[lee_dewing]

Just had problem with newish custy (4th clean, £25 job)

Did 3rd clean, custie was on holiday, when she got back sent her a polite text reminding her to pay.

Also add she was cash on the door then wanted my bank details so it was easier for her to transfered so obliged.

Showed up last wednesday and custie appologised for not paying and would pay now online.

See her on computer through the window while i was cleaning.

Got home no payment.

Sent another polite text reminder friday no reply and no payment.

Don't know if I have jumped the gun but today sent text saying "i was dissapointed to see no payment made, and could she please do so and debt would be passes onto recovery agency shortly" and my bank details again.

Got text back saying how dissapointed she was at recieving a text like that from me and i would be paid the end of this week and she no longer wanted my services.

I replied "thank you for your text confirming payment for the end of this week.


Just wondered how long you guys go until you have to send the unfriendly text/letter for payment.

Have i over reacted?
Oh by the way customer is pregnant and giving birth in two weeks.
(that makes me look a right sh!t bag now

Lee

[R.C Property]

Bank payments can take upto 5 working days to come through depending on bank.

Depending on customer, if only a few quid then only a week or 2.
If good customers then maybe a month and just add it onto the bill. Then if no payment for the 2 just a polite reminder.

[ben M]

have i over reacted? i think you have to be honest!
maybe she was waiting some money to come in, no need to say:and debt would be passes onto recovery agency shortly
If you wanted to lose the customer, you couldn't have done better! 
next time,be more patient 

[bobplum]

i think the problem here is texting,i personally would not like to receive one for window cleaning and you should have given it a few more days at least..just my opinion

[AuRavelling79]

Just had problem with newish custy (4th clean, £25 job)

Did 3rd clean, custie was on holiday, when she got back sent her a polite text reminding her to pay.

Also add she was cash on the door then wanted my bank details so it was easier for her to transfered so obliged.

Showed up last wednesday and custie appologised for not paying and would pay now online.

See her on computer through the window while i was cleaning.

Got home no payment.

Sent another polite text reminder friday no reply and no payment.

Don't know if I have jumped the gun but today sent text saying "i was dissapointed to see no payment made, and could she please do so and debt would be passes onto recovery agency shortly" and my bank details again.

Got text back saying how dissapointed she was at recieving a text like that from me and i would be paid the end of this week and she no longer wanted my services.

I replied "thank you for your text confirming payment for the end of this week.


Just wondered how long you guys go until you have to send the unfriendly text/letter for payment.

Have i over reacted?
Oh by the way customer is pregnant and giving birth in two weeks.
(that makes me look a right sh!t bag now

Lee

You did exactly the right thing Lee.

Three polite reminders - she lies to you and on the fourth time of reminder you tell her how it is. She would be a problem customer from now on in.

You now need to decide whether to write it off or continue chasing.

If she is having money worries then she has my sympathy but if so she should come clean and not be too proud to admit it. Then you would know what to work with.

The pregnancy probably heightens her emotions but at the end of the day she won't be whinging to the leccy or gas about not paying and being upset by their reminders will she?

[LT carpet cleaning]

The pregnancy probably heightens her emotions but at the end of the day she won't be whinging to the leccy or gas about not paying and being upset by their reminders will she?

No, but those services are essential, window cleaning is not. I would have cancelled the OP too if I received a text like that.

[lee_dewing]

Thanks Gold.

If was honest maybe I could have worded text better.

But customer was so appologetic on door step.

When i knocked for key to lock her gate for her as she is pregant I mentioned how i had just text her my bank details again and did she get text; she said i'm busy and haven't looked yet.

Which did get my back up abit tbh.

If she had said i will pay you end of next week then o.k

But to say your gonna pay and then don't isn't on in my book.

All my polite text messages didn't recieve a response but the last one did.

If I don't get payment by the end of the week then I will use thomas higgins letter before payment, don't know wether to put in her husbands name as she'll probably be having a baby.

I know how it feels to be hard up as my mrs was made redundant oct.

