[windows_chepstow]

PJ,

Roger wouldn't do the time trial thing; he bottled it.

I think Roger's excuses were:

1.  The windows had the wrong sort of seals.
2.   He had a headache.
3.   His Missis's Aunty's dog's cousin has just had puppies and he's got to bottle feed them.
4.   All his scrims are dirty.
5.   The windows still had the wrong sort of seals.
6.   AAAAArrrrrrggggg it's not fair.

I'm sure it was some sort of waffle like that.

[drew86]

Hi all I have just won a job with original leaded glass on a listed building, I tried my wfp set up when doing quote on 1 window as previous posts had mentioned leaking glass and sure enough it did leak, customer very disapointed as I had realy sold wfp to her, anyway can you trad guys please tell me the best way to tackle this job, realy want to keep It as it is a £25 monthly.

Drew.

[gaza]

original leaded windows urgh Ifind with wfp they shred your brush ends,is that the thick lead with the pane inserted into every triangle or square?

 gaza

[Fast 1 *]

Some lead windows you can squeegee with slow, harder downward pulls,wiping the rubber with each pull.Of course,the applicator must not be as wet as normal.Then when the water has nearly dried(if there is any on show),buff with a scrim.No smears.I personally think that when you just use cloths,the greasy residues remain,hence smearing.When using cloths,you are in effect,rubbing the dirt around the window,rather than totally removing it like a squeegee can.Obviously i do not use this technique on all leads.This way was shown to me by a good windowcleaner.I try and keep scrim use to a minimum.

[drew86]

They are the small panes about 4" square, I thought I would have to do it all with scrim or micro what do you think.WFP no use on this one windows leak.
Drew. 

[Sir Squeaky]

Some lead windows you can squeegee with slow, harder downward pulls,wiping the rubber with each pull.Of course,the applicator must not be as wet as normal.Then when the water has nearly dried(if there is any on show),buff with a scrim.No smears.I personally think that when you just use cloths,the greasy residues remain,hence smearing.When using cloths,you are in effect,rubbing the dirt around the window,rather than totally removing it like a squeegee can.Obviously i do not use this technique on all leads.This way was shown to me by a good windowcleaner.I try and keep scrim use to a minimum.

I have done that myself.
It's by far the quickest way if they're pretty greasy and dirty.

Of course wfp will do it 2.6 seconds, but that's another story......

[Rise N Shine]

My way of doing old school leaded windows is with a spray bottle with my usual mix of squeegee off, light spray over the glass, wipe over with a damp scrim to remove dirt, then buff with a dry scrim, they come up great.
Tried microfibre and wasn't happy with the amount of fibres left behind, is this because the ones i used were of low quality?

[windows_chepstow]

Hi all I have just won a job with original leaded glass on a listed building, I tried my wfp set up when doing quote on 1 window as previous posts had mentioned leaking glass and sure enough it did leak,

Drew.

Drew,

Is this an outside only job?  I take it, it is!

Then you've got problems.

I do a similar property; but bigger (it's a hotel) and the windows must be at least 200 years old.  You should see the state of them; many are bent and buckled; they're not flat windows.

Many do leak, but I crack on regardless, and with this type of REAL-leaded window, WFP brings them up better than micro-fibre; honest.  The bristles and water get into the nooks and crannies a cloth can't reach.

With this type of leaded window, the lead is really thick making it difficult to buff with a cloth.  Not only that, there is a danger of 'popping' triangular panes of glass out of the lead (I've done this while cleaning the insides).

How about suggesting to the customer that instead of doing it with a WFP every month, you do it every other month; WFP the outside first; then clean the insides, but charge more because inside cleans are a pain?

Just some food for thought.

[Jeff Brimble]

Not for everyone but I saw a guy with wooly gloves and the microfibre over them, he went over the windows like greased lightening, clean hands and no lead on his skin. Wonder if anyone makes microfibre gloves 

[JM123]

Jeff I think there's a company bout 30 miles from here that do them, seen them a couple of months back, real thick layer of microfibre on the palm and neoprene I think the rest.  Not sure but I will be there tommorrow or thursday, could take a look for you.

[beefy]

does water quality have anything to do with smears or lack of i used to do all leaded with a wet mop then scrim- hard work!! after finding this site i do them all with applicator (as wet as i would do a normal window) squeegie down then scrim dry half the effort & never had a smear

[jeff evans]

Beefy

Do you squeegy the upstairs & scrim ?, i used to do this on downstairs windows with very good results, but found this to dangerous to do on upstairs especially on the larger windows.

Now have wfp and although i still do 95% of domestic the trad way, i do all leaded with wfp, it saves a lot of time and hard graft with excellent results.

[beefy]

up & down jeff, but i dont have any with big windows really ive just done  my biggest leaded house with wfp (tops) & pleased with results.  but not much quicker but im still learning. i think wfp is v.good in a lot of cases but ive no plans to give up trad i like ladders!!

[drew86]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I realy cant wfp as windows leak realy badly, dont think i could convince her as quite alot of water leaked through the lead and she will not always be in for cleaning up.I think i will take all suggestions on board and see what works best for me.
Drew.

