[domestic bliss]

I have been asked to clean a 8 bedroom hotel just the rooms  plus the corridor.
9am-1pm twice in the week and 10-2 on the sat and sunday.
I am going tonight to quote and i have no idea what to charge.
Please please help me

[CMS]

I'd charge £180 per week

10 hours X £10 per hour

plus

4 hours X £20 per hour

[AJCleaningServices]

I'd charge £180 per week

10 hours X £10 per hour

plus

4 hours X £20 per hour

As I understood,  domestic bliss speaks about 16 hrs per week..

[AJCleaningServices]

I'd charge £200 per week

8 hours X £9 per hour

plus

4 hours X £13 per hour

plus

4 hours X £18 per hour

plus

£4 to make it £200 

[AJCleaningServices]

...9am-1pm twice in the week and 10-2 on the sat and sunday...

A little bit confusing about hours…
Do you mean:
From 9am to 1pm twice a week, between Monday and Friday
plus from 10am to 2pm on Saturday
plus from 10am to 2pm on Sunday?

[domestic bliss]

yes 9-2 any 2 days between mon to fri and then 10-2 saturday and sunday

[AJCleaningServices]

Between Monday and Friday we charge our normal hourly rate, which is £9-00, for Saturdays we add 50%. For Sundays we add 100%

[CMS]

I'd charge £180 per week

10 hours X £10 per hour

plus

4 hours X £20 per hour

As I understood,  domestic bliss speaks about 16 hrs per week..

I beg your pardon, so she does. Then I'd charge.....................

12 hours X £10

plus

4 hours X £20

= £200 per week

(it's been a log day..............lol) 

[CMS]

Between Monday and Friday we charge our normal hourly rate, which is £9-00, for Saturdays we add 50%. For Sundays we add 100%

I can't understand how you can charge £9 per hour.

You must be paying minimum wage for that.

[AJCleaningServices]

Between Monday and Friday we charge our normal hourly rate, which is £9-00, for Saturdays we add 50%. For Sundays we add 100%

I can't understand how you can charge £9 per hour.

You must be paying minimum wage for that.

Here, in Newcastle, cleaners normally get £5.05 per hour. 

Yesterday I received an e-mail from “Nicola” where she asked me about my charges, today I saw “Nicola’s” advert on a shop window where I advertise, she charges £7.50 per hour and £9.00 for one-offs.  It may be coincidence, never the less, there were three Mrs Mop’s ads who would charge even less, so competition is tough.

[Fox]

Well just to be different   I would charge £175.00 especially if you want the work!

That works out as follows

8hrs @ wages of £6 per hour x 70%

wk/end 8hrs @ wages of £7 per hour x 70%

(actually comes out at £176.80)

Hope this helps

Fox

[CMS]

Well just to be different   I would charge £175.00 especially if you want the work!

I think everyone wants the work, but at what cost?

I can't see how you can have margins as tight as that unless it's a much bigger job.

How do you afford the supervision?

[Fox]

On average that is £11 per hour, not that tight, your average would be £12.50!.  Depends on the job really, I do some jobs for as little as £9.20 per hour and others for £20 per hour. 

I am looking to make a decent profit across the board and would be more happy to do the job mentioned with those hours at the price I have stated, the only other factor that I would have to consider regards to price is location.

Fox

[Fox]

Whoops missed your last bit.  I pay an area supervisor a wage to do a job any work that comes in fits in, no problem when it's such a small one!  If it was a big job a working site supervisor would get put on site.

I would also push janitorial and ancilliary, the supervision comes in with change of airfresh etc and deliveries.

Right am off home now, just a short one today! Catch you later.

Fox

[AJCleaningServices]

Interesting discussion,
domestic bliss, could you tell us how much you are going to quote?

[CMS]

On average that is £11 per hour, not that tight, your average would be £12.50!. 

That difference is £24 per week or £1248 per annum!

How do you cost in materials, equipment depreciation etc.

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, just curious about how you can make a profit.

I know this much................that each contract should be costed so that it can 'stand alone' and shouldn't be supported by Janitorial sales.

I suppose, thinking about it, we're in the industry for different reasons. I'm not in it for the income. Over the years I have built (profitable) turnover with a view to selling it.

I plan to retire in about five years and sell the company. The lower the wage percentage is, the more the company will be worth.

A company's capital worth is far more important to me than its short term income.

[Fox]

lol - Now we are talking!

