[paul13]

Trad will always be better, WFP is a good alternative ie you wont break bones! Anybody who says wfp is better is talking out of their a...e. i did trad for 17 years, done wfp for 3 years its good but you cant give attention to detail. when i clean bottoms i spend ages removing bees wax, 1st, 2nd, 3rd floor i dont see it so my job cant be that good.
Its a great alternative and the weeks wage is better. and thats all.

So the only better thing about WFP is you wont break bones classic reply
from someone who knows nothing about WFP.

Every one has there own opinion
but that opinion is so misleading. If you are using trad to clean upvc frames which
most houses in my area have Its simply wrong 
Because you are leaving soap residue on the glass, frames and in the seals.
When you use wfp you leave no residue just a spotless window and frame.

Can you tell me what benefit trad has over WFP on upvc windows?

[SeanK]

Trad will always be better, WFP is a good alternative ie you wont break bones! Anybody who says wfp is better is talking out of their a...e. i did trad for 17 years, done wfp for 3 years its good but you cant give attention to detail. when i clean bottoms i spend ages removing bees wax, 1st, 2nd, 3rd floor i dont see it so my job cant be that good.
Its a great alternative and the weeks wage is better. and thats all.

I have been trad 17 years also. I give a lot of attention to detail (almost to the point of OCD), so I get excellent results every time. Whenever I have asked questions with regard to changing over, I have always then decided to stick to what I am comfortable with. Were I to change over to wfp, I can imagine using much, much more water than would probably be required, as I would go over and over the glass to be sure that I was cleaning thoroughly, and even then I would not be confident that the glass would be clean enough for me. I appreciate that the financial rewards for using wfp are higher, but then so are the costs to run and maintain the system compared to traditional.

Best wishes,
John

Who says the financial rewards are higher ? the same guys who will tell you that in the right hands wfp will do a perfect
job every time.
The same guys who will tell you they are making a fortune hourly, but tend to have a nervous breakdown when they need to
replace a battery.
The same guys who believe its impossible to clean a window frame without a wfp system.
The same guys who believe wfp must do a better job because they took work from a lazy traditional guy who was doing a
crap job.
The same guys who believe that because a customer doesn't complain they are totally happy with their work.
The same guys who couldn't seem to make a living when they where using traditional methods yet we know lots of traditional guys
who are making great money and always have been.
The same guys who will tell that wfp is the best invention since the wheel but will panic and throw a hissy fit if someone dares to say
anything negative about it.
Johnny wfp allows me to clean windows safely from the ground and if you came to me looking for advice that's what I would
tell you.
I'm not saying there aren't people who havent improved their finances since converting to wfp of course there are, you have
Alex Gardiner for one.

[Paul Coleman]

A quality traditional cleaner is like a quality cabinet maker who uses quality wood and methods to produce
his furniture.
A quality wfp cleaner is like Ikea and its flat pack furniture.
Both will do the job and we know who will make the most money, but who's furniture would we like to own ?

I tend to use the comparison of washing up in a bowl versus using a dishwashing machine; pros and cons to both methods but when the machine works well, it's usually better.  Customers relate more to the washing up analogy too.
If you want to compare apples with oranges, I will compare apples to pears

[SeanK]

Trad will always be better, WFP is a good alternative ie you wont break bones! Anybody who says wfp is better is talking out of their a...e. i did trad for 17 years, done wfp for 3 years its good but you cant give attention to detail. when i clean bottoms i spend ages removing bees wax, 1st, 2nd, 3rd floor i dont see it so my job cant be that good.
Its a great alternative and the weeks wage is better. and thats all.

So the only better thing about WFP is you wont break bones classic reply
from someone who knows nothing about WFP.

Every one has there own opinion
but that opinion is so misleading. If you are using trad to clean upvc frames which
most houses in my area have Its simply wrong 
Because you are leaving soap residue on the glass, frames and in the seals.
When you use wfp you leave no residue just a spotless window and frame.

Can you tell me what benefit trad has over WFP on upvc windows?

I used to clean my own window frames using tap water only, they came up perfect every time and no soap residue.
A good traditional window cleaner will only get soap residue along the bottom of the frame which is easily removed
with a damp microfiber.
Maybe its you who needs to learn a little more about window cleaning before making silly comments like this.

[martin hulstone]

I used to clean all frames and sills when trad and never had a problem.
since going wfp my wage has increased and i aint gonna worry abiout providing for my little one if i cant work cause the ladder went from under my feet, i have experience of this as i had to take 3 months off when i broke my elbow and broke my ribs!That to me is the real benefit.

