[Soupy]

Until recently we sent out a strongly worded letter before the eventual write off of the debt. We had a large (£700) unpaid debt that was not responding so I thought I'd give Thomas Higgins a go, I received payment 3 days later.

Now we've decided to go down this route for all overdue customers, so far it's got a 100% hit rate although it costs £10 per letter sent out (it's more expensive here (Scotland) for the first letter as far as I can work out), it's better than writing it off.

I have found that the portal thingymajig on the TH website is fairly straightforward and should you need to make a decision on whether to proceed to court it maps out the cost clearly so your decision can be well informed. I reckon if I ever have to, I'll be going all the way to court out of principal although obviously each case may differ.

Interested to see how many of you use it and how far you'd be willing to go with it.

[Stoots]

I have been down the court threats loads of times.

I find if you send the letter maybe half will cough up.

The rest won't do then you have to decide if it's worth pursuing through court.

I had one bell  end defend the claim . He knew full well we had been but said to the court we hadn't and he would defend it in court.

It was £12 so rather than take a day off and go to court which I may or not have won I wrote it off but made a mental note that if the opportunity arises I will have my vengeance in this life or the next. 

[nathankaye]

I have been down the court threats loads of times.

I find if you send the letter maybe half will cough up.

The rest won't do then you have to decide if it's worth pursuing through court.

I had one bell  end defend the claim . He knew full well we had been but said to the court we hadn't and he would defend it in court.

It was £12 so rather than take a day off and go to court which I may or not have won I wrote it off but made a mental note that if the opportunity arises I will have my vengeance in this life or the next. 

He called your bluff mate and you succumbed.

It depends on the debt but for the principle I would out last the client.
Another company tried doing the same to my wife over a false debt many years ago and she was a mess but I told her to stick to her guns and the much larger company relied on people panicking and paying rather than the hassle of sorting it out. In this case the company knew it was fraudulent but they took it to the very last part and then pulled the plug. We're now suing them haha as it turns out it's back fired with them!

But many won't go the distance because they know they ain't got a leg to stand on. So the letter it is for me

[Simon Trapani]

I’ve never had any customer owe that sort of large amount (£700) so no I wouldn’t write that off. But for average residential then I just write it off. Not worth the effort.

[andyM]

I reckon if I ever have to, I'll be going all the way to court out of principal although obviously each case may differ.

You have surprised me there actually Soupy.
Im only a sole trader one man band numpty who would in the vast majority of cases write a debt off as they never usually get large enough to fret about.
I'd take into account my time having to chase the debt, costs incurred and losing time from work to attend court etc. and cut my losses.
Although the £700 debt you mentioned I would certainly pursue the available avenues in order to collect.

I had you down as the type of business man who would look at a debt in the cold, hard light of day, do the maths and decide if financially it were worth while chasing or not?
Rather than go all the way to court "out of principal".

Then send one of the lads round to egg their windows....
 

[Smudger]

Anything over £100 I would take all the way - under this I’d do the letter then see what happens

We had a large debt - just shy of 10k and I used a local solicitor who on reflection was pretty cr@p as they insisted we needed to negotiate before going to court needless to say their  best offer was £400 so we moved it forward but the day before it went to court they went into liquidation so got nothing

When investigating further the company had nearly 1 million in assets but 8 months later owed over 2 million.
The guy runs several other companies and several “backers” who ha e done this a number of times before

If anyone is more than 30 days late it will be TH letter with a very quick follow up to court ( unfortunately I did t know TH did more than just writing the letters 😢 )

So take the barstewards to court but don’t hang around!!

Darran

[dazmond]

Anything over £100 I would take all the way - under this I’d do the letter then see what happens

We had a large debt - just shy of 10k and I used a local solicitor who on reflection was pretty cr@p as they insisted we needed to negotiate before going to court needless to say their  best offer was £400 so we moved it forward but the day before it went to court they went into liquidation so got nothing

When investigating further the company had nearly 1 million in assets but 8 months later owed over 2 million.
The guy runs several other companies and several “backers” who ha e done this a number of times before

If anyone is more than 30 days late it will be TH letter with a very quick follow up to court ( unfortunately I did t know TH did more than just writing the letters 😢 )

So take the barstewards to court but don’t hang around!!

Darran

so you lost £10,000?jeesh.......i bet that stung......

i write  my debts off after a while of chasing.....my debts are very small ones.i usually have to write off £50-£100 annually.thats all so its not worth getting stressed about...

[John Mart]

My own composition. Only failed once and it was on £20 so let it go.

[Johnny B]

I don't chase bad debts, but I don't write them off either.

i keep a note and when the offenders ask me to clean their windows again (a surprising number do) I tell them I'd be very happy to ... once they have paid me what they owe plus money in advance for the clean. Most don't proceed but it's priceless to see their faces when they know I'm no longer their fool.

