[jo5hm4n]

So how many hours a day do they work.?

Darran

Generally it's 8:30am-4:30pm but recently i wont lie there have been multiple days where my main worker has been finishing his £250 daily target by say 3:30pm etc and i have just been letting him go home early.  I always had an arrangement where you get the work done then you can go home early or you can stay out later and get more work done.

[jo5hm4n]

Without being rude if that’s all you are earning why employ ? One man should ba able to do that amount on his own without any problems provided prices are  ok

Main reason i employ is because of health reasons as of the last 2 years i am unable to work physically at all.  So i rely on employees to get the work done.

In order to hit that amount you would need to be doing £350 per day 5 days a week for 48 weeks of the year to hit 84k turnover.  Don't know about you, but up north that is alot to ask day in day out all week long without any hiccups.  £300 as others have said is doable but i cant jump my employee from £250 a day to £350 a day.  Not anytime soon atleast!

[Splash & dash]

So how many hours a day do they work.?

Darran

Generally it's 8:30am-4:30pm but recently i wont lie there have been multiple days where my main worker has been finishing his £250 daily target by say 3:30pm etc and i have just been letting him go home early.  I always had an arrangement where you get the work done then you can go home early or you can stay out later and get more work done.

So are you saying there are two employees and yourself and you are only doing 60 k per year No wonder it’s not working financially each man should easily do 66k  that’s only £275 per day x 3  should be around 200k per year 

[jo5hm4n]

Around 5 years ago before I sold all our window work, I had one guy doing £350.00 + VAT and then a 2 man van softwashing all day.

It can be done and it could be down to your prices?

That is decent, can i ask what area/region you are from?  I would say our prices considering we are up north are decent.  I know it can be done, i guess i just need to find other companies in my area or also up north hitting these figures so i know in my area its definitely possible.  I know for a fact if i was based down in surrey or sussex we would be clearing £400 a day all day long no problems.  Area does make a difference to an extent......

[Splash & dash]

Without being rude if that’s all you are earning why employ ? One man should ba able to do that amount on his own without any problems provided prices are  ok

Main reason i employ is because of health reasons as of the last 2 years i am unable to work physically at all.  So i rely on employees to get the work done.

In order to hit that amount you would need to be doing £350 per day 5 days a week for 48 weeks of the year to hit 84k turnover.  Don't know about you, but up north that is alot to ask day in day out all week long without any hiccups.  £300 as others have said is doable but i cant jump my employee from £250 a day to £350 a day.  Not anytime soon atleast!

Ah ok so 2 employees, look at your job price , travel time between jobs , are you sure they arnt doing jobs for themselves   I don’t know what prices are like in your area  but if you can get the work give them more don’t let them go home early , Ime not suggesting treat them like slaves  but depending on prices they should be able to hit £300 in the time you have suggested especially if the do 8:30 to 4:30

[jo5hm4n]

So are you saying there are two employees and yourself and you are only doing 60 k per year No wonder it’s not working financially each man should easily do 66k  that’s only £275 per day x 3  should be around 200k per year

No the figures i quoted were for just 1 worker my main worker.  I also have a part time semi retired worker on 2 days a week to top up his income.  He brings the turnover to around 80-85k pa.

I dont rely on the cleaning business for an income anymore.  I started a lead generation/canvassing company during the first lockdown and i now receive a full income from this.

The window cleaning i just take a small wage from each year for doing minimal admin work and let the money build up in the business account.

[Splash & dash]

So are you saying there are two employees and yourself and you are only doing 60 k per year No wonder it’s not working financially each man should easily do 66k  that’s only £275 per day x 3  should be around 200k per year

No the figures i quoted were for just 1 worker my main worker.  I also have a part time semi retired worker on 2 days a week to top up his income.  He brings the turnover to around 80-85k pa.

I dont rely on the cleaning business for an income anymore.  I started a lead generation/canvassing company during the first lockdown and i now receive a full income from this.

The window cleaning i just take a small wage from each year for doing minimal admin work and let the money build up in the business account.

So you are at the VAT threshold then ??

[jo5hm4n]

Ah ok so 2 employees, look at your job price , travel time between jobs , are you sure they arnt doing jobs for themselves   I don’t know what prices are like in your area  but if you can get the work give them more don’t let them go home early , Ime not suggesting treat them like slaves  but depending on prices they should be able to hit £300 in the time you have suggested especially if the do 8:30 to 4:30

Job price is fine i think.  Travel between jobs can definitely be improved on certain rounds 100%.  We do have a few rounds that are not compact.....  I think i have been a bit slack with my worker just letting him go home earlier especially in the winter but heading into spring summer i know for a fact he can hit £300 a day.  All he needs to do is an extra hour if that without making any actual changes to the way we do things so its definitely possible.  Ill just need to tighten the ship i think and reassess what ive been doing.

