[Chris - CBWC]

Cleaned a 4 bed detached house today, my first go at wfp and this was me doing one of the top windows, with my little girl doing her best to put me off! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6IysDKM15k - it's her Nan's house, I don't let my kids run amok in my customers' houses!!

Don't know how you guys look up at the windows all day, my neck was aching after the first set of windows!  I'm teaching myself to be able to clean with the pole either side of me, left or right handed, to lessen the neck ache among other things, but maybe I'm standing too close to the windows?

I was really surprised to see this only took 4 minutes, would definitely take me longer trad!  And I'll hopefully get quicker and better in time so will eat into the 4 minutes.  Can anyone give tips, advice, constructive criticism please, I'd like to know where I'm at with understanding wfp, how to do it properly and the technique.  Most of the windows came up really well, one pane was horrific, and a couple had spots and streaks on.  The water out of my pole is 0ppm so either I'm not scrubbing enough, rinsing well enough, or this is to be expected changing from trad to wfp with the residue on the glass.

[dave0123]

not bad for first attempt! and a first clean was it?

i would rinse closer to the window though in future about 1-2 inches away from glass.

[Chris - CBWC]

Yes first clean.  The back is also right by a main road, so the traffic and the storm had left grit all over the bottom frames too.

One thing I did realise, on doing the sills, was that I was going too far to the left and right and catching the bricks and cement, which then got dragged back across the sills as it was stuck to the brush!  So for top, I'll scrub the sill, just keep away from the bricks, and do the same for bottoms or just use an old towel.

I should've videoed me doing the downstairs as well, I found it much trickier with having to do top frames normally, then put pole horizontal to lower frames and scrub the windows, then try and rinse with pole horizontal.

[Jonny 87]

Really good technique there mate. Nice and thorough. Keep it up, and don't become a splash and dash!

Few things,

On a window like that, they are one of the hardest types of windows to get right first time because of trapped dirt in the frames of the two hopper windows in the middle.

So when I'm doing a first clean on windows like that I would make sure to scrub all the frames first, then Give a thorough rinse of all the frames. mayb even moving to the upstairs window to the left and doing the same there.

Then I move back to the first window and start doing the glass.

Try concentrating on the top 4 inches of the pane of glass first, so move along side to side a couple of times, then give 2 thorough full length scrubs of the pane. Top to bottom, all the way, instead of little scrubs like you did.

Then Run the brush along the top edge, down the side, give the bottom edge a scrub, then back up the other side, and give a slow rinse off the glass making sure stay away from the top 3 inches to prevent dirty runs out of the seals.

You've done really well though as you've been able to see the results and how good they were.

First cleans are always the hardest to get perfect.

Keep it up.

In the end you will be able to do the same window in about 1:30 seconds. Great stuff.

[Chris - CBWC]

Thanks very much for this.  Having done a few houses today, I can see I'm soaking the top frames (and middle ones) and then scrubbing the top of the window too much.  This is leaving too much water at the top so even after rinsing, there's too much water running down and dripping down from the top frame and seal, which I assume is what will leave the streaks and spots.

Gradually got quicker as time went on, I tried explaining to customers about the change over but they really weren't bothered, I was far more worried than they were!

I did manage to soak the inside of the first customer's house though, at the bottom of their doors there's a channel for water to run, which I rapidly filled then overflowed.  Someone recently posted how to clean those, I'll have to find it.  And I turned the flow down on the single pane windows with wooden frames as they're more likely to leak I think and no I didn't do the frames!

[Avo]

Yes your rinse should be "the closer the better" but FairPlay mate you will get faster over time..
The spotting could be the distance rinse that you were doing causes splashing.

[colin purewater]

I would put good money on them windows
Having drips all over the glass


Not knocking it bud but you need to check
Every Job when it's done

[Lee GLS]

Also, if that is an streamer brush then it's not really suitable for first cleans.

[Chris - CBWC]

I would put good money on them windows
Having drips all over the glass

Not knocking it bud but you need to check
Every Job when it's done

OK, but tell me why and help me out!

It's a dual trim sill brush and correct, not suitable for first cleans!  I've a got a flocked brush on there now, stiffer bristles, much better.

[Clever Forum Name]

Jesus mate look with your eyes and not your neck. You will put your neck out for weeks doing it like that. You are standing way to close to the windows.

You should be able to clean most top windows with only the slightest of tilted heads. How you have yours you will be in agony!

