[DASERVICES]

I've just helped out a window cleaner who was having problems with his brand new system. He changed the resin in his di vessel and it started coming out at 010 ppm.

After having a look at his system the first thing I looked at was his di vessel and found a serious fault with it. This is very worrying as a company who is trying to protect it's image would use inferior DI Vessels. I've seen quite a few of these vessels before with people having problems with purifying water.

I'm a firm believer in Park Vessels and internals and why suppliers have changed to cheap Chinese Vessels is worrying.

The huge problem with these vessels is the riser tube does not fit firmly in the DI head which then allows untreated water to mix with pure water.

If you do buy a Brodex system I would strongly advise that they fit a Park vessel or one with the same spec. Otherwise you will loose quite a few days work.

Cheers

Doug

[Brodex]

Hi Doug,

We are entirely confident in the quality of our resin vessels. If a small installation error has caused the riser tube to be cut a fraction too short, then we would be happy to rectify this, if your friend can contact us.

What does concern me is why he is changing the resin on a "brand new system"?

Cheers,

Daniel

[mci services]

i know the w/c mentioned an he phoned yesterday morning as is still awaiting a return call, at least he was at 7pm last night when he was filling his tank via my di vessell in order for him to get some work done today, and when doug says brand new he means 4/6weeks old di only

[ronnie paton]

well 4 -6 weeks depending on the amount of water is about right i would of thought, i use DI only and a bag lasts about 8 weeks, thats filling up twice.

i use about 650-800 litres a day

[DASERVICES]

Daniel,

The DI Vessel riser tube had PTF tape around it and the "o" ring was missing. I'll leave that for you to sort out, I know what I'd do if an employee had done that.

Things all sorted now but I have my reservations on the "o" ring in the head being stable enough.

Cheers

Doug

[mci services]

yes the w/c mentioned is now happy and a replacement is on its way, i know because he had to use my di again tonight to get a days work in tomorrow,  :

however apart from the di i have to say i am well impressed with the brodex system, but the little things count and it puts me off buying, when you spend big money on a system you expect everything to be tip top

[LWC]

Little harsh i feel publishing a warning on such a big forum about a problem that could of been sorted and by the sounds of it has been over the phone.

Hardly a warning in my opinion.

[pingu]

Would it not have been better to thrash it all out with the supplier to allow time for them to rectify any issues there may have been?

We all make mistakes from time to time...I have no connections with Brodex and doubt I ever will...but given them a chance.

Dave.

[[GQC] Tim]

Little harsh i feel publishing a warning on such a big forum about a problem that could of been sorted and by the sounds of it has been over the phone.

Hardly a warning in my opinion.

Same here, I don't like people doing this on a forum.

[Moderator David@stives]

I agree not the place or tone for such a trivial thing

[EZclean]

not that trivial if it was your system though and it prevents you from working  because of faulty equipment. maybe now others who have the same vessel would never have known of a  problem, can now have it put right and save money on resin. as long as the guy has rung Brodex as well to inform them and not just put it on here, i've no problem with airing grievances of a supplier on a w/c forum

[DASERVICES]

3 days lost work is a lot so I feel it is a valid point so if anyone who has the same problem will know straight away.

Remember most people will be newbies and scratching their head why their system is wrong, if they don't have someone nearby to pin point the problem the 3 days can become weeks.

The system should have been perfect when sold, the person who put ptfe tape would have known this would happen. So in my eyes I would not try and short change customers if something was wrong and try and bodge it up.

It is all sorted now but a bit of a worry this practise happens, intentionally or unintentionally.

This is the same type of vessel that was supplied by another supplier and they insisted nothing was wrong with it. We then changed di vessel and problem was solved.

In my eyes there is a risk with these vessels some may disagree but better warned than not and you loose days by not working.

[DASERVICES]

Daniel,

I'm a bit miffed why you have taken off end base of the vessel, this means it cannot stand upright and your customers then have the annoyance of trying to fill a vessel that falls over.

There is also a huge risk of damaging the vessel as the base adds protection to the bottom of the vessel as that is the weakest point.