I'm not reliant or desperate for the money so sometimes to avoid headaches or stress im more likely to just let things slide for peace of mind and an easy life.  Mainly because i have bad health problems which at times really affect me and i dont want any additional stress/hassle.  Too be honest i shouldn't really be in business anymore, but got to pay the bills somehow!!!

[jo5hm4n]

So you are at the VAT threshold then ??

I'm below the VAT threshold just about.  Have been for 3 years running.  I cleared it with my accountant they said aslong as i dont expand staying just below threshold is fine and you would be suprised there are lots of small businesses that do this. 

[Splash & dash]

So you are at the VAT threshold then ??

I'm below the VAT threshold just about.  Have been for 3 years running.  I cleared it with my accountant they said aslong as i dont expand staying just below threshold is fine and you would be suprised there are lots of small businesses that do this.

Yes you either need to be just under or over 100k  to justify the costs , sorry to hear about your health issues, do what’s best for your situation might pay to come up with some sort of bonus incentive  for them , that’s what I do with my guys and it works well for them and me .

[Ggh]

I’ve not been in the game that long, but I think you need to grow. Try and hit £250k with 4 guys and four vans.

If you’re under the VAT threshold, it’s a job for a sole trader.
Above the threshold, you need to hit a good amount to make it work.

[Smudger]

if I get this right your guy does £250 in 7 hrs - thats £35 p/h and your paying him until 4.30 thats £31 something p/h - thats no good

somewhere you need to be setting a higher amount of work per day - or only pay to 3.30

I think the worry about staying below the vat threshold is holding you back somewhat - if you don't want to cross over then the guys need to do more in less hours

Darran

[jo5hm4n]

if I get this right your guy does £250 in 7 hrs - thats £35 p/h and your paying him until 4.30 thats £31 something p/h - thats no good

somewhere you need to be setting a higher amount of work per day - or only pay to 3.30

I think the worry about staying below the vat threshold is holding you back somewhat - if you don't want to cross over then the guts need to do more in less hours

Darran

I mean the amount he earns whilst cleaning is higher but yes the overall amount it looks like you are right on this.  Some of the issue is this.  He turns up at 8:30am now hes getting paid.  15 mins to fill the van each morning.  Then some days its a 30 min drive to whichever round he is working.  Some days its 5 min drive, but most days its atleast 30 mins drive.  Then at the end of each work day its another 30 min drive back to the office.  Then it takes him about 15 mins to process the paperwork for each day, any customer comments/queries, double checking hes signed the paperwork off as correct so i know for the debtlist on cleanerplanner.  So all in all we probably lose up to 1 hrs 30 mins each day where hes not on the "glass" due to what ive mentioned above.  What he earns on the glass is probably £40-£45 per hour.

I can't handle the stress of expanding to say 4 vans and 250k turnover and all that is involved in that.  It would kill me.  Plus i have another business (lead generation/canvassing) which is earning me good money, way more than i thought was possible.  So in reality i just have no need to warrant expanding the cleaning business.

If anything i'd rather expand the advertising business as the margins for that are insane im running at 75% net profit which is a bit ridiculous.  Expanding that business for me is a better use of my time, but between running the two i dont really have any desire to expand either.  If the last 2 years has taught me anything it's that there is more to life than money and working 24/7.

[KS Cleaning]

Is that £250 a day before VAT?

Not VAT Registered and dont plan to be for personal reasons.

So just £250 total.

Presuming you work 48 weeks per year and 5 days per week you can take £350 per day and still be under the VAT threshold, You need to take that daily sales total in the least amount of time as you possibly can. otherwise inflation and the need to cover increasing overhead will force you into being compulsory registered. Just scraping over the VAT threshold will probably push you into a trading loss, As already mentioned you need a much better understanding of your numbers.

Do you still work on the windows too or are you office based?

