enough expansion space under skirting.

The persons property has a void floor that is generaly damp underneath and air bricks are blocked. Heat has caused evaporation, this has no where to go except up through the floorboards into the laminate, up goes the laminate. I have seen an engineered wooded floor bow SIX inches of the floor.

A pipe is leaking underthe floor, again due to the heat, evaporation is taking place.

The person needs to call her insurer, and not blame you. I would drop them like a stone.

Regards

CATMAN

[Pristine Clean]

If she client went to court, depending on the mop used and water then Yes you are at fault!

Did you use a dolly mop and ring the water out? If so you are using the wrong method to clean a laminate floor.

Laminate floor is not meant to get wet, even if there are expansion joints.

The mop that is designed for laminate unsealed laminate that is in hall ways and living rooms is a microfibre flat mob and a very thin spray cleaner.

Kitchen laminate is sealed! Bathroom laninate is sealed! but not living room or hallway.

So she could have a case but very hard to prove but if I were you I would inform your insurance company! as it sounds she is trying to get a new floor after your hard work.

all the best


Dave

[paul beckett]

anyway angela stone i hope it all goes ok, and could you keep us informed,
 just try to get all facts in place before proceeding, and just drop this git asap for your own sake, not before you get all the evidence, just think before you react

kind regards  paul

[daniel worgan]

Laminate flooring that gets wet excessivly will blow on the joints.This means that unless you have completely flooded a laminate excees water will only make the lips of the jointed edges blow.
When fitted a gap under skirtings or quads should be left...usually approx 10mm.Also check the doorways as many fitters still cut around door frames and then use silicone sealant to bridge the gaps...this is totally wrong as door frames should be undercut and boards should be slid under (even though it is difficult with click lock systems).
If the boards are warping you can bet your life that the fiiting is wrong,the boards have a tendancy to move that is why expansion gaps should be incorporated.
Go back and look at the floor..check the boards up against the door architraves,if they are tight this is probably where the problem arises.Explain this to the customer and take pictures of where the floor is rising.
Hope you sort it out.......by the way i used to be a wood floor layer in Perth Australia...