new starter

« **on:** July 13, 2004, 02:49:45 pm »

I started about 4 weeks ago weekends only to test the market.
500 cards printed from Vista Print and posted in the areas where I felt the owners would be reasonable to a good price for a good job.
I have about £400 business a month and some great customers happy to pay £25.00 a month.(BIG mansion type houses) take me 1-1 and a half hours to do.
The average price for standard residential I am getting is £6.50 per fortnight. Currently taking an hour to do 2 but already I am discovering quicker and equally as good methods of cleaning, so hopefully I should soon be at 3 per hour.
I go out to quote on a new area and sell myself as reliable, accountable and professional.
One of my best customers had the misfortune of my inexperience when a particularly windy day brought my B+Q double extension down on her car!!
It cost me £80.00 plus an immediate purchase of liability insurance (£77 for £1 million from Groupama) plus £141.00 for a trade triple from Landsfords.
Had that mishap occurred on my £25.00 customers, the costs of damage to one of their cars does not bear thinking about.
All in all, a lesson learnt and a customer who was happy to receive prompt payment is recommending me to others.
On the subject of ladders, I have just read the directive and in the appendices, there are a number of items relating to the use of ladders and it categorically states that if it is not practical for other safer means to be utilised due for example a short term use of the ladder, then a ladder can be used as a temporary work platform as long as the user has assessed any risks and is using the ladder in a safe manner.
Anyway, in the continuing adventures of a new window cleaner, yesterday, I had to clean the exterior and interior of a dental surgery. I had gone out to estimate and looked at the 2nd storey windows and said I would not be cleaning them as they were about 40 foot up. They were fine about that and accepted my price of £50.00.
Get there yesterday all fired up, even had 2 sandbags placed at foot of ladder and set off to clean the first floor windows which looked a reasonable height from the ground!! Got onto third extension and thought "no chance!" Got down, re-assessed, and had the bright idea of cushioning the head of the third extension and resting it against the frame at what looked a solid point and would give me the height to reach the top panes of a 6 foot high sash. Halfway up and bang goes the window. I had the whole place to do and all I could think about was the money is going straight to a glazier.
I thought it was important to keep the client happy by responding quickly and efficiently so got it repaired for £35.00 and I am back fortnightly.
Anyway, how to clean the windows?
I ended up halfway up the ladder using a pole, mop and squeegee. The water had dried by the time I had pulled down the pole to change from mop to squeegee, so loads of streaks which I had to deal with by wrapping microfibre cloth around a T bar at the end of pole!!
In the end, job done, lessons learnt AGAIN! customer happy and I made £15.00 for 2 hours work!!
From that job, I had a complete UPVC clean, gutters, facsias etc on a small maissonette for £72.00 so not too bad.
New cards arrived today, I want to try and target bungalows in the more affluent areas. I have put together a letter as well saying if they already have a cleaner, just keep my card and give me a call if things are not working out. I also mention the need for window cleaners to be insured and point out that I am.
I have found that if they are happy with who they have , they wont ring so not treading on anyones toes who deserves the custom.
I work office based in my full time job with a definite view to changing over to my self employment as soon as I have a round that justifies a change financially.
I would like to thank all contributors who have made my life a lot easier with great advice and absolutely love the window cleaning, fresh air, rain or shine, providing a good service, meeting people all the time etc etc.
From the adventures? above, mistakes are being made and learnt from (haven`t we all?) and I hope it brought a little smile to your face when it brought back your starting out memories.
I`ll keep you posted
Steve

« **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2004, 06:17:59 pm »

£15 for 2 hrs is not good, i suggest you look at your prices and increase them. Sounds like your having fun and looks like you leant a lesson with the two mishaps you have already had. PL insurance is a must i had a customer the other day ask me for mine before i started, just glad i carry it with me. Turned out the last window cleaner broke her sky dish and smashed the conservatory window and did a runner all in the same day.

I started some 4-5 months ago now and love it, like you say you met all kinds of people and the view changes alot. Looks like you dont like using ladders have you thought about Water Fed Pole? Them 2nd floor windows will be easy then and you charge more the higher you go.

Good luck.

Justin

« **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2004, 11:16:19 pm »

Working off ladders is a challenge, it isn't easy at all.
Learning the techniques of a window cleaner takes time too, but that comes with practice.
Once you have them, think about WFP!
Using ladders won't be against the law of course, but methods of use will mean that a safety officer will almost always be able to stop a single operator in his tracks.
Over the years I have had more than my share of mishaps with window cleaning, they add meaning to your life, you suddenly begin to appreciate what 1 metre per second per second really means!

Ian

« **Reply #3 on:** July 14, 2004, 01:13:36 am »

Steve
you have not had the best of starts maybe window cleaning is not for you, please think about it as not one window pain is worth your life and for some of the prices that you charge

you should sit down and think about it, as you work in a office draw up a business plan and take it from there, if not stick to the day job.