John

[Shrek]

I don’t really think it’s a good thing to put on an open forum that Windy’s just forget about it. A lot of people still consider us as gypsies and pay because they’re scared 😦 .
I for one go round and put dog poo in their  letter box and squash it all around ( with my blue doctors gloves on of course) - then every time they get mail , it’s covered in $hite

[andyM]

I don’t really think it’s a good thing to put on an open forum that Windy’s just forget about it. A lot of people still consider us as gypsies and pay because they’re scared 😦 .

Yes I know, and it's the one's that don't pay me for Tarmacing their drive that really upset me.

[Soupy]

You have surprised me there actually Soupy.
Im only a sole trader one man band numpty who would in the vast majority of cases write a debt off as they never usually get large enough to fret about.
I'd take into account my time having to chase the debt, costs incurred and losing time from work to attend court etc. and cut my losses.
Although the £700 debt you mentioned I would certainly pursue the available avenues in order to collect.

I had you down as the type of business man who would look at a debt in the cold, hard light of day, do the maths and decide if financially it were worth while chasing or not?
Rather than go all the way to court "out of principal".

Then send one of the lads round to egg their windows....

You could be right. I've never taken anyone to court and I've not had to make the decision since first using TH a few weeks back.

Residential window cleaning being the low ticket service that it is we're always going to get charlatans who take advantage of the exposed position we're in. I think it's time that stopped.

[Soupy]

Some folk get a bit miffed at the letter:

Hi there,

I have just came come from working away to a solicitors letter from yourselves.

I have paid the money but no longer want my windows cleaned from Soupy's.

I have never not paid our bill! Yes late as I work away. My wife does not deal with bills as we have a boy with special needs. It’s a shame you took this route.

So I do not expect to see you back.

Regards

Mr Miffed

[Smudger]

Love it

I wonder how Mr miffed would feel if his wages were always late ?

Darran

[Soupy]

Love it

I wonder how Mr miffed would feel if his wages were always late ?

Darran

£85 he was due, from as far back as February. He'd had weekly payment reminders since March.

He would have paid eventually but that's not the point is it?

[John Mart]

Some folk get a bit miffed at the letter:

Hi there,

I have just came come from working away to a solicitors letter from yourselves.

I have paid the money but no longer want my windows cleaned from Soupy's.

I have never not paid our bill! Yes late as I work away. My wife does not deal with bills as we have a boy with special needs. It’s a shame you took this route.

So I do not expect to see you back.

Regards

Mr Miffed

Once we go down the letter before action route they are removed anyway as in my opinion the relationship is untenable. I hope you replied with "you can't sack us because we've already sacked you!" I admit I often do that. 

[Soupy]

Once we go down the letter before action route they are removed anyway as in my opinion the relationship is untenable. I hope you replied with "you can't sack us because we've already sacked you!" I admit I often do that. 

Not at all, I responded in my typical polite yet condescending tone.

[John Mart]

Here's mine - works just about every time.

TAKE NOTICE that according to our records the sum of £50 is overdue for payment despite previous reminders.

Unless payment is made to the above address within FOURTEEN days legal action to recover the debt will be taken against you without further notice. This may affect your credit rating. The costs associated with legal proceedings must also be paid by you in addition to the debt.

A printed copy of the statements are attached. I look forward to your immediate payment.

[Soupy]

50% willing to write off the debt.

How many other industries would you think the write off rate is that high??

My guess is none.

[Marc Stock]

I never write off debts.

I once used to clean the windows for a very well known prestige car brand in brooklands; well known for their large luxurious sporty coupe's; and luxury suvs.

All over 100k.

They got very late with payments and i halted the service; charged them interest in accordance with the late payments of commercial debts act and put things in action to get the money collected by debt collectors. I didnt threaten to do it; i just gave them notice that if i didnt get the payment along with the interest due and collection fees i had put on myself; it would go to debt collection.

It did. And they paid up. No fuss.

If any company asks me now to quote; and they are ltd i do my due dill first. Check companies house; see how long they have been trading; do they have a history of changed trading names; are the directors active in 10 other 'companies' have they ever been struck off etc are there any charging orders outstanding it really only takes 10 mins to check.

I recently had a company ask me to quote for them; i asked for thier company reg number did a check and found a few things that were a bit risky; so i said to them payment upfront on contract works and they agreed.

[Kev Martin]

There is no need to write any debt off regardless of how small.  Essentially if you enter into a contract written or verbal with a customer and the service / job is performed as requested then you should be paid.  If you don't get paid t is tantamount to theft in my opinion whether it's is a £5 or £5000.  There are professional scammers out there who rely on certain traders writing small amounts off.   I pay all my debts on or before time and I expect the same from my customers, I don't think that is too much to ask is it?

[Dry Clean]

50% willing to write off the debt.

