Would you pay for advice?

« **on:** February 23, 2006, 09:59:14 pm »

Ok.......so how do I put this without appearing to blow my own trumpet?

I've thought long and hard about this since someone posted earlier today something to the effect that I should start a cleaning consultancy.

Firstly, I haven't got a big ego and am somewhat flattered (no, embarrassed) that anyone thinks my advice is worth paying for.

Some of you know that CMS Limited chooses to support a charity each year (there's a page on our website) and this year we are supporting Dogs Trust (formerly the Canine Defence League).

I don't personally want to make any money out of this but if I could make a few quid for our chosen charity......then why not?

There are a few 'Cleaning Manual' type things floating around on ebay. Some are good and some aren't but I think that for a 'newbie' the cost could be a bit steep (I think I saw £58 floating around somewhere).

I thought of producing a number of 'fact sheets' going through all the stages of running a cleaning company right from 'Getting the appointment' through 'quoting', setting up a contract, quality monitoring etc. etc. and so it goes on.

I was thinking maybe one a month to be made avilable with all the supporting documentation, letters etc. This could be available for a paypal payment of say £2-3 per 'lesson'.

It's just a thought and if only 10 people bought it each month we would have another £360 to donate to the Dogs Trust.

What are your thoughts?

Would anyone find my advice worth paying £2 for? I think the systems and documentation I use are worth that to a newbie, don't you?

Please don't reply back saying "who the hell does he think he is?" or words to that effect. I absolutely DO NOT think that I am better than anyone else. It's just that I have the time to do this and want to boost our charitable donation.

My wife has just come up with a good idea...............

Maybe if I came up with the 12 'subject matters' and posted them I could then produce the first months for free. Then if you want the other eleven you 'buy' them.

Any comments?

« **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:02:03 pm »

i think its a cracking "win win" idea and i cannot think ofanyone else better suited to take on such a task.

chris

« **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:14:13 pm »

hi karl,
well things have certainly kick off tonight. LOL.

firstly, lets just say, before i found this forum, i had purchased the point2point handbook and cd.

which i read front to back several times over.

ok here's the good bit.......if you want to run an agency then it's fine.

i don't, ok,

it gives a bit of info into the domestic side of cleaning, wow!!!!!

the cd templates were very handy though, although i had to alter them to suit my wording and there mistakes also.

at the time i thought it was good value for money.

but the guidence from you guys is far more value, tried and tested and free.

i had an e-mail earlier this evening from someone asking me what i thought about point2point, will this person please reveil them selves.

i will not devulge any info without not know who you are.....

personnaly, anyone planning on buying it, don't.

ok now to karl,
i would purchase your methods, more for the real cleaning business side of things.

lynn

« **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:28:15 pm »

Hi

Ive just registered tonight on here as a newbie, and im looking forward to reading all the threads, so as a newbie who is just starting out i would gladly pay a few pound a month for some information from an experienced person, also knowing it is going to charity is a really good idea.

CP CLEANING

« **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2006, 11:07:27 pm »

Karl,

That's a great idea and for a good cause.

So when do you plan to produce the first edition?

Arthur

« **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2006, 11:28:53 pm »

Karl

A lot of what you have said over the months has made sense to a lot of us on the forum, and you have always been kind and generous in giving people your time ad your comments/advice.
Even regarding your web site - Risk Assessments on there and the cost calculator - and two of us today have bigged up the cost calculator!! Both must have taken you a lot of time to produce. And how many of us would freely put this up on our web sites for all to see??

You said that you are not better than the rest of us - but you do have the experience that we haven't had....and you do have a way of putting your thoughts across that do make sense and if you could produce the articles that you mentioned in the same way, a lot of us would pay for that experience and you would make some pennies out of it too......but.....fair play to you for giving it to charity, a worthy cause too.

Well done mate and i hope a lot of us can donate a lot of money to that charity.

Regards

Tim

Why are the last couple of posters still on at this time of the night??

Good night to you all and catch up with you all in a couple of hours time!!

« **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2006, 11:29:50 pm »

Karl,
Just go ahead and do it.
Kind regards,
Arthur

« **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2006, 09:17:42 am »

CMS

You know me - always one to find a question!

Quote

It's just that I have the time to do this

I know you enjoy helping others and you want to boost the money you donate to charity but if you have spare time on your hands would it not be better to spend it growing your business? You could donate some of the profit made from these sales to boost your charitable donation and at the same time grow your business which is your main goal for retirement.