[Positivity]

I would qualify that topic
Trad is always superior in customers eyes over wfp
Trad is often perceived as superior in customers eyes over wfp
Not always but generally.
I look at it from a completely different perspective whether it's superior or not.
I don't want to go up ladders anymore!!!!
I have k*****ed up one knee by years of 3 storey ladder work.
Who in their right mind would climb a ladder to clean a window when you can do it easily from the ground??
P.

[paul13]

Trad will always be better, WFP is a good alternative ie you wont break bones! Anybody who says wfp is better is talking out of their a...e. i did trad for 17 years, done wfp for 3 years its good but you cant give attention to detail. when i clean bottoms i spend ages removing bees wax, 1st, 2nd, 3rd floor i dont see it so my job cant be that good.
Its a great alternative and the weeks wage is better. and thats all.

So the only better thing about WFP is you wont break bones classic reply
from someone who knows nothing about WFP.

Every one has there own opinion
but that opinion is so misleading. If you are using trad to clean upvc frames which
most houses in my area have Its simply wrong 
Because you are leaving soap residue on the glass, frames and in the seals.
When you use wfp you leave no residue just a spotless window and frame.

Can you tell me what benefit trad has over WFP on upvc windows?

I used to clean my own window frames using tap water only, they came up perfect every time and no soap residue.
A good traditional window cleaner will only get soap residue along the bottom of the frame which is easily removed
with a damp microfiber.
Maybe its you who needs to learn a little more about window cleaning before making silly comments like this.

So why do you not just use tap water to clean your custys windows?

I was trad for a long time before WFP and still use trad when the job calls for it.

What about the soap residue on the glass? you remove all soap from the window frame with a damp cloth really

Your correct I still have learning to do which is why I'm on this forum and facebook and educating
myself as much as possible in regards to window cleaning / business in general its my job.

I haven't said wfp is better than trad for all window cleaning because that would make me really silly

So just to be clear do you believe you leave no soap on glass or frame when trad ?

[Mick Kent]

I think we all know deep down that trad does a better job but takes a lot more time!
In my trad days if a customer wanted there frames done i would charge extra for it and never do it casualy as i would wfp as took ages with lots of ladder moves.

Whats anoying is that it seems customers prefere a guy to turn up in a clapped out old estate with a ladder over someone who looks proffessional and has a quality wfp van and system. 1 could get setup trad with an old bangor for £300 as i did 10 years ago when i started or you could spend 30k getting the best wfp and a brand new signwritten van yet the customer seems to still prefer the old trad way and not the splashing of water and leaving them wet like they say.

[paul13]

I think we all know deep down that trad does a better job but takes a lot more time!
In my trad days if a customer wanted there frames done i would charge extra for it and never do it casualy as i would wfp as took ages with lots of ladder moves.

Whats anoying is that it seems customers prefere a guy to turn up in a clapped out old estate with a ladder over someone who looks proffessional and has a quality wfp van and system. 1 could get setup trad with an old bangor for £300 as i did 10 years ago when i started or you could spend 30k getting the best wfp and a brand new signwritten van yet the customer seems to still prefer the old trad way and not the splashing of water and leaving them wet like they say.

Why does trad do a better job ??

If anyone can convince me trad is better I will be trading from now on in.
Deep deep down I'm convinced out side glass should be WFP unless rotten frames or flush
window ledges where the water runs down wall onto glass ect.

The reason custy's don't believe in it is in my experience most wc don't and not just
on this forum but in my area there's some good trad cleaners who cant get there heads round WFP.

[Johnny B]

I have never used wfp, but I clean some of my customers' windows inside and out (yes I clean the frames every time), so I can see the results from both sides of the glass and the results are very, very good, ie no smears or marks that the customer could point to to say that the windows were not cleaned properly. I get glowing praise from many of my customers. The last complaint I had was well over a year ago, and this proved to be unjustified when I went back to recheck my work.
 
If wfp can beat that, then that's fine by me. I am not knocking it, neither am I qualified to as I have never tried it, but I am happy to carry on as I am because I don't believe that I could do a better job with it than I am doing now. I am not perfect, I make mistakes, but I do take a huge amount of pride in what I do and always try to do a job that pleases my customers.

John

[Rob @ Cleaner Planner]

Guys, just a thought, but personally from my albeit limited experience as a customer (only tried 1 wfp then 1 trad guy) I was willing to pay more for trad.

Looking back I paid the wfp guy £20 and wasn't happy, but I'm happy to pay the trad guy £30 because he takes his time and does a better job. I'd probably pay £35, heck maybe £40 if he really really laid it on, got up in my loft (it's boarded with a staircase) and swivelled my veluxes to clean them properly.

If the customer's perception (right or wrong) is that trad is the "premium" service I think you could (probably already are?!) capitalise on that by having trad as a "premium" option alongside wfp.