How many other industries would you think the write off rate is that high??

My guess is none.

You didn't put an amount on your poll, I ticked the write it off which would obviously depend on the amount owed.

[John Mart]

50% willing to write off the debt.

How many other industries would you think the write off rate is that high??

My guess is none.

You didn't put an amount on your poll, I ticked the write it off which would obviously depend on the amount owed.

Same. £20 you basically have to write off if no payment is received after a letter before action is ignored.

[Soupy]

50% willing to write off the debt.

How many other industries would you think the write off rate is that high??

My guess is none.

You didn't put an amount on your poll, I ticked the write it off which would obviously depend on the amount owed.

You should open a shop.

I'd be a regular.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Big well done to those who have gone out there way to win a debt battle.  It will help our industry out to stop those few rogue customers who rip off window cleaners.

If you just write it off then they win the battle and make you look like a mug.   They then move onto another windy to try the same stunt as they know it works and carry on down the line until they are pulled down the legal route with huge extra costs by a windy who stands his ground and makes the cust think twice about doing it again.

If you lazily write them off then you're not just letting yourself down you're letting the rest of us down too.  Man up, regardless of the amount as its about principle.

[John Mart]

50% willing to write off the debt.

How many other industries would you think the write off rate is that high??

My guess is none.

You didn't put an amount on your poll, I ticked the write it off which would obviously depend on the amount owed.

You should open a shop.

I'd be a regular.

That's very good! 

[Perfect Windows]

It's not about the principle, it's about the gamble.

If I need to spend a couple of hours of my life and risk losing a minimum half day's earnings if they defend all the way to court (for say £20) it's daft to chase the debt.

The same effort for a £5,000 debt would be a different story.

Vin

[Soupy]

It's not about the principle, it's about the gamble.

If I need to spend a couple of hours of my life and risk losing a minimum half day's earnings if they defend all the way to court (for say £20) it's daft to chase the debt.

The same effort for a £5,000 debt would be a different story.

Vin

I fully agree.

Just annoying though innit? If we all took a zero tolerance approach perhaps it'd happen less often.

I ask again

50% willing to write off the debt.

How many other industries would you think the write off rate is that high??

[Perfect Windows]

In skyscraper construction primary contractors, 0%
In individual pea sales, 100%

Vin

[Missing Link]

You've got a big operation, Soups, so I bet you get a lot more than the average sole trader's share of debtors.

And if you've got wages that need to be paid on time, I can understand why you've a less tolerant attitude than someone like me, who would be too lazy to go chasing up debtors.

One thing I do is make sure I have some kind of 'direct' contact details; facebook (easy to find if I have their name) or mobile or home phone number and I'll message, text or phone them.

The only debtor I can remember getting narky with was a Russian lady, big posh house, who only paid after two cleans after I messaged her via facebook, which was becoming a regular occurance.  The last time I did this she complained that we'd only spent 'five minutes' at her house and the job wasn't as good as what it once was (which was probably true if I'm to be honest; we do splash 'n' dash), and I took that on the chin.

But when I checked the payment she'd only paid for one clean. 

I just dropped the account without telling her.

[dazmond]

There is no need to write any debt off regardless of how small.  Essentially if you enter into a contract written or verbal with a customer and the service / job is performed as requested then you should be paid.  If you don't get paid t is tantamount to theft in my opinion whether it's is a £5 or £5000.  There are professional scammers out there who rely on certain traders writing small amounts off.   I pay all my debts on or before time and I expect the same from my customers, I don't think that is too much to ask is it?

what happens when they die owing you money?a customer of mine died a few weeks ago.apparently she was dead for 3 or 4 weeks before anyone noticed...poor woman.....should i try and get a family member to cough up?......no ill write it off......

[dazmond]

Big well done to those who have gone out there way to win a debt battle.  It will help our industry out to stop those few rogue customers who rip off window cleaners.

If you just write it off then they win the battle and make you look like a mug.   They then move onto another windy to try the same stunt as they know it works and carry on down the line until they are pulled down the legal route with huge extra costs by a windy who stands his ground and makes the cust think twice about doing it again.

If you lazily write them off then you're not just letting yourself down you're letting the rest of us down too.  Man up, regardless of the amount as its about principle.

i really cant be arsed chasing small debts after a while so i write it off...its only very small amounts....it makes me feel better too.......this year its around £25.......2 of them are dead customers! (i shot them both for non payment!)

[The Jester of Wibbly]

There is no need to write any debt off regardless of how small.  Essentially if you enter into a contract written or verbal with a customer and the service / job is performed as requested then you should be paid.  If you don't get paid t is tantamount to theft in my opinion whether it's is a £5 or £5000.  There are professional scammers out there who rely on certain traders writing small amounts off.   I pay all my debts on or before time and I expect the same from my customers, I don't think that is too much to ask is it?

what happens when they die owing you money?a customer of mine died a few weeks ago.apparently she was dead for 3 or 4 weeks before anyone noticed...poor woman.....should i try and get a family member to cough up?......no ill write it off......