Customer lives in 6 bed detached house probably 2 million+ and she is renting it at probably £2000 a month upwards.
Just got back from holiday abroad, merc jeep etc.

[C o z y]

I've had that about 4 or 5 times every year Lee. I was a bit soft with a couple of my "ex" custies and let them run up 3 cleans in the past. Until A couple of them got the idea that payment was an option. Had to take 2 of them to small claims in the end. They had to pay the costs, (about 45 quid) and the debt, plus about 5% interest. Takes about 3 months here and can be done postal, but if they want to argue, then it goes before the judge, too late then. PAY!

To avoid this, I don't let anyone get over 2 cleans without paying. Average price for my domestics is about 13 quid.

I don't think your actions were too soon or heavy handed. You're running a business, no matter how big or small. Service given, payment expected.

[Spruce]

Thanks Gold.

If was honest maybe I could have worded text better.

But customer was so appologetic on door step.

When i knocked for key to lock her gate for her as she is pregant I mentioned how i had just text her my bank details again and did she get text; she said i'm busy and haven't looked yet.

Which did get my back up abit tbh.

If she had said i will pay you end of next week then o.k

But to say your gonna pay and then don't isn't on in my book.

All my polite text messages didn't recieve a response but the last one did.

If I don't get payment by the end of the week then I will use thomas higgins letter before payment, don't know wether to put in her husbands name as she'll probably be having a baby.

I know how it feels to be hard up as my mrs was made redundant oct.

Customer lives in 6 bed detached house probably 2 million+ and she is renting it at probably £2000 a month upwards.
Just got back from holiday abroad, merc jeep etc.

If you don't get payment, start procedings for the amount she owes.

Stating that you very disappointed not to have received payment when promised is a recognised way of putting your point across without being confrontational.

Keep copies of texts in paper form and get started. Sometimes its good for this sort of thing to travel the grapevine as other customers will also learn that they can't mess you about.

BTW, not matter how well the job is priced, this customer isn't worth having, pregnant or not.

The thread on solicitors letters may come in handy.

[Mike #1]

Lee you are not jumping the gun if you feel messed about but as already mentioned it can take up to 5 days for some banks to authorise payment , I have a custy who pays online on the day of the clean and it always takes 5 days .

I give custys 7 days at the minute but i have 2 custys who are taking the the pee one custy works from home and is on PC everytime i clean but never has any cash they will be getting dropped .

Second custy i chased for 10 weeks the husband swore blind he had made payment to me and convinced his wife he had until i caught her in one night and told her i was still waiting for payment so was very very embarassed .

Cleaned again on friday i will call tonight and if not in they will get knocked at 7am as i know payment from them reaches my account in 20 mins . Mike

[lee_dewing]

Stating that you very disappointed not to have received payment when promised is a recognised way of putting your point across without being confrontational

I know it's been done to me that line but i paid bill immediately

http://www.thomashiggins.com/pages/letter_before_action.aspx
Here's thomas higgins link £2.20 for letter before payment.

Spruce you say keep paper form of text's is that just writing out on paper (sorry i'm a simple windie.)

I'm glad she responded to txt saying payment at end of week.
As you say evidence.
Thanks Spruce.

[lee_dewing]

M & M   I understand what your saying about payment showing up in your bank.

Custie has admitted though she hasn't paid and won't til the end of this week; that's the story so far anyway

Sorry to hear about your messers too.

Done a standing order letter now which i am sending out to the same old offenders who i tolerate as they pay but late
Telling them that everyone is switching over but in truth it's just the 5-10% of custies that drag out payment.

Especially the mums over my daughters school who sometimes say hello to me or don't when they owe money

Lee

[Mike #1]

Good idea about late payers and standing order just for them will pinch that idea mate thanks . Mike

[lee_dewing]

M&M, here's letter i'm using edit to your liking, may save your fingers and keyboard
Make sure your full name is on letter as customer phoned me from bank as needed my last name for banks reference.
Custie can also set up themselves at home on pc.
Good luck mate.
Sent a couple more letters out today.
I do change standing order date tbh they won't all be the same but adjust standing order date so money goes into my account before their clean or not if the case be
Will lose some but past caring now rather get around my decent custies a bit quicker than waste time on the messers.



