[ascjim]

Something has ran from the back of the flashing.

We have tried neat Hypo, but it isn't shifting.

Any ideas?

[nathankaye]

Ive still to get my first house clean, so no experience in this area.
But maybe, as rest is really clean, perhaps carrying some small pots of paint and do a touch up. Customer be non the wiser?
Perhaps

[Kev Martin]

Something has ran from the back of the flashing.

We have tried neat Hypo, but it isn't shifting.

Any ideas?

I would try a heavy duty acidic cleaner personally

[ascjim]

Would the render be ok with acid? I would love to paint it but matching the colour would be a pain

[chris scott]

Tannin or Rust….Get pinky stinky of Kelvin Martian.

[Kev Martin]

Tannin or Rust….Get pinky stinky of Kelvin Martian.
[/quote

Shuddup the Pinky Stinky consignment hasn't arrived you twerp

[Aqua Power Solutions]

Get some Owltrol Netrol This contains already mixed Oxalic acid . If this is a rust stain it should remove it
Do a test patch !
Ed 

[Smurf]

Tannin or Rust….Get pinky stinky of Kelvin Martian.

 now that made me chuckle chris 

[Smurf]

Something has ran from the back of the flashing.

We have tried neat Hypo, but it isn't shifting.

Any ideas?

So I take it that happen after you used hypo to clean the render walls on that house?

[ascjim]

Yeah that's right.

Maybe a steam cleaner will get it off?

[ascjim]

Surely this it like a Doff?

http://www.hss.com/hire/p/steam-cleaner-osprey

[Mike Halliday]

That stain is the colour of bitumen,

Is it lead flashing or Flashband ( an adhesive bitumen tape often used instead of lead)?

If it's Flashband then that might be a bitumen stain which would need a solvent to dissolve it

Or they might have used a bitumen paint to give an added waterproof layer behind the flashing,

[BDCS]

My guess would be leaking lead flash with galvo steel soakers. Oxalic.

[premier window cleaners]

Surely this it like a Doff?

http://www.hss.com/hire/p/steam-cleaner-osprey

Its nothing like a Doff, no where near as good

[ascjim]

I'm hoping it will get it off. 150 degrees like the Doff so fingers crossed

[chris scott]

Cedar Shingles or Rosemarys  ?

[BDCS]

I did some work for the blokes doing some refurb on some gaf near me this week - 15th century !

http://www.canterbury-cathedral.org/2016/03/21/work-on-the-great-south-window-continues/

Not a dof in sight - interesting poultice receipe though

[Kev Martin]

I did some work for the blokes doing some refurb on some gaf near me this week - 15th century !

http://www.canterbury-cathedral.org/2016/03/21/work-on-the-great-south-window-continues/

Not a dof in sight - interesting poultice receipe though

Karl

Why was it  interesting

Kev

[ascjim]

Going to try and steam it off on Monday.

Also had reports of plants starting to die in the area! And sticky window sills after they have been cleaned.

What a cock up!

[BDCS]

I did some work for the blokes doing some refurb on some gaf near me this week - 15th century !

http://www.canterbury-cathedral.org/2016/03/21/work-on-the-great-south-window-continues/

Not a dof in sight - interesting poultice receipe though

Karl

Why was it  interesting

Kevin,

I was at the stone mason workshop  at Canterbury Cathedral and they were made the poultice out of some stone dust and ground paper which they mixed up into a paste and wrapped in cling film. Not a dof in sight. They are auctioning the old bits of the great South window so if you want a piece of 15th century history then get your bids in. I was in a rush but I'll go in and have a chat with the boss when I go into Canterbury and I have time spare.

[chris scott]

Going to try and steam it off on Monday.

Also had reports of plants starting to die in the area! And sticky window sills after they have been cleaned.

What a cock up!

Stick to window cleaning ?  Whats the porch roof made of  ?

[Smurf]

Get some Owltrol Netrol This contains already mixed Oxalic acid . If this is a rust stain it should remove it
Do a test patch !
Ed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2_RrLTGeBY
Hi Ed, have you tried nitrol before on k-rend and painted render? If so does it have any detrimental effect of the surface or any stained fake wood tudor planking on the walls that the chem may get on?