When I price I price on contracts to 'stand alone' - without ancillary and janitorial - if I get it great, if not fine, (I was refering to supervision and janitorial delivery above not as part of the essential contract).  Having said that I also quote bearing in mind overall running costs, therefore I can cost slightly less as my Company has a high turnover and to run a contract like that mentioned would not increase any overheads other than the basic wages and the small cost of materials.  (before it's asked yes I have quoted like that from the beginning as I knew I was going to build a reasonable sized business).

I do have a basic costing sheet, much like anyone else in this industry would have and work on employers NI, P&EL, plant & machinery, materials, uniform etc and the results are based on the wages and hours required for the clean.

Yes we are all in it for different reasons, mine are not far off yours but I expect to be in it on a longer term than you and take a decent income along the way!

Fox

[AJCleaningServices]

....Right am off home now, just a short one today! Catch you later.

Fox

lol - Now we are talking!...

  I thought you were on your way home, LOL 
Just kidding!

[Fox]

He he - guess what - I'm home! lol - I only live about 5min drive from the office! 

 

[CMS]

I can cost slightly less as my Company has a high turnover

I was just looking at your 'tagline' below your avatar...............

Don't the two comments contradict each other?

[D woods]

Hi Fox and CMS
What percentage of quotations you put forward do you win ?

[CMS]

I used to convert 50% but in the past two years it's fallen a little. Perhaps two out of five now.

[Fox]

CMS - That is where you are wrong - the profit is the same or higher based on the overheads and the overheads cover more because the turnover is higher - oh I do love the 'profit is sanity' bit (although I think I lost mine a long time ago  ) so it would only be a contridiction to the saying if I had a high turnover and my profit margin was say 5%!

D woods - I expect to be successful in 3 out of every 5 quotes I actually put in, it is getting through the door to do the quotes that is the difficult one!

[CMS]

I don't always quote, of course..............

Before I quote the Client has to agree to this concept.

(Taken from our web site)


Our Pricing Policy

"It is unwise to pay too much, but it is worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing that you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it cannot be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder it is well to add something for the risk you run. If you do that, you will have enough money to pay for something better"..........John Ruskin 1819 - 1900

In the highly competitive world of Contract Cleaning it is tempting for a supplier to offer you a 'loaded' cleaning specification for very little charge. The service will normally start well and will deteriorate after a few months as the supplier looks for ways to make savings. There are two ways that a company like this can succeed..........they can either ask their staff to do some of the work for nothing, or they can miss a few things out and hope that you don't notice.       

Which do you think they will do?

We never take this approach. We take the view that every cleaning operation has a time value attached to it and therefore must contain an element of cost. As long as you agree with this concept we can design a cleaning service to fit your budget and the service will remain constant throughout the period of the contract.

[Fox]

Well said CMS - I couldn't agree more with your last couple of paragraphs.  I always ask at a quotation if the client is looking for best value or lowest cost!

[AJCleaningServices]

Interesting discussion,
domestic bliss, could you tell us how much you are going to quote?

[CMS]

Well said CMS - I couldn't agree more with your last couple of paragraphs.  I always ask at a quotation if the client is looking for best value or lowest cost!

Once they have agreed with the concept and STILL want to save money, I ask them directly..........

"What do you want to leave out?"

[D woods]

Hi CMS and Fox
You both have a very high strike rate, especially at the hourly charge's you
both put in.

Do you have this strike rate on big contracts (ten cleaners or more) or is it more on small one cleaner contracts ?

[CMS]

I do have that conversion rate on larger contracts but that's mainly because I'm particular about what I quote.

It's fair to say that there are folks who collect quotes as a hobby.

I won't quote unless I'm SURE they want to change and even more certain that we're in with a chance.

Lots of groundwork before we agree to quote.

[D woods]

A problem we have a lot of the time is that the person showing you round the
building (usually the office junior) is not the decision maker.

Do you have a technique for dealing with this situation ?

[CMS]

Yes, I wouldn't do it.

What often happens though is that I would have a meeting with the decision maker to ascertain that he wanted change and that he agreed with the 'concept'. Then we would probably be shown around by a 'junior' and I would return for a further chat with the decision maker.

I often return the quote by hand and discuss it with the decision maker, sometimes even getting a decision there and then.

I could spend all day (and have done so) traipsing round buildings with someone who hasn't got any say.

I wouldn't enter into the scenario that you suggested.