If you want a good tip (and i mean a really good tip) wear a backwards baseball cap. Have the peak so it will dig into your back, if you look up at too sharp an angle.

Technique will come, but having put my neck out for a nearly a year due to crap training, thought i would point it out straight away

[wightsurf]

I would not rinse the little window then straight after rinse the larger one under, and for sure not on a first clean.

[Lee GLS]

I would put good money on them windows
Having drips all over the glass

Not knocking it bud but you need to check
Every Job when it's done

OK, but tell me why and help me out!

It's a dual trim sill brush and correct, not suitable for first cleans!  I've a got a flocked brush on there now, stiffer bristles, much better.

I personally think you need to be more aggressive in you technique. Give the tops of the frames a really good scrub, I tend to concentrate on one section at a time, do the tops of the fan lights first and give them a really good rinse, then the tops of the other 2 windows and rinse.  Then Move on the the glass and the rest of the frames at the same time, really get the bristles into the corners and do the top of the glass with a side to side cleaning action, really go for it don't just tickle the glass like you are doing in the video.

[wightsurf]

As said work in sections
for me I would do tops of all the frames but the little window top frames first then moving along to the larger window top frames either side.

Next I would wash glass on the 2 small windows including the lower frames and rinse

then I would finish on the large windows touching the side frames as I clean the glass
rinse and seal swipe 

job done

[Chris - CBWC]

Jesus mate look with your eyes and not your neck. You will put your neck out for weeks doing it like that. You are standing way to close to the windows.

You should be able to clean most top windows with only the slightest of tilted heads. How you have yours you will be in agony!

If you want a good tip (and i mean a really good tip) wear a backwards baseball cap. Have the peak so it will dig into your back, if you look up at too sharp an angle.

Technique will come, but having put my neck out for a nearly a year due to crap training, thought i would point it out straight away

Yep very sore, thank you for this!!  Cap ready for tomorrow.  I'm using a 10" gooseneck but the angle isn't adjustable, it felt like I had to get closer to the windows to get the bristles square on the glass to scrub it properly, otherwise, with the change in pole angle, the bristles would be pointing more downwards.  I do have an adjustable neck but it's a standard one, not a gooseneck.  What do you use and are you regularly having to change the angle on any adjustable neck?

I personally think you need to be more aggressive in you technique. Give the tops of the frames a really good scrub, I tend to concentrate on one section at a time, do the tops of the fan lights first and give them a really good rinse, then the tops of the other 2 windows and rinse.  Then Move on the the glass and the rest of the frames at the same time, really get the bristles into the corners and do the top of the glass with a side to side cleaning action, really go for it don't just tickle the glass like you are doing in the video.

As said work in sections
for me I would do tops of all the frames but the little window top frames first then moving along to the larger window top frames either side.

Next I would wash glass on the 2 small windows including the lower frames and rinse

then I would finish on the large windows touching the side frames as I clean the glass
rinse and seal swipe 

job done

Thanks guys, I'm doing similar windows tomorrow so this is a big help.  Cleaning today I noticed all the extra drips and runs from the top, I keep going back to the top frames and very tops of the windows when I need to do it really really well at the start and then leave the tops alone.

[Clever Forum Name]

I use a resi neck from Gardiner.

But the longer one. It's about 4/5 inches.

I change the angle maybe 4 times
A month lol.

I use a dual trim sill brush. Very fast and great for sills.

The neck thing you can hide a tennis ball in your collar as well. If you don't wanna do the gangster cap lol

[andyM]

You definitely need to stand back more, put more pressure on your pole so that brush is splayed on the glass and scrub faster with a decent water flow.
Make it look like you are scrubbing the window clean.....not tickling it.  
That window should take no more than 30 seconds to 1 minute on a maintenance clean.
And don't lift the brush that far off the glass, you only need to lift off an inch or two.

[Crystal-clear]

get more pressure , that window should take no where near as long as the vid, as long as your water is 0 ppm or up to 10 most people say , dont worry just give it a good rince ,

[Chris - CBWC]

OK day 2 observations!

