first chewing gum removal job

« **on:** January 25, 2014, 03:40:40 pm »

Bought my hot box on monday and did my first gum removal job yesterday.

Quite enjoyed. Was cleaning the outside of a cafe but wasnt the best site to work on as trades were continually in and out of the cafe as it was a refurb that was behind schedule.

Was cleaning at 90° Is that about right for gum. Got the gum off fairly easily but took slightly longer than planned. Didn't get chance to play with different flows and temperatures.

« **Reply #1 on:** January 25, 2014, 03:51:40 pm »

What burner is it pal? What pump and nozzle were you using? Most prob around between 60-70°C on a single burner presuming a 15LPM coil. 140-160°F.
You could drop your throttle and use a smaller nozzle for more heat.

« **Reply #2 on:** January 25, 2014, 03:57:54 pm »

This one but with a 21lpm coil http://www.pressurewasherworld.co.uk/#!blank/c18m9

A16lpm interpump and 15° fan jet. I never thought of dropping the flow, just considered upping heat to around 120 next time. Didn't have much chance to play as the work area was too crowded and I wanted to get job finished and get out the way.

« **Reply #3 on:** January 25, 2014, 04:18:33 pm »

Look good them mate, first time I've seen them. What size nozzle though? 55?

« **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2014, 04:53:30 pm »

That's the beast mate. A 15 jet nozzle on lance.. Or do you mean connector size from boiler? A firm in Scunny so local to me.

« **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2014, 04:59:50 pm »

No mate, Lee means what size nozzle. 15 degrees is the spread of the fan. With a 16lpm you should be using an 05 size nozzle or even an 055. EDIT: 05 nozzle is perfect for200bar/16lpm
http://server23.sitewizard.co.uk/sites/malcleansenew/images/Info%20Sheets/Nozzle_Chart.pdf

If you want more heat, you use a smaller nozzle, or knock the revs down (if thats possible on your machine)
If you use a smaller nozzle, then it effectively drops the flow down, which in turn gives the hotbox more of a chance to heat the water more. If your machine is only 16lpm, and your hotbox is 21lpm, then you shouldnt need to use smaller nozzles, just turn the thermostat up and away you go.

Best thing to do is buy a few different size nozzles, and have a play with it one weekend.

My machine is 21lpm, and my boiler is only a 15lpm coil, so if i want to get it really hot, i use a smaller nozzle and drop the flow down to about 12lpm or even 10lpm.
I should probably look at getting a new 21lpm coil fitted. anyone know if i can just swap the coil and the casing from 15 to 21?

« **Reply #6 on:** January 25, 2014, 05:05:21 pm »

Ahh with you mate. The fan nozzles a 0.5 but my turbo and fsc is 0.55.

I'm not sure on coil based on that Matt, I assumed it was a 21 but cant be sure now. Might try knocking down the revs next time.

« **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2014, 05:07:18 pm »

How far did you have the thermostat turned up mate? try playing with the thermostat and see what happens, no point knocking the revs down or using smaller nozzles if you dont have to..

« **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2014, 05:10:37 pm »

As Matt said mate. Try a 1504 with throttle down a bit.

We had a 21LPM burner blow up before Christmas. Flow switch stuck on. Back of van all black from smoke.

« **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2014, 05:13:06 pm »

My thermostat has a temperature dial on it, so had it on 90°. Might have a play tomorrow and try 16 LPM at about 120° and then drop flow rate and heat to 90° and see which I prefer.

« **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2014, 05:20:52 pm »

the back of my van is black and my hotbox HASN'T blown up!

Need to buy a 90 degree elbow to use as a chimney to vent it out the back doors.

« **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2014, 05:21:11 pm »

Thats an idea pal, 1504 would drop flow quite nicely and can keep revs up.

Ouch… bet that made you panic a bit lol. Was you working when it blew or packing up for the end of the day/night.

