[lee_gundry]

having now been cleaning carpets & upholstery for 12 yrs,i belive the minimum standard of our cleaning equipment has changed.when i started the most of the units on the market were 50 psi pumps with one 3 stage vac,the top end units were 100psi pumps two 3 stage vacs.i belive that using a 100 psi pump is below the mimimum required pressure to clean  most of the work that the average carpet cleaner will come accross.

also the heater units avalible when i started were ok at keeping the water temp constant, but no good at heating up the water to a required level.

what do you think is the minimum required spec of a machine should be for todays carpet cleaners.
Lee G

[paul@ctcs]

Lee,
 
I agree, having upgraded to the Eclipse I realised 100psi is simply not good enough!! I still have my old machine and for convinience sake I used it to clean some rugs last week, the solution pressure was totally inadequate and made a simple job considerably harder than it would have been with a better machine.
As far as an actual minimum is concerned It would have to be 200psi and twin 3 stage vacs, a decent 2kw heater should be able to supply a constant 60-70 degrees which for me is the ideal in most cases.

Paul

[Dennis]

Well I hope you will both go back to those early customers, apologise and do a free reclean. 

[Dave Parry]

400psi, 240^OF and a big blower.
Oh yes and a big shiney t/m

[Mike Halliday]

I totally agree with Dennis, if you can't clean a carpet with 100psi  were we all doing our past customers a dis-service .

and when we were using  a 100psi we would'nt have believed we could have got the carpet cleaner if we had a more powerfull machine,

so....

the natural progression from this is more power equals better cleaning

I'm sure you can see where I;m going with this 

Mike

[paul@ctcs]

Not better but a damn site easier!!!

Paul

[Barry Pearce]

Lee,
For over 20 years we have heard the debate about blasting the soil away, More Power, More PSI, a must for the TM when you have distance from the truck to the head but for your average domestic, a standard HWE,you select the right solutions for the fabric and pre-vac, pre-spray, and agetate, simple
Barry

[Ian Gourlay]

If 100psi twin vac is not good enough it means the the machines sold by 4 major suppliers are no good

[paul@ctcs]

Try using a more powerful machine and then go back to 100 psi    It will drive you crazy!!
twin 3 stage vacuums are fine, I have no complaints with this aspect of my comanche, just the solution pressure.

Paul

[Matt Read]

On the subject of psi how many of you chaps change the fan jets in your wands reguarly ? When i started i wasn't into equipment maintenance and my wand went ages before they were changed . The difference was amazing almost like a new pump had been fitted...  i now renew them quite often.

[lee_gundry]

I think the twin 3 stage vacs is the minimum but i belive that 100 psi is below the minimum needed to do a true deep clean.


Lee G

[Dynafoam]

Lee,

The twin-vac 100psi level is something that I left behind many years ago, and would not wish to return.

However I do believe that given the skill and the time it is possible to produce similar levels of cleaning with such equipment.

[John_Flynn]

I started with a 50psi and 1 x 2stage vac, my cleaning was the Best in the World, or so I thought, then I moved onto 50psi and 2 x 2stage vac, then even better 50psi and 2 x 3stage vac and then and then I bought Mr Inghams Hybred Roots Blower, upto 1400psi and 100c heat if I want it and guess what??? My cleaning is still the best in the World!!

[lee_gundry]

ok you can get good results with a 50 psi pump given the time,so can a becks bissel.

what i am asking is what do you think that the minimum spec of a unit should be today.

i thought prochem would have brought out a portable with a larger pump.

a few years ago i was cleaning a nightclub using a extracta xl,i sprsprayed scrubbed & let dwell,started to wand the carpet,results were poor,so i attached my scrubba delux,results were a lot  better,eventhough i was still using 100 psi the extra aggitation was what the cleaning task was missing.


Lee G

[Dennis]

Now I agree about a minimum requirement, but dependent on the task you are performing.

Years ago when I had a franchise I was doing hardtop pubs/clubs with bonnet buffing - bloody useless, took ages. That was when I wished I had HWE.

So you are selling the tm for a fleet of Becks Bissel machines? 

[Dynafoam]

Lee,

The point that I was making was that  a machine is sometimes no better than its' operator.

If we are to determine a minimum standard for extraction machines that will produce an 'acceptable' result, I fell that it should be operator-matched. For example, an operator with poor wand technique might still produce an acceptable result if using a powerful TM, simply because he will have a degree of redundant power that will compensate for his own shortcomings. That is no to say that with a super-powered machine, operator skill is not important, simply that there will be power to 'waste'.

What I would suggest to a novice with a limited budget is that he minimum for a first purchase should be 2 x 3-stage vacs and 135psi pump (which will deliver about 90psi in use).

Starting with this set-up is likely to produce a better cleaner than starting with an entry-level TM because the machine, being less forgiving, will test the operator skill to a higher degree. If that operator is determined to be the best that he can be, the skill level may be honed to a higher degree.

Unfortunately I have known of an instance where a reasonably good portable operator moved to a TM and became somewhat sloppy in technique to the extent that the end result was to a lower standard than he produced with his portable.

[lee_gundry]

i think you have a good point there john.

a lot of people think that a tm is a miricle worker.


Lee G

[Dave_Lee]

I struggled at first with my small TM, having used top portables for 23 years with excellent results. The reason was I couldnt get the solution metering right. I raise this point because, the results I used to attain with a portable (100 psi, twin 3 stage vacs) were no worse than I now attain with my TM. The solution leaving the wand jets now is much more diluted due to the extra pressure  and hence the more water used. Of course the argument is that the extra pressure heat, etc. compensates for the lesser solution strengh. Obviously this doesnt come into it, if microsplitting.
The thing is, on results alone, i.e. cleaning appearance, I cant say they have improved for me, since changing to TM from portable, other parts of the job have (speed, faster drying etc) but not the clean appearance.
Though having less power, I think the portable job can be made to be first class, through harder work, technique and a more potent cleaning solution.
Everything together, of course, taking into account the quality of clean, speed of drying, speed of job etc. the TM wins everytime.
Lee is correct though, in that the goal posts are moving all the time. At the moment an absolute minimum I think is the 100 psi with twin 3 stage vacs, however with more and more TMs coming into service, I can see in the not too distant future (only a few years 3 or 4) that the TM will become the only acceptable norm for professional HWE cleaning. This is already so, with most present day TM owners.
Dave.

[Dynafoam]

How refreshing 

Both Lee and Dave taking an unblinkered view.

Though I do not suggest that it is always the case, very often cleaners take the step of investing in a TM and from that moment adopt an elitist attitude that blinds them to the fact that similar results can be obtained with a machine not bolted to the van floor.

[Dave Parry]

Having taken the step to  become t/m'ed I agree with John, a t/m does not nessasarly clean better, it does however clean an awful lot faster, and leave carpets drier. most t/m'ers are cleaners who are able to capitalise on this and fit more jobs in without killing themselves doing it.