Neck
I use an SLX18 and extended it to its max (you're not supposed to clamp it on the red tape bits right?).  I stepped as far away from the windows as I could and started cleaning - eventually found the right angle on the resi neck, immediate improvement all round.  Trouble is, I wear glasses and moving my eyes up, rather than my head, means I look above my glasses and therefore the windows become all blurred.  Urgh, ridiculous, but I can't be the only WFPer with glasses...  I'll get contact lenses if that will help, but anything simpler for now?  My neck is slightly less painful stepping further away from the window, but you then lose some of the control of the pole and there's an increased strain on the arms, shoulders and back.  Presumably the SLX22 or SLX25 would be better, but again, being further away from the windows means more arm and back work.


Hoses
I have spent today and yesterday walking backwards and forwards dragging bits of hose around so I can get round a bush, or up to the windows, or round to the back garden - is there a knack to this that I'm missing?  Same with after finishing the house, hose everywhere and needs getting in the van though I pick it up as I walk back and that's less of a problem but still irritating!


Time
Please tell me it took you all ages on each house when you first went WFP? !!  I think I'm on around 90 minutes per 4 bed detached, maybe I shouldn't be doing the massive houses first, bit soul destroying, but they all have to be done.  Or maybe it's more than that, I'm only getting 3 or 4 houses done each day     When I go to do them the second, third, fourth times, in what way will it be different?  A quick pass on the frames, quick scrub of window, rinse and go?

It was great advice to scrub all the frames first, then rinse all the frames, then the various different panes, allowing time for them to stop dripping before working on the pane under it.  It's a noticeably better job, and I'm planning which window to do when before I turn the tap on, plus a flow rate of 85 is so much better.  I've also realised I usually don't need to scrub the frames fiercely as the dirt gets washed and then rinsed away - this is where I was burning a lot of my energy away.


Carabiner
I owe a beer to the gent who advised he uses one of these to keep his hose tap close by - brilliant idea and I am chasing it round the garden much less!  Though I do get a wet a*se when I open and close the tap and a bit of water spurts out.


I think that's everything, thanks all.  Now for stretching and exercises - one of the exercises my physio has always recommended has been to roll up a towel, lie on the floor on your back with the rolled up towel just below (or just on) your neck and straight down your spine.  Then put your arms out at about 45 degrees above your head.  Great for shoulders and pecks.

[oldman]

CBWC, remember Dennis Taylor the snooker player with his 'Upside-Down' glasses...should do the trick  .......

 http://www.glasses4less.net/acatalog/SNOOKER_SPECTACLES_UNISEX_METAL_SUPRA.html#.UvEbFWfuOcw

[Mike #1]

If them 4 bed houses are like twice the size of your average 4 bed house without a conny then you are taking about 45 mins to long .

An SLX22-25 would be far better as just been another 3ft or so away from the window whilst doing upstairs windows is so much easier buying an extra section to put on your current pole if that is viable .

Brush angle IMO is wrong it needs adjusting by a couple of clicks . As lee said the windows need a good scrubbing not to aggressive just in the middle of aggressive and what you are doing now .

On first cleans give tops of frame a good scrub first then give top of frame a  heavy rinse ensuring water runs clear  then scrub rest of frame and sill .

Then run the brush over a lower part of frame to get the dirt out of the brush then give top of frame another rinse just to be certain all dirt is rinsed away .

Depending on the house i may just do the all the front frames first and side window(s) then start on the glass of first window cleaned scrubbing 1 pane of glass then rinsing then moving onto the next pane of glass then finishing off with running brush over the sill .

As for the hose snagging it is a learning curve which you get the knack off overtime . Mike

[wightsurf]

Ask on here and try and find someone close to you who can show you how its done. You really need to be shown I think as your time on a property is way above what I would expect from a new WFP person. I have shown quiet a few over the years and its simple to pick up.

[Chris - CBWC]

If them 4 bed houses are like twice the size of your average 4 bed house without a conny then you are taking about 45 mins to long .

An SLX22-25 would be far better as just been another 3ft or so away from the window whilst doing upstairs windows is so much easier buying an extra section to put on your current pole if that is viable .

Brush angle IMO is wrong it needs adjusting by a couple of clicks . As lee said the windows need a good scrubbing not to aggressive just in the middle of aggressive and what you are doing now .

On first cleans give tops of frame a good scrub first then give top of frame a  heavy rinse ensuring water runs clear  then scrub rest of frame and sill .

Then run the brush over a lower part of frame to get the dirt out of the brush then give top of frame another rinse just to be certain all dirt is rinsed away .

Depending on the house i may just do the all the front frames first and side window(s) then start on the glass of first window cleaned scrubbing 1 pane of glass then rinsing then moving onto the next pane of glass then finishing off with running brush over the sill .