« **Reply #12 on:** January 25, 2014, 05:24:47 pm »

Matt, I used this http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/plumbing-central-heating/ventilation-air-treatment/metal_ducting/Manrose-100mm-Diameter-Semi-Rigid-Aluminium-Hose-11478268?skuId=11988975 and jubilee clipped it over exhaust. Its not brilliantly durable though, gotta extend it properly other wise it wants to split.

Diesel fumes and spill lingers in the back of your van for ages... Gives me a banging headache

« **Reply #13 on:** January 25, 2014, 05:33:24 pm »

My hotbox stopped working yesterday?

Might see if I can get a refund!

« **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2014, 05:33:30 pm »

I never move my thermostat off of 120. For gum I use a 40 nozzle - I have a 21 ltr machine and boiler. Keep the unloader turned right up and set the revs so the gauge shows 200 bar with the trigger open. If you don't have a gauge wind the unloader right in then out a turn, rev it till you get some flow out of the return and then back the revs off till it stops. You need just under 100 degrees at the nozzle and you loose heat all the way along the hose.

« **Reply #15 on:** January 25, 2014, 05:38:35 pm »

Quote from: Jettaway on January 25, 2014, 05:21:11 pm

Thats an idea pal, 1504 would drop flow quite nicely and can keep revs up.

Ouch… bet that made you panic a bit lol. Was you working when it blew or packing up for the end of the day/night.

Yeh was pulling hose 60m away round a corner and BOOOOM!

Flame tube exploded, not checked the coil yet.

Quote from: Jettaway on January 25, 2014, 05:13:06 pm

My thermostat has a temperature dial on it, so had it on 90°. Might have a play tomorrow and try 16 LPM at about 120° and then drop flow rate and heat to 90° and see which I prefer.

°c? It's not gonna do 120°c. Like I said it will do 60-70°c. You mean °F. That dial will be printed with °c upto 150°c. Our Falch do 100°c between the twin burners. Which is 212°F.

Quote from: Matt Gibson on January 25, 2014, 05:20:52 pm

the back of my van is black and my hotbox HASN'T blown up!

Need to buy a 90 degree elbow to use as a chimney to vent it out the back doors.

You don't want a 90 degrees mate, it will choke and you'll have sutt dropping back in. I had a 45 degree. Or go up through roof and have a rain cap.

Quote from: Simon@Pristine Pathways on January 25, 2014, 05:33:24 pm

My hotbox stopped working yesterday?

Might see if I can get a refund!

Did you get a receipt mate?

« **Reply #16 on:** January 25, 2014, 05:50:47 pm »

Did you get a receipt mate?

Only a baseball bat and a train ticket to Marine on Saturday

« **Reply #17 on:** January 25, 2014, 05:57:20 pm »

Which hot box do you guys feel is the best on the market in a price range from £1k- £2k ? Or is there one hotbox out there that can produce 150C but obviously not in that price range . Ed

« **Reply #18 on:** January 25, 2014, 06:41:44 pm »

Si, i'm not going mate.

Going out on the (this word is self modded) in Chester with the missus. It's gonna erupt too.

« **Reply #19 on:** January 25, 2014, 06:46:48 pm »

Quote from: Aqua Power Solutions on January 25, 2014, 05:57:20 pm

Which hot box do you guys feel is the best on the market in a price range from £1k- £2k ? Or is there one hotbox out there that can produce 150C but obviously not in that price range . Ed

That's pure steam Ed.

« **Reply #20 on:** January 25, 2014, 06:57:07 pm »

Quote from: Aqua Power Solutions on January 25, 2014, 05:57:20 pm

Which hot box do you guys feel is the best on the market in a price range from £1k- £2k ? Or is there one hotbox out there that can produce 150C but obviously not in that price range . Ed

What do you want it for?
Hot boxes will only do 80+c@ 15lpm not much more.....regardless of what the generic thermostat is set at.Join two hot boxes together you will get steam...but it gets dangerous. Fittings expand,pipes get soft/explode ,lance triggers get very very hot .