Afterall you being a business person will understand more than most that any spare time should be invested back into your business - your not going to retire on the sale of fact sheets now are you?

Obviously this post is just an observation and my opinion - of course it matters not to me what you do with your time - I am just curious what the motivation is.

Fox

« **Reply #8 on:** February 24, 2006, 11:32:32 am »

HI CMS
We use a firm of specialist working at height health and safety consultants
every time they come out to one of our sites they charge us £600 per day
per man.

In December last year I had to consult with a specialist employment solicitor
he charged us £170 per hour

I think the advise you give on this forum is every bit as valuable as the advise
I pay other specialtists to provide for me , so I think you may want to
charge a tad more than £2-3 .

« **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2006, 11:45:28 am »

Karl.

I think I would be happy to subscribe.

As Ive said before your Sales Method post was excellent.

Better Copy it before it gets pulled

« **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2006, 12:43:59 am »

Oooo, come on Fox, 2 quid AND it goes to a worthwhile cause.

I'm an 'old hand' and I'd pay £2 to read Karls late night ramblings.

« **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2006, 01:47:30 am »

nice piccy gary!
its funny seeing what people look like, they are never what you would expect

I'd buy Karls business brain neverming fact sheets, but i cant afford millions and squillians of £££

« **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2006, 08:56:47 am »

Garyj - I never said that it wasn't a good idea and I never said it was wrongly priced. I just wanted to know what the motivation was and why he would spend time on that rather than growing the business! It will afterall take a bit of time to put together.

So for you I suggest get off your high horse and stop brown nosing! And for the rest of you who think I am a nasty c*w with that statement then you would be right!!!

Fox

« **Reply #13 on:** February 25, 2006, 09:30:43 am »

I can think of lots of reasons.

To be helpful.

To put somthing back.

to test the market before publishing worldwide.

However having to produce copy every month could be the hard part.

« **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2006, 11:33:21 am »

Now, now you lot.........................

Firstly, Fox, I have the time for a number of reasons.

Yes, I want to build a business and sell it. CMS is a new business and it's growing well but you have to remember this...................it's the third time I've done it. I sort of retired early a couple of years ago but couldn't leave it alone.

So if I spend a few hours each week putting together something that helps newbies AND a charity, then so what. I'm still involved with cleaning.

Anyway, since I made that post the other day I've given a lot of consideration to this. I might go a little further and produce something a bit more than that (hush hush at the moment).

Watch this space!

« **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2006, 11:40:55 am »

MMmmmmmm......sounds interesting!!

« **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2006, 12:16:29 pm »

I will just add my 2 pennies worth, to me to suggest selling advice goes against everything this board is about, loads of people benefit from these postings and its a two way thing, one person may know a lot about a topic and give his/her advice on it, and then that person then becomes the recipient as another person helps them, so its a give, and receive thing. the minute you start adding a price tag, no matter what the good intentions are, you start a process that will ultimate destroy the information process, although CMS knows a lot about the cleaning industry, imaging if some one pays for advice on a cleaning issue, and then CMS posts a question related to marketing? Would the person who just paid for info who has a degree in marketing give advice to CMS for free? I doubt it, and then you will see destruction process start along with ill feeling. And I for one will get fed up of that. Every person on this board has something to offer, it’s not all cleaning issues. Take a look at Martins posts before and after he set up his cleaning consultancy? I rest my case. I don’t want to sound pedantic about this topic but I for one think things should stay as they are. A community of well intended people giving help to each other in what is a difficult industry.
There, I am off me soap box now; I shall light blue touch paper and wait for the replies. Kind regards Phil

« **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2006, 12:28:29 pm »

Quote from: prestige1 on February 25, 2006, 12:16:29 pm

...Take a look at Martins posts before and after he set up his cleaning consultancy? ...

VERY GOOD POINT, Phil!

I would, still suggest to Karl (CMS) to go ahead with his idea, creating something similar to point2point “stuff”, just for commercial cleaning sector.

Kind regards,
Arthur

« **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2006, 12:35:40 pm »

HI CMS
Why dont you offer an on-line consultancy service that people can pay a monthly
subscription fee if they are intrested.

« **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2006, 12:51:22 pm »

I think that Prestige1 has a very good point. As a regular contributor to forums (not just cleaning ones) I agree with everything he says.

For the record though, these 'factsheets' (for want of a better word) were not going to be offered through this forum. They were to be offered through the 'charity' page on our website.

However, as what was just a seed of an idea has caused such controversy I am not going to bother.

It makes me wonder though, when i read other posts on here.