As for the hose snagging it is a learning curve which you get the knack off overtime . Mike

So 45 minutes for a 4 bed detached?  I was doing that trad!  I'll get quicker, it's scrubbing and rinsing the filthy frames that's slowing me I think.  Plus I don't think I could be any less efficient with setting up before even starting the clean - pump on, pole and reel out, unwinding hose etc.  How do you guys control the pole when rinsing?  Holding it an inch or two off the glass is not only difficult to see but difficult to do, holding the pole steady and doing it slowly is hard enough but then trying to speed it up, it'll be worse with a longer pole and standing further away from the house!

[Crystal-clear]

cbwc i think u might be over cleaning first cleans can take longer but with experience it aint that long 90 mins for a house is way too long 30 mins 45 mins i mean maintenance clean can really be done within 30 mins with a good flow rate , and no large connys

[Crystal-clear]

turn your flow rate up it will speed u up.

[Mike #1]

If them 4 bed houses are like twice the size of your average 4 bed house without a conny then you are taking about 45 mins to long .

An SLX22-25 would be far better as just been another 3ft or so away from the window whilst doing upstairs windows is so much easier buying an extra section to put on your current pole if that is viable .

Brush angle IMO is wrong it needs adjusting by a couple of clicks . As lee said the windows need a good scrubbing not to aggressive just in the middle of aggressive and what you are doing now .

On first cleans give tops of frame a good scrub first then give top of frame a  heavy rinse ensuring water runs clear  then scrub rest of frame and sill .

Then run the brush over a lower part of frame to get the dirt out of the brush then give top of frame another rinse just to be certain all dirt is rinsed away .

Depending on the house i may just do the all the front frames first and side window(s) then start on the glass of first window cleaned scrubbing 1 pane of glass then rinsing then moving onto the next pane of glass then finishing off with running brush over the sill .

As for the hose snagging it is a learning curve which you get the knack off overtime . Mike

So 45 minutes for a 4 bed detached?  I was doing that trad!  I'll get quicker, it's scrubbing and rinsing the filthy frames that's slowing me I think.  Plus I don't think I could be any less efficient with setting up before even starting the clean - pump on, pole and reel out, unwinding hose etc.  How do you guys control the pole when rinsing?  Holding it an inch or two off the glass is not only difficult to see but difficult to do, holding the pole steady and doing it slowly is hard enough but then trying to speed it up, it'll be worse with a longer pole and standing further away from the house!

The 45 mins i mentioned were in relation to a first clean with WFP not a regular clean, A large 4-5 bed house without conny i would expect to get done in less than 30 mins .

As crystal said turn up your flow rate for now, And possibly fit some 1mm jets .

What size tank do you have out of interest . Mike

[Mike #1]

Yes first clean.  The back is also right by a main road, so the traffic and the storm had left grit all over the bottom frames too.

One thing I did realise, on doing the sills, was that I was going too far to the left and right and catching the bricks and cement, which then got dragged back across the sills as it was stuck to the brush!  So for top, I'll scrub the sill, just keep away from the bricks, and do the same for bottoms or just use an old towel.

I should've videoed me doing the downstairs as well, I found it much trickier with having to do top frames normally, then put pole horizontal to lower frames and scrub the windows, then try and rinse with pole horizontal.

With regards to doing downstairs sills after almost 6yrs wfp i still do a fair amount with old towels as some sills can take ages to get all the muck out ,

You can concentrate more on the lower sills once you get speeded up and you have converted all your round , I found when converting my round a lot of custys liked the lower sills dried off along with a quick wipe over of door mouldings and sill more so if they are coming out to pay you . Mike

[Chris - CBWC]

Exactly 8 weeks later I'm back at the same house today to hopefully video the progress I've made!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_JwB-0LVxw

You'll notice I'm over cleaning the tops of the windows, this is because if I only go left to right across the top a couple of times, I'm finding the bristles are leaving droplets behind, and as I'm not rinsing them away (they're right at the top) then they dry spotty.  I find going up and down after the left and right stops this but it's obviously taking more time to do, and round the front, where the sun dried them quicker, there are still a few spots so advice on this is welcome.

I wanted to clean the first windows as if they were filthy first cleans, with the third window done as a regular maintenance clean but ended up doing them pretty much the same.

