[Paul Simpson]

Did a job 2 weeks ago for a local customer, the cheque was returned unpaid on Thursday last week so I rang the customer who plays dumb claiming there is no way it should bounce, plenty of money in there, etc, etc and she'll have to get the cash out next week and for me to call her on Tuesday as shes going away for the weekend, I offered to go around straight away as its 5 minutes away but she said she was literally walking out the door to go away. (Yeah right!)

Anyway I rang her this morning and the phone rings for 45-60 seconds before answering and she claims that she has just walked in the door, still got her bag in her hand (Of course!  )
Can I give her a few hours and she'll call back. She calls back later saying she's just on her way to the bank to sort it out and will call when sorted.

Just had another call from her saying her bank told her everything is okay and it must be a problem my end, (checked, it isn't) and to try paying the cheque in again.
Told her I couldn't as its crossed through, so she says she will have to give me another cheque as she claims she cannot get cash out of that account. One of those banks that don't give your money back then  
Told her I'm not prepared to wait another 7-10 days for another cheque to go unpaid I will need to collect cash.
Haven't got it on me and working long days the next few so not sure when I can get it out she now says.  

Obviously she must be stringing me along so what to do next  
Shes keeping in contact so is she just buying time  
How long do I give her  

[clinton]

Am sure you will get lots of replys for this mate.

Was it a larger sum she owes you?

[Colin Day]

Good luck with that one mate, how people can do what she's (Obviously) doing is beyond me...

Hand deliver her an invoice with a late payment fee, immediate cash payment required...

[Helen]

Good luck with that one mate, how people can do what she's (Obviously) doing is beyond me...

Hand deliver her an invoice with a late payment fee, immediate cash payment required...

Plus charges incurred from your bank for rubber cheque.

How could it be a fault with your bank?

Maybe she is busy and going away for the weekend, but that doesn't mean you have to wait. As Colin says hand deliver etc with wording that you will take alternative measures to retrieve the money should your terms not be met.

[murky]

Get yourself a card machine. No excuses then. Paid straight in, no probs.

Murky

[derek west]

i wouldn't get all stressed about it just yet paul, she's comunicating which is good, stay calm, stay professional. i don't know the circumstances so could ask a million questions before i could truly advise.

far as i know you can pay a cheque into an account 3 times and each time its them that gets the fine for a bounced one.

if you can, pay it in again.

[Paul Simpson]

Thanks for the replies.

Bit of an update!
Spoke to my bank who re-affirmed that my account is fine and generally only return cheques if they have insufficient funds.
Sent the customer a text telling her this and that I need to collect cash.

Her reply

"Are you calling me a liar"
Another straight after
"I will not pay you unless you aplogize"

Sent back a reply "I am not calling you a liar only telling you what my bank told me"

During which time another text saying "I wasn't happy with the clean anyway"   

She is obviously trying to get out of it now, a bit reluctant to offer to go back and clean again as she might take me up on it and still pay nothing.

[davep]

Knock on door with shiny new invoice and hold out your hand. Mention added charges due to time spent dealng with it and she will soon cough up.

[Paul Simpson]

if you can, pay it in again.

I would do but like Helen said bank charges!. I'll get charged £7.50 from the bank for each bounced cheque.

[derek west]

WHAT

WHY

how can a bank charge you for someone elses fault. ive had a bounced cheque 4 times now and not been charged. 3 were just mis understandings and the 4th i repayed in and it cleared.

[Paul Simpson]

I think its a kind of admin fee 
Only had it once before and they charged me then and confirmed I'll be charged for this.

[derek west]

i'd change your bank or complain about that mate, thats bang out of order, what have ya done wrong to be fined £7.50

[Paul Simpson]

Really 
Thought it was the norm!

[Russ Chadd]

People like her do this all the time... give them an inch and they take a mile and you have been more than patient with this woman.
Its a real difficult situation you are in now because even if you try and take this parasite to a small claims court you will end up shelling out and she will get away with paying you £5.00 per month or something, she probably does this sort of thing all the time so another CCJ against her name is nothing to her.
Unfortunately this is a sign of the times in Britain, some people are just out to get whatever they can get.

My next stop would be the Citizens Advice...

(By the way did she sign anything after you did the job? to accept the quality of your work etc?)  

[Paul Simpson]

My next stop would be the Citizens Advice...

(By the way did she sign anything after you did the job? to accept the quality of your work etc?)  

Thanks Russ, thats where I was planning on going in the morning.
She did sign my survey/invoice but it doesn't say anything on there to confirm they are happy with the quality of work.