From : Lee Dewing,  your window cleaner.
Dear Customer,

Just to inform you as from  2013,  I am changing over to Standing Order, for payments.
There is also a price increase of £1

To clean the windows of your property next time will be £6  .

I call on a 5 week basis, so 10 cleans a year.

So could you please set up a standing order for my services of  £5 a month.   

(cost of 10 cleans = £60 divided by 12 months; therefore standing order = £5).

My  Bank Account, Sort Code: ****   Account No: *******.

Please could you set up the standing order for  the date :  January 28th 2013.       
and continuing for the  28th  every month.

(I have chosen this date for all my customers so it is easy to check everyone online
at once, sorry but I can not alter the date.)

Please   email me conformation of doing this:   dcs*********.com

I hope you continue with my service but if I do not receive an email or text confirming set up of your standing order Before  January  28th  2013  then I will take this as cancellation of my services.
If you have an outstanding balance, then please pay by internet transfer to my bank using my account details listed above.

Many thanks,  Lee Dewing, your window cleaner.
***your address email mobile etc

[robertphil]

its the toecap  they understand !

[Spruce]

Stating that you very disappointed not to have received payment when promised is a recognised way of putting your point across without being confrontational

I know it's been done to me that line but i paid bill immediately

http://www.thomashiggins.com/pages/letter_before_action.aspx
Here's thomas higgins link £2.20 for letter before payment.

Spruce you say keep paper form of text's is that just writing out on paper (sorry i'm a simple windie.)

I'm glad she responded to txt saying payment at end of week.
As you say evidence.
Thanks Spruce.

On the latest phones you should have a usb connector that links your phone to your computer for backups. With Nokia we used Nokias PC Suit. By opening each text we can print a hardcopy.

I'm back to my old 10 year old Nokia which doesn't have that facility as both of the newer ones ended up in the washing machine.

[CLEANCARE WC]

Stating that you very disappointed not to have received payment when promised is a recognised way of putting your point across without being confrontational

I know it's been done to me that line but i paid bill immediately

http://www.thomashiggins.com/pages/letter_before_action.aspx
Here's thomas higgins link £2.20 for letter before payment.

Spruce you say keep paper form of text's is that just writing out on paper (sorry i'm a simple windie.)

I'm glad she responded to txt saying payment at end of week.
As you say evidence.
Thanks Spruce.

On the latest phones you should have a usb connector that links your phone to your computer for backups. With Nokia we used Nokias PC Suit. By opening each text we can print a hardcopy.

I'm back to my old 10 year old Nokia which doesn't have that facility as both of the newer ones ended up in the washing machine.

You should of washed them trad its a much better finish 

[SunShineCleaning]

Is this for all 4 cleans or just the one?

If it's all 4 you have been patient and I would stop calling.

If it's for one then you are getting your knickers in a twist for nothing.

If she is 2 weeks to giving birth her thoughts will be elsewhere and hormones all over the shop. Has there been a problem with the other 3 payments?

[AuRavelling79]

The pregnancy probably heightens her emotions but at the end of the day she won't be whinging to the leccy or gas about not paying and being upset by their reminders will she?

No, but those services are essential, window cleaning is not. I would have cancelled the OP too if I received a text like that.

Ok then hummer, let's say she bought some "non-essential" drinks while on "non-essential" holiday on her credit card or used her "non-essential" phone package - do you think they will let her go a few weeks past payment without charging interest or a few months without taking action?

If you would have cancelled the OP for the text received then I'm sure the OP would have every reason for dropping you as a "non-essential" customer.

[SunShineCleaning]

How many acctual 'non-payers' do you really have, All mine will pay up at some point. If you spend all your time chasing the payment you can loose sight of their value.

