[chopsie]

Right, I have been going about 11 months now. I have got 174 customers which the first 70-80 maybe more came from me door knocking, then a few from radio ad and paper ad. The rest came from recommendations and seeing me out working and finally quite a few from flyers. I have not activly door knocked since I dont know when, probably April-May time. I know I could easily have had a full round by now if I had door knocked but have not done so as I have had my kids a lot who were not all at school so could only work 3 days sometimes 4 a week, so i let the round build up by itself if you know what i mean.
  Well now my mate who I used to work with is possibly taking voluntary redundancy and we have briefly talked about him coming in partnership with me. I have no idea how this would work tax wise, what the best route van wise would be, i.e 2 man set up or get a trolley. He is keen to introduce pressure washing, Which would be a bonus on wet days.I have never been overly interested in this as i have no idea about resanding etc and i did not want the extra start up expense.
I believe we could motivate each other into really building up a round big enough for both, and include pressure washing for now and really push gutter clearing this autumn especially now 1 can foot a ladder. This would help with cash flow while we build up the round.
Anybody gone down this route? Is it a good/bad idea? What happens if/when we reach the high tax threshold? Is it double as there is two of us? or is it classed as 1 as its 1 company?
Am I running before I can walk? I think we could really motivate each other, But it means a big drop in my already low pay packet!! But we should build this back up.

[james44]

Am I running before I can walk

yes

Is it a good/bad idea

bad

[prestige cleaners]

luckily my sexual partner is my work partner too, so all profits are in house, it has its pros and cons but i would be lost without her.

is it possible you could turn homosexual and keep the profits in house?

[AuRavelling79]

It can be a good if friends can (work!) go into business together. The reality is though most partnerships fail, but the ones that work tend to be very successful.

Actions speak louder than words; you need to look for the signs. If your business partner start to talk about big plans/business etc then only able to continues to operate at a safe level, forget it.   

Interesting, Ewan. Please tell us about your window cleaning business and what you have found successful.

[the bfg]

bad idea mate,    if I were you I would stay as you are as in 11 months you havent done too bad at all,  174 customers is very good indeed.

I have less than 200 and Ive been going over 3 years although a lot of mine are large properties.

when I started I gave myself a 5 year plan and with 18 months to go I feel I'm nearing what I set out to achieve and thats on my own.

each January I have a purge down and get rid of the customers that have given me problems and excuses  which usually amounts to about 10 a year  leaving me with quality customers and then over the course of the year I build on that.


what you should be thinking about next is investing in a gutter vac so you can do gutter cleans on your own and not rely on someone to foot ladders for you.

think about it, if you have 175 after your 1st year  then by the end of the 2nd year you could have in the region of 300  so why share that with someone who hasn't done a thing to promote your business ?

[bobby p]

without committing anything ,id let him do a few days alongside you first. your mate has probably noticed you are ticking along nicely but you dont want him riding along on your coat-tails . make sure at least 2 of those days are KILLERS with a decently high workload .

[kate1]

I would definately air on the side of caution with that.

Your both really need to be 100& committed and aiming for the same goals

[cozy]

Chopsie, where is a real advantage to 2 people working 1 business? Apart from 1 of you footing a ladder for gutters, none. Friendship tends to disappear when money is involved mate. The only advantage for these sort of partnerships is perhaps when both of you have a business to start with, i.e. you windows, him, presure washing etc.
What if he has no business savi and tries to send you both down the wrong path with new ideas that can't work etc?
I wouldn't do it mate,  but good luck.

By the way, only take advice from people who actually HAVE a business. Not people who just like to post in forums or who work for other people.

[dazmond]

absolutely 100 % NO!!


its early days in your business and you have done ok in 11 months but to be quite frank if you think you need someone else to give you the motivation to get more work then your going about it the wrong way!


i think you should give him a wide berth when it comes to your business and just concentrate on building up your round on your own and go and knock some doors.

trust me chopsie the chances are it will end DISASTROUSLY!



regards


dazmond

[cozy]

It can be a good if friends can (work!) go into business together. The reality is though most partnerships fail, but the ones that work tend to be very successful.

Actions speak louder than words; you need to look for the signs. If your business partner start to talk about big plans/business etc then only able to continues to operate at a safe level, forget it.   

Interesting, Ewan. Please tell us about your window cleaning business and what you have found successful.

It is interesting mike; window cleaning is no different to any other business and should be treated as such if you’re going to take it seriously.

I’m still learning mike, when I started up I wanted and looked for a business partner (didn’t work out) this last year alone people approach me and I have had 3 separate offers to go into/setup a new window cleaning business, one of which is still on the table the other two I have rejected.

Now if I ever offer someone the opportunity to go into business it is done very subtly initially, I approach and way up the individual differently and see what they can actually bring to the table, no hot air allowed, or delusions or ego, arrogance etc, LOL

But you are employed as an office and warehouse worker Ewan, you pretend to be a window cleaner.How can anyone accept advice from someone who has no evidence of knowing what they are talking about? Get out of the way, and let the window cleaners help the window cleaner who needs help and advice about window cleaning.