« **Reply #21 on:** January 25, 2014, 07:35:31 pm »

Oh great…. Bought hot box and the thermo is pointless lol.

Guess I'll crank temperature up a bit more

« **Reply #22 on:** January 25, 2014, 07:48:02 pm »

No ..they are good for hot water.Excellent for grease and speeds up most cleaning.
Real steam is a different thing but unless you are stripping paint or similar on a regular basis it a waste.

« **Reply #23 on:** January 25, 2014, 08:56:53 pm »

I fill the kids swimming pool up with hot water

For pressure washing you only need 100 degrees as steam looses its mechanical action and you rely on the heat. I have a 15 ltr boiler and as Chris states it only really gets to 80 but thats why i now have a 21 ltr boiler and run it below 15 ltrs for gum. Its best to get the larger machine and run it at 3/4 capacity - I never ran the 15 ltr machine at anything other than flat out. Its not been out of the container since I built Wallace

« **Reply #24 on:** January 26, 2014, 08:56:35 am »

I suppose that's the advantage of having a portable hot box

, we use 21ltr very rarely use anymore than 10m hose between box to lance, reduce flow as stated achieve over 110 C use it even hotter for paint removal / spills.

« **Reply #25 on:** January 26, 2014, 04:16:33 pm »

Quote from: Great Outdoors and In on January 26, 2014, 08:56:35 am

I suppose that's the advantage of having a portable hot box , we use 21ltr very rarely use anymore than 10m hose between box to lance, reduce flow as stated achieve over 110 C use it even hotter for paint removal / spills.

Doing a paint spill tomorrow night in the city centre. Loads of footprints in every direction. 'kin idiots, why would you step in it?

« **Reply #26 on:** January 26, 2014, 06:14:26 pm »

Quote from: Blast Away on January 26, 2014, 04:16:33 pm

Quote from: Great Outdoors and In on January 26, 2014, 08:56:35 am
I suppose that's the advantage of having a portable hot box , we use 21ltr very rarely use anymore than 10m hose between box to lance, reduce flow as stated achieve over 110 C use it even hotter for paint removal / spills.

Doing a paint spill tomorrow night in the city centre. Loads of footprints in every direction. 'kin idiots, why would you step in it?

done a few where cars have driven thro it .. hey ho pays the bills

« **Reply #27 on:** February 07, 2014, 12:45:23 pm »

On chewing gum jobs do you guys fsc with heat or stay cold and just use boiler for the gum itself.

« **Reply #28 on:** February 07, 2014, 06:21:38 pm »

Quote from: Jettaway on February 07, 2014, 12:45:23 pm

On chewing gum jobs do you guys fsc with heat or stay cold and just use boiler for the gum itself.

Depends how bad the gum drop is, plus weather for me, if its really heavy use mosmatic with heat then spot, if its really cold weather just use cold then spot, surprising how much comes off with just cold.

« **Reply #29 on:** February 07, 2014, 09:47:42 pm »

Interesting read lads as i've just bought a lavor volcano hotbox (21ltr burner) hardley used from fleebay for £450 that I should get delivered mid week.

I've never used hot before so will be after some guidance on here aswell if you don't mind helping me out

Quick question for starters if you don't mind me asking is where is the best place to get decent hoses, lances and tips with the highest rated temp they do so to avoid any future issues using hot/steam.

Many thanks
Smurf

« **Reply #30 on:** February 07, 2014, 11:15:05 pm »

Tbh smurf, your probably best off going to your local hydraulic shop for stuff like that. There a lot cheaper for hoses and connectors plus no p+p!

If I fsc cleaned cold first then gummed with hot would you see the lance marks from gumming? Reason I ask is that on my last job I did this and thought I could see lance marks so went over with again with hot fsc. I never took the change to let it dry to find out. I know its a question I could figure out on a future gum job but thought I'd ask while threads open.