Andy

« **Reply #4 on:** July 14, 2004, 02:22:13 am »

Steve

we all make mistakes, and we learn from them, you seem to be learning fairly quickly

the insurance is a good thing and it will save you the hastle of being sued

stick at it, sure as justin has said, £15 for 2 hours work isnt great, BUT people who work in a shop or Office would love to earn that (i spoke to someone who is earning £6.00 a hour in a Office today), i allways aim for £15 a hour, im happy with that (most here will laugh at it and say "you should be earning £20 or £30 a hour", it all depends on what your happy with)

as i said, stick with it, learn by your mishaps and enjoy life

« **Reply #5 on:** July 14, 2004, 01:14:47 pm »

thanks for replies.
Maybe I didn`t make it clear enough. The dental surgery was a £50.00 job for 2 hours work but due to the broken window costing £35.00, I only made £15.00 for 2 hours work...I was attempting to inject a touch of humour!
As I mentioned, I charge £6.50 minimum for a residential and do 2 houses per hour comfortably at the moment (quickly moving towards 3 houses per hour)making my minimum wage at the moment £13.00 per hour which believe me, after speaking to my Liverpool customers is in some cases treble what they have paid to previous cleaners. After selling myself as reliable, insured and attentive to detail, the customers have been happy to pay my charge.
To pole man, I have looked into window cleaning in great detail and have made all attempts to deliver my service in a reliable, accountable and professional manner leaving all my customers extremely pleased with my work and recommending me to others. I feel it important to challenge the pre-conceived image some people have of window cleaners and feel I am doing so successfully.
This is in no small way, due to the many informative and helpful posts on this board.
I cannot believe other cleaners (including yourself poleman)have not had mishaps in their early days. If I were to think twice about a career change because of 2 luckily minor accidents, I would never move on in life.
In any walk of life, mistakes are made, learnt from and the person moves on and forward.

I would think £25.00 for a external window clean taking 1-1and a half hours is good and I got 4 of these after 1 afternoon delivering business cards in an upmarket development. I have now completed the work on them all in one day.(3 at £25.00 and 1 at £35.00 who gave me a £4.00 tip.) All are monthly cleans and all were very happy with my professional approach and attention to detail.
I will continue to develop my round - 2 more customers last night (£8.00 and £6.50) with the likliehood that the neighbours are looking for a cleaner as well.
I have a quickly developing round in upmarket areas, paying a good rate, liability insurance, uniform, van, correct equipment and cleaning materials which I am becoming quickly proficient at using, professional business cards and a computer file of customer letters to remind them of next clean, confirming charges etc.
I have a rapidly deteriorating eyesight from absorbing all the info on this board...and someone suggests packing it all in!
Never mind, I love it and can see a future in it.
Thanks again
Steve

« **Reply #6 on:** July 14, 2004, 10:26:32 pm »

good on you steve

nice to hear of some-one trying something new

« **Reply #7 on:** July 14, 2004, 11:46:46 pm »

Yes, good luck Steve.

We`ve all made mistakes but as you know you learn from them. Regarding pricing, I think you know your area better than most, so don`t think you should charge what someone else tells you. They don`t sound too bad to me anyway.
You will get quicker and I hope you build up your round to go full time.
This forum will also be a great help to you, so you know where to go if you get stuck.

Gerry.

« **Reply #8 on:** July 15, 2004, 12:24:28 am »

Good to read your story steve

i knew what you meant re:dental surgery price,unfortunately some people dont take the time to read things through properly!

And take it from me,poleman did have plenty of mishaps in the beginning, i should know, i sold him his first round.

As for all your other prices, they sound fine to me.

just remember all that fresh air you were talking about gets a lot fresher in winter,but hey, it puts hairs on your chest.

good luck & keep up the good work :-/ :-/

« **Reply #9 on:** July 15, 2004, 04:14:53 am »

steve your doing allright mate just carry on as u are a lot of these window cleaners who earn 25 pound an hour on domestic work live down south not in liverpool like you.

« **Reply #10 on:** July 15, 2004, 02:30:32 pm »

Quote

just remember all that fresh air you were talking about gets a lot fresher in winter,but hey, it puts hairs on your chest.

isnt that the truth

« **Reply #11 on:** July 15, 2004, 11:27:39 pm »

Thanks for the supportive messages-at least I know it`s not going to be such a lonely business out there!! much appreciated.
As for cold weather, I spent 4 years with The Parachute Regiment (3 Para 1984-1988) becoming very aquainted with the bottom of many rain filled holes in the ground, trenches don`t improve over the years, they will always be cold, wet muddy holes! I then spent 9 years in the fire brigade in Liverpool spending many a bleary eyed dawn sitting halfway up a 13.5 metre ladder pouring water into a smouldering derelict property...always cold and wet!! I think I`ve developed a fleece lined neoprene skin. Funnily enough, I was thinking today about the intensive ladder training I undertook with the brigade...the 13.5m ladder weighed 100kg and was carried by 4 people, extending and positioning it was a military operation..it was so solid it felt like a concrete staircase...no blowing over problems there...I wonder if it would fit through my customers back gate?!!
Thanks again
Steve

« **Reply #12 on:** July 16, 2004, 12:47:46 am »

crikey, from what i`ve heard about paras,you should be able to just stare at the windows and scare them into cleaning themselves!!!!!!