[Jack Wallace]

I have seen quite a few mates fall out over the years from going into business together,

Ultimately you will have different ideas on how things should be done and then the problems start.

One thing you may want to consider.  Not everyone can clean windows; I have employed guys over the years who "just don’t get it"
No matter how many times you show them they screw it up and you lose customers, if they work for you can let them go. What would you do if he turned out to be useless but now owns HALF your livelihood?

[Nathanael Jones]

While I agree that it is a very bad idea,.. there are ways to make the situation workable if you absolutely feel you must.

1. NOT a partnership. You both should run completely separate businesses, separate books etc etc,.. just work together/sub off each other & help each other out where you feel the need.
2. Separate rounds,... Don't give up any of your custies, but perhaps help him with doorknocking in exchange for him funding new equipment.
3. Separate vans,.. you'll never do double the work with 2 men in the van.

You may think that doing it this way removes any of the benefits you had envisioned,.. but you can still team up for door knocking and big jobs, and it could also provide a big boost in motivation at times when you need someone to kick you into gear.

The other option would be to employ him, but he would have to understand why he's getting only 25% of the take as employing is costly and you'd have to cover all the insurance/equipment/travel/holiday pay etc costs.

[Perfect Windows]

One of the most common business saws is "under no circumstances go into business with a friend".  It can work, but it's very unusual for it to succeed.  In a large percentage of cases, both the relationship and the business will suffer.

My personal experience of starting a courier business with a mate years ago is that neither the friendship nor the business survived.

That said, a friend of ours did buck the trend; he's in a successful business with a pal of his.  What they did, however, was agree to split personal and work life totally.  He says thay have evolved to the point that they can argue violently at work then see each other a couple of hours later for a pint and be mates.  He's very unusual in that respect and I think most people would have trouble doing it.

Vin

[Pristine Clean]

This is an interesting thread / post.

Friends can work together. The business can succeed. There just needs to be some firm rules set in place.

Maybe set up a trial basis where you work together but possibly not as partners. You have worked so hard to get to where you are and you feel its time to expand your operations as you possibly cannot cope with any more workload.

So if that is the case, take him on as an employee. If say after 12 months look at your business plan/projection forecasts and see if you are heading in the right place. If he is a hard worker and not a slacker then maybe offer either a generous wage or some of the profits... depending on how much he invests into the business as a whole.

As for tax purposes have a Ltd company and either put him down as a company secretary and you as director as that is what is required to make a Ltd company.

His wages will then be paid and the profit stays in the company instead of it being split.

When I first started I did all the work. I then built up and have over 40 + employees and over 15 subbies working for us. A friend of mine was out of work, he came on board and has been with us now for about 2 years.

He has brought many good ideas to the table and has also worked very hard and later invested into the company as well.

Before investing he was given a contract, so I wont lose my business that I worked so hard for. All he gets back is his investment and return and a wage.

It so far is working well. The friendship has not suffered at all. Buts thats because we have rules and an understanding and most importantly a contract.

With the right people working together to move forward can be very rewarding as long as you are both heading in the same direction.

Dave

 

[kate1]

Thats the key phrase Dave

"heading in the same direction"

[chopsie]

looks like a resounding no then!! i just thought we would help/motivate each other and I would have someone to talk to. I see people on here who work together, with their mrs etc and thought it may be a good idea, maybe I should let him build up a business in whatever he wants i.e pressure washing, gardening, putting fences up etc and have him work with me odd days a week if necessary   Then he is at least self employed and I only got to give him his money and not worry about tax etc, As for employing him or anyone, there is no way I want the hassle of all that . I have said in the past, If I went down  that sort of route then it would be the Ian Lancaster way.

[darren clarke]

is he buying in,  or just going to get half your business for nothing,  nwhat if he decided wc isnt for him

i looked at business partner a few months ago, bloke wanted half my business for nothing,  he didnt/couldnt knock told hime to build, up his business and we will see in a few months,  he lasted 2 cleans in his own business and sold it all,

who would decided that pressure washing was/wasnt going to happen,  who decideds on prices,  etc

[bobby p]

is he buying in,  or just going to get half your business for nothing,  nwhat if he decided wc isnt for him

i looked at business partner a few months ago, bloke wanted half my business for nothing,  he didnt/couldnt knock told hime to build, up his business and we will see in a few months,  he lasted 2 cleans in his own business and sold it all,

who would decided that pressure washing was/wasnt going to happen,  who decideds on prices,  etc

just out of interest,what became of him?