[8weekly]

I only watched the first top windows (paint drying), but my observations:

- It looked awkward with the distance you are from the glass and looked like the brushing was too gentle.
- I rarely clean the bit above the actual window frame. That would be full of trapped dirt. If and when I do I scrub harder and longer and I would rinse more.
-I rinse the frame too. Not just the glass.

[Chris - CBWC]

Thanks 8weekly, I know about the paint drying, not exactly a riveting watch but needs must!

I use an SLX18 and it's fully extended, that's as far as I can get from the window.  Any closer and it increases the strain on my neck, plus there has been plenty of advice about getting as far from the window as possible.  It doesn't feel awkward, maybe it's the camera angle.

Gentle as in slow, or weak, or both?  If I speed up, my control worsens, like hitting the plastic on the brush against the brickwork, or getting the bristles on the brick, meaning brick dust...  The outer bristles are splayed so the inner ones can scrub and clean too.  I'm trying to hold the pole a little less rigidly and tightly, and press down on the glass a little less as I'm getting pains in my arms and hands very quickly, and I've not been doing this long at all.


>>- I rarely clean the bit above the actual window frame. That would be full of trapped dirt. If and when I do I scrub harder and longer and I would rinse more.

Yea this explains why my first cleans are all taking so long.  I've taken a different (wrong?) definition of "top of the frame" and I'm scrubbing the bit above, where it's filthy on every window, then rinsing it all off, then scrubbing until the water is clear.  If I just did the part of the frame above the glass pane, that faces outwards, I'd be a lot quicker.  I do normally do it as I've described above, I didn't this time as I'd already done it on the clean before and could clearly see how clean the frames still were   Which is also why I didn't rinse the frames - I would do this if I could see any dirt on them.

The bottom windows are all good i.e. no spotting at the top of the pane, so it's my technique with the upstairs windows somehow.

[8weekly]

The control will come. Likewise the strength in shoulders/joints. I still feel you are a long way back, but if it suits you that way....

On a first clean I would scrub everything, but after that just the frame on the opening parts.

If the ground ones are coming good, quite possibly scrubbing pressure is the issue.

[Perfect Windows]

In the first video (but less visibly on the second video) oit looked like you were working with your hands above shoulder level.  Try to avoid this if possible.  Your shoulders will thank you for it.

Vin

[gary999]

You are new to this so i wouldnt worry too much about your
speed get your technique right one that suits you and the speed
will come especially when you become more confident in the results.

personally i would have the brush on a more shallower angle
you would be able to scrub more smoothly and agressively
maybe a little too far away standing position but if it feels comfortable
carry on.

plenty of rinsing with a good flow and you wont go far wrong,over
time you will be able alter the flow to suit the job and on certain types
of property you will learn that you might only need minimum rinse
or no rinsing at all.

Stay patient and keep cracking on matey and im sure you will get there

[Chris - CBWC]

In the first video (but less visibly on the second video) oit looked like you were working with your hands above shoulder level.  Try to avoid this if possible.  Your shoulders will thank you for it.

Vin

I watched myself carefully today, looking out for this.  I'm left handed, so on upstairs windows, I try to keep my left hand as low and as close to my body as possible.  My right arm is extended and is usually at shoulder height, or maybe slightly higher.  There seems to be a balance between pressing down with my right arm to scrub harder, and pressing down with my left arm to counter the base of the pole from moving up because of the pressure on the top of the pole - if you see what I mean?  Seesaw effect, effectively...

personally i would have the brush on a more shallower angle
you would be able to scrub more smoothly and agressively
maybe a little too far away standing position but if it feels comfortable
carry on.

Was standing too close, now standing too far away haha.  Posts higher up on this thread have said to keep as far away from the house as possible, but I only have an SLX18 so I can't get too far anyway.  I adjusted the resi neck so it would hopefully sit flush on the window - when you say narrower, do you mean bend the brush slightly facing downwards or upwards?  If it's not flush, it's more difficult to splay the bristles - I find this on lower downstairs windows where I have to clean sideways and am standing too close to them.


Thanks very much for all your help.  I had a customer (who sacked their previous WFP cleaner to move to me, I was trad then!) come up to me yesterday to remark on how great her windows and frames look, and that her neighbours (plural ) had also commented on how great it looked, so it is really, really appreciated that I'm making great progress.

[rosskesava]

This may sound a silly point but as you've neck strain already, learn to use the pole with both arms. i.e. left handed and right handed.