Lol, but what do I know

I don't think it's so much about swish van vs clapped out estate, and more about feeling like you're not getting the "wham bam" treatment, which I most certainly got with the wfp guys I tried.

[Window Lickers]

Some of 'em like "wham bam"  

[Window Lickers]

Some like the "premium" service.

[Window Lickers]

And some dont like nuffink at all 

[Johnny B]

Guys, just a thought, but personally from my albeit limited experience as a customer (only tried 1 wfp then 1 trad guy) I was willing to pay more for trad.

Looking back I paid the wfp guy £20 and wasn't happy, but I'm happy to pay the trad guy £30 because he takes his time and does a better job. I'd probably pay £35, heck maybe £40 if he really really laid it on, got up in my loft (it's boarded with a staircase) and swivelled my veluxes to clean them properly.

If the customer's perception (right or wrong) is that trad is the "premium" service I think you could (probably already are?!) capitalise on that by having trad as a "premium" option alongside wfp.

Lol, but what do I know

I don't think it's so much about swish van vs clapped out estate, and more about feeling like you're not getting the "wham bam" treatment, which I most certainly got with the wfp guys I tried.

Very interesting to get a customer's first hand experience Rob. Thanks for sharing this with us.

Best wishes,
John

[Rob @ Cleaner Planner]

Exactly - options is good.

Think my guy does wfp as well (not sure if his system's all that swanky mind ) so I think now I may say to him don't kill yourself trying to clean that window above the conny on a ladder, feel free to use wfp where it makes sense... to be honest I think it's really only the downstairs windows, front door, porch etc that really need the trad treatment, that and the veluxes

[Tom White]

You guys arguing which is better - wfp or trad - lack an understanding of something quite important.

Customer's don't tend to purchase the trade, they pay for the tradesman.

Think about it.

[Rob @ Cleaner Planner]

You guys arguing which is better - wfp or trad - lack an understanding of something quite important.

Customer's don't tend to purchase the trade, they pay for the tradesman.

Think about it.

You're right, couldn't give a monkeys what tools you use.

But it's about the whole "experience" = the tradesman yep, but also the results and the feeling that they actually "care" about them.

I wasn't convinced my (particular) wfp guys did care, it was in and out shake'em all about, to be honest maybe the results were OK, I just didn't like the wham bam.

I guess the point was I was in at the time If I was out it may not have made any odds!

[gary999]

Personally i think on the glass first floor and above trad will guarantee
results everytime but who wants to risk there lives on a ladder if
you dont have to.

The frames are definately cleaned better by wfp and is the main selling
point of the system,i cant count the amount of times that customers
have remarked on how the trad cleaner never did the frames,because
of this the overall effect of wfp is greater.

So why not combine both methods,my tap water is a little over 30ppm
so i dont ro or di anymore.I wfp windows and have a reach around
on top of the pole when finished i have a unger blue shower squeegee
(for lightnes) on the reach around,simple couple of straight pulls glass
is dry,works really well in winter when water sticks around longer.

The above is a little slower than straight wfp but still quicker than
trad if they were doing a proper job.

With WFT i pick work from crap wfp'ers and trad guys,i get all
the benefits of both methods and none of the negatives

[SeanK]

I think we all know deep down that trad does a better job but takes a lot more time!
In my trad days if a customer wanted there frames done i would charge extra for it and never do it casualy as i would wfp as took ages with lots of ladder moves.

Whats anoying is that it seems customers prefere a guy to turn up in a clapped out old estate with a ladder over someone who looks proffessional and has a quality wfp van and system. 1 could get setup trad with an old bangor for £300 as i did 10 years ago when i started or you could spend 30k getting the best wfp and a brand new signwritten van yet the customer seems to still prefer the old trad way and not the splashing of water and leaving them wet like they say.

.


Why does trad do a better job ??

If anyone can convince me trad is better I will be trading from now on in.
Deep deep down I'm convinced out side glass should be WFP unless rotten frames or flush
window ledges where the water runs down wall onto glass ect.

The reason custy's don't believe in it is in my experience most wc don't and not just
on this forum but in my area there's some good trad cleaners who cant get there heads round WFP.

No you wont because trad is a lot more dangerous and wfp is working for you.
I'm wfp and wouldn't dream of cleaning windows any other way, could I guarantee better results by cleaning them using
traditional methods of course I could.
There are many reasons why wfp pole doesn't get perfect results every time mostly its to do with frames, also its a lot easier
to miss the odd mark on the glass as its left wet and you aren't as close to the glass when cleaning.
I honestly don't care if traditional methods achieve better results as wfp works for me and my customers