maggie67

  • Posts: 118
Office cleaning v Domestic
« on: April 16, 2005, 09:18:41 am »
Wonder if anyone can help??

 I have been asked to quote for some office cleaning which I haven't done before. I charge around £14 p/h for domestic cleaning and don't feel that I can provide a cleaning service for less (with staff, cleaning materials/equipment, insurance etc.,).

I don't really want to quote for this job if I cannot charge a similar rate. Previous experience, as an employee gave me the impression that a pittance is charged for this type of cleaning!!

Any advice would be gratefully received

Many thanks

Maggie :) 

Singrey

  • Posts: 23
Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2005, 12:11:30 pm »
You wont be anywhere near the ball park at £14/hr. But put it in at that rate anyhow if that’s the lowest your prepared to go – What have you got to lose?
Stuart - Cheshire & Cambridgshire

Jan K

  • Posts: 665
Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2005, 01:49:26 pm »
Don't see any reason why the office job should be charged at a lower rate than your dom jobs. I used to charge the same rate for my Solicitors office cleaning job as I did my dom jobs. I added on parking fees as it was a town centre job. As I was supplying materials I obviously charged them for that too, plus added on a little bit extra as I was the one collecting them.

The biggest hassle was in respect that it was a 3 hour shift to be carried out during normal working hours, but if I didn't get there before 9 I had no chance of getting a parking space nearby that allowed me to park for 3 hours (most were 2 hour max spaces). That caused problems on a fairly regular basis, as I had quite a way to travel to get to the office and found I was driving round looking for adequate parking spaces. I also found it difficult to clean as the Solicitors had had problems with their previous cleaners so wanted me in their during office hours, and that proved impossible to clean properly as I was constantly trying to clean around peoples legs etc etc.

I also had another office job which necessitated the visit to be in the evening or weekend. So price your job to take this into account.

Really it all depends if you want to take on this type of work. I don't know what sort of reputation office cleaning companies have in your area, but I have found that I was getting quite a few calls from disgruntled office peeps who were unhappy with the cleaners they had employed, so I could have taken on quite a few office cleaning contracts. I decided, tho, that I would rather concentrate on dom cleaning as I was getting plenty of work in that area (and still am).

Before I quote anything tho, Maggie,  I would go along and price up the job accordingly.

Good luck!

Jan :)

anyone with facebook can add me at this link ...  jan 'minkeedj' kindon  .... if you can be bothered lol

Musicman

  • Posts: 249
Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2005, 03:41:41 pm »
Maggie if you work on between 1.5 and 2x the wage rate you wont be too far out. For example £6.00 per hour wage rate would equate to between £9.00 and £12.00 per hour chargeable.

Where you pitch your figure after that depends upon the size of the contract (number of cleaners/hours/days a week etc).

Ideally avoid single cleaner contracts, anything where the shift duration is less than 2 hours, and no fewer than 5 days a week.

In your early days you may wish to take on contracts that are less than the ideal to give you a foundation to build upon.

Typically office cleaning contracts are either early morning or early evening as I'm sure you're aware so that has no impact upon the chargeable rate.

The nature of office cleaning work provides regular (daily) income which is not the case with the domestic sector - something that makes it more attractive, and therefore more competitive.

Unlesss you're bidding for a job that no-one else wants I cannot see you getting £14.00 per hour.

Good luck.

Musicman
Success is where hard work meets opportunity!

CMS

Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2005, 07:53:11 am »
Never in a million years will you get £14 per hour unless you're operating in leafy Surrey or somewhere similar.

A good rule of thumb is that the wage content of the charge should be about 60%. Certainly no less than 50%. i.e. if you are going to pay your staff £6.00 per hour you should be charging £10.00 per hour to win it on price and £12.00 per hour if you want to sell it on service (as other contractors will be charging less). This should also include the cost of your materials and equipment depreciation.

I have noticed on this forum that those in the domestic market who are wanting to make that 'leap' into the commercial sector are expecting similar profit margins. They are not there.

Your commercial cleaning portfolio should be made up of many, many,  contracts with small profit margins. These Clients should be so happy with your service that they stay with you year after year.

If you can win business with a big profit margin you are very lucky (in the short term) but that Client will not stay with you for longer than a year (even if you provide a brilliant service) as someone will come in cheaper.

Don't kid yourself that you have such a great relationship with a Client that he will stay with you whatever you charge. He won't as he has to justify his decision to spend the Company's money to his superiors.

To establish 'Solid Foundations' on which to build your business you need Clients who will stay with you for longer than a year.

Try putting up an office block on 3" footings and see what happens. It will fall over!

