fayellen

constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« on: September 22, 2008, 03:48:41 pm »
I have worked for a friend of a friends husband now for 16mnths, he set up his own agency and was desperatre for a cleaner for a new client he had so i started doing 10 hours a week, the client is very happy with me and i have always been reliable and dependable even getting my own cover on occasions.
For the first two weeks he paid me fine then he asked if he could pay me every 2 weeks, fine by me, then he kept forgetting so turned into 4 weeks I said to him pay me every 4 weeks but he said it is too much money to hand over in one go. so back to two weeks, if and when he remembers which is never.
I have told him i would appreciate a more reliable payment which he apologised for but said he keeps forgetting!! I even texted him one week to tell him payment was due and he texted back saying sorry he was in the pub and couldn't get it to me.
I am so frustrated with this guy and would tell him to stick his job but the people I clean for are very nice and also very generous with gifts etc. They are the only clients he has.
So what would you do I would approach the people i clean for but would they want to know as they lead very busy lives and would it be appropriate.
I have told agency guy on more than one occasion i would like to be paid on time. I have lots of my own cleaning jobs and have no problem with them.
Please any advice would be welcome as i know lots of you have your own cleaning businesses or clean for other people.
Many thanks

holmesclean

  • Posts: 38
Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2008, 04:32:30 pm »
Of course you should approach direct the people you are cleaning for. You say they lead busy lifes but are allowed this because of your excellent cleaning work so they dont have to worry about this and this is reflected in their generosity.
First tell your agent that if you do not receive your pay on appointed dates, give him a schedule, you will approach his clients direct.
You have been messed about for too long.
Regards
Tom
Tom

suffolkclean

  • Posts: 908
Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2008, 05:09:44 pm »
As long as you havn't signed a contract to say you won't approach customers direct, I'm sure there's nothing he can do. You don't work for the fun of it and getting paid on time is very important, the guy sounds like a nightmare. Theres nothing more demoralising than working knowing you're going to have to keep chasing payment.

I'd approach your customer direct but only if you're not locked in to a contract - you have to be careful

hotsteam

  • Posts: 422
Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2008, 05:15:40 pm »
Wht can't you set up a d/d from his bank then no one can forget ?
Regards Hotsteam

fayellen

Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2008, 05:43:43 pm »
Thanks all, The thing is up until a few weeks ago he was paying me cash in hand and was been very sarcastic about me not paying tax so I put it to him that he pays me and I then pay my own tax which he agreed to i hoped this would make him pay me on time but no, back to usual late payments. I am going to put to him about D debit payment which I am sure he will come up with an excuse, if so I will approach client directly (but don't know what they can do as i have heard they think his company's great) as i don't have a contract.
Don't understand this guy at all as people are always saying it is so hard to find a good reliable cleaner.

pdale

  • Posts: 283
Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2008, 06:33:36 pm »
I wouldn't put up with it if the guy keeps messing you around. If you haven't already you should tell him exactly how you feel, if after that he is still the same i wouldn't think twice about approaching the customer direct.

Paul
Where am I knocking today?

cml

  • Posts: 181
Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2008, 07:56:14 am »
Good business ethics not to approach the client direct. 
Implied contract between yourself and agent and agent and custy.  Therefore if you approach client direct may find yourself in a position of breach of contract between you and your agency causing them loss of earnings.  They have instructed you and therefore should pay you.   


Ian Rochester

  • Posts: 2588
Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2008, 01:51:17 pm »
Are you invoicing him for your work?  If not then start doing so, also raise an invoice for any overdue payments.

You need to have consise records of the work you have done and the payments that are due to you, so that if you do need to take him to the small claims court you have something in writing.

If you are working purely cash in hand and not declaring any of it, then you may well end up out of pocket.

I would also tell him that you are not doing any more work until your invoices are settled in full.  Tell the clients that you are unable to work any more because you have not been getting paid for previous works and that there are monies owing.