Mark did you delete your post regarding your turnover? I actually found it quite refreshing to read a post from someone who hits big numbers but prefers to be modest about it, respect👍

[Smudger]

Well there's far too much wasted time - my guys fill and prep van night before  when returning to unit - while filling they wash van and  upload cp ( no other paperwork needed ) in the morning download work and go

If you can't do it that way then fill the van for them - driving can't be helped perhaps refine the rounds and if it's 1/2 drive then they need to be out that extra hour

He is not earning 45 on the glass, driving etc should all be factored in - my guys need to hit an average to get bonus that's an average from the wheels turning from unit until return  - that's the true average to you

Darran

[Mark Dee]

Is that £250 a day before VAT?

Not VAT Registered and dont plan to be for personal reasons.

So just £250 total.

Presuming you work 48 weeks per year and 5 days per week you can take £350 per day and still be under the VAT threshold, You need to take that daily sales total in the least amount of time as you possibly can. otherwise inflation and the need to cover increasing overhead will force you into being compulsory registered. Just scraping over the VAT threshold will probably push you into a trading loss, As already mentioned you need a much better understanding of your numbers.

Do you still work on the windows too or are you office based?

Mark did you delete your post regarding your turnover? I actually found it quite refreshing to read a post from someone who hits big numbers but prefers to be modest about it, respect👍

Yes , the turnover figure is from a  business which isnt cleaning related so isnt really relevant to the post. The OP asked for comments from members who employ window cleaning staff- at the moment I dont.

[Mark Dee]

Ah ok so 2 employees, look at your job price , travel time between jobs , are you sure they arnt doing jobs for themselves   I don’t know what prices are like in your area  but if you can get the work give them more don’t let them go home early , Ime not suggesting treat them like slaves  but depending on prices they should be able to hit £300 in the time you have suggested especially if the do 8:30 to 4:30

Job price is fine i think.  Travel between jobs can definitely be improved on certain rounds 100%.  We do have a few rounds that are not compact.....  I think i have been a bit slack with my worker just letting him go home earlier especially in the winter but heading into spring summer i know for a fact he can hit £300 a day.  All he needs to do is an extra hour if that without making any actual changes to the way we do things so its definitely possible.  Ill just need to tighten the ship i think and reassess what ive been doing.

I'm not reliant or desperate for the money so sometimes to avoid headaches or stress im more likely to just let things slide for peace of mind and an easy life.  Mainly because i have bad health problems which at times really affect me and i dont want any additional stress/hassle.  Too be honest i shouldn't really be in business anymore, but got to pay the bills somehow!!!

If your job prices are fine then the problem maybe your "star" worker isnt doing you any favours and you are allowing that to happen.  Your star worker knows that, because of your health issues, you are vulnerable  and he may believe that without him the business isnt a business. Your potential failure may be his future success.  Who would be in the best position to gain from your demise?

I hope that scenario isnt true, but it is something I would give  some serious thought to.

[NWH]

If they start going home at the start at 2-3 o’clock in their heads that’s their hours anything after that they think it should be overtime even if they get a days pay for 5-6 hours work,as soon as someone that works for you thinks you solely depend on them you’re done for.
I wouldn’t worry about how much an hour travelling between jobs blah blah it’s the daily figure that’s the main thing,I travel between jobs and don’t have compact work but might only clean 3-4 jobs a day but get decent numbers.
Be interesting to see how he would react to changes within the business might see the real person.

[KS Cleaning]

So are you saying there are two employees and yourself and you are only doing 60 k per year No wonder it’s not working financially each man should easily do 66k  that’s only £275 per day x 3  should be around 200k per year

No the figures i quoted were for just 1 worker my main worker. I also have a part time semi retired worker on 2 days a week to top up his income. He brings the turnover to around 80-85k pa.

I dont rely on the cleaning business for an income anymore.  I started a lead generation/canvassing company during the first lockdown and i now receive a full income from this.

The window cleaning i just take a small wage from each year for doing minimal admin work and let the money build up in the business account.

I think that’s part of the problem right there. You are running a second van for a part time semi retired worker who is topping up his income. When you look at the running costs of the second van there is no way these costs can be covered by a semi retired person working 2 days a week after you have paid his wages and other associated costs. This will undoubtedly be draining your profits.

[NWH]

I would be honest  with the numbers like I said earlier with the amount they need to turnover if you then get rained off etc it’s easier to deal with financially although completely rained off days are few tbh,it will be like wow he’s expecting me to do X per day and I’m only getting X for doing it.
They need to know for it to be sustainable and for you to pay them  the bills and  make a profit they need to be hitting them,when you work closely with someone it’s all to easy to think we will have an early day if they are on their own they’ll get more used to doing a full day I know it may sound daft but people see this job unlike a lot of others.