If they die simply let it go out of respect. I had a few this year already, sad really.  Family were so grateful.

[alank]

I would never chase a customer's family for a window cleaning bill after they had just lost a loved one. I would show them a bit of respect. Had some customer's on the books for years and over that time have paid every month without fail say £20 a month for 15 years so they have paid over £3,500 for my services over that time I don't think I would chase down that last twenty quid as I wouldn't want my existing customers to think I was like that.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

I would never chase a customer's family for a window cleaning bill after they had just lost a loved one. I would show them a bit of respect. Had some customer's on the books for years and over that time have paid every month without fail say £20 a month for 15 years so they have paid over £3,500 for my services over that time I don't think I would chase down that last twenty quid as I wouldn't want my existing customers to think I was like that.

Agree.

It hits me hard when I hear news of a customer passing away.  Also had a few who had their spouse die too which was always upsetting when being informed by the widow

I remember one customer family member congratulating me for letting the bill go out of respect.  They told me most big companies like sky and mobile providers still expecded contract term to be paid.

Goes to show its the small local traders that are more personable

[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

We put the muck back on the windows now did 14 last year and 8 this year so far ,

You get a massive kick out of doing it and as if yet not one of them have dared come and and say anything

The lads now look forward to doing it as they get a great laff out of it

[John Mart]

We put the muck back on the windows now did 14 last year and 8 this year so far ,

You get a massive kick out of doing it and as if yet not one of them have dared come and and say anything

The lads now look forward to doing it as they get a great laff out of it

I think you ought to change your staff if they get a kick out of it. If I asked one of mine to do that I’d expect him to refuse to do it. Don’t get me wrong, I understand the sentiment, but you shouldn’t ask employees to act in that way. You should do it yourself if you think it’s the right approach.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

https://youtu.be/RcxILlCcoB4

[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

We put the muck back on the windows now did 14 last year and 8 this year so far ,

You get a massive kick out of doing it and as if yet not one of them have dared come and and say anything

The lads now look forward to doing it as they get a great laff out of it

I think you ought to change your staff if they get a kick out of it. If I asked one of mine to do that I’d expect him to refuse to do it. Don’t get me wrong, I understand the sentiment, but you shouldn’t ask employees to act in that way. You should do it yourself if you think it’s the right approach.

My staff are all family members now and they volunteer to do it

They hate theifing scum which theses people are at the end of the day when you boil everything down to it

As a family run company your not only ripping me off but your taking food of my family's table and money from there wage packets , I can't get my head round people on here just letting them get away with it ,

Would the same people just let someone run down the street after pinching there slx out the van Saying oh I can't be bothered ? Or would you run after them and crown them over the head with it ?

[Soupy]

In skyscraper construction primary contractors, 0%
In individual pea sales, 100%

Vin

I've been chased by large companies for small amounts before. Not for individual peas mind but they'd almost certainly be losing money taking me to court.

It's not about the principle, it's about the gamble.

Risk going to court, losing and ruining your credit rating or pay the £20

[Perfect Windows]

You don't ruin your credit report by losing in court. If you pay within 21 days there's no record.

Vin

[Soupy]

You don't ruin your credit report by losing in court. If you pay within 21 days there's no record.

Vin

Ok then Mr Pedantic.

I've been chased by large companies for small amounts before. Not for individual peas mind but they'd almost certainly be losing money taking me to court.

It's not about the principle, it's about the gamble.

Risk not paying and ruining your credit rating or pay the £20

[Dry Clean]

You don't ruin your credit report by losing in court. If you pay within 21 days there's no record.

Vin

Ok then Mr Pedantic.

I've been chased by large companies for small amounts before. Not for individual peas mind but they'd almost certainly be losing money taking me to court.

It's not about the principle, it's about the gamble.

Risk not paying and ruining your credit rating or pay the £20

Do you honestly think the people who rip people off for small amounts care about their credit rating ? these are either serial rip off merchants who will have  long since lost their credit rating when they didnt pay back what they owed to the club book and similar or people down on their luck who have got into debt and realise their credit rating is well beyond saving.

[Dry Clean]

Big companies who sell goods on credit tend to allow for a percentage of debt loss by adding it to their prices, if the debt is over a certain limit they will sell it on for a fraction of its worth and if small it gets dropped and the customer ends up on a blacklist.
They know its not worth the time and money chasing small amounts through the courts to be awarded a pound a week which they
will still have to chase.

[dazmond]

if you factor in a miniscule amount of debt not being paid every year(and expect it)you ll be a happier window cleaner....

i dont have any big contracts and i dont have any customers who ever owe me more than £200-£300.....

my write off debt amount  is usually around £50-£100 a year.not worth worrying about....