If you are good and they want to keep you, then they will contact the agency themselves.  They may even start paying you your share direct and paying the balance to the agency, which is quite common.


Joe H

Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2008, 02:24:05 pm »
Cash in hand can always turn dodgy.
He knows you working for cash in hand, he could hold this over you and you may never see your money
and if you get stroppy he could just phone up HMRC and you will be deep in it.
Ever since I set up my cleaning business I have made sure my workers always get paid on time, and never mess with HMRC nor my accountant.

clinton

Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2008, 03:13:36 pm »
Any more news on the late payment ???

fayellen

Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2008, 04:11:47 pm »
I rung guy to say I needed paying every 2 weeks and would it be possible to set up a DD he texted me later to say he was sorry was working away and would drop 2 weeks plus this weeks which he did, but no mention of setting up a DD so i fear it will be back to normal in 2 weeks late again but I will see, don't understrand why he won't set up a DD nothing seems to be easy with him.
As for him contacting HMRC I have already thought of that and would just say he told me he was paying tax for me and I don't think he would ever not pay me as the people I clean for are very good people and I know they would back me up.
Time will tell, Thanks for all your advice.

Joe H

Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2008, 04:58:20 pm »
If he is paying tax for you then what you receive from him should reflect this as he will have to pay HMRC on a regular basis.
Also it should show on your payslip - but by the sounds of it you wont be getting a payslip if he is irregular with your pay.

Selectcleaning

  • Posts: 8
Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2008, 06:34:19 pm »
Sorry to answer the question so late, but in my experience you will find that companies who pay Cash in Hand - No wage slip - No Questions and then pay when they want, will also be the same companies who pay low rates, who short pay, who do not ensure that the relevant insurance is in place for when it is required ect......

Good cleaners are hard to find, tell him you feelings and that next time you are paid late you will not return to work for him. Then if it happens - do what you said, If you are good at your job - you will find work.

Or offer your service on here, with your location as I'm sure someone would be keen to talk to you.

regards



Cherie

fayellen

Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2008, 07:56:12 pm »
Pay due this weekend no sign as yet, I am so frustrated with this guy my family just say you always get it eventually but its not just that it is his whole attitude. I want to approach client but fear they won't want to know as they think his company is great.
Thanks cherie but I dont want to leave this job although I have lots of others, I like the people I clean for as I said they are very generous and treat me well as do all my clients and also why should I leave a job I like because of an incompetent guy, saying that I do feel it is going that way as feel I have put up with this for too long but will tell clients before i leave, I even passed on 8 hours work a few weeks back now i am kicking myself for my loyalty to this guy.

steve_doyle

  • Posts: 92
Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2008, 11:40:06 pm »
This guy sounds like a user,

Do what you have to do, I wouldent feel guilty. You have explained the situation to him.

I would just mention to your customer that you may not be doing their place fo rmuch longer, see what they say. You may get the oportunity to tell them about the "situation" they may offer you an alternative!!!!

mark dew

  • Posts: 2901
Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2008, 04:25:10 am »
Are you claiming benefits which you shouldn't be getting if you declared this job?
If yes, your position is a difficult one. If not, then understand the power of your position.

This guy sounds like a user,

Do what you have to do, I wouldent feel guilty. You have explained the situation to him.

I would just mention to your customer that you may not be doing their place fo rmuch longer, see what they say. You may get the oportunity to tell them about the "situation" they may offer you an alternative!!!!

He is using you!!
The trouble is you don't seem to want to acknowledge it.
Once you recognise this you will be in a position to sort it out.

As you have worked for him for 16 months, hmrc will be a bigger problem for him than you, if you explain you thought you were a legitimate employee, but have doubts because of lack of payslips etc.
You have been used for 16 months. Wake up. Is this worth it for 10 hours of cleaner rates per week?
Consider this job lost and don't be afraid to telling clients eventually of your predicament.
My crystal ball tells me he will be peed off if you rock the boat after 16 months of giving in and will pretend you are causing him a problem, because of it.
Get a 'proper' job for a proper company or advertise yourself.