What you don't want to be doing is building your business from scratch every twelve months!




Tim Downer

  • Posts: 656
Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2005, 08:21:31 am »
Hi Maggie

Was just thinking of all the other comments on this post and what they are saying is basically correct. However, if the contract warrants 2 or maybe 3 cleaning staff, then Yes, you will get a higher markup per hour than compared with just 1 staff member at the site.

Besides, how much per hour do you actually make for yourself out of your £14 per hour charge on the Domestic side? Just make sure that you get similar results from any other work you do.

I have had contracts that I charged around £15 - £18 per hour but had 2 cleaning staff with those contracts to cost in per hour and all the rest of the expenses that you get.....

Let us all know if you get any results, because it will be another good avenue of the cleaning business to get to know and run alongside the domestic cleaning.

Kind Regards

Tim
Tim Downer
Manager

"The difference between Ordinary and Extraordinary.....is that little Extra"

CMS

Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2005, 08:23:21 am »
Hi Maggie

Was just thinking of all the other comments on this post and what they are saying is basically correct. However, if the contract warrants 2 or maybe 3 cleaning staff, then Yes, you will get a higher markup per hour than compared with just 1 staff member at the site.

Why Tim?

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2005, 08:25:45 am »
To clarrify would the £10 an hour charge include transport admin, marketing, ,materials, equipment depreciation etc. 

CMS

Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2005, 08:32:36 am »
It would indeed..............that's why margins are low.

50 contracts making you 10% would give you a far more solid 'base' than 10 contracts making you 50%

Tim Downer

  • Posts: 656
Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2005, 08:46:59 am »
Hi CMS

Why?

Because i could.....!!

After I had supplied .....

* All the equipment, chemicals.
* Staffing.
* Insurances etc.
* Provided Holiday and sickness pay to all the staff.
* Provided cover when staff was sick or on holiday.
* My time to visit the site on a weekly basis.
* Profit for the business and for my wages.....

Then yes i will charge accordingly and make the money i wanted.....plus the tender pack contained all the contract, health and safety details and the usual stuff.....i provided the service a said i would and resolved any problems as quick as i could the best i could. The clients were very happy with that and I never lost any to competitors.....a fact that i was at the time very proud of.

Kind Regards

Tim
Tim Downer
Manager

"The difference between Ordinary and Extraordinary.....is that little Extra"

CMS

Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2005, 09:04:08 am »
There is something else that nobody has mentioned when discussing margins and I think it's important.

I would like you to consider this.................

Are you winning business to provide you with a living (i.e. an income) in the short term or are you trying to build something for the future - something that has a resale value as a viable company when you retire (or earlier)?

Every contract portfolio, (whether that is your intention or not) has a resale value 'as a company' at whatever time that you want to get out.

Now........... if I was looking to buy a cleaning company which of these options do you think would be a safer financial investment?

Company number 1 - has 10 contracts each making a 50% margin. There is a large turnover of contracts because they only stay for a period of 1 year due to them having to look for savings. This company is constantly striving to replace 50 - 70% of its turnover every year.

Company number 2 - has 50 contracts each making a 10% margin. There is little turnover of contracts and 85% of them are running into their third or even fourth year of service. A small sales effort is required to replace the 15% that is lost and to build on that figure, thus increasing the turnover year upon year.

Both of the above companies have the same turnover and the same margins (although company number 2 has it spread over more contracts).

But to me, company number 2 is a far safer investment and for that reason I would have to be prepared to pay more for it!

You see guys, we are not just trying to earn an income. We are building a business that has a Capital Value. Something that we can cash in when we retire or pass on to our kids!

If that is not our eventual aim we shouldn't be working for ourselves - we may as well be working as a Cleaning Manager for someone else.


Musicman

  • Posts: 249
Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2005, 10:27:55 am »
Quote
I have had contracts that I charged around £15 - £18 per hour but had 2 cleaning staff with those contracts to cost in per hour

Tim are you saying that for £15 - £18 per hour you were supplying 2 cleaners - ie. £7.50-£9.00 per man hour?

I cannot understand how you have tried to qualify your answer to CMS as the list of costs is proportionate. For example if a cleaner gets through £1.00 of cleaning materials per week then a 1 cleaner job will cost £1.00 per week and a 3 cleaner job £3.00, the amount doesn't fall as the numbers increase.

If we follow your theory through you would make greater profit per chargeable hour on a 20 cleaner contract than a single one. It just doesn't happen.

Your comments about the Tender pack are irrelevant as the same pack would go out to all potential customers. How can this have an effect on increasing your chargeable rate for slightly larger jobs?