[SunShineCleaning]

The pregnancy probably heightens her emotions but at the end of the day she won't be whinging to the leccy or gas about not paying and being upset by their reminders will she?

No, but those services are essential, window cleaning is not. I would have cancelled the OP too if I received a text like that.

Ok then hummer, let's say she bought some "non-essential" drinks while on "non-essential" holiday on her credit card or used her "non-essential" phone package - do you think they will let her go a few weeks past payment without charging interest or a few months without taking action?

If you would have cancelled the OP for the text received then I'm sure the OP would have every reason for dropping you as a "non-essential" customer.

The difference is we are not leanding them money, we are selling our time, I'm glad my customers have money and don't really think twice about me, it means they can afford me.

[CLEANCARE WC]

How many acctual 'non-payers' do you really have, All mine will pay up at some point. If you spend all your time chasing the payment you can loose sight of their value.

Almost....Imo if you spend all your time chasing payment the job has no value.

[SunShineCleaning]

How many acctual 'non-payers' do you really have, All mine will pay up at some point. If you spend all your time chasing the payment you can loose sight of their value.

Almost....Imo if you send all your time chasing payment the job has no value.

Maybe. I can't speak for anyone else but my money always turns up, maybe with an odd exception. I just think that you can expend alot of mental energy dealing with things that will come good eventually. I can't see the value in stress like that.

[CLEANCARE WC]

How many acctual 'non-payers' do you really have, All mine will pay up at some point. If you spend all your time chasing the payment you can loose sight of their value.

Almost....Imo if you send all your time chasing payment the job has no value.

Maybe. I can't speak for anyone else but my money always turns up, maybe with an odd exception. I just think that you can expend alot of mental energy dealing with things that will come good eventually. I can't see the value in stress like that.

I think were on the same page here, but customers like that do stress me out. so i have thought of a solution to take the stress away hopefully avoiding dropping the customer.
My mega late payers are getting the option of standing order, 6 cleans up front or goodbye.

[SunShineCleaning]

How many acctual 'non-payers' do you really have, All mine will pay up at some point. If you spend all your time chasing the payment you can loose sight of their value.

Almost....Imo if you send all your time chasing payment the job has no value.

Maybe. I can't speak for anyone else but my money always turns up, maybe with an odd exception. I just think that you can expend alot of mental energy dealing with things that will come good eventually. I can't see the value in stress like that.

I think were on the same page here, but customers like that do stress me out. so i have thought of a solution to take the stress away hopefully avoiding dropping the customer.
My mega late payers are getting the option of standing order, 6 cleans up front or goodbye.

I have about 1/4 now on SO and prob 1/3 who pay within a few days by bank transfer.

The offer of SO for bad payers works for me as well.

[CLEANCARE WC]

I leave an sae with my slip for sending a cheque it also has online payment details on & im noticing more customers paying via online banking which is great.
A few commercials that pay by BACS but I dont currently have any customers on Standing order.

[lee_dewing]

I don't think your actions were too soon or heavy handed. You're running a business, no matter how big or small. Service given, payment expected.

Thanks Chris.

Sunshine cleaning, custie now owes 2 cleans £50. (she was fine until she went credit transfer; out of sight out of mind ).

Sunshine, I can see what your saying and maybe she would of come good eventually, but I look at it this way; would my business be better or worse if all my customers were like this one?

I've been doing this job 7 yrs on my own and did 18 months for another windie.
It's always the custies you least expect become a problem.

As said gradually get serial late payers onto standing order or don't have me.

I don't collect so cash/cheque at the door, or cheque in the s.a.e i leave.
Then I offered payment by credit transfer but still doesn't work as forgetful customers instead of posting cheque forget to transfer funds

Thanks everyone for your opinions much appriciated.

Lee

[Mike #1]

Thanks for the standing order letter info mate . Mike

[lee_dewing]

Your welcome Mike.

Not a new idea s/o's   on here but wish i started years ago.

If late payer won't switch over to this then I know i've done everything I can to keep em.