Do we see Mancharry giving free advice on building websites? Of course we don't. He's on here to sell his website building services - and I doubt very much if that's going to charity.

It's a sad day indeed when you can't even try and do some good anymore without someone trying to knock it.

« **Reply #20 on:** February 25, 2006, 01:06:08 pm »

Quote from: CMS on February 25, 2006, 12:51:22 pm

... I am not going to bother...

Karl,

That is for you to decide, however, you could still be an active member of this forum and at the same time do anything you want to do. My personal point of view is that there is a lack of “point2point stuff” for commercial sector. I do not think my business will go into commercial sector in the near future, so please do not think that I am so desperate for that stuff, just wanted to give my opinion.

As far as mancharry’s service is concerned, since he compared himself to the GOD, I am not going to use his service. I would also like to say that I personally do not like “cleanitup god” description which is currently used to indicate activity of the members of this forum.

Kind regards,
Arthur

« **Reply #21 on:** February 25, 2006, 01:10:39 pm »

Quote from: AJCleaningServices on February 25, 2006, 01:06:08 pm

...I would also like to say that I personally do not like “cleanitup god” description which is currently used to indicate activity of the members of this forum.

I would prefer to be "Cleanitup Sir"

or "Cleanitup Lord"

« **Reply #22 on:** February 25, 2006, 01:24:14 pm »

I'm not too keen on that either.

« **Reply #23 on:** February 25, 2006, 02:06:05 pm »

Hi again
CMS I think to keep your fact sheet separate to this forum is a good Idea and you can point people to that. And would also suggest if you’re actually putting together information sheets then why not charge for your extra time but like I said keep it separate to this board, and don’t denies us of your quick replies of information on this Forum.
I do agree with you that some are a little bit shy in giving there own advice but will soak up every one else’s ideas, but your not one of them CMS, and everyone knows this. I for one have benefited from your suggestions and Ideas. I am sure reading the previous posts you have tremendous respect and have always given sound advice and long may it continue.
Kind regards Phil

« **Reply #24 on:** February 25, 2006, 06:06:13 pm »

Some of the posts in this thread are pathetic. why cant people understand that some people gain satisfaction by helping others and giving to a worthwhile charity.

Having read CMS's posts they are all usefull and from a very genuine and informed person The cynical atitude shown by some is terible.

Good luck Karl

« **Reply #25 on:** February 25, 2006, 06:45:00 pm »

Paul do your harsh words refer to my posts?

« **Reply #26 on:** February 25, 2006, 06:50:10 pm »

No not specificly, they refer only to the cynical undertones expressed.

Please do not take my comments personaly.

Paul

« **Reply #27 on:** February 25, 2006, 06:51:24 pm »

Quote from: CP CLEANING on February 23, 2006, 10:28:15 pm

Hi

Ive just registered tonight on here as a newbie, and im looking forward to reading all the threads, so as a newbie who is just starting out i would gladly pay a few pound a month for some information from an experienced person, also knowing it is going to charity is a really good idea.

CP CLEANING

i totally agree. I would sign up x

« **Reply #28 on:** February 25, 2006, 07:11:00 pm »

karl,
start typing,
i'll be your 1st guaranteed customer to purchase your valuable information,
as as an animal lover, i WELCOME any amout you donate to these charitys.

lynn

« **Reply #29 on:** February 25, 2006, 07:52:16 pm »

Paul
I suggest you read my posts again, there was no attempt to be Cynical or pathetic, I passed my opinion, that’s what this board is all about, and you should pass your opinion without getting personal. If you expressed your thoughts on the discussion then you might even sway me to your view, for me this topic is nothing to do with CMS'S could intentions it’s the principle behind it. If you remember back, there where many posts by Martin he shared his wealth of information free of charge, he now charges £250 for the privilege and posts very little. This board is great for asking a question and getting an instant reply or advice. People make a good living out off selling information, take a look at EBAY, I would like to think of this forum as free from all that and would like to think we are building a community of friendship and advice with out personal attacks. If CMS has the time to prepare fact sheets etc and enjoys doing that for people then by all means do so, and if as result of using this service then let them make a donation to the charity of his choice, but to start putting price tags on info will be the demise of this site. Once again this is only my opinion and are happy to debate it (with out personal attacks on the content of the posts) kind regards Phil

« **Reply #30 on:** February 25, 2006, 08:43:43 pm »

Phil has made a good point, I cannot disagree with it.

The person, who he mentioned, stopped being an active member of this forum, trying to focus only on selling his knowledge here instead of sharing it.