[John Kelly]

She has issued a cheque with insufficient funds to honour it, that is now illegal. Don't text people over things like this it makes seem trivial and easy to rebuff. Send a demand letter in writing then if no joy go to county court or do it on line. Not a great system but its all we've got. I waste hours and hours over crap like this.

[Russ Chadd]

My next stop would be the Citizens Advice...

(By the way did she sign anything after you did the job? to accept the quality of your work etc?)  

Thanks Russ, thats where I was planning on going in the morning.
She did sign my survey/invoice but it doesn't say anything on there to confirm they are happy with the quality of work.

Your survey should have a check list which you work by, check for draught marks, spots etc.. as long as you have pointed these out to the customer and you have agreed to remove and correct anything which is in your capabilities then thats about all you can do, if she wasnt happy with the job... why did she write you a cheque... she would lose in court me thinks

[The Great One]

Hi

Writing you a cheque is a written contract that she was happy enough with the work to pay you for it.

Martin

[Matt Lindus]

The account holder of the written cheque gets the charge if it bounces, not the recipient.

Firstly, don’t get het up and angry, stay calm. Make up and save a document on your computer regarding the matter. On this document you want to write the story as it plays out so far, include times of communications, replies to communications and all the details so far.

You need to remain professional and business like from now on.

1/ Print off a friendly reminder letter to the customer polity explaining the situation and request another cheque to be sent (keep a copy for yourself and file) give a reasonable time scale for the customer to return the cheque, 7 working days is adequate. Update your pc document of this communication and save.

2/ After 7 working days without receiving a cheque or you get another bouncing cheque. Send another letter demanding payment within 7 working days or the outstanding will be recovered by the county court. Be a little stronger in this letter but remain professional. Once again, keep a copy for yourself and update you document on your pc.

3/ After another 7 working days go onto this website https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome and follow the online instructions. When you come to the N1 claim form, briefly give details, times and dates of all the efforts you have made to recover the money. Fill out your name (Claimant) and the customers (Defendant). You will be requested to pay about £35, but you will get this back when you win.
Sit back and let the court do the leg work.

Good Luck
Matt  

[Hilton]

Thats not correct not with hsbc any way, its a 4 pound charge to the recipitant, we charge the customer 6 pounds if it happens.

[Helen]

There is always an admin charge of some kind whichever "side" you are on.
Paul make sure you copy the cheque returned from the bank and any correspondence you received along with it. When she gave you this cheque it was a sign of intention to pay, so that means she must have been satisfied with your service.
I would cut out the texting and if you really have to, "speak" to her, but would still go with the idea as per Colin on a hand delivered communication.

[Mike Halliday]

is the woman married? ask to speak to her husband, tell him unless you get your money you will kick his effin head in.... tell him he deserves it  because he married a robbing cow and as a married couple they share the responsibility for the money owed

woman play on the fact you will give her some leniency as she is female

[CATMAN]

In law a bounced cheque has no defence in  court . Never mind, it's a bad job, breach of contract, that is no defence. It is a bill of exchange, and has to be honoured.

I only last week, had the bitch from hell in court who bounced a 300 pound cheque, her defence was breach of contract, which as the judge said was no defence,  he ordered her to pay within 14 days with a £100 costs.

I did warn her,  know the law before taking such action, now she has a judgement against her name.

[Neil Williams]

is the woman married? ask to speak to her husband, tell him unless you get your money you will kick his effin head in.... tell him he deserves it  because he married a robbing cow and as a married couple they share the responsibility for the money owed

woman play on the fact you will give her some leniency as she is female

Text copied from the book 'How to win friends and influence people'  

[james roffey]

She cant wriggle out by now saying she is not happy with the clean, she issued you a cheque for payment.
Iif you follow this through she will lose, but have you got the inclination to do so.

[Paul Simpson]

Thanks for the replies. Well detailed Matt 

But Mikes response did make me laugh, although she was a single parent as she told me about her husband leaving her...........NOT SUPRISED REALLY! 

is the woman married? ask to speak to her husband, tell him unless you get your money you will kick his effin head in.... tell him he deserves it  because he married a robbing cow and as a married couple they share the responsibility for the money owed

woman play on the fact you will give her some leniency as she is female

[derek west]

why not offer her a pay monthly option rather than go down the legal route. its an option to consider, single mother, she may just be struggling and to judge her as a bee hatch is quite un professional in my eyes. yes shes dodging paying but at the end of the day she may just not have enough money to pay, either through a big bill just come in or just a mistake in her money allocation.

i'd probably have a chat with her and see what she says. once ive exhausted all the avenues, then i'd call her a bee hatch and take her to the cleaners, ha ha, cleaners, see what i did there, awwww forget it.

