[gwrightson]

Cleaning a house today, everthing fine untill i came to the entrance area, vac, prespray , aggitate then started to extract. argghhh  as soon as my spray hit the carpet it turned black, and i mean black straight infront of custy eyes , we both looked at each other in amazement. I stopped immeadietly to take a closer look at the situation my imeadiate thoughts been "not vacced enough "  no i thought rest of carpets fine bearing in mind same carpet through out most of house. Ok next step , lift carpet and take a closer look whats underneath, all the time the custy reassuring me not to worry as she would just replace it with some same from lounge carpet she is having replaced.   

So, lifted carpet and the underlay had been glued to the carpet and nothing untoward on the wood floor underneath, a closer look showed me the underlay was a type that had what i can only describe as a black inner layer inbetween 2 other thin layers, now my guess is the underlay has become unstable and breaking up and I was pulling all the crap through the carpet and this is what i have told the custy.
here is a pic , any other thought as to what it could be ,or is my analisis right?  I didnt part the underlay from carpet by the way as didnt want to create more of a mess at the moment .
Geoff

[Derek_Walker]

Geoff, it looks to me that you are definately pulling something up from below the pile. I have seen this happen many times, normally because of excess soil at the base of the carpet but it could possibly be the underlay disintegrating. Have you opened up the pile to see what is at the base ie compacted soil?

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

Yes, it's almost certainly the underlay disintegrating, used to be quite common with foam backs.
Concrete floors with their high alkalinity are particular likely to cause this.

Cheers

Doug

[gwrightson]

yes Derick, took a look  and it was black .

I dont think any amount of vaccing would have solved this problem, as i have suggested the underlay is knackerd to custy, she has already made her mind up to refit same from lounge as she was having that replaced any way.

I did tell her it could be cleaned, but it was still a problem as the underlay was glued to backing , unusual in itself but apparently this was done because the edging was glued because of the border, as you can see by the pic.

im back there in a 3 weeks to complete the house , the job itself is not a problem for me or custy, but i thought it would be good to point out what can catch us at times, and i guess alot of custys would not have been so understanding.

geoff

[derek west]

scary geoff, good job she wasn't a fleecer.

could it be the glue thats perished the underlay?

[Dave Whittaker]

Shouldnt do Derek- unless they used the wrong glue.

Should be f3 latex adhesive, but even that goes all dry and crusty after 10 - 15 years.

[Mike Halliday]

posted about this a while ago its nothing to do with the backing, its compacted soil at the base of the carpet.

look at this photo, guess what colour the soil was outside ( that the dog ran around in all day)

www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=84108.0

[Colin Day]

Great post Geoff.... But this hasn't happened to me yet, so thanks for ecouraging fate

It's funny, but last week someone mentioned bleach like marks in bathroom/toilet carpets due to athletes foot cream... The next 2 days I encountered that very problem

Thanks for the heads up though nonetheless, Geoff

[Dave_Lee]

I agree with Mike on this, compacted deep soil in the carpet. The underlay is probably a crumb rubber from Duralay. This usually has a green top cloth. Contract fitted as in glued to the carpet and restricting airflow through its backing. Those entrances take the initial often wet soil off the shoes and end up heavily soiled, difficult to remove when fitted this way.
Dave.

[james roffey]

Good post thanks for posting, very interesting another example all those years of combined experience shown on the forum helping us less experienced guys

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I'd bonnet buff it and keep the dirt in the bottom.

Shaun

[gwrightson]

posted about this a while ago its nothing to do with the backing, its compacted soil at the base of the carpet.

look at this photo, guess what colour the soil was outside ( that the dog ran around in all day)

www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=84108.0

Not sure about that Mike  as the rest of the carpet was ok through out the entrance, What made me think it was the underlay was the area of carpet that was affected, it was a small area that took a lot of traffic from the exit of 3 rooms , I assumed it taking t the brunt of traffic as people walked and turned from room to room.

geoff

[Jim_77]

It's a woven carpet isn't it Geoff?

If I understand right, this was just as you pre-sprayed.. no wand strokes?

Most woven constructions allow much more air to be pulled up from underneath, so it could either be tramped in dirt or the underlay, doesn't matter which really.  I guess you, her, or both of you have pulled this up when vaccing and then when you've wetted it it's become visible.

Did you carry on and extract it anyway?  I would have done, might have got rid of it but hard to say.  Glad this isn't a common problem, bit of a bummer!