marketing a window cleaning business

« **on:** July 18, 2009, 11:55:00 pm »

I am considering doing a marketing course in window cleaning. Has anybody any experience on these courses. Any good ones out there.

« **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2009, 01:50:49 am »

Didn't know there was any?

« **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2009, 09:52:15 am »

you mean the one at Ionics?

Dont bother. Read and ask questions at the forum instead.

Just learn normal marketing methods and adapt them for your business.

« **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2009, 06:50:52 pm »

GWCS

Why not bother ?

Do you listen to a guy who had a massive window cleaning business, then moved on to own the best wfp sales business with fantastic marketing, or do you listen to a guy off the forum.

To me its a no brainer

« **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2009, 07:17:26 pm »

Quote from: Dave morris @ st-ives on July 19, 2009, 06:50:52 pm

GWCS

Why not bother ?

Do you listen to a guy who had a massive window cleaning business, then moved on to own the best wfp sales business with fantastic marketing, or do you listen to a guy off the forum.

To me its a no brainer

Craig knows his stuff, but there are a lot of people on these courses, all looking at different things for their business

Mainly residential, mainly commercial, only commercial blue chip companies.

The people that happened to be on the course with were not that impressed with the overall content, because he had to cover such a wide range. A lot of people also wanted to know how to "price" this was not given. Pricing up is a large factor in marketing.

I personally dont think it was a complete waste of time, but i dont think i received value for money either, taking into account travelling costs as well as the course costs etc.

I would also say that for the WFP course, but i suppose i can prove ive had training - so in effect just paying for a certificate of training.

I would see how you want to develop and take your business, and then find out how to specifically market that plan you want to follow.

So theres my experience of the course, which was initially asked for. Others may have a completely different one?

« **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2009, 01:48:26 pm »

I need another kick start on marketing, so might book myself on the course.

« **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2009, 05:48:34 pm »

I found the BWCA course OK.
It gave me a few new angles to explore when I'm ready and if I choose to. Some of it I wouldn't do the way that was stated.
I suppose that's fine though. Take on board stuff you may have a use for someday and leave the rest behind. In fact, don't totally dismiss anything I suppose without trying it (or a version of it) first.

« **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2009, 11:45:32 am »

I have booked myself on the marketing course on the 30th July at Swindon

« **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2009, 10:17:15 pm »

thanks for the feedback guys, yes its the Ionics/BWCA course in Swindon. Since I would be coming from Ireland and have all the associated costs and time away from work etc, I'll give it a miss this time and think about it for next time.

« **Reply #9 on:** July 28, 2009, 07:47:41 pm »

2 days to go

woo woo

« **Reply #10 on:** July 28, 2009, 10:42:54 pm »

Dave, let me know how it goes if you dont mind, Thanks.

« **Reply #11 on:** July 29, 2009, 09:11:15 am »

I sure will

1 day to go yee ha

« **Reply #12 on:** July 29, 2009, 06:30:07 pm »

Hi Dave I'm on the same course later in the year please let us know how you get on.

« **Reply #13 on:** July 29, 2009, 08:08:34 pm »

Will do

got to get up at 5.30, but I am taking a very very fast car, so I will munch up them miles

« **Reply #14 on:** July 29, 2009, 10:56:32 pm »

I went on it and to be honest if you have been window cleaning for any legnth of time most of the things he tells you you already know.
Having listened to Craig at seminars in the past I was hoping to get more from it .

« **Reply #15 on:** July 30, 2009, 04:00:03 pm »

I thought Craig was no longer involved with Ionics and more of a back seat advisor?

« **Reply #16 on:** July 30, 2009, 05:41:12 pm »

Craig did the one that I went on, that was only a few months ago

« **Reply #17 on:** July 30, 2009, 11:38:53 pm »

its your choice but i think its a waste of time and money. Them guys are there to take your money and my only give you more questions you want answering when there finished. I think just asking guys in the forum and using common sense youll get a long way for no cost at all. Think about all business services before you bother with them because their business is to convince you you need them when in reality youll be suprised at what you really know and can do you just havent realised it yourself

« **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2009, 05:44:12 pm »

Platinum

You really havent got a clue have you ?

Dave

« **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2009, 09:27:13 pm »

Quote from: Dave morris @ st-ives on July 31, 2009, 05:44:12 pm

Platinum

You really havent got a clue have you ?