Approach him with something in writing. Email or if by letter, registered post.
Don't rely on verbal exchanges cos things can be denied.

Write to him explaining how long you have worked for him. What the problems are, such as lack of payslips and that you now think he might not be paying your tax and NI. Mention the amounts that are outstanding.
Put in it how you expect to be paid, reminding him of his original agreement.
Sit back and wait for the mock explosion.

You need to be clever about this and think of the long term.
Once he pulls a guilt trip on you, let him know you will contact hmrc to find out if they have received payments in your name as it might affect the benefits you will receive if this job doesn't work out . Act slow but think sharp.

As long as you don't keep up pretensions to yourself that this job might work out, you and he will both realise that you can bring a considerable amount of trouble if you start seeking advice elsewhere.

Finally, this guy sounds stupid cos he thinks you are. Use this to your advantage and he will provide you the rope to hang himself.
Don't threaten but sound unsure of what to do in your letter.
Your goal (or mine if in this situation) should be to get him to acknowledge your letter. Even if it is just an apology.
Once you have this in writing he is as sunk as you want him to be.
If he won't put it in an email or letter then a text is the next best thing.

All i have written above assumes you aren't cheating the benefits people.

Oh and the CAB will give you good confidential advice. Go there 1st cos you sound like you need a confidence boost about your position.

Good luck. 

clinton

Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2008, 05:23:30 pm »
Are you still working for him or have you done the right think and kicked it into touch ???

fayellen

Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2008, 08:24:40 pm »
Hi, Yes Clinton I am still working for him everytime I moan he hasn't paid me he turns up with money and I am not claiming benefits.   
I don't realy understand how he is using me he pays me 7.50 hr he gets 10.00 hr so all seems fair as far as that is concerned and I was the one who asked for cash in hand in the first place. I may be being stupid here as far as business goes but for me to be taxed by him would mean me being on a lesser rate of pay and him maybe pocketing the money that is why I suggest I become self employed so I wouldn't be earning enough to pay tax.
Am I misssing something, I think he is a complete prat myself  but the money is nice and the work fairly easy and flexible so don't want to give it up, not till christmas anyway.

clinton

Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2008, 10:00:33 pm »
Glad your geting some pay anyway :)

Just thought the way it was going you might have been out of pocket :(

Clinton

mark dew

  • Posts: 2901
Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2008, 02:21:10 am »
constant late payments by agency, waht to do?

Nothing?  :)

fayellen

Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2008, 02:14:08 pm »
Mark it's not that I have done nothing I just realy don't see how he is using me yes he certainly doesn't appreciate me and is an unreliable idiot whom seems to think I will just carry on regardless and not say anything to his clients, but when I leave I will tell them just how unreliable he has been.
Could someone please explain to me how he is using me.

clinton

Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2008, 03:08:00 pm »
hi fay

Are you self employed or just starting up ???

Or do you have a regular client base.

cheers clinton

cml

  • Posts: 181
Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2008, 03:14:06 pm »
You have asked for advice but appear to not have taken anything on board. 

You like the job, he is not using you and all sorts or excuses are used.  Are these still his only clients and if so then he is using you for his PR and face of his company because you have not discussed any of his continuing problem with the client so he feels safe with you.  Why would he rock the boat when he is quite happy earning off you with no questions asked?

You have not checked nor complained about the lack of payslips nor whether tax has been paid on your behalf.  But if you really think about it did he get you to fill out a P46 at the start?  10 hours a week hardly makes the threshold for tax liability.  You also have your own clients or business so what is your real status, that of a subcontractor or employee.  You lead us to believe you are an employee but what agreement is in place, you should know some aspects of what you should be doing if you are already self employed.  Therefore what are your real reasons for putting up with this?  Are you also not declaring your earnings from your other jobs.  Something does not appear right with this whole set up and you need to examine the real issues. 
If you are not declaring your own earnings I would seriously think about it and question yourself as to whether the whole thing is worth it as the penalties for non disclosure can be very harsh.