Reason why I ask is that the render walls on a customer of mine the bolts that hold the wood in place seems to be causing rust stains on the render that the chap would like removed.

[Smurf]

This product F9 Barc looks awsome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x96YA4chx2M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuPnzdLjNuI

[Aqua Power Solutions]

Smurf, not used Netrol on render but more so on wood , The key ingredient is the oxalic acid . This will brighten up fences , decks  etc
But also used for rust removal .
F9 to my knowledge is not available here only America . Kev Martin I believe has a similar product or more knowledge on this product
Ed

[Smurf]

Thanks Ed,

Looking back on old posts f9 barc was mentioned back in 2015 which is a real pity not one supplier decided to import it from the states to start selling it over here as would sell very well I'm thinking.

[BDCS]

If your that confident it will sell then import it and make a fortune off the rest of us

[Smurf]

Kev is obviously not interested but I'm sure the likes of Benz or Mr Cleaver Wash would be if there was good money to be had.

[Kev Martin]

Kev is obviously not interested but I'm sure the likes of Benz or Mr Cleaver Wash would be if there was good money to be had.

I have a better product here in the UK.  It is made in two different consistencies the  second one is much more viscous and made for walls so it sticks.  Moreover, it is pH Neutral so there!!!  I am very interested but "Rome wasn't built in a day"

I am happy to send out "Free Of Charge" small sample  as long as whoever wants to try it either collects it,  adds it to an existing order from us or covers the postage costs

[Smurf]

Kev is obviously not interested but I'm sure the likes of Benz or Mr Cleaver Wash would be if there was good money to be had.

I have a better product here in the UK.  It is made in two different consistencies the  second one is much more viscous and made for walls so it sticks.  Moreover, it is pH Neutral so there!!!  I am very interested but "Rome wasn't built in a day"

I am happy to send small samples out  as long as whoever wants to try it either collects it or adds it to an existing order from us or covers the postage

Going by the blurb on the f9 site it took 10 years to get the formulation right so indeed "rome wasn't built in a day" kev.
Why try to re-invent the wheel when someone has already developed so say the best rust remover in the world already.

[Kev Martin]

Because ours is better and less expensive

[chris scott]

Try and get a Data sheet for the Barf F9…..

[Smurf]

Because ours is better and less expensive

OK if you say so Kev....prove it on that render cockup 

[Smurf]

Something has ran from the back of the flashing.

We have tried neat Hypo, but it isn't shifting.

Any ideas?

I would try a heavy duty acidic cleaner personally

Is that ph nutral then too  kev

[Smurf]

Try and get a Data sheet for the Barf F9…..

Can't find one for barf 9  chris but have found this which makes good reading   
http://www.jracenstein.com/docs/sds_Front9-BARC.pdf

[Kev Martin]

Something has ran from the back of the flashing.

We have tried neat Hypo, but it isn't shifting.

Any ideas?

I would try a heavy duty acidic cleaner personally

Is that ph nutral then too  kev

Nope, it's acidic but based on my experience Miracle Heavy Duty Acidic Cleaner will probably sort it.  Also the new cleaner wasn't available on the 20th July so although testing was complete the product hadn't arrived.  But even now I still think HDAC will sort it.  The new stuff is totally different but it is pH neutral and designed for this task amongst others.  I think your better sticking with Hypo and Lidl though in cheap and cheerful land and leave the complicated stuff to the specialists.

[chris scott]

Ammonium Hydrogen Diflouride, Phosphoric Acid, Water, Trade secret ingredients
Barf9 is  acid .

[Kev Martin]

Ammonium Hydrogen Diflouride, Phosphoric Acid, Water, Trade secret ingredients
Barf9 is  acid .

Don't tell him you twit

[Smurf]

I'm in no rush so I will wait until it's on special at lidl or aldi 

[Smurf]

Ammonium Hydrogen Diflouride, Phosphoric Acid, Water, Trade secret ingredients
Barf9 is  acid .