Dave

Sorry Dave, I agree somewhat with platinum and I have first hand knowledge of the courses.

I remember being led around the workshop showing the wfp manufacture etc on one of the courses, it had nothing to do with the course, it was just a sales ploy!

Craig is a business man, he knows how to take money from you. He can give some good advice but after all your paying for it, whereas you can get the same advise by asking specific questions to a selected few on CIU or other forums.. The courses are fairly expensive also taking into account your travelling arrangements, missing a days work etc, could well be not worth going on.

So Dave what did you learn on the course, anything you didn't already know? Did you actually find it worth while in time away from business and the expenditure associated in the course and travelling?

Was there nothing presented you could have asked some experienced people already in the business for free by way of a chat?

« **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2009, 10:28:34 pm »

It cost me £145 for the course £120 in petrol, time away from work and yes it was worth every penny.

The course did give me a boost i needed, it also shown me I have been barking up the wrong trees over the last couple of years, I already run a successful business employing 4 window cleaners and I have 3 vans, so you would think i know what i am doing.

The course shown me a few little pointers which will help me re focus to grow even faster.

You take out of these courses what you want, you can either say "load of rubbish" or you can put into practice some of the ideas you have been given.

Gwcs

When did you do the marketing course ?

« **Reply #21 on:** July 31, 2009, 10:30:41 pm »

GWCS

Just seen your avatar and the scrolling writing, say no more !!!

« **Reply #22 on:** July 31, 2009, 10:55:53 pm »

Quote from: Dave morris @ st-ives on July 31, 2009, 10:30:41 pm

GWCS

Just seen your avatar and the scrolling writing, say no more !!!

ahh, ive not changed that, going from what the admin have to say regarding H&S i dont think the MGWC are worth continuing or even promoting with but thats a seperate story. lol

I did the marketing course last year around this time, but to be honest i have found more help from kevin the wcmm. Learning about what and why peolple chose who they do, and what is the factors that will get them to go with me for the maximum money i can get from them.

I want to have as little customers as possible and gain as much money as possible residential only. I have no interest in pursuing commercial clients, or having large regular resi rounds

This was not discussed by BWCA at the time..

« **Reply #23 on:** August 01, 2009, 01:33:47 am »

Id save my money and try different methods of canvassing and pricing etc.....
Id canvass differently , see which seemed more effective and suited me and pursue that route.
I also believe that when canvassing you need to keep it short and sweet and above all be very confident
If you get a plan of what you want from your work go and make it happen. If your self motivated you dont need someone making money off you by telling you how to get where you wanna be you just need to put more effort into finding that route for yourself. Why pay someone to make decisions for you because not every business model will suite every business but i believe that the trial and error method gained me more business skills in 3years than if id have spent 5years being told how to run a business.

Just remember as businessmen we are here to use our own innititive so why do you think its logical to pay someone to use their innititive for you?
Maybe the courses are good when your starting off to gain some marketing knowledge but if you think outside the box and apply common sense you will overcome problems yourself.

I dont want to waffle on but the facts are these people are businessmen too and we are the clients. In the same way we sell our services to customers who dont really need us they do the same to us in that we really can do it ourselves but they get us thinking they have the answer to you gaining more income which is bait many fall for.

MY MARKETING ADVICE - YOU GET FURTHER WITH YOUR BRAIN THAN YOUR WALLET

« **Reply #24 on:** August 01, 2009, 01:46:19 am »

Quote from: Dave morris @ st-ives on July 31, 2009, 10:28:34 pm

It cost me £145 for the course £120 in petrol, time away from work and yes it was worth every penny.

The course did give me a boost i needed, it also shown me I have been barking up the wrong trees over the last couple of years, I already run a successful business employing 4 window cleaners and I have 3 vans, so you would think i know what i am doing.

The course shown me a few little pointers which will help me re focus to grow even faster.

You take out of these courses what you want, you can either say "load of rubbish" or you can put into practice some of the ideas you have been given.

Just out of interest how many people attended the course with you and how long did the course last ?

« **Reply #25 on:** August 01, 2009, 08:25:13 am »

Hi Dave,

Been a while since we last spoke, hope your well mate.

So, business good then?