In my opinion every bit of selling time must be productive.

[CMS]

I have always kept detailed records of every sale and it makes interesting reading/analysis.

For instance, 70% of the acceptances I have had have been obtained on either the first or second follow up telephone call. The other 30% of the acceptances have been obtained on the 3rd, 4th or even 5th follow up call.

So.............what did I do about it?

I stopped making that 3rd, 4th or 5th follow up call and spent my time looking for NEW business.

Result - the conversion rate went up!

[D woods]

Hi CMS
You may not want to answer this , what do you find the most cost effective
method for obtaining quality leads?

[Fox]

Hi D woods

The strike rate on larger contracts (10 or more) are lower yes, the size of contract we are most successful with are between 3 and 6 cleaners. 

Unlike CMS I am not too bothered who shows me around the building, I will already have the name of the decision maker (and obviously would prefer it to be him or her) and would always insist on a meeting with them at the time of survey.

I believe our success rate is due to the type of contract we quote for - usually the size stated above but more importantly they have, 9 times out of 10 times, already got a national contractor in and are unhappy.  When selling you have to have good body language skills, be enthusiastic and knowledgable about what you do and show you are sincere.  Many of the clients we clean for have told me that our price is slightly higher than the competition but not out of the market and they chose us because of presentation.  They also liked the idea of having the person who does the selling for liasion throughout the contract period.

Domestic bliss - How did the quote go?

Fox

[Ian Gourlay]

I use this section as a learning experience, in case I ever wanted to enter this section of the industry,

So how do we know the job is going to take as long as stated.

If it takes longer could be on a looser.

I thought you used a square foot calculation to work out time.?

[CMS]

Hi CMS
You may not want to answer this , what do you find the most cost effective
method for obtaining quality leads?

Get out there - on foot!

[CMS]

I use this section as a learning experience, in case I ever wanted to enter this section of the industry,

So how do we know the job is going to take as long as stated.

If it takes longer could be on a looser.

I thought you used a square foot calculation to work out time.?

Years of experience for a start.

It's not always possible to use a square foot calculator. Imagine a two storey office.................

Ground floor - busy call centre, one person sitting every 4 feet! Hundreds of desks.

First floor - MD's office, meeting rooms, board room.

Buth have the same area so would they take the same time to clean?

[Fox]

Ian - I 'eyeball' the site and listen to the client to decide on hours etc. 
As CMS says though this does take experience to get it right.  Think about
how long it would take if you had to clean somewhere - then add some!

You also get a good idea from the number of hours the current cleaners are
putting in and whether the building is clean or not!

Fox

[domestic bliss]

 Crikey i started something now,cms and fox
I am going to quote about £200 but i don't think they will pay it.
They said they have trouble keeping people because they have such high standards which is understandable but not if you are only paying the minimum wage.
I also think i will have trouble getting anyone to do the weekends round here as no one wants to work at weekends everybodys having problems.  Due to my hobby i am never here either at weekends either so i couldn't do it myself

[CMS]

We've done a lot of hotels (used to have the Holiday Inn Express at Dartford).

On the larger ones (50 rooms plus) it is very difficult to estimate the hours as you can't estimate the occupancy. Also some will require beds to be made, others will require beds to be changed. On average though it's 20 mins per room/bathroom).

The way we quoted was like this................

Imagine a 100 bed hotel. Along with the manager we 'guestimated' that it would have 80% occupancy i.e. 80 rooms full at any time. We then allowed 20 mins per room i.e. 27 hours.

We then had to keep accurate records and clean all occupied rooms whether there was 50 or 100.

Invoices were constant throughout the year but we invoiced extra or gave a credit every quarter to take account of adjustments.

[D woods]

Hi CMS
I read your old post fom last year,  on how you get new contracts ( thats probably the best post I have ever read by anyone )

Is that the only method you use for obtaining leads ?

Hi Fox
Do you use the same method for obtaining leads ?

[CMS]

It is now...................

I made some horrendous mistakes in the early days. Drove miles to quote after making the appointment by phone, only to find that it was a piddly little building miles from any housing.

The best way to get a foot in the door is literally to 'get a foot in the door'.

When you're walking along a street/through an industrial estate and you see a building that you'd like to clean, you go in. If you don't want to clean it you walk past - simple!

[CMS]

Hi CMS
I read your old post fom last year,  on how you get new contracts ( thats probably the best post I have ever read by anyone )

For the benefit of others, was it this one?