« **Reply #13 on:** July 22, 2004, 12:22:37 am »

are paras the one with the pink berets
and the prancing pony as their emblem?
you know you shouldnt of mentioned it!

« **Reply #14 on:** July 29, 2004, 02:18:53 am »

Well done steve
everyone here has had mishaps,falls and made an arse of themselves its just they have short memories.
you sound like the new brand of window cleaner, smart professional and determined
i am proud to be on this forum with you
never mind the old patronising bores who always know the best way (yeah right)
keep up the good work and prices? prices ? you charge what you want and ignore the "experts" who claim to get squillions an hour ...let the tax man show them what they really earn.£30 per hour is good if you work like me 60hours per week but £30 for 6.5 hours a week is nothing. do it the right way and that way is yours
respect
gordon

« **Reply #15 on:** July 29, 2004, 02:43:36 am »

hi steve,

prices seem ok for around this area mate were about in liverpool are you i am a window cleaner in wirral area

not far away.

« **Reply #16 on:** August 01, 2004, 12:24:34 am »

thanks for continuing support - much appreciated.
I`m in South Liverpool and so far have had only one knock back from a Meldrew type voice after his wife shouted in "what do you think Bob? £6.50 a fortnight"
..."how much!!? for one clean!!..I`ll do it myself"
this is on a road of 81 semi detached who haven`t had a cleaner in 2 years I`ve been told by my other customers I`m getting on the road.
The worst thing was, his next door neighbour who had happily accepted my price and actually introduced me to her neighbours suddenly rang up within 30 minutes of her neighbours rant and cancelled me saying her son thought it was way too expensive and he would do them for her!! The neighbour has obviously put his two pence worth in.
Now, not too long ago, I would have reacted to this in a number of ways not condusive to building a business, but thanks to the advice on the board, I stuck to my price, accepted the womans reasons and offered her my services (cleaning) should she need me in the future.
I am enjoying the freedom of this so much and even more so now I am developing a system of working which is faster and more economical...all the little things you try and discard, the short cuts over back gates etc... and I am building up a round that I have targetted and enjoy working on.
I`m pretty sure I`m losing a little bit of weight off the torso as well as the mind, so thats a bonus too!!
Cheers
Steve

« **Reply #17 on:** August 01, 2004, 02:32:06 am »

Showing my age here cos I remember these lyrics the first time round - Don Henley (not some boy band doing a cover) and The Boys of Summer . . .

Out on the road today, I saw a deadhead sticker on a Cadillac
A little voice inside my head said, "Don't look back. You can never look back."

Just like the words say - don't go back. I'm not quite sure if I'm trying to prove something, or maybe I'm just stubborn, but if someone's knocked me back I'm happy to return the favour later.

Oh dear, I'm also old enough to recall the irony in the first line. Nurse! - time for my Sanatogen, I think

« **Reply #18 on:** January 01, 2006, 07:48:07 pm »

wow...memory lane...posted this 18 months ago

still here and still loving it

I think my user name is slightly different.
I`m Steve Kinsella from Liverpool anyway.
Your first post...anyone remember them??

« **Reply #19 on:** January 01, 2006, 09:52:56 pm »

Well done steve youve made an excellent start and full of enthusiasm, very professional unlike me, totally disorganised even without a buisiness name but on my books are lots of accounts other wc are envious of, though some of the prices are less than they think and i rarely lose good work. So keep up the attitude you started with and you will go a long way. Ignore people who put you down! someone told me 20 years ago i'll never make a wc

but i cant remember who it was.
GOOD LUCK

« **Reply #20 on:** January 01, 2006, 10:56:45 pm »

Sounds like you're doing OK bar the laddering. WFP has already been mentioned and that is definately the way to go. Until you get there though, I'd recommended flogging the aluminium ladders and get a proper wooden industrial set - wire strung with ally rungs. The extra weight and slight give makes laddering a lot safer - and quieter.