[jeff evans]

Your in the same boat as me Beefy i love trad, WFP is a tool i use, and very good it is on the job,s i use it for.

I still like trad as it keeps me fit and active ( getting on now   so need all the exersize i can get )  

[Ian_Giles]

Trad can't get remoely close to WFP on these, you are at least 5 or 6 times faster with WFP, and providing frames are in good condition you will do a better

Sorry Ian, but you must be going into wfp sales or something. :
That really is piffle of the highest order.

5-6 times quicker?

So the big 4-5 bed  leaded jobs I do in Grange Park (you know the ones), that are £15 and take me 20 mins, you could do them 3 minutes or so.....?

Come on, lets have honest advice for someone who needs help, not biased nonsense.

Roger if you are going to quote me then quote me correctly, it is really annoying when you persist in selectively choosing how you put together what I've written, I DID NOT SAY WFP IS 5 TO 6 TIMES QUICKER ON LEADED

I said 2 to 3 times quicker, and if you would like me to come up to grange park and demonstrate that then I will do just that.
I may not be 2 to 3 times quicker than you will be, but I will be quicker than you I absolutely guarantee it.
I've always accepted you are a quick window cleaner regardless of whether you use applicator and squeegee or spray and buff, but by and large, for the average window cleaner it will be as I quoted, 2 to 3 times quicker on leaded and up to 5 or 6 times quicker on georgian windows.
A standard window will take the average window cleaner 90 seconds to clean trad,  WFP will do the job in about 30 seconds tops. You want to time me then be my guest, and I won't be rushing to do it in that time either. And the average window cleaner will take far longer to clean that average sized window should it have lead stuck on them.
The same size  georgian window, usually 18 panes of glass will be done in almost the same time with WFP...you reckon you can clean an 18 pane georgian window in under 3 minutes? Time yourself, you may well be surprised just how long you take, you may beat 3 minutes but there is no way you will get under 2 minutes.

WFP is up to 5 or 6 times quicker on GEORGIAN WINDOWS. (when compared to the time it will take your average window cleaner to do them)

If you are going to quote someone then don't edit the quote to suit yourself, this isn't a moderator thing, I am simply annoyed that I've been misquoted, it is very bad form.

One thing I don't talk is piffle Roger, and I'll happily  back up my claims.

Ian

[Sir Squeaky]

Ian, how can you backtrack now and say I mis-quoted you?

I highlighted it in a box.
It's in black and white! I haven't edited anything.

You said 5-6 times quicker, and it was responding to a thread on leaded.

...and no you wouldn't do one of those big houses in 7 minutes.
Impossible.

Yes you're quicker by far on georgians, but no-one was talking about them.
I don't do them anyway.....

The thread was on leaded windows, not how "great" wfp is.(again)

[Ian_Giles]

Roger,

I DID NOT SAY WFP WAS 5 TO 6 TIMES QUICKER ON LEADED!!!

I SAID IT WAS 2 TO 3 TIMES QUICKER, and I hold to that, and in all I say I am not saying what can be done if you work at it.
Lets face it, if you realy persevere it is possible to clean 3 windows in under 10 seconds...not possible?...oh yes it is, and provably so, there is a man on this forum that is well documented for doing just that....and his name is Terry Burrows!
But of course he is also the only man in the entire world that can do so.

When I quote times I am saying what the average person can hope to achieve; for a newbie coming into window cleaning, even what is considered average takes hard work to achieve, it'll take you many months before you can knock out a standard size semi in 20 minutes  and clean it to a high standard.
I know this from many years of employing people and training them, I talk from real experience.



How many more times must you be told about inaccurate quoting, please read what was written by me properly, and when you highlight a quote don't chop one sentence in half and join it to a separate sentence and thereby say something entirely different to what was in the original reply.

My reply was not one about banging on about the virtues of WFP over trad, initially I was saying almost exactly what you were saying, and the original question also queried WFP with regards to cleaning leaded, so I stayed entirely on topic while mentioning the pro's and cons of the different methods of cleaning leaded windows.
In my reply to you when you misquoted me so badly I did not say I would be 2 to 3 times quicker than you on a leaded account, yet again, read what is written properly before offering a rebuttal.
I acknowledged openly that you are a fast window cleaner with squeegee or spray and buff and went on to say that,;
"I may not be 2 to 3 times quicker than you will be, but I will be quicker than you I absolutely guarantee it."

That by the way is a direct and accurate quote.

In 'almost' all situations, WFP is the best way of cleaning leaded windows, even old, real leaded glass, and if you read my original reply properly, you will see that I also highlighted the problems you can have should you use WFP on leaded windows.

The one thing you will not find me doing is offering biased nonsense, I do not bang on blindly about WFP without qualifying statements, nor make grand sweeping comments on something I know nothing about.

And I am more than happy to be called to account, if you can clean those houses in 20 minutes I WILL BE QUICKER THAN YOU AND WILL DO A JOB THAT WILL BE THE EQUAL OF ANYTHING YOU DO, EVEN THE FIRST TIME I CLEAN IT WITH WFP.

Ian.

For others that may offer comment on this little 'spat', I am being blunt and fairly undiplomatic in my replies, they are not the wild rantings of someone typing with the 'red mist' in front of their eyes