« **Reply #31 on:** February 08, 2014, 06:59:06 am »

Quote from: Jettaway on February 07, 2014, 11:15:05 pm

Tbh smurf, your probably best off going to your local hydraulic shop for stuff like that. There a lot cheaper for hoses and connectors plus no p+p!

If I fsc cleaned cold first then gummed with hot would you see the lance marks from gumming? Reason I ask is that on my last job I did this and thought I could see lance marks so went over with again with hot fsc. I never took the change to let it dry to find out. I know its a question I could figure out on a future gum job but thought I'd ask while threads open.

In general no if it's clean its clean

If its not clean then yes

« **Reply #32 on:** February 08, 2014, 08:13:30 am »

Cheers jettaway...

I've just see this vid and was just wondering what flow rate & psi the pump was set at also the temp of the boiler to get steam like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dJGuRF82-s

It says low flow & pressure but how low do you think and what temp is that?

« **Reply #33 on:** February 08, 2014, 08:33:45 am »

Everything in life is easy

Follow the link and read the spec. Click on the RH side.

http://tensiduk.com/torik-stone-cleaning-system-product-information/

Rob (no charge

)

« **Reply #34 on:** February 08, 2014, 09:00:28 am »

Thanks... I've seen the spec of the kit but was just wondering if anyone knew what it would be set on to do delicate work like masonary cleaning as in the vid. Reason being I have a honda 15lpm 3000 psi gearbox driven interpump pressure washer that I'm guessing would be no good on jobs like that when using it with a lavor hotbox 21ltr as the flow rate and pressure would be still too high even if running the pump at low as I could.

What do you think?

Quote from: M-CLEAN UK LTD on February 08, 2014, 08:33:45 am

Everything in life is easy

Follow the link and read the spec. Click on the RH side.

http://tensiduk.com/torik-stone-cleaning-system-product-information/

Rob (no charge )

« **Reply #35 on:** February 08, 2014, 12:58:34 pm »

Quote from: Smurf on February 08, 2014, 08:13:30 am

Cheers jettaway...

I've just see this vid and was just wondering what flow rate & psi the pump was set at also the temp of the boiler to get steam like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dJGuRF82-s

It says low flow & pressure but how low do you think and what temp is that?

The flow rate will be between 2 and 5 litres per minute as for psi probably about 2000psi

« **Reply #36 on:** February 08, 2014, 01:13:47 pm »

Thanks Trevor as thought the flow would be very low.

Think I will now need to buy a suitable rated pump (prefered electric driven). Can anyone recommend a decent one that is not going to cost silly money.

« **Reply #37 on:** February 08, 2014, 01:42:39 pm »

Quote from: Smurf on February 08, 2014, 01:13:47 pm

Thanks Trevor as thought the flow would be very low.

Think I will now need to buy a suitable rated pump (prefered electric driven). Can anyone recommend a decent one that is not going to cost silly money.

Can i just ask, why do you want to build something like the Thermowhatsit? Do you constantly do heritage rated restoration/cleaning? or do you do some gum removal, graffiti removal etc?

If you start to get into steam, as Chris pointed out, you need specialist hoses/guns/etc as the highest rated jetwas ones will melt, warp and blow.

I might be missing the point of your exercise here, but wont your hotbox, running with your current machine, be suitable for the work you do?

« **Reply #38 on:** February 08, 2014, 02:00:49 pm »

I'm trying to work out if I can put a system together myself instead of buying a really expensive bit of kit that probably would not be used much anyway.

Most of the time yes the kit that I have will do but on some delicate stuff I don't want to be blasting the cr"p out of it either if that makes sence.