I do not see anything wrong with his intention to benefit from his knowledge, however I doubt that many (if any) members of this forum decided to buy his service at that high price, because if he does not give his advice here others will, no problem here.

What happened, in the end of the day:

The forum “has virtually lost” a member with a great experience and knowledge in the building clean industry

The member has not gained much from his silence

The new buildins still being cleaned.

Who is the winner – nobody.

As I said before:

Quote from: AJCleaningServices on February 25, 2006, 01:06:08 pm

Karl,
... could still be an active member of this forum and at the same time do anything you want to do. My personal point of view is that there is a lack of “point2point stuff” for commercial sector...

Nothing personal,
Kind regards,
Arthur

« **Reply #31 on:** February 25, 2006, 08:51:40 pm »

Phil, my coment was not aimed specificly at you , however you seem to feel it is.

I mearly felt that a worthwhile and genuine idea to raise money for a worthwhile charity and at the same time help others was being unfairly criticised.

Yes CMS is running buisines however this does not mean all his actions have an ulterior personal profit raising motive. I have given advice to several businesses starting up localy in the same line of work. I gained no profit from this only the knowledge that they might avoid making some of the costly mistakes i made when starting up.

If everyone's posts were disected for ulterior motive then very few would bother to post let alone reply.

Regards Paul

« **Reply #32 on:** February 25, 2006, 10:21:40 pm »

I suppose it's time for me to pass my comment.

I think both sides have a valid argument. On the one hand I do not want to detract from all that this forum is supposed to be. On the other I made a genuine offer to produce more than the normal bit of advice and make a bit (and I mean a bit) for our chosen charity.

However, this discussion has prompted me to think about going a lttle further than the fact sheets..................

I suppose if I'm going to get criticised for something I may as well make a bit myself.

One of the subjects that always comes up on here is "How do I cost Commercial Cleaning"?

I can keep on repeating the advice (and will continue to do so) but wouldn't it be much better to have a 'tool' of some sort that you could use.

With this in mind I have decided to produce the ultimate 'cost calculator' for commercial cleaning. It will be a multi-sheet Excel spreadsheet which can be used to calculate/check cleaning costs and can be used by a service provider or end user.

There is more about it on our website but I will add this................................

It is not meant to replace the advice I give on here. It is to enhance it.

Advice about costing is one thing. Having something to take away and use is quite another.

And who gave me the idea? You lot, of course...........................thank you

www.cmscleaning.com/Cleansheet.htm

« **Reply #33 on:** February 25, 2006, 10:34:33 pm »

Quote from: CMS on February 25, 2006, 10:21:40 pm

...And who gave me the idea? You lot, of course...........................thank you ...

This is the point which I missed in my previous post, this forum can help both sides, from one side it helps to understand which kind of info is on real demand from another this forum provide a real feed back, which help to update and/or adjust the info for the others…

I do not pretend to have a last word here,
Best wishes,
Arthur

« **Reply #34 on:** February 26, 2006, 12:07:52 am »

Quote from: Fox on February 25, 2006, 08:56:47 am

Garyj - I never said that it wasn't a good idea and I never said it was wrongly priced. I just wanted to know what the motivation was and why he would spend time on that rather than growing the business! It will afterall take a bit of time to put together.

So for you I suggest get off your high horse and stop brown nosing! And for the rest of you who think I am a nasty c*w with that statement then you would be right!!!

Fox

First of all thanks, thats the best thing you've posted for ages. Thats the old Fox we loved all those years ago.

Never been called a brown noser before either, think I've been called everything from a s*!^ stirring numpty to a complete useless tosser to a maverick, but never that one.
This forum is very good with excellent advice, but there are some gapeing holes in things like H&S, employment law, COSHH & pricing that most people on here know but are unwilling to share.

There are loads of people on here that are selling all the time, especially on the carpet cleaning section and to a degree on the window cleaning section to, no doubt some have profited immensely. One guy recently posted an advertisement on C/C section selling his own marketing CD he had created, everyone thought he was great for that, he's selling that for £25, one manufacturer I can think of has created a whole new business on the back of these boards, he is LOVED for that. Someone comes on here and says he's going to make a few pound for a hedgehog hospital or whatever and gets slatted. Don't blame Karl for saying he's not bothering now, I'd have said the same, only wouldn't have put it so well.

I'd be interested to know what Karl thought of my post. I bet he wondered if I was taking the pee or not.