It's like anything in life; if people buy in greater quanties the price falls. Single cleaner contracts yield a greater return per chargeable hour than larger ones - but can be more hassle to run.

I respect you for not losing any contracts, and damn right you should be very proud of that fact.

Musicman
Success is where hard work meets opportunity!

CMS

Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2005, 11:37:37 am »
For those just thinking about moving into the commercial sector - a few comments about the 'type' of work to aim for.

I think Musicman touched on this subject earlier on this thread but I will try and elaborate a little ............

1. Avoid '1 cleaner jobs'. If one of your two cleaners is off sick, the other can cover it in the short term - perhaps on overtime. If you have a 1 cleaner job and she's off sick you could be in trouble.

2. Aim for work where they will give you keys to gain access. As above, if staff are off sick this gives you much more flexibility to cover the work.

3. Avoid work that requires 7 days per work cleaning i.e. Car showrooms, DIY stores etc. Just DON'T touch pubs!

4. Bank holiday cleaning is hard to cover especially over Christmas.

The ideal job...........................

A carpeted office requiring 2-3 cleaners on a Monday to Friday. Access by keys!!!

Good luck.

Musicman

  • Posts: 249
Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2005, 11:49:46 am »
Psst CMS don't tell everyone ;). You've just knocked 5% off the margins of our target business :'(
Success is where hard work meets opportunity!

Fox

  • Posts: 824
Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2005, 03:21:30 pm »
Very good advice already given.  As said previously on this thread commercial work is alot more stable on income than domestic.  Contracts are in place and invoicing issued 52 weeks of the year. 

As for pub contracts - on the whole I agree generally keep away, but do ask questions before you say no.  I have had alot of opportunities to take on public houses but have chosen to only take two so far - why?  Well I get paid weekly, we are key holders so can clean anytime between 1am and 11am and my quotations do NOT include any public holidays, if they require holiday cleaning the cost doubles, plus they spend a fortune on janitorial goods.  Prehaps I'm lucky in my area also as I have a bank of staff waiting for weekend hours.  So before turning away this work ask questions first then make your decision.

In commercial cleaning large office blocks are the best, pref evening cleaning as this allows a time scale factor of morning cleaning in an emergency and it's much easier to staff.  The larger the site - the easier to run.

That's my pennies worth!
Fox

Jan K

  • Posts: 665
Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2005, 05:18:46 pm »
Having very minimal experience in commercial cleaning compared to you other peeps who have posted replies to this one, I was probably very lucky to get away with charging the same as my dom customers, however I maintain you get what you pay for. Having said that, I took into consideration CMS's post of looking at the business from long term/short term points of view, and have to agree it it would make more sense to have more companies making a smaller profit. Surely tho you could have a bit of both types of contract?? :)
anyone with facebook can add me at this link ...  jan 'minkeedj' kindon  .... if you can be bothered lol

maggie67

  • Posts: 118
Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2005, 10:26:59 am »
Thank you all for your input!

I am in a very affluent area so we do manage to charge higher rates, I pay my girls between £7-£8 per hour. It is hard to get good cleaners for less! I am not prepared to charge less buy paying less & providing an unsatisfactory job therefore discrediting our reputation! At present  I am not looking for commercial work for the bulk of my business. However it is something which I would consider on a long term scale as a compliment to my domestic business.

My main efforts are currently in the domestic side of cleaning, partly because most of the girls I currently employ are only available during the day and I want to walk before I can run. However this is a small 1 hour per day, 5 days per week job & requires only 1 member of staff. If they accept the quote I am prepared to give it a go and see how we get on. It may be that I can provide a more competitive quote to the same company a year down the line.

I am very at the forefront when it comes to customer communication, if in the future our services were no longer required I would ask why (from a business sense it would be mad no too!) and re-quote accordingly if it was purely due to price and if it was finacially viable to do so. Not forgetting the possibility of acquiring other contracts in the meantime.

Thanks again for all your perspectives

Maggie :)

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2005, 10:53:20 pm »
Thank you for the information, It must be why Joe Polish has stared clear

I can see the point about building a long term portfolio, providing costings are spot on.

Musicman

  • Posts: 249
Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2005, 12:34:27 am »
Ian, JP would be eaten alive in this game.

The best clean ever or your money back?

He'd be bankrupt within the week!
Success is where hard work meets opportunity!

Len Gribble

  • Posts: 5106
Re: Office cleaning v Domestic
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2005, 06:35:51 pm »
Ian/Musicman

I know of one person, who has adapted JP system for their domestic business.

Len
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other. (Sidcup Kent)