Because eventually with the late payers you end up having the No it's 2 cleans not 3 window cleaner, or i paid you last time, the list goes on

[home6442]

I wonder how these late payers would feel, if at the end of the week or month
their wages hadnt been paid into their bank accounts.
Clean get paid or no second clean. I would rather lose the price of a clean than
chase after a messer its not worth the hassle and stress.

[lee_dewing]

Well said John.

Or see how far they'd get going out of the supermarket with their weekly shop and saying casualy to security guard  i'l pay you later/next time/i can't find my purse at the mo

[lee_dewing]

Chris P Bacon.

Just wondered i you could give me a  breakdown on how you deal with this situation.

i.e  leave 1st clean bill
leave 2nd clean bill
text 1 or 2 reminders
send invoice
After there that's where i not sure what to do my next step is thomas higgins letter before action letter £2.20

what happens if they don't pay then, do you have a website link that will help me

Must add i haven't sent invoice to this custy she has had 2 of my bill cards with clean dates and money owed.

Was thinkinking she said paymrnt by end of week, will wait til saturday then send invoice recorded delivery.
And monday organise letter before payment.

Any advice Chris as you seem experienced in this problem (not by choice i bet )

Thanks Lee.

[Carl2009]

I've had a few of these, including one who has been in court and still owes me £236 on an original £70 debt.

Tomorrow i'm sending a Thos Higgins letter for another, following the followng red letter I sent (adapt and use if any use)

"Dear Mrs XXXXX

I write concerning the amount of £24 relating to window cleaning services delivered at XXXXXXX on 13th November and 11th December 2012 and which, at the time of writing, remains outstanding.

In addition to leaving bills on the day of each clean and despite our phone conversation last week I have failed to receive your payment.

For the avoidance of doubt below is a schedule of cleans together with the date payment was received for each, taken from my records:

1st Clean 21st July 2012         Paid: 21st July 2012
18th August 2012                        Paid: 18th August 2012
15th September 2012                        Paid: 13th October 2012
13th October 2012                        Paid: 13th October 2012
13th November    2012         Overdue
11th December 2012                        Overdue

It is with regret that I must write to advise you that should I fail to receive payment of £24 before close of business on Monday 14th January I shall be forced to commence legal proceedings for the recovery of the outstanding debt through the County Court via my solicitor, The Thomas Higgins Partnership.

To avoid action payment should be sent by cheque (payable to Red Dragon Window Cleaning) to the address below. If you have sent payment and it has crossed with this letter please ignore this letter. If you have sent a cheque and it has been cashed please contact both myself and your bank as it may have been cashed fraudulently.

I should also like to take this opportunity to advise you that I will unfortunately no longer be able to provide a window cleaning service to you.

Yours sincerely"

She's the first one i've had that claims I either didn't do the clean or didn't leave a slip. Got very shirty, but happily I was polite 

The fact is that if she doesn't pay I don't think i'll be chasing it. The associated costs are too high for such an amount. Mind you it rankles like hell.

I think the OP was a bit hasty. Texting is never a good way to do things as sensitive as this. I always try and speak with them. You never know what is going on in their lives and (much as we might like to think different) we aren't the most important people they know. BACS xfers can take time. I'd have left it a few days then phoned again. Left it a few days then red lettered them. Then failing that, Thos Higgins. After that, well i'd have to think carefully.

For anyone thinking i'm softly softly ask yourself if it (eventually) went to court and you or your solicitor had to stand there (and it can, believe me) and the judge asks you how the contract terms were formed with regards to payment periods / limits would you be able to explain and demonstrate a) what they are, and b) more importantly that you had proof the custie was both made aware of them and accepted them...

All the best - hope you get your money.

[lee_dewing]

Thanks Carl good letter that.

I agree about the standing in front of the judge bit the more professional you look and if you have paper work, notes even kept a diary of events with the custie in question it must put you in a good light.

Otherwise it turns into a punch and judy show "i paid" "oh no you never"

Good luck too getting your money.

This job would be alright if it weren't for the customers and the rain; oh and the snow!