As for the course, well if you felt you got value for money then a course worth doing.

But my feeling is this. As a business you have to keep records as you go of what worked and what didn't. You must monitor leaflet drops, telesales campagins, advert returns, customer referrals, cold calling, marketing avenues.

Once you know this you then have a good demographic for what worked and what didn't.

Next you need to monitor your customers.

Average price - too high, too low, cancellations - why?, poor work, moving, cutting back, frequency of cleans. This will now give you the demographic of your customer, where they pay better money, which area has most cancellations etc....

So, now you know what method you have the most success with in terms of getting a new customer and you also have the information of what to expect from them and how to keep them.

Put these together and you have the basis of a sound marketing plan.

I am not saying what I have written is gospel but having 5 vans on the road its helped me grow?

Best wishes mate,

Trev

« **Reply #26 on:** August 01, 2009, 09:59:23 am »

Hi Trev

Hope you are well.

Business is booming we have more than doubled in turnover in each of the last 2 years

I know a lot about marketing already, but there is more than one way to skin a cat, I went on the course to learn off the master, A guy who's window cleaning business was turning over £1m when he sold it. The course has given me a few things that I will try out over the next few months.

If you are happy with your existing growth, then you dont need this course, If you want to hear a few Ideas which could POSSIBLY accelarate that growth then what have you got to lose.

Platinum

There was 12 other people on the course, mostly new starters and people who have been made redundant, so there here and coming to get you.

The course lasted 9.30 - 5.00

« **Reply #27 on:** August 01, 2009, 10:23:33 am »

Quote from: Dave morris @ st-ives on August 01, 2009, 09:59:23 am

Platinum

There was 12 other people on the course, mostly new starters and people who have been made redundant, so there here and coming to get you.

The course lasted 9.30 - 5.00

Dave
Im not trying to knock the coursese as im sure they are very helpful for some people who are starting up but people like yourself who are establsihed i wouldnt think needed to spend £145 on courses where you can go off you own experience. I know you feel you gain more knowledge from the courses but do you think the knowledge you gain is worth £145 course fee as well as £120 petrol. Do you think you could have got the same knowledge anywhere else cheaper like on here?

Dont know about you but £145 x 12 = £1740
Do 2 per week and thats a nice income

I dont know anything about the guy who takes the course so correct me if im wrong but i think the only way to turnover so much money is to have a good residential round - Lots of commercials with backhanders taking place to secure contracts and lastly by franchising the business- is this the way he did it?
From what you have learned now off the courses there cantbe more ways he can tell you how to expand> When your in business you always question why another business wants your custom because i always think a)Do i really need them b)How much c)What are they gaining by providing the service

Hope i have given you a little more perspective on things as i have two very good friends who are millionaires. Ones 25 and the other 30 and lessons i take from them are to know the market, Know the competition and be wary of the vultures. Ones made a fortune in property as well as manufacturing and engineering services so they have a good knowledge of different sectors

Good luck anyway Dave hope your business continues to grow and let us know if you double profits again this year

« **Reply #28 on:** August 01, 2009, 05:41:37 pm »

Hi dave its simon we met on the marketing course the other day, always good to put a face to the name.
Did you get much out of the course yourself ? I should have taken more notes (thought we were gonna get handouts at the end!)

If you could pass on those details you mentioned it would be much appreciated .
my email is simon@ultrapureclean.com .

quic questoin ive been looking at various software out there to help manage work do you use any of these?

« **Reply #29 on:** August 01, 2009, 06:35:16 pm »

Hi Simon

Nice to have met you.

Yes I got something out of the course, especially a good kick up the backside.

Did you learn anything and will you put anything into practice ?

If you email me your contact details and the areas you work then i will pass your details on.

As for Software I use George, it is cheap and cheerful and does a fantastic job.

« **Reply #30 on:** August 01, 2009, 06:54:32 pm »

Quote from: Platinum NW on August 01, 2009, 10:23:33 am

Quote from: Dave morris @ st-ives on August 01, 2009, 09:59:23 am

Platinum

There was 12 other people on the course, mostly new starters and people who have been made redundant, so there here and coming to get you.