fayellen

Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2008, 05:12:16 pm »
CML, When I started for this guy he was my only job so cash in hand worked very well for me, although he was starting to get very sarcastic about the fact I wasn't paying tax.
I now have 8 different clients totalling 35 hours I am declaring my work and paying tax and stamp.
I see where you are coming from but I am classed as self employed for this guy and I know he hasn't been paying tax for me hence the sarcasm. I don't get payslips from any of my jobs but when I have filled tax returns out in the past I have never been asked to produce anything as proof.
My real reasons for putting up with this is I like the job it fits in with all my other jobs and is flexible when needed I don't think there is anything sinister here perhaps just someone (me) who has been way too soft in the past but is not willing to put up with it any longer. Thanks for all your replies and sorry if I seem a little naive I am new to all this

mark dew

  • Posts: 2901
Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2008, 02:06:42 pm »
hiya fayellen, wasn't meant to be sarcastic.
I thought from reading your posts that you were having trouble getting paid for 16 months. And that he used being in a pub as a reason not to pay you there and then.
I've been lucky maybe (or people ain't as bad as i'd thought they would be), since working for myself in that i haven't had to chase too much.
But from a previous life, payment issues become worse if they exist in the 1st place.
After 16 months, this is not gonna be easy for you to change. But if i was him i would look on someone like yourself as being in the 'last to pay' category cos i can get away with it.
Different folks different strokes, i guess.
I couldn't function knowing i should be due some cash this friday, but it might be friday 24 november??
If you can fair play to you.
Only you really know if it is ok for you or not.
It is easy to sit on a comp and advise, do this or i wouldn't do that. But it is only an opinion and one that doesn't carry the weight or knowledge of your own opinion.
Good luck with it.

fayellen

Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2009, 11:32:47 am »
Well finally after many months the guy started messing clients about by getting a rubbish cleaner in to cover for me and ignoring them constantly so they asked me if I would be interested in  working for them directly, I explained the situation to them and they were shocked that he hadn't been paying me on time and said they difinately did not want to lose  me. They have now got rid of this guy (which I feel a bit bad about) and given me a pay rise and promised to pay me on time.
It's all a bit awkward as I know his wife but you cannot keep messing people about and expect them to keep you on.
 

Window Washers

  • Posts: 9036
Re: constant late payments by agency, waht to do?
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2009, 12:15:07 am »
I have worked for a friend of a friends husband now for 16mnths, he set up his own agency and was desperatre for a cleaner for a new client he had so i started doing 10 hours a week, the client is very happy with me and i have always been reliable and dependable even getting my own cover on occasions.
For the first two weeks he paid me fine then he asked if he could pay me every 2 weeks, fine by me, then he kept forgetting so turned into 4 weeks I said to him pay me every 4 weeks but he said it is too much money to hand over in one go. so back to two weeks, if and when he remembers which is never.
I have told him i would appreciate a more reliable payment which he apologised for but said he keeps forgetting!! I even texted him one week to tell him payment was due and he texted back saying sorry he was in the pub and couldn't get it to me.
I am so frustrated with this guy and would tell him to stick his job but the people I clean for are very nice and also very generous with gifts etc. They are the only clients he has.
So what would you do I would approach the people i clean for but would they want to know as they lead very busy lives and would it be appropriate.
I have told agency guy on more than one occasion i would like to be paid on time. I have lots of my own cleaning jobs and have no problem with them.
Please any advice would be welcome as i know lots of you have your own cleaning businesses or clean for other people.
Many thanks
Tje gfuy is cleaerly not in it for a business more using you to pay the bar bill, I would go to customers and say I will be leaving say the reason why and give them a card of yours, working for someone and not getting paid is just not on, I employ and would not dream of not paying them on time.


The guy is clearly takes the kickey out of you, only you can stop this.

Ian
If your not willing to learn, No one can help you, If you are determined to learn, No one can stop you ;)