[Russ Chadd]

Just a thought... You said she is a single parent, is she renting the property or is it the house her husband left her in?
The reason I'm asking is because if she is renting and she has just had her carpets cleaned maybe she is looking to vacate.
Seriously.... Don't give this woman any more chances to pay mate, she is taking the p1$$ and has no intention in paying you.
How much would a solicitors letter cost?

[terrymaloy]

Bounced cheques are nothing but a pain.
You dont say how much the cheque was for but for future reference you should note the cheque guarantee card number on the back. (The long number on the card and also check the valid from dates).

It will at least guarantee payment up to £100

TM

[Paul Simpson]

Amount is £120 (upholstery) plus £7.50 bank charge
Not sure on the property situation, just remember her telling me "when my husband left" and 3 loud teenage kids coming home from school.

Derek, although your idea might work I don't think shes the kind of person who would respond to kindly to the suggestion, especially seeing as shes denying that she doesn't have the funds and her words "I've got plenty of money in that account"

Think I'll go with Matts suggestion, nice letter today posted through her door kindly asking for payment and explaining if she sends another cheque and it bounces again, more charges will be added on.
If nothing then a "not so nice letter" explaining I will take on proceedings, and then do so if nothing.

It p*ssed me off a bit with her text responses so intend to follow it through. 

[JandS]

There is no charge whatsoever to you
not even an admin charge.
Of the 2 I've had it never cost me a penny
and once I re submitted them I got paid,
mistake on the punters part both times.

"It will at least guarantee payment up to £100"

Aren't they getting rid of that in June?

John

[Neil Williams]

"It will at least guarantee payment up to £100"

Aren't they getting rid of that in June?

Yes

[Paul Simpson]

Following on from my post that started this thread, I followed Matts advice and documented everything I have done and what she has said.
Sent her a letter documenting everything to date and asking for payment within 7 days, no response.
Hand delivered a 2nd letter saying I require payment within 7 days or I will proceed legally, no response.
Then I rung her yesterday and asked if she intends to make payment to which she replied "no because I wasn't happy with the clean"
She now claims she pulled out the sofas and the backs were still dirty and that I hadn't done them (well I did), told her I did do the backs but if she wasn't happy I would pop round and go over them areas, thankfully she said she didn't want me to because the rest of the sofa wasn't up to much anyway and not as good as when she last had it done.
I wonder how many more she has done this to  

I asked her why it has taken so long to come back with that response, she said because I was waiting for it to dry, when I said it would have been dry within hours she then said well I have only just turned the cushions over within the last week.
I told her if she does not intend to pay then I will proceed with it legally to which she replied "thats fine, then I can give my side of the story"

Half of me wants to follow it through to cause her as much aggro over it as she has done for me but the other half of me is saying it is not worth the hassle, especially if I do not get a result.  
Should I just write it off? If there is a chance I won't win I don't think there is any point in proceeding.
Been to the CAB who were as much use as a paper umbrella, they don't want any specific details, told me what I already knew and then pointed me at their website and say all the information you should need is on there.  

Any failed lawyers out there  



By the way, clarified with my bank, will only get charged (as mentioned in my post) if I draw on the cheque funds, which I didn't 

[Joe H]

There is no charge whatsoever to you
not even an admin charge.
John

If you have a business account and a cheque bounces you usually get a charge of at least £6

[The Great One]

Following on from my post that started this thread, I followed Matts advice and documented everything I have done and what she has said.
Sent her a letter documenting everything to date and asking for payment within 7 days, no response.
Hand delivered a 2nd letter saying I require payment within 7 days or I will proceed legally, no response.
Then I rung her yesterday and asked if she intends to make payment to which she replied "no because I wasn't happy with the clean"
She now claims she pulled out the sofas and the backs were still dirty and that I hadn't done them (well I did), told her I did do the backs but if she wasn't happy I would pop round and go over them areas, thankfully she said she didn't want me to because the rest of the sofa wasn't up to much anyway and not as good as when she last had it done.
I wonder how many more she has done this to  

I asked her why it has taken so long to come back with that response, she said because I was waiting for it to dry, when I said it would have been dry within hours she then said well I have only just turned the cushions over within the last week.
I told her if she does not intend to pay then I will proceed with it legally to which she replied "thats fine, then I can give my side of the story"

Half of me wants to follow it through to cause her as much aggro over it as she has done for me but the other half of me is saying it is not worth the hassle, especially if I do not get a result.  
Should I just write it off? If there is a chance I won't win I don't think there is any point in proceeding.
Been to the CAB who were as much use as a paper umbrella, they don't want any specific details, told me what I already knew and then pointed me at their website and say all the information you should need is on there.  

