Trafic/Vivaro/Primastar gearboxes - prior to 55 plate
« on: December 15, 2009, 05:16:50 pm »
I will now post the gist of a conversation I had with one of my customers recently.  He states that he would like to be put in contact with people who may have had problems with the above gearboxes.  If you are prepared to let me know some contact details I will pass them on.

OK then.  I was doing a job for a customer a week or so back when he asked me if I had ever had major problems with my Trafic van.  I told him that the gearbox had needed replacing some time before and that it was a common problem.  I had the gearbox replaced FOC as it was still under warranty - just.  It did cost me some van hire money and some inconvenience.  Mine is an '03 plate.  He then told me that his '04 plate gearbox had let him down a few months before.  Now although this customer has a building company and fingers in several pies, he is actually a qualified mechanic.  He had his Trafic gearbox removed and an independent report made on it which he showed me.  The report stated that the problem with the box is a design flaw (I think we already knew that).  However, it's nothing to do with cogs or teeth.  I'm no mechanic so bear with me on this.  Apparently, the reason why so many of these boxes fail is because they are not properly sealed at thew point where some rod or cable enters them.  Instead of a proper, normal seal, all there is is some O ring.  This is letting water into the box and causing corrosion near the entry point.  The water that would get in is mainly from the road surface - including all that corrosive salt in winter.
He attempted to get just the relevant parts from Renault.  They said they didn't sell them.  After asking around he discovered that the bits were available.  So instead of forking out 3 grand for a new box, it cost him about one grand in the end.  The corrosion causes a particular bearing to corrode making the surface rough.  This is what causes the problem.
Renault/Vauxhall and Nissan haven't been particularly forthcoming about this issue.
My customer wants to hear from people who have had this problem and also would like to know what fix was offered (they usually replace the box en bloc).  He was able to take his time and get this matter investigated properly by a gearbox specialist because, unlike most of us, he wasn't in a huge hurry to get his van running (he has others).
I am wondering if there is a case here for the TV programme "Watchdog".  I feel that there is certainly good cause for amnyoone who has had this issue to claim a partial refund if their gearbox has failed at low mileage.  Mine failed at 39,000 miles - about a month inside the warranty period.  The van is now coming up to 80,000 miles so I'm wondering if it's due to happen again in the near future.  If someone has had an early failure, I reckon that the starting point should be a refund of  £1,500.  Of course they won't settle and would need to be forced into it.  I'm pretty sure it won't happen but consumer rights have improved in recent years with the advent of internet communication.

My customer actually showed me the old parts that were removed from his previous gearbox and it wasn't a pretty sight.

Window Washers

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Re: Trafic/Vivaro/Primastar gearboxes - prior to 55 plate
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2009, 07:17:04 pm »
now if that was citreon relay engines, I would be right on it, cost me ££££'s this year :(
If your not willing to learn, No one can help you, If you are determined to learn, No one can stop you ;)

Mike_G

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Re: Trafic/Vivaro/Primastar gearboxes - prior to 55 plate
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2009, 08:31:14 pm »
Why do you ask for pre 55 did they fix the problem from 55 onwards? A friend of mine works for vauxhall and he thinks 05 onwards should be ok but I spoke to one of  the mechanics there and he said he wouldn't buy one on any plate unless it had a long warranty

Spruce

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Re: Trafic/Vivaro/Primastar gearboxes - prior to 55 plate
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2009, 09:29:56 pm »
Sorry not totally related to your suggestion but..........

I am aware that early (prior to Y plate) Citroen Relays, Fiat Ducatos and Peugeot Boxers also suffered from water ingress into their gearboxes through the gear selector lever seal situated on top of the gearbox. The problem was the water that ran down the windscreen into the air ventilation intake for fresh air into the cabin was drained away by two rubber tubes, one of which directed the water over the gearbox. The top of the gearbox was strengthened with alloy ridges that criss cross each other and these filled up with water. The gearbox lever was located in one of these ridges.

The water then mixed with gearbox oil and damaged the syncro cones. Citroen half acknowledged a problem and issued a fix which consisted of filling these reinforced ridges with resin, thus preventing ponding of water ontop of the gearbox. I think they also revised the water drains.
Usually replacing the synchro cones, new seals, resin repair and new oil solved the problem.

Is see that the 04 plate Relay I now have has a totally different gearbox to the 51 plate 1.9 diesel I owned before, so maybe this was the ultimate fix.

Ford had a problem with the early 6 speed gearboxes on the Transits as they weren't getting sufficient lubrication - dealer workshops had to issue a special report for every 6 speed gearbox failure. If I remember correctly, the problem was that a shaft with gears on it was above the oil level and required splash lubrication, which wasn't enough. Insufficient lubrication causes friction which causes heat etc etc.

It was commonly accepted in the motor trade that the early Renault Trafic 6 speed boxes also suffered from oil starvation, so knock additional money off the trade in to cover any gearbox repair.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Re: Trafic/Vivaro/Primastar gearboxes - prior to 55 plate
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2009, 10:31:57 pm »
Why do you ask for pre 55 did they fix the problem from 55 onwards? A friend of mine works for vauxhall and he thinks 05 onwards should be ok but I spoke to one of  the mechanics there and he said he wouldn't buy one on any plate unless it had a long warranty

When I say 55 plate, I'm just repeating stuff I heard - like the rest of my post really.  I'm not a DIY mechanic by any stretch and need to pay others to fix such things for me.  However, I believe that the date of registration of a vehicle and the date of manufacture don't always tally.  If there has been over production, a vehicle could end up not being registered until some time after it has been built so I imagine that a van built in early 05 (before the fault was remedied) may well not be registered until some months later as possibly a 55 plate.
I may be wrong ion this but I believe that the gearboxes were made with a better seal after 05/55 whatever that actually kept the water out.  Probably used a bit of araldite or something or maybe chewing gum  :)

jonnyald

Re: Trafic/Vivaro/Primastar gearboxes - prior to 55 plate
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2009, 11:10:37 pm »
french motors always are oddbods anyway . i was a mechanic for many years  and i can tell  you  if ever you pull out a french engine/gearbox  they NEVER will stand upright when out on the deck . 

stevekennedy

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Re: Trafic/Vivaro/Primastar gearboxes - prior to 55 plate
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2009, 11:02:01 pm »
We have replaced two gearboxes so far. One on an '04 trafic and one on an '04 Master. Both were out of warranty.

Needed the vans back pronto so fitted reconditioned gearboxes. (£1000 a piece)

Mechanic said it was a very common problem a brass part (design flaw not present on other gearboxes) falls into the gearbox and wrecks it needing total rebuild.

Very annoyed but figured life is too short to take on Renault over it.

Maybe I will take it up with them next time I come round to buying a van...