« **Reply #35 on:** February 26, 2006, 12:15:33 am »

BTW, Martin1984's charges are £600, not £250. Again a good price if you want to learn how to get into that lucrative business. Of course though since the post advertising this service went live he doesn't seem to be posting so much except to say how busy he is and how much money he is making, but thats marketing. No one said anything against him doing this!!!!

« **Reply #36 on:** February 26, 2006, 12:24:51 am »

its for charity why not give £2 per month anyway

« **Reply #37 on:** February 26, 2006, 12:32:33 am »

Quote from: spa cleaning services on February 26, 2006, 12:24:51 am

its for charity why not give £2 per month anyway

WOW, with advice like that after only 5 posts I don't know how I've managed without you. BRILLIANT.
Did it take you long to think of that or was it spur of the moment?

« **Reply #38 on:** February 26, 2006, 01:21:09 am »

garyj you better go back to the pub and have another drink you might come back and have something good to say about someone
CHEERS

« **Reply #39 on:** February 26, 2006, 01:26:10 am »

Haven't been drinking, watched the ice skatting and the boxing. I COULD have spent the time advertising my business or creating some factsheets, but wasted it by watching TV.
Each to there own I suppose.

Yesterday a brown noser, today a miserable git without a good word to say. Can't please everyone I suppose

« **Reply #40 on:** February 26, 2006, 01:29:04 am »

bad weekend then lol

« **Reply #41 on:** February 26, 2006, 07:59:09 pm »

I am concerned about people using this and other Forum and then starting to use it to charge for their advise.

however Karl was asking a small sum and the money is going to charity, I do not think it will stop him posting here. and will hopefully be avaiable through his Web Site

Regarding The Gods I agree

Ive just had notification from another Forum that you will in future have to post a passport size photo

Im sure Woodman your Moderator will pass your concerns on to Mike

« **Reply #42 on:** February 26, 2006, 08:41:18 pm »

Quote from: Ian Gourlay on February 26, 2006, 07:59:09 pm

...Regarding The Gods I agree...

Ian,

Thanks for that

Quote from: Ian Gourlay on February 26, 2006, 07:59:09 pm

...Ive just had notification from another Forum that you will in future have to post a passport size photo...

People can post any photos. How can you make sure that they post the real once? What is the point? My photo is on the front page of my web: www.cleaningforyou.co.uk. But some people may not wish to show thier faces as they do not wish to be accosiated with the cleaning industry…

Just my opinion,

Kind regards,
Arthur

« **Reply #43 on:** February 27, 2006, 12:19:24 am »

Art,

Im not saying its a good idea,

Just a bit supprised to read it this morning.

Funny there was a trend in this section to have a decent photo of poster but they all have disapeared/

Ian

« **Reply #44 on:** February 27, 2006, 02:19:00 pm »

Hi

Having been away for a while I've only just been directed to this topic.

I've recently been sent 'a business start-up package' a member bought from another at the end of last year. The majority of the content has been taken from this forum including one post which was reproduced entirely word for word. It's not the first time this has happened and I'm sure it won't be the last.

It is a little annoying that the forum is provided free of charge and yet a growing number of members see it as an opportunity to profit from it's content.

Considerable changes are being planned for the site but the format will largely remain the same. It will be a free resource provided for those that want to make use of it.

I don't want to offend CMS and I wish him well with his charity fundraising, however, we will not support any third party who intends to charge for advice that is largely available free of charge here. If anyone wants to provide a formal 'guide' that is available to all our members then we may consider a direct donation to a charitable cause if it was deemed to be a genuine proposal. It would, however, need to be provided here, rather than on someone else's website.

Anyone that would like to forward such a proposal should contact me directly rather than post it as a separate topic on the forum.

Regards

Mike Boxall - Forum Administrator

« **Reply #45 on:** February 27, 2006, 02:49:33 pm »

Hi Mike

Thank you for your comments, and no, you haven't offended me.

If you read back through the posts on this topic you will find that on no less than three occasions I have withdrawn the offer to produce these 'factsheets' to raise money for our adopted charity.

This is due entirely to the controversy that this has caused.

I shall continue to offer what advice I can to all those 'newbies' and CMS Limited will continue to support our chosen charity.

Regards

Karl

CMS Limited

« **Reply #46 on:** February 28, 2006, 05:29:40 pm »

Quote from: Ian Gourlay on February 27, 2006, 12:19:24 am

...Funny there was a trend in this section to have a decent photo of poster but they all have disapeared...

Ian, you sould have noticed that more and more members of this forum use their photos as avatar, so may after some time "we all be facing each other here"

, which is nice

Kind regards,
Arthur