I've seen a few of your systems but none where you have taken the base off.

Why has the design changed!!!

Not having a dig at you but do you not think you will have many warranty claims over damaged vessels!!

Cheers

Doug

[matt]

this thing bugs me

the suppliers love forums to push products, tell us about new stuff etc etc ( even if sometimes its from a " plant " )

yet people moan when the same suppliers get a bit of a bad post about a product they sold

On a old tech forum i used to run, we used to have suppliers all the time posting about deals and special offers, YET when something went wrong, they knew the score, it would get posted on the forums

cake and eat it springs to mind

[Nathanael Jones]

I think Brodex are easy to pick on at the moment,..

Free poles not arriving,..

Hot water is suddenly good again,..

A PR fiasco about their crash test (Great test IMO, but badly announced)

The Aluminum poles being phased out (Allegedly)

And now the DI vessels.


Personally from what I've seen (I don't own a Brodex system) they are fantastic looking bits of kit, very well designed,.. and now (Probably) safer than most of their competitors systems. I don't think the problem is with their products (Every supplier will make a small mistake like the DI vessel every now and then) but their PR team needs a good talking to!!!

A press release for why Hot is now safe to use when it wasn't before?
Clarification on the free pole offer? (Do you do demo's in Ireland?  )
etc etc.

Turn this negative attention round and make use of the spotlight guys!

[Amethyst]

Has anybody actually received a free pole?

[Niall McAllister]

Has anybody actually received a free pole?

hi i had the demo and got the pole.
Johnny that did the demo said he had no room to carry it so after i was to call and tell them it was over. the pole arrived within about 4 days.

I don't feel Doug was wrong in starting this topic, it's not like a rip into brodex, it's just a prob that has occured and might occur again so look out for it. I was going to go DIY but for a few reasons went brodex this time. i have had no probs with the system, but i am greatful for the heads upon something that might go wrong

[LWC]

I was making the point it was hardly a valid "warning"

Fairplay is something wrong...just not much need for a warning in my opinion.

Definition of warning (noun) form plural: warnings caution; advice about danger.

Doesnt sound dangerous to me.

[Niall McAllister]

definition also: notification of something, usually in advance
eg: to warn of a potential problem

[window wonder]

I bought a 15ft prolong from brodex and after a week the top section was sliding past its end stop and eventually was coming right out.
I was surprised to find that the tape used to stop the pole at the clamp was ( fragile ) tape the stuff you put on boxes to indicate fragile contents .
I did call and got a replacement but have been put off by this .
I asked if this was the norm and was told no,
If i was a involved in the window cleaning comunity suppling parts /systems and reputation was important then these mistakes shouldnt happen in the first place .
Is this not excactly what forums are for ?
Discussing experiences / services from suppliers etc etc

[Helen]

I bought a 15ft prolong from brodex and after a week the top section was sliding past its end stop and eventually was coming right out.
I was surprised to find that the tape used to stop the pole at the clamp was ( fragile ) tape the stuff you put on boxes to indicate fragile contents .
I did call and got a replacement but have been put off by this .
I asked if this was the norm and was told no,
If i was a involved in the window cleaning comunity suppling parts /systems and reputation was important then these mistakes shouldnt happen in the first place .
Is this not excactly what forums are for ?
Discussing experiences / services from suppliers etc etc

Mistakes do happen and that is life unfortunately. You say that Brodex rectified the problem.....why be put off, no-one is infallible.
 I agree we should be able to air good and bad points on the forums, but there is a way of doing it.
E.G Had excellent service from "whovever".
E.G. Had a problem with "whatever" from "whoever" and although I was frustrated to experience this problem the supplier dealt with it and solved the problem. Good service when you need it.

[DASERVICES]

There are mistakes which are unintentional which we all agree that does happen. Then there are mistakes that are intentional which sometimes we cannot accept.

With the case of the prolong pole with fragile tape that is intentional as they are not built that way. But we cannot judge who is at fault as it could be the manufacturer or brodex but this should not have happened in the first place.