« **Reply #39 on:** February 08, 2014, 03:07:50 pm »

This is pure steam - I wish you well on building your own - there's no debate on the nozzle temperature either, definitely 150 degrees Celsius

Rob

« **Reply #40 on:** February 08, 2014, 03:15:22 pm »

That's a job we did removing chewing gum from the entrance to Croydon University Hospital. We were inside with people everywhere.

Same on the outside. Possibly one of the most demanding jobs I have done.

Rob

« **Reply #41 on:** February 08, 2014, 04:23:13 pm »

Is that an osprey steamer you are using there rob?

« **Reply #42 on:** February 08, 2014, 04:27:06 pm »

It's one of these

http://www.miragreen.ie/

Rob

« **Reply #43 on:** February 08, 2014, 05:34:08 pm »

Quote from: M-CLEAN UK LTD on February 08, 2014, 04:27:06 pm

It's one of these

http://www.miragreen.ie/

Rob

That machine is totally different than a Thermotech in that it is steam but unlike Thermotech it is only low pressure hence the need for the wire brush to loosen the gum. Personally i have never used a thermotech and have only seen it demonstrated very briefly but it did look verty effective. I use my 21 ltr 3000 psi hot machine split between two lances with 03 15 degree nozzles used on each lance so each lance has about 10 litres a minute flowrate at 3000 psi and this works extremely well but i can see the advantage of the thermotech in heavily pedestrianized areas due to the low flowrate but at the price they want for them cant see me buying one

« **Reply #44 on:** February 08, 2014, 05:53:58 pm »

Couldn't have used any flow rate other than the steam on that job Trev. We were actually inside the main entrance.

I know it's a different machine, I think we have spoken about this before.

I have had a change of heart on the machines.

I would buy a Thermatech because it would compliment where we are going as a business.

It wont happen this year, unless we have a blinder

Rob

« **Reply #45 on:** February 09, 2014, 09:18:07 am »

The lads are up at a hospital in Slough this weekend - chewing gum removal to lots of paths and entrances.

They are using a DOFF 5ltr per min at 150 degrees C - Similar to Thermatech as well as a 30 ltr per min 200 BAR ZETA coupled up to an Aquila Hotbox

Can't wait to get the Falch T3H next week...........(If I can find more employees to start working for us and they can use it!)

« **Reply #46 on:** February 09, 2014, 10:14:27 am »

Did you buy the second hand one

Rob

« **Reply #47 on:** February 09, 2014, 04:19:19 pm »

Quote from: M-CLEAN UK LTD on February 09, 2014, 10:14:27 am

Did you buy the second hand one

Rob

Agreed to buy it next week - new ones are crazy money

« **Reply #48 on:** February 09, 2014, 08:47:43 pm »

I'll come and work for you Darren. Yeh baby!!

Rob

« **Reply #49 on:** September 24, 2014, 08:55:04 pm »

I`ve just been asked to give a quote to remove gum and powerwash 1,200 metre of paving from a retail park. (Sports DDirect, Next etc). I have a Matrix gum machine which I reckon would take a week to remove the gum alone before power washing it all. Would I be better off using a machine like a Thermatech to clean and remove gum in one go?

« **Reply #50 on:** September 25, 2014, 01:55:43 pm »

Clive - No!

The Jos/Doff/Thermatech whatever they are called this month are too slow.

I worked on a Tesco storefront last night, block paving to three sides, priced it for 2 nights, finished in one, with cold water alone. I would say the gum was medium density.

No matter how you clean the flooring you will still have to spot remove gum, i've got dry steam machines and if it was my job I would pressure wash the flooring, have two lads behind spot removing gum, with either the dry steam machines or hot pressure washers.

If you don't have the set up either hot pressure wash the lot, with spot gum removal or cold pressure wash the lot and then go back and hot water the gum and rinse.

Take my word for it that a hot pressure washer will be quicker than a 7 LPM Thermatech box. If you want to ring I will explain

Rob

« **Reply #51 on:** September 27, 2014, 12:40:03 am »

Cheers Rob - Appriciate that!