[Splash & dash]

You don't ruin your credit report by losing in court. If you pay within 21 days there's no record.

Vin

If they get a ccj against there name they do and it’s difficult to get it removed affects people for years , I have a customer going to court and they will loose Ime looking forward to them getting the ccj as he will also loose his job workes for the armed forces Evan they have told him to pay up but he’s ignored everyone so far

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Decades ago I used to work in retail as an area manager for a large national company.

Company Policy was to always procecute a shoplifters no mater what the value was to help reduce future shrinkage costs. Word got around the bad boys so they new they were more at risk if caught. Images of a shoplifter were shared around the region and other local retailers to help each other combat these crimes.

Shrinkage costs were always added to the sale cost. So it's also  an insult to your regular paying customers having to pick up the tab.

So if word gets around  that you don't chase debts then you're going to be easy prey.

"Hey Mrs Jones, I booked Mr blogs window Clean and this is how to get a free clean. He let's you off paying really easily. Try it. "

[Perfect Windows]

You don't ruin your credit report by losing in court. If you pay within 21 days there's no record.

Vin

If they get a ccj against there name they do and it’s difficult to get it removed affects people for years , I have a customer going to court and they will loose Ime looking forward to them getting the ccj as he will also loose his job workes for the armed forces Evan they have told him to pay up but he’s ignored everyone so far

If the case goes against the defendant then provided they pay the bill and all costs within 21 days, no CCJ is entered against their name.

Vin

[The Jester of Wibbly]

From my understanding a ccj is not issued if they accept they owe the money and pay within the month.

If they contest the application and lose they will be issued a ccj regardless.

[Soupy]

Big companies who sell goods on credit tend to allow for a percentage of debt loss by adding it to their prices, if the debt is over a certain limit they will sell it on for a fraction of its worth and if small it gets dropped and the customer ends up on a blacklist.
They know its not worth the time and money chasing small amounts through the courts to be awarded a pound a week which they
will still have to chase.

Great. Do that then.

[Dry Clean]

Big companies who sell goods on credit tend to allow for a percentage of debt loss by adding it to their prices, if the debt is over a certain limit they will sell it on for a fraction of its worth and if small it gets dropped and the customer ends up on a blacklist.
They know its not worth the time and money chasing small amounts through the courts to be awarded a pound a week which they
will still have to chase.

Great. Do that then.

Stop crying Soupy (roll eyes), I would say with confidence that there isn't a single shiner on this forum who hasn't walked away from a small debt at least once in their window cleaning career,  that said  in 12 years of cleaning windows I could count the number of non payers on one hand so its a hardly something to be concerned about.

[Soupy]

Stop crying Soupy (roll eyes), I would say with confidence that there isn't a single shiner on this forum who hasn't walked away from a small debt at least once in their window cleaning career,  that said  in 12 years of cleaning windows I could count the number of non payers on one hand so its a hardly something to be concerned about.

I've been doing it routinely for twenty years.

Not any more.

[John Mart]

Stop crying Soupy (roll eyes), I would say with confidence that there isn't a single shiner on this forum who hasn't walked away from a small debt at least once in their window cleaning career,  that said  in 12 years of cleaning windows I could count the number of non payers on one hand so its a hardly something to be concerned about.

I've been doing it routinely for twenty years.

Not any more.

Yeah, but you're not going to go to court for £15 surely?

[Kev Martin]

Stop crying Soupy (roll eyes), I would say with confidence that there isn't a single shiner on this forum who hasn't walked away from a small debt at least once in their window cleaning career,  that said  in 12 years of cleaning windows I could count the number of non payers on one hand so its a hardly something to be concerned about.

I've been doing it routinely for twenty years.

Not any more.

Yeah, but you're not going to go to court for £15 surely?

Why not?  If you are sure of your facts it costs nothing to take someone to Court.  It takes us around 10 minutes to raise the necessary documentation to take someone to court, yes there are associated costs but I know we are going to get them back + Interest + Expenses.   So if someone who owes you a relatively small amount of money,  allows it to go that far,  they are either Stupid, or they think you are not serious.  The mistake most people make is they threaten and then don't follow it through and thats fatal.

[John Mart]

Stop crying Soupy (roll eyes), I would say with confidence that there isn't a single shiner on this forum who hasn't walked away from a small debt at least once in their window cleaning career,  that said  in 12 years of cleaning windows I could count the number of non payers on one hand so its a hardly something to be concerned about.

I've been doing it routinely for twenty years.

Not any more.

Yeah, but you're not going to go to court for £15 surely?

Why not?  If you are sure of your facts it costs nothing to take someone to Court.  It takes us around 10 minutes to raise the necessary documentation to take someone to court, yes there are associated costs but I know we are going to get them back + Interest + Expenses.   So if someone who owes you a relatively small amount of money,  allows it to go that far,  they are either Stupid, or they think you are not serious.  The mistake most people make is they threaten and then don't follow it through and thats fatal.