In manfacturing there is a sample qc and quality check on all parts that come in and those that fail the spec the whole batch is rejected. I have just received a new product and rejected all the stock as it failed the spec. There is no way that I can pass on faulty goods onto the end customer.

This I feel may sometimes not be done by suppliers as they have not been brought up in that enviroment. The only company I know who do spot checks on products is Gardiners as Alex has stated this on the forum a few times. 

Mistakes can be made but if you do not have procedures in place to catch them the company can be at fault.

I not having a go at anyone but any supplier , manufacturer would normally have a qc check in place but this may be lacking in our trade.

[Helen]

There are mistakes which are unintentional which we all agree that does happen. Then there are mistakes that are intentional which sometimes we cannot accept.

spot on!

With the case of the prolong pole with fragile tape that is intentional as they are not built that way. But we cannot judge who is at fault as it could be the manufacturer or brodex but this should not have happened in the first place.

It shouldn't have, but it did so everyone has to accept that and work to solve it

In manfacturing there is a sample qc and quality check on all parts that come in and those that fail the spec the whole batch is rejected. I have just received a new product and rejected all the stock as it failed the spec. There is no way that I can pass on faulty goods onto the end customer.

You wouldn't but I suppose some would which is wrong

This I feel may sometimes not be done by suppliers as they have not been brought up in that enviroment. The only company I know who do spot checks on products is Gardiners as Alex has stated this on the forum a few times. 

Mistakes can be made but if you do not have procedures in place to catch them the company can be at fault.

Even with procedures in place mistakes still can happen

I not having a go at anyone but any supplier , manufacturer would normally have a qc check in place but this may be lacking in our trade.

It is not only our industry that it happens, it is universal within the world of trade. A supplier/manufacturer may have all the necessary procedures and qc checks and more, but at the end of the day it comes downs to human error and that I'm afriad will never be 100% solved

What I am saying is that one or two slip ups from a supplier/manufacturer should not be treated as this is their standard service level, but if it continues to happen then you have to re-access who you purchase from.
If you had ordered 100 prolong poles and only 3 lets say had the fragile taping, as long as they replaced with correct items, gave good customer service in doing so, would this put you off using them? It shouldn't IF it only happens once or twice.........4 times down the road then that is a different matter

[Amethyst]

It is, it seems, basically good kit.

I have had the demo, and had had two quoutes from them.

I'm still awaiting the pole.

I have written one letter

and two emails

response?

What do you think?

Come on Brodex - don't just lay low - change my opinion of you.

I agree that isolated problems of supply and back up happen. There seem to be a few too many in this case though.

I am still looking to get poles and brushes - would I currently buy from this company?

What do you think?

[weetot]

I,m scared to get out of bed nowadays in case i upset someone, I thought that was what a forum was for (air greivances etc:) get the product right and everyones happy  (ish)

[GWCS]

Is this not excactly what forums are for ?
Discussing experiences / services from suppliers etc etc

one of the reasons, yes.

[rhys11]

this thing bugs me

the suppliers love forums to push products, tell us about new stuff etc etc ( even if sometimes its from a " plant " )

yet people moan when the same suppliers get a bit of a bad post about a product they sold

On a old tech forum i used to run, we used to have suppliers all the time posting about deals and special offers, YET when something went wrong, they knew the score, it would get posted on the forums

cake and eat it springs to mind

i agree with matt

[Clive McDonald]

At what point does it become a witch hunt?

If you've got your suppliers hat on da, and not your slwn hat, or your landscape gardening hat, then i think it's a bit unfair for one supplier to criticise another.

[Moderator David@stives]

Resin bottle/ Di resin suppliers hat  ?

Its best suppliers dont slate other suppliers, it doesnt look quite right.

[DASERVICES]

Okay Dave,

Point taken, from now on I will refrain telling folks the "truth" how actually deionisation works with the correct equipment.

I am at that point where I have daily calls with problems and l will  now pass it onto suppliers who say it cant't be the equipment. Can I just say in defence yes people make mistakes but what annoys me is people who fob off customers with wrong information. In