Don't tell him you twit

Believe it or not I can read a ph scale... 
At ph of 3.4 it’s not exactly a strong acid is it now.

[Smurf]

This made me chuckle ...dingy pavers my arse as obviously they have no idea what we have to try cleaning 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2iRFSiAiO8

[Kev Martin]

Ammonium Hydrogen Diflouride, Phosphoric Acid, Water, Trade secret ingredients
Barf9 is  acid .

Don't tell him you twit

Believe it or not I can read a ph scale... 
At ph of 3.4 it’s not exactly a strong acid is it now.

Actually you are completely wrong!!!   Any acid with a pH below 3.5 is known as an Ultra Acid.  Acid with a pH of 5.4 is strong enough to screw stone up and that is a 100 times weaker.  I went to a house once to restore their Marble.  We spent 5 days grinding and polishing it to perfection.  We went back in the following morning to seal it and get the job signed off for payment to find the whole floor wrecked with acid etching everywhere.  They tried blaming us telling us we had probably screwed up in the final polishing process.  I examined the floor scratching my head trying to determine how there were hundreds of acid etch marks all over the floor then lo and behold their 15 month old daughter came flying in to the empty room in a baby walker burbling and gurgling flicking diluted orange squash everywhere from some sort of feeder cup.  That child had inadvertently caused nearly Ł3K worth of damage in less than an hour with a cup of weak diluted orange cordial and wrecked the whole floor and a weeks hard work.

[chris scott]

"Believe it or not I can read a ph scale... 
At ph of 3.4 it’s not exactly a strong acid is it now. "……obviously not .

The pH scale is logarithmic and as a result, each whole pH value below 7 is ten times more acidic than the next higher value. For example, pH 4 is ten times more acidic than pH 5 and 100 times (10 times 10) more acidic than pH 6. The same holds true for pH values above 7, each of which is ten times more alkaline (another way to say basic) than the next lower whole value. For example, pH 10 is ten times more alkaline than pH 9 and 100 times (10 times 10) more alkaline than pH 8.

Generally we find (within our trade) rust staining on walls (render, weber, brick work) and patio's ( sandstone, concrete and a variety of lime stones). I would be 5hitting myself useing an acid like  Barf f9 on any of these….but as always the Americans have the answer .

[chris scott]

Shingles or Rosemary's?

[Smurf]

"Believe it or not I can read a ph scale... 
At ph of 3.4 it’s not exactly a strong acid is it now. "……obviously not .

The pH scale is logarithmic and as a result, each whole pH value below 7 is ten times more acidic than the next higher value. For example, pH 4 is ten times more acidic than pH 5 and 100 times (10 times 10) more acidic than pH 6. The same holds true for pH values above 7, each of which is ten times more alkaline (another way to say basic) than the next lower whole value. For example, pH 10 is ten times more alkaline than pH 9 and 100 times (10 times 10) more alkaline than pH 8.

Generally we find (within our trade) rust staining on walls (render, weber, brick work) and patio's ( sandstone, concrete and a variety of lime stones). I would be 5hitting myself useing an acid like  Barf f9 on any of these….but as always the Americans have the answer .

Vinegar has a ph value of 2.2 which going by what you say is a stronger acid than barf so how do you work that one out then chris?

[Kev Martin]

"Believe it or not I can read a ph scale... 
At ph of 3.4 it’s not exactly a strong acid is it now. "……obviously not .

The pH scale is logarithmic and as a result, each whole pH value below 7 is ten times more acidic than the next higher value. For example, pH 4 is ten times more acidic than pH 5 and 100 times (10 times 10) more acidic than pH 6. The same holds true for pH values above 7, each of which is ten times more alkaline (another way to say basic) than the next lower whole value. For example, pH 10 is ten times more alkaline than pH 9 and 100 times (10 times 10) more alkaline than pH 8.

Generally we find (within our trade) rust staining on walls (render, weber, brick work) and patio's ( sandstone, concrete and a variety of lime stones). I would be 5hitting myself useing an acid like  Barf f9 on any of these….but as always the Americans have the answer .