You'd never get the time back or the stress it caused. To be honest you're better putting the dirt back as suggested above. I agree with the sentiment however.

[dazmond]

go to court for £15.....really?

some of you lead very sad lives.......its not worth it.....its only money.......forget about it and write it off......

[dazmond]

just think of all the things over the years you ve got for free/or at a bargain price,or a windfall etc,etc every time you end up with non payment of a debt(or out of pocket for whatever reason).....you ll find they balance out over the years.....itll make you feel better too.......(unless its a 10k debt!!)

[Soupy]

Stop crying Soupy (roll eyes), I would say with confidence that there isn't a single shiner on this forum who hasn't walked away from a small debt at least once in their window cleaning career,  that said  in 12 years of cleaning windows I could count the number of non payers on one hand so its a hardly something to be concerned about.

I've been doing it routinely for twenty years.

Not any more.

Yeah, but you're not going to go to court for £15 surely?

Probably not for £15 but my average bad debt is much higher than that. Our company policies would mean that a bad debt of £15 would be neigh on impossible.

I've never been through the process yet so I'm unsure if I even need to be present in court using TH.

[Splash & dash]

You don't ruin your credit report by losing in court. If you pay within 21 days there's no record.

Vin

If they get a ccj against there name they do and it’s difficult to get it removed affects people for years , I have a customer going to court and they will loose Ime looking forward to them getting the ccj as he will also loose his job workes for the armed forces Evan they have told him to pay up but he’s ignored everyone so far

If the case goes against the defendant then provided they pay the bill and all costs within 21 days, no CCJ is entered against their name.

Vin

Ime no legal expert but that’s not the understanding I have of it I will be talking to solicitor next week so will get him to explaine it

[Kev Martin]

Stop crying Soupy (roll eyes), I would say with confidence that there isn't a single shiner on this forum who hasn't walked away from a small debt at least once in their window cleaning career,  that said  in 12 years of cleaning windows I could count the number of non payers on one hand so its a hardly something to be concerned about.

I've been doing it routinely for twenty years.

Not any more.

Yeah, but you're not going to go to court for £15 surely?

Why not?  If you are sure of your facts it costs nothing to take someone to Court.  It takes us around 10 minutes to raise the necessary documentation to take someone to court, yes there are associated costs but I know we are going to get them back + Interest + Expenses.   So if someone who owes you a relatively small amount of money,  allows it to go that far,  they are either Stupid, or they think you are not serious.  The mistake most people make is they threaten and then don't follow it through and thats fatal.

You'd never get the time back or the stress it caused. To be honest you're better putting the dirt back as suggested above. I agree with the sentiment however.

So at what point do you go to court? 
How much has to be involved? 
It's not the money with me it  is the principle!!! 

The customer asks me to do something and I agree.  That is an agreement whether verbal or in writing, an integral part of that agreement is the payment regardless of how big or small.  If they don't pay they have reneged on that agreement and failed to honour their side of it.
Look at it with the boot on the other foot if they only owe you £15 why not just pay it as agreed?  Why allow themselves to have reminders, warnings and threats?  Ask yourself Did they ever intend to Pay?  Or just take the pi$$!  There is No difference to me, an agreement is an agreement £15 0r £1500 theft is theft.   If you don't believe me try going into a shop and nick £15 worth of goods and tell the Magistrate it was only £15 why doesn't the shop just write it off!

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Stop crying Soupy (roll eyes), I would say with confidence that there isn't a single shiner on this forum who hasn't walked away from a small debt at least once in their window cleaning career,  that said  in 12 years of cleaning windows I could count the number of non payers on one hand so its a hardly something to be concerned about.

I've been doing it routinely for twenty years.

Not any more.

Yeah, but you're not going to go to court for £15 surely?

Why not?  If you are sure of your facts it costs nothing to take someone to Court.  It takes us around 10 minutes to raise the necessary documentation to take someone to court, yes there are associated costs but I know we are going to get them back + Interest + Expenses.   So if someone who owes you a relatively small amount of money,  allows it to go that far,  they are either Stupid, or they think you are not serious.  The mistake most people make is they threaten and then don't follow it through and thats fatal.

You'd never get the time back or the stress it caused. To be honest you're better putting the dirt back as suggested above. I agree with the sentiment however.

So at what point do you go to court? 
How much has to be involved? 
It's not the money with me it  is the principle!!! 