[darren clarke]

he did a few days work for me, and spoke to him the other day he was unemployed  nice lad, just dont think being self employed was for him, 

[chopsie]

Maybe set up a trial basis where you work together but possibly not as partners. You have worked so hard to get to where you are and you feel its time to expand your operations as you possibly cannot cope with any more work

 

Its not really that   grand a plan, i.e too much work and wanting to expand operations. Its just he is going to be out of work, I can see we could potentally work together and build a round up big enough for us both and have a bit of cameraderie (cannot spell that!). He will be more motivated than me really as he is the main earner in his house (by a long way) and I am lucky as my girlfriend is now the main earner as she earns more than I used to! So really and honestly I toss it off more than I should and its as much for my benefit as his as it would mean I would have to get I disagree into gear as he is relying on me. I know I should do it myself, and maybe I will, but sometimes I think it would help

[roundbuilder]

if your 170 houses are all well priced and you can make over 2k from them and  charge your mate 1.5 cleans to join forces with you, it could work without losing out on much money. It will allow you a month n half to not worry about your earnings being halfed and with 2 of you doorknocking to double what you have now could be done with a small effort. The hard part is sticking to a plan. In reality you have only spent 11 months building so far so what have you got to lose. If it fails and he isnt happy give him hes 1.5 of the business back.

[chopsie]

is he buying in,  or just going to get half your business for nothing,  nwhat if he decided wc isnt for him

i looked at business partner a few months ago, bloke wanted half my business for nothing,  he didnt/couldnt knock told hime to build, up his business and we will see in a few months,  he lasted 2 cleans in his own business and sold it all,

who would decided that pressure washing was/wasnt going to happen,  who decideds on prices,  etc

We would have to discuss that, I was thinking he could buy in by buying extra equipment for example, the bits necessary to convert van to two man, and also the pressure washing stuff if thats what he wants. We would decide the pressure washing as that would be how it should work, joint decisions, agree pricing between us etc. Also as a way of a buy in he would be door knocking along side me building up the business.

[andyM]

If it were me I would help him where possible with advice and training but I would not get involved in a partnership. You could still work together by helping one another to increase your customers through canvassing etc and sub-contract work between yourselves when you are busy( as has already been mentioned).
This way you have nothing to lose and you are not putting a friendship in jeopardy.
Do you know if he would even like that type of work? Because if he later finds he doesn't he might then be asking you to buy him out!

[chopsie]

if your 170 houses are all well priced and you can make over 2k from them and  charge your mate 1.5 cleans to join forces with you, it could work without losing out on much money. It will allow you a month n half to not worry about your earnings being halfed and with 2 of you doorknocking to double what you have now could be done with a small effort. The hard part is sticking to a plan. In reality you have only spent 11 months building so far so what have you got to lose. If it fails and he isnt happy give him hes 1.5 of the business back.

Sounds like a plan! Its worth slightly over £1900 for 1 clean. A lot of thought required

[chopsie]

If it were me I would help him where possible with advice and training but I would not get involved in a partnership. You could still work together by helping one another to increase your customers through canvassing etc and sub-contract work between yourselves when you are busy( as has already been mentioned).
This way you have nothing to lose and you are not putting a friendship in jeopardy.
Do you know if he would even like that type of work? Because if he later finds he doesn't he might then be asking you to buy him out!

Thats another idea, and i do not want to be buying him out.

[bad trippy]

in one word chopsie "no"

[chopsie]

dont you work with you mrs trippy?

[Ian101]

Chopsie your numbers are exactly same as mine bar the odd one or two.

Me personally I would not go into partnership as it would mean a massive drop in wages though I can understand your thinking that it will give you more scope to get more customers and add another income stream.

Like me you have put your all into building it so far so it would be very difficult for me to start sharing.

however if you really wanted to go ahead with this you could get him to buy into the business NOT perhaps with cash but with customers ... get him out canvassing (like you had to) and agree a target of say 80 customers over the next month or two then perhaps a partnership could be formed ... this will test his character and also boost the income for the partnership from day 1 ... however he then may choose to go alone with his 80 customers  

[darren clarke]

a lot of the partnerships on here are hubbys and wifes,  which is complete different from business partners,  a lot basically just empoyee the wife and say she is a partner for tax reasons

[chopsie]

thats the sort if thing i was thinking ian 101, he would be buying in with customers (through door knocking) and with equipment

[bad trippy]

dont you work with you mrs trippy?

I do mate but the sex is free 

[KLEENAWAY]

Iv tried the partnership thing with a good mate of mine and that went realy wrong! We are frinds now but just doing our own things and helping each other out. I think you are making things hard for yourself chopsie, you dont "need" a partner so why complicate everything with one. Honestly mate its harder than what you think. Little things like you being faster than him cleaning will get really annoying eventually! If i was you id let him work for you self employed. Just my thoughts pal

Danny

[clearlyclean]

Get your mate out canvassing now to build his own round up and just work the odd day together a week and help each other grow their own rounds.Two men never do twice the work it more like one and half.Before his redundance you look after his customers or work a saturday morning together and if its not for him buy the work off him if it is for him he may have a few customers to build on when he leaves his job.

[chopsie]

bumped up for ernie