Any failed lawyers out there  



By the way, clarified with my bank, will only get charged (as mentioned in my post) if I draw on the cheque funds, which I didn't 

There's more than one way to skin a cat 

[garry22]

Paul,

At the start of this thread, you said she bounced a cheque. In other words she carried out the act of paying.

She did not say "I am withholding payment because I am unhappy". The cheque was not honoured because there was not enough money in the account.

My experience (although it may be different for others) is that nothing happens until the court summons lands on the doorstep.

[Steve Rothwell]

when you asked her for the money at the end of the clean, she was happy with the work, otherwise she would not have issued you a cheque. If she was not happy with the work she would not have "paid".

The fact that there were not enough funds in the account either by design or intention is neither here nor there, she committed fraud.

If she was not happy with the clean she had 3 days to call you and stop the cheque. She did not.

She committed fraud.

All the rest is just a smoke screen.

Take her to court for fraud for the value of the cheque the costs and time.

Issue her a proper money online summons, and she has not got any defence.

Her side of the story does not come into it, she issued a cheque with insufficent funds.

hope this helps.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

There is virtually no defence in law for bouncing a cheque, just take her to court.

Only defences are if you comitted fruad which you didnt or if you gave her absolutely nothing in return, so you have an extremely strong case.

Disputing the quality of the job is not a defence and I would not even get involved in any discussion on this.

When filing the claim add on the court cost and say £50 for all the time wasted.

Cheers

Doug

[Paul Simpson]

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like I should persue it.
Looking at the online "Money claim" site it allows you to enter how much you are claiming for and works out the court costs and adds them.
Was only going to claim the orginal amount but how could I calculate extra costs, letters, time spent, etc to add on? Or can I claim for such things?

[garry22]

You can also claim interest, which in this case will be pennies but will show that you are serious.

[AJB]

Interest is allowed at 8.5% PA charged daily from the date
of invoice. So on £120 = 2.79p per day up to the date of
the hearing.
If you go to court you can also claim £50 for loss of earnings
on the day.
There is NO DEFENSE for a bounced cheque.
Worst case scenario she counter claims, and the judge sets aside
a percentage of your £120 invoice. But she has to prove work
not up to standard, which is pretty much impossible since she
gave you a cheque.

[Neil Williams]

There's more than one way to skin a cat 

I know what you mean even though we can't say on an open forum

If payment was not honoured because the cheque bounced on the back of insufficient funds, as opposed to her stopping the cheque then that is your arguement in court.
Let her continue with the 'Not happy' story but she could have stopped the cheque if that was the case. It bounced and now her excuse is a means to back that up.
As for the extra costs, you add anything that has caused you time and expense as long as it is reasonable. £5 per letter is reasonable. Interest per day is achievable on outstanding debt although be expected to have to explain your calculations. 

[Mike Halliday]

think about what she will say in court, remember she is not an honest woman.

the cheque bounced because she purposely did not transfer funds into her bills account to honour the cheque.

 she was not happy with the workmanship, she paid after the clean in a hurry as she needed to pick up her kids from school so did not carefully inspect the suite.

When she go home she realised that the workmanship was very poor. She tried on the evening to call you. but you didn't answer your phone......bla..bla...bla

she could concoct a very believable story why you are in the wrong and she is a poor single parent who has been the victum of a rogue trader who even made sexual advances towards her while cleaning

[Steve Rothwell]

but there is still no defence for issuing a cheque with insufficient funds.....

[Andrew Briscoe]

Just a thought, someone posted that you can re present the chq 3 times,
if she is single, with teenagers, she probably gets a poop load of our money
( think its called benefits ) which i think are paid into their account on a thursday, fortnightly, might be worth trying to put chq back in again on a wednesday, and hopefully get some of her benefits, she will probably get a bit having 3 kids.

Might be a crap idea but worth a try.