The customer asks me to do something and I agree.  That is an agreement whether verbal or in writing, an integral part of that agreement is the payment regardless of how big or small.  If they don't pay they have reneged on that agreement and failed to honour their side of it.
Look at it with the boot on the other foot if they only owe you £15 why not just pay it as agreed?  Why allow themselves to have reminders, warnings and threats?  Ask yourself Did they ever intend to Pay?  Or just take the pi$$!  There is No difference to me, an agreement is an agreement £15 0r £1500 theft is theft.   If you don't believe me try going into a shop and nick £15 worth of goods and tell the Magistrate it was only £15 why doesn't the shop just write it off!

Completly agree.  But there are too many wc that wants the easier option, don't see the bigger picture for our industry or are too scared

[Kev Martin]

Stop crying Soupy (roll eyes), I would say with confidence that there isn't a single shiner on this forum who hasn't walked away from a small debt at least once in their window cleaning career,  that said  in 12 years of cleaning windows I could count the number of non payers on one hand so its a hardly something to be concerned about.

I've been doing it routinely for twenty years.

Not any more.

Yeah, but you're not going to go to court for £15 surely?

Why not?  If you are sure of your facts it costs nothing to take someone to Court.  It takes us around 10 minutes to raise the necessary documentation to take someone to court, yes there are associated costs but I know we are going to get them back + Interest + Expenses.   So if someone who owes you a relatively small amount of money,  allows it to go that far,  they are either Stupid, or they think you are not serious.  The mistake most people make is they threaten and then don't follow it through and thats fatal.

You'd never get the time back or the stress it caused. To be honest you're better putting the dirt back as suggested above. I agree with the sentiment however.

It doesn't cause me any stress to take a thief to court and if you were caught putting the dirt back on you would probably get done for criminal damage.  Personally I would use their windows for practice with my professional catapult then you solve two problems, no more window cleaning issues for them, and they can't rip anyone else off.

[John Mart]

Stop crying Soupy (roll eyes), I would say with confidence that there isn't a single shiner on this forum who hasn't walked away from a small debt at least once in their window cleaning career,  that said  in 12 years of cleaning windows I could count the number of non payers on one hand so its a hardly something to be concerned about.

I've been doing it routinely for twenty years.

Not any more.

Yeah, but you're not going to go to court for £15 surely?

Why not?  If you are sure of your facts it costs nothing to take someone to Court.  It takes us around 10 minutes to raise the necessary documentation to take someone to court, yes there are associated costs but I know we are going to get them back + Interest + Expenses.   So if someone who owes you a relatively small amount of money,  allows it to go that far,  they are either Stupid, or they think you are not serious.  The mistake most people make is they threaten and then don't follow it through and thats fatal.

You'd never get the time back or the stress it caused. To be honest you're better putting the dirt back as suggested above. I agree with the sentiment however.

So at what point do you go to court? 
How much has to be involved? 
It's not the money with me it  is the principle!!! 

The customer asks me to do something and I agree.  That is an agreement whether verbal or in writing, an integral part of that agreement is the payment regardless of how big or small.  If they don't pay they have reneged on that agreement and failed to honour their side of it.
Look at it with the boot on the other foot if they only owe you £15 why not just pay it as agreed?  Why allow themselves to have reminders, warnings and threats?  Ask yourself Did they ever intend to Pay?  Or just take the pi$$!  There is No difference to me, an agreement is an agreement £15 0r £1500 theft is theft.   If you don't believe me try going into a shop and nick £15 worth of goods and tell the Magistrate it was only £15 why doesn't the shop just write it off!

One is criminal and the other is civil. No comparison. Whilst I agree in principle with every word, it’s not worth the stress for a piddling amount. I probably would see it through for £100 or so. The problem I’ve had with these is when you don’t take the name of the customer. It’s rare but it does happen and then you can’t do anything.

[Soupy]

Stop crying Soupy (roll eyes), I would say with confidence that there isn't a single shiner on this forum who hasn't walked away from a small debt at least once in their window cleaning career,  that said  in 12 years of cleaning windows I could count the number of non payers on one hand so its a hardly something to be concerned about.

I've been doing it routinely for twenty years.

Not any more.

Yeah, but you're not going to go to court for £15 surely?

Why not?  If you are sure of your facts it costs nothing to take someone to Court.  It takes us around 10 minutes to raise the necessary documentation to take someone to court, yes there are associated costs but I know we are going to get them back + Interest + Expenses.   So if someone who owes you a relatively small amount of money,  allows it to go that far,  they are either Stupid, or they think you are not serious.  The mistake most people make is they threaten and then don't follow it through and thats fatal.

You'd never get the time back or the stress it caused. To be honest you're better putting the dirt back as suggested above. I agree with the sentiment however.

So at what point do you go to court? 
How much has to be involved? 
It's not the money with me it  is the principle!!! 