« **Reply #21 on:** January 02, 2006, 08:27:59 am »

KGJ...I posted the original thread 18 months ago and have now progressed to van mount WFP.
I left my full time office job in July 2004 and went full time window cleaning. When I say full time, I mean in the early days, it was 2/3 days a week work and the rest canvassing.
I am now in the position of full, good paying work at 4/5 hours a day probably at 75% WFP with obvious room for more but only at right price.
I am using this new year period to deliver canvassing material to the customers who have not approached me yet on those runs which pay the best for me. I am also canvassing a number of housing developments where there are a lot of UPVC windows over bays/porches and will stick rigidly if asked to min £10 per clean.
I am increasing all charges of existing customers who I undercharged when taking on as a new starter and will drop any that do not accept and replace with new higher paying customers.
A new year to brush out the old and welcome in the new

I`m really looking forward to developing and fine tuning my round this year and enjoying the rewards.

« **Reply #22 on:** January 02, 2006, 11:00:43 am »

I started last june, had a midlife crisis, sold my pride and joy mercedes gave up my freelance advertising and went and got myself a van and van mount!!.Never cleaned a window in my life!!! Was fed up being at home working on the phone all day!! i started door knocking and got a few customers but am restricted to times i can knock as im on my own with my 7 yr old lad. so went and got 10,000 leaflets, a proffessional company to deliver them and gained an extra £850 to date from them!! another 20,000 going out in new yr. i have a minimum charge of £10, and £75 for conservatory roofs and cladding cleans.i must say, even when its lashing down or freezing, ive finally found what i enjoy. Excited about this yr and what its going to bring,Never looked back!!!

« **Reply #23 on:** January 02, 2006, 03:52:38 pm »

Steve, this was one of my posts and replies 3 or so months ago:

Quote

Ben-chan
Cleanitup Sr. Member

Online

Posts: 143

Re: Training for newcomer- glasgow, scotland...?
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2005, 01:38:56 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hmm, why do i get the impression i'm pishing against the dourrr scots wind on this one. It all seems so bonnie down south, you guys all mucking together
phoned couple guys up -they prefered to try a dissuade from the business. can't believe its that competative? Next door said they need a w/c so theres me starter, i'll practice on theirs.
still, could do with some on the job advice with ladder thing, what to get how to use etc and any inside info on licence and any specific regs in scotland would do a treat.
better to start in the know rather than p around in ignorance.
Gordons- why are you asking me if i've got any eqpt or customers yet? (as if you doubt my intentions) May i say, since your in the business up ere and joining in the forum why don't you at least give us some advice, even if its just:
"look mate, to be perfectly honest, i wouldn't bother window cleaning in glasgow, you'll only get agro"

benchan

jonathanoneill
Cleanitup Newbie

Offline

Posts: 9

Re: Training for newcomer- glasgow, scotland...?
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2005, 03:17:14 PM »

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don't let anyone put you off, if you do a good job, go where you like, don't try and poach thats bad, to get started, get up earlier work longer work harder than any possible competition, while they are having a cup of tea you are working, while they are taking a long lunch you are still working, practise practise practise, be reliable and your good reputaion will proceed you and business will come your way, get a free listing on yell.com, get some leaflets done, and get insurance, put this on your leaflets, people will want someone they know is insured if something happens on there property, also help if you need to put prices up.

Cheers Jonathan

...and i remember talking to a w/c on the street who said, "yeh, the problem is man getting the business"

£10,000 per year now, pay rate at least 20 an hour, aint a bad start me thinks!

It goes to show though doesn't it!

i do have the benefit of not having to go full time, so i'm about half-way to my full time work-load.

Building an intentionally part-time round has been interesting as with-out the pressure of having to fill 5 days a week i made most of my work less regular, like 2 monthly or big houses quarterly, but priced it up. customers pay less over the year, say 60 per quarter instead of 30 a month for big house, but i earn more -£60 per 2 hours work instead of half that. a recomendation for anyone starting

ben

« **Reply #24 on:** January 02, 2006, 05:21:16 pm »

Quote from: steve k on January 02, 2006, 08:27:59 am

KGJ...I posted the original thread 18 months ago and have now progressed to van mount WFP.
I left my full time office job in July 2004 and went full time window cleaning. When I say full time, I mean in the early days, it was 2/3 days a week work and the rest canvassing.
I am now in the position of full, good paying work at 4/5 hours a day probably at 75% WFP with obvious room for more but only at right price.
I am using this new year period to deliver canvassing material to the customers who have not approached me yet on those runs which pay the best for me. I am also canvassing a number of housing developments where there are a lot of UPVC windows over bays/porches and will stick rigidly if asked to min £10 per clean.
I am increasing all charges of existing customers who I undercharged when taking on as a new starter and will drop any that do not accept and replace with new higher paying customers.
A new year to brush out the old and welcome in the new
I`m really looking forward to developing and fine tuning my round this year and enjoying the rewards.

Sorry Steve, I didn't clock the date

I'm blaming drink and a house full of unmoveable relatives!