The course lasted 9.30 - 5.00

Dave
Im not trying to knock the coursese as im sure they are very helpful for some people who are starting up but people like yourself who are establsihed i wouldnt think needed to spend £145 on courses where you can go off you own experience. I know you feel you gain more knowledge from the courses but do you think the knowledge you gain is worth £145 course fee as well as £120 petrol. Do you think you could have got the same knowledge anywhere else cheaper like on here?

Dont know about you but £145 x 12 = £1740
Do 2 per week and thats a nice income

I dont know anything about the guy who takes the course so correct me if im wrong but i think the only way to turnover so much money is to have a good residential round - Lots of commercials with backhanders taking place to secure contracts and lastly by franchising the business- is this the way he did it?
From what you have learned now off the courses there cantbe more ways he can tell you how to expand> When your in business you always question why another business wants your custom because i always think a)Do i really need them b)How much c)What are they gaining by providing the service

Hope i have given you a little more perspective on things as i have two very good friends who are millionaires. Ones 25 and the other 30 and lessons i take from them are to know the market, Know the competition and be wary of the vultures. Ones made a fortune in property as well as manufacturing and engineering services so they have a good knowledge of different sectors

Good luck anyway Dave hope your business continues to grow and let us know if you double profits again this year

when i was on the course there wan about 20.

However it is pocket money for craig, and yes i agree he has done very well for himself and he seems a very nice person, he knows lots and i dont disagree that he has a huge amount of knowledge to give.

But im not sure i found it that worthwhile for the amount it cost in total. The info i obtained i think i could have easily acquired it from asking the right questions on some forums.

However thats a personal judgement, you cannot give this until you have been on a course.

So Dave, your obviously a very good business man, and doing very well for yourself, and in your own admissions know lots about marketing.

What did you find useful and was you told anything you didn't know already? If so what?

« **Reply #31 on:** August 01, 2009, 08:49:01 pm »

The course I went on had about 15 window cleaners on it, of those there were 3 who went on forums.
If you dont use the forums the information you can get from it is great , but if you have been window cleaning any length of time , or visit forums for me it did not tell me anything I did not already know.

« **Reply #32 on:** August 19, 2009, 09:35:55 pm »

Hi Dave, not sure if you are still watching this post,,
I sent you an email a while back just checking if you recieved it?

many thanks

Simon

« **Reply #33 on:** August 31, 2009, 09:45:07 am »

Just one point we seem to miss is value.This will be based on the years one has been in any industy due to what we know.A newby will receice more from a course and as we climb the ladder in life the more we know.So value for a chat that been in the industry a long time ,one will only gain nuggets of value.these will be the pearls of wisdom that adds value at the top of what you already know and sharpen the point of our business.What the experenced of us need and want is advance master courses.To give value for a newby and experenced course would be imposable.My be these teachers are missing the boat of oppertunity and might need a course them selves.

« **Reply #34 on:** November 10, 2009, 06:35:54 pm »

Quote from: Ewan on August 19, 2009, 09:25:52 pm

Doing any one day course or reading a book cover to cover in a day is worth it. If you come away with just one sentence or paragraph that can change your view or outlook in a positive way, the cost is insignificant to what you may go on to achieve with your new knowledge or understanding.

You can’t expect every thing you hear or read to completely useful you only need to find that little bit of information that can change a lot for you.

This is the best bit of advice in the post so far IMO

« **Reply #35 on:** November 10, 2009, 07:36:20 pm »

Quote

Insert Quote
Quote from: Ewan on August 19, 2009, 09:25:52 PM
Doing any one day course or reading a book cover to cover in a day is worth it. If you come away with just one sentence or paragraph that can change your view or outlook in a positive way, the cost is insignificant to what you may go on to achieve with your new knowledge or understanding.

You can’t expect every thing you hear or read to completely useful you only need to find that little bit of information that can change a lot for you.

This is the best bit of advice in the post so far IMO

I second that. I reasoned the same way when I bought this manual and I'm glad I did.

http://windowcleaningresources.wordpress.com/2009/11/08/how-to-win-commercial-contracts/

« **Reply #36 on:** November 11, 2009, 06:36:50 pm »

i agree that mr taylor knows what he is talking about already got his entire package on disc just need ink in my printer now lol

« **Reply #37 on:** November 21, 2009, 12:53:59 am »

Reliabilty, quality , cost , but most of all RECOMMENDTION seems too do the trick .