The customer asks me to do something and I agree.  That is an agreement whether verbal or in writing, an integral part of that agreement is the payment regardless of how big or small.  If they don't pay they have reneged on that agreement and failed to honour their side of it.
Look at it with the boot on the other foot if they only owe you £15 why not just pay it as agreed?  Why allow themselves to have reminders, warnings and threats?  Ask yourself Did they ever intend to Pay?  Or just take the pi$$!  There is No difference to me, an agreement is an agreement £15 0r £1500 theft is theft.   If you don't believe me try going into a shop and nick £15 worth of goods and tell the Magistrate it was only £15 why doesn't the shop just write it off!

One is criminal and the other is civil. No comparison. Whilst I agree in principle with every word, it’s not worth the stress for a piddling amount. I probably would see it through for £100 or so. The problem I’ve had with these is when you don’t take the name of the customer. It’s rare but it does happen and then you can’t do anything.

I don't clean any windows without a name. Not ever.

[John Mart]

Stop crying Soupy (roll eyes), I would say with confidence that there isn't a single shiner on this forum who hasn't walked away from a small debt at least once in their window cleaning career,  that said  in 12 years of cleaning windows I could count the number of non payers on one hand so its a hardly something to be concerned about.

I've been doing it routinely for twenty years.

Not any more.

Yeah, but you're not going to go to court for £15 surely?

Why not?  If you are sure of your facts it costs nothing to take someone to Court.  It takes us around 10 minutes to raise the necessary documentation to take someone to court, yes there are associated costs but I know we are going to get them back + Interest + Expenses.   So if someone who owes you a relatively small amount of money,  allows it to go that far,  they are either Stupid, or they think you are not serious.  The mistake most people make is they threaten and then don't follow it through and thats fatal.

You'd never get the time back or the stress it caused. To be honest you're better putting the dirt back as suggested above. I agree with the sentiment however.

So at what point do you go to court? 
How much has to be involved? 
It's not the money with me it  is the principle!!! 

The customer asks me to do something and I agree.  That is an agreement whether verbal or in writing, an integral part of that agreement is the payment regardless of how big or small.  If they don't pay they have reneged on that agreement and failed to honour their side of it.
Look at it with the boot on the other foot if they only owe you £15 why not just pay it as agreed?  Why allow themselves to have reminders, warnings and threats?  Ask yourself Did they ever intend to Pay?  Or just take the pi$$!  There is No difference to me, an agreement is an agreement £15 0r £1500 theft is theft.   If you don't believe me try going into a shop and nick £15 worth of goods and tell the Magistrate it was only £15 why doesn't the shop just write it off!

One is criminal and the other is civil. No comparison. Whilst I agree in principle with every word, it’s not worth the stress for a piddling amount. I probably would see it through for £100 or so. The problem I’ve had with these is when you don’t take the name of the customer. It’s rare but it does happen and then you can’t do anything.

I don't clean any windows without a name. Not ever.

Sensibly.

[Go]

Do you guys not have terms and conditions.....?

[The Jester of Wibbly]

There's a knock at your door.

"Hello Mr owner. I know you're  a window cleaner and I am your local thief. I'm going to take that lovely hanging plant from the front of your house  OK"

"Yes Mr thief, help yourself as I can't be arsed.  Just let your mates know and I will leave my front door unlocked for you."

Mr thief sniggles and mutters to himself. "mug"

 

[Kev Martin]

Do you guys not have terms and conditions.....?

I do and I am sure others do, mine are a result of a lot of hard work and are watertight!   However surely you don't seriously believe people who don't or have no intention of paying giving a flying f**k about T's & C's?

[Johnny B]

I don't bother with getting bogged down with formal t&cs.

Mine are simply 'I clean, you pay'.

If they don't, I walk away and don't work for them again until they pay.

I don't handle stress very well, so would sooner walk away than waste time, energy and more money chasing small amounts.

If it's bad for the industry, I don't care because I am looking out for me, not anyone else who happens to be in the same line of work as me.

John

[Missing Link]

However surely you don't seriously believe people who don't or have no intention of paying giving a flying f**k about T's & C's?

Introduce them to the twins...

[dazmond]

i finally got paid off a customer who owed me a few cleans and every time its the same.i send at least 3 or 4 text reminders.she never replies and i seen her across the road the other day so confronted her.shes paid now but shes dumped.i cant be arsed with people like that...

most customers would feel guilty if they seen me down the street and they owed me money.this customer totally blanked me until i went over(i was cleaning right across the road from her house).....

she will now see me every month for years while i clean all her neighbours houses.....

[Stoots]

I had a look other day on aworka

£1500 in total ive lost over the last 3 or so years window cleaning!

Most of it from freshly canvassed work from canvassing companies

[dazmond]

I had a look other day on aworka

£1500 in total ive lost over the last 3 or so years window cleaning!

Most of it from freshly canvassed work from canvassing companies

really?what that you didnt get paid for?ive wrote off around £250 in the last 3 years....just think if you d of chased that money you d have enough money for a pure freedom reelmaster AND an xtreme 25 with money left over......