Vinegar has a ph value of 2.2 which going by what you say is a stronger acid than barf so how do you work that one out then chris?

Vinegar is a different acid it is Acetic and yes it is stronger but so is Lemon Juice.  That's why I posted the example above of the child with the Diluted Cordial.  Acid does not need to be strong to do damage.  Both the Barf and  Vinegar are both classed as Ultra Acids they are both below 3.5 on the pH Scale

[Smurf]

If that is the case if it was so dangerous to use why is it still being sold to the trade and even sold in the likes of lowes & home depot for home owners to use themselves. 

I'm sure this reputable company would not be stocking it either if it was so hazardous to use http://www.jracenstein.com/item/320%2D615/rust-remover-f9-b-a-r-c-gallon/

Yes we all now it's an acidic product as you yourself kev have been recommending and selling the original miracle sealer hdac product for years.

[Mike Halliday]

Just to confuse things further

Acid does not exist nether does alkali it's like fast or slow.... Or heavy or light.

 Ph is a unit of measure just like  MPH or Kg it has no ability to damage anything just like if I said I was hurt by 13st 5lbs..... it's not a physical entity it is a measurement. if something damages a surface it's the product that damaged the surface,

Ultra acid who made that term  up? It's not a measurement used in the scientific community.

Ph it's self is not an indicator of how damaging or strong a products is, I use an acid at Ph1 on 100% wool and delicate fabrics with perfect safety were  most damage done in the cleaning of fabrics & carpets is done by using too strong an alkali based solution.

[Smurf]

In laymans terms I just want a rust remover product that is tried and tested, easy to apply, works quickly and is safe to use on a variety of substrates without all the messing about with scrubbing, using pastes etc. That is why I like the look of f9 barc myself.
 

[Smurf]

Going to try and steam it off on Monday.

Also had reports of plants starting to die in the area! And sticky window sills after they have been cleaned.

What a cock up!

How did you get on James?

[ascjim]

It did come off, but made a mess of underneath.

The hypo also stained the front door and killed some plants. Easier to get the insurance company involved now. It's out of my hair

[chris scott]

It did come off, but made a mess of underneath.

The hypo also stained the front door and killed some plants. Easier to get the insurance company involved now. It's out of my hair

So us reputable contractors can then pay long term for amateurs  who think it is easy

[Kev Martin]

If that is the case if it was so dangerous to use why is it still being sold to the trade and even sold in the likes of lowes & home depot for home owners to use themselves. 

I'm sure this reputable company would not be stocking it either if it was so hazardous to use http://www.jracenstein.com/item/320%2D615/rust-remover-f9-b-a-r-c-gallon/

Yes we all now it's an acidic product as you yourself kev have been recommending and selling the original miracle sealer hdac product for years.

Smurf

You are missing the whole point of my post.  I was explaining / clarifying  the damage that some acids cause full stop!  Miracle HDAC is a buffered acid and yes it can do damage used in the wrong situation.  The post however, was pointing out your misconception  that because it was only 3.5 on the pH scale you thought it was harmless.  The point is I don't mind what you think about Miracle Products because at the end of the day your not going to use them anyway but don't knock something you have not tried either and ultimately  your not going to use Barca either unless Lidl start selling it.

[Kev Martin]

It did come off, but made a mess of underneath.

The hypo also stained the front door and killed some plants. Easier to get the insurance company involved now. It's out of my hair

James

You asked for advice then did your own thing anyway!

[Kev Martin]

Just to confuse things further

Acid does not exist nether does alkali it's like fast or slow.... Or heavy or light.

 Ph is a unit of measure just like  MPH or Kg it has no ability to damage anything just like if I said I was hurt by 13st 5lbs..... it's not a physical entity it is a measurement. if something damages a surface it's the product that damaged the surface,

Ultra acid who made that term  up? It's not a measurement used in the scientific community.

Ph it's self is not an indicator of how damaging or strong a products is, I use an acid at Ph1 on 100% wool and delicate fabrics with perfect safety were  most damage done in the cleaning of fabrics & carpets is done by using too strong an alkali based solution.

    Confused I Am