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6835.0

[D woods]

Hi CMS
Yes it was that one . Have you ever used a sales person/ canvesser to do this
for you, or do you always do it yourself ?

[Fox]

I employ someone on an ad hock basis to do cold calling but don't particularly like that method of selling (not saying it doesn't work though).

I also use direct mail shots and telesales.

Personally I hate generating leads so I do farm that bit out and then attend the surveys myself.  I will do some marketing though when time allows just to keep my hand in so to speak!

I know my area very well indeed and have a pretty clear image of which industrial estates and buildings we should go for.  Every now and again I will get in the car and do a good scout for buildings/estates going up etc.

The other way I seem to get a fair bit of work in is through other sales people, for instance I have just landed a contract because the person I buy my stationary off (big well known company) gave my cards out when she was visiting her current customers!  I have a couple of sales people who I purchase from who give me good leads.

[D woods]

My company currently spends over £115,000 on sales and marketing,
and I am not happy with the results we are getting.

Fox and CMS seem to be getting better results than me for a much smaller
outlay.

[AJCleaningServices]

My company currently spends over £115,000 on sales and marketing...

D Woods,
My turnover is smaller than you spend on promoting your business.  However I can say that do not spend more than 5% of my turnover on advertisements.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not sure if my question is appropriate, but I would like to ask what is the maximum percentage of your (whoever wish to answer) turnover you would prepare to spend on promotion of your business?

Kind regards,
Arthur

[CMS]

That is hard to define. What would you call promoting your business?

Advertising?
Printing?
Sales staff?
Telesales staff?
Salesmens petrol?
Telephone bill?

Where does the 'promoting' stop and the normal overheads begin?

[D woods]

Yell.com / Yellow pages £40,000
Full time sales person plus car £50,000
Mailshot 2000 per month £10,000
2 Part time telesales Girls £10,000
Promotional literature £5000

[AJCleaningServices]

As I said the size of my business is no were near yours, however let me just say, to be more specific, I do not do cold calls, I do not employee sales staff.  My expenditure on promotion is basically what I pay for ad in parish magazines, my website, my yell.com ad and ad coming up in the Yell Book this summer.

I suppose that bigger turnover requires bigger (in percentage terms) expenditure on promotion.

Karl, thanks for your replay, I am just curios.

Kind regards,
Arthur

[AJCleaningServices]

D Woods, thanks for your replay,
Kind regards,
Arthur

[Fox]

D woods

If you are spending that amount on your sales and you are still not happy then you should be analysing why (which I am sure you are).  This time of year is not exactly a quiet one for contract cleaners either!

The amount you are spending on mailshots seems steep, what sort of response are you getting from these?  I am asuming your sales staff are following these up.

Do you do any of your site surveys or are you relying on your full time sales person?  Is that person just employed for sales or do you expect him/her to look after the account once won?

Alot of questions i know, but ones that should be looked at if you are unhappy with results.

Fox

[D woods]

Hi Fox
MY company is different from most in that we only clean windows
no daily office cleaning.

The main problem we face is getting the client to split the windows from
the office cleaning .

The mailshots go out every month and are then followed up by the telesales
staff.

Site surveys are carried out by my brother myself and our sales person
we each do 3 to 5 quotes a week.

[lyn taylor]

Hi  I would charge 10.00 per hour, then look at other work in the place  i.e.  Kitchen clean, carpets, outside work,  could become a nice little earner, but because of wanting the work, you could lose sight of additional work.........................which is understandable with the climate of the trade at the moment............but think about what you could gain from the contract........and good luck : :

[garyj]

Mailshot 2000 per month £10,000

Thats  24,000 per year @ £10,000, thats about 40p each, what do you send them a book?

I know carpet cleaners that are umming and aarring over spending £200 for a couple of thousand leaflets and £20 per thousand delivered.

[D woods]

Hi Gary
40 pence each is 30 pence for pre-paid A5 envelope and 10 pence for
glossy insert

[AJCleaningServices]

Hi  I would charge 10.00 per hour...

I have suggested even less - £9.00 per hour, however, it is the work during the weekend what makes this job less desirable, as the result my quote for the week would be £200.00. 

domestic bliss is saying that weekend jobs cause more problem than profit:

…I also think i will have trouble getting anyone to do the weekends round here as no one wants to work at weekends...

If for whatever reason I do not like a job, my quote would be such that my staff would be willing to get it done with pleasure