Andrew

[Bryan Griffith]

As you have already given her two letters requesting payment within a specific period this will go in your favour if you go via the small claims court.
I have only had a similar situation once in 14 years. wrote giving a time scale for payment and as expected no response to either letter, to compound the issue she moved to spain. My initial reaction was to write it off because you have to have her full name and a residing address so I thought i was on a loser. but she was renting the property via an agent I work for so I went to the small claims court and filed a claim it cost £35 within 5 minutes of informing the agent that I had made a claim via the courts they rang back saying she was prepared to pay the bill in full even though they said they couldnt get hold of her.
I then informed the agent that the bill was plus the £35 costs and if she didnt pay I would be seeking loss of earnings for the time spent in the court and travel time. Guess what she paid the full amount.
It is illegal to write a cheque knowing there is insufficient funds to cover it. has she wrote to youto complain about the job, if not the court will disregard her counter claim.
My advice is if you know you have done a good job stick out for payment or she will tell others who will try the same. I would take anyone to court who tried to shaft me .
Best of luck mate. Ask yourself what she would do if it was a reverse situation.
bryan

[Paul Simpson]

Thanks guys.
Had another look at the returned cheque after what Andrew said and as it says "refer to drawer please represent" I have been told it can be paid in again so might give it another go.
Bryan - As much as I want to go to court I have a feeling she is going to be the kind of person who wouldn't give 2 s**ts about a court letter, but if it gets returned again I might have to.

[gary hall]

Hi Paul -  this woman sounds like the nightmare scenario some of us come across albeit very rarely ,  but when we do its a real pain in the arse- take a step back and look at the facts :

1 / You did the clean and there was no complaint at the time of the quality of the clean -
2 / She was handed an invoice ( which I assume you kept a copy of)
3 / The cheque bounced
4 / She owes you money

End of - take her to the small claims - you may at least get some of the money back if not all - but what this does do is put her name out there as a bad payer -  I feel after my recent encounter ( non payment of work done at a flat in Wembley - me being  being accused of theft - situation still on going etc) that we must make a stand against these parasites -  we all hear stories of cowboy builders etc ( Watchdog take heed - and I know they read these types of forums ) but what about cowboy clients - I am sure that we all have a story to tell well lets tell it - make as much noise as possible to who ever will listen - the majority of ccs I come across are hard working decent people and we should not have to put up with this rubbish. Rant over

Good luck Paul - keep us posted as to what goes on - and remember what the great Jim Morrison said
"people are strange - when your a stranger"

[Paul Simpson]

After reading Gary Hall's post and how his situation got sorted, thought I'd let you know that this one came to a pleasant end as well.
After all her bulls**t and response of "take me to court"
I paid the cheque in again, over 3 weeks ago now, and it cleared.
So she got charged for her bounced cheque and the original cheque cleared as well 

[Neil Williams]

I am sure that we all have a story to tell well lets tell it -

Well done Paul on getting it sorted without the hassle of court papers.
I've done the small claims court stuff 3 times now and got my money on each occassion. One ended up in the county court with both of us sitting across the table at each other (that was a few hundred pounds). One finalised days before the hearing (that cost her £90 when settling the £60 bill weeks earlier could have saved her), and another backed down and paid literally the day before I was about to process the claim. There have been several others too who have paid up when my second letter with 'YOU MUST READ THIS' in red or else legal action will be proceeded with, has arrived on their doorstep.
Sorry but if I pay my debts on time I expect others to do the same for me.

[CATMAN]

There is no defence in a court for stopping a cheque.

Irrespective of what it is for, it is classed as a "bill of exchange" this is also the same for a Direct Debit.

People who stop cheques, do at their peril, as it's an open and shut case, with them getting a CCJ.

I recently took some bitch to court for £300 plus £100 costs. She and her hubby were blown out of he water by the judge ,  relaying the law to them on cheques and giving then 14 days to pay.

I must say it was a sweet moment, best was they said the were prepared to negotiate a settlement, NO WAY,  I punched the air on the way out, and they were behind me. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

[Rick Ward]

Directgov run free courses as you may well all know, I'm sure they're the same all over. Anyway one course is based on bad payers/ receiving money on time etc, it sets out your legal rights and how to factor in interest (legally). Probably a sign of the times- I know that I've been stiffed a couple of times, hence am booking on it. You only pay if you don't turn up (£20)
 I love the word free!!

[derek west]

wheres the course held ?

[Paul Simpson]

Got an email today to clean a corner sofa, just giving a mobile number.
Rang it and quizzed her a bit before I thought it sounds a bit like the customer invloved in this bounced cheque incident, but couldn't remember her name so asked her area and was convinced it was her so I gave a high price to put her off, "only wanted to pay £xxx amount" she said, which just happened to be the amount I did it for last time.
Checked the mobile number when I got off the phone and its only her again trying it on   
Either she thinks I've got a very short memory or more than likely she has gone through one of my other websites and not realised.

It is obviously a game for her and she has done it a few times and plans to do so again, so watch out anyone in Sussex. (Corner sofa, Hailsham)

[John Kelly]

She might have been trying to lure you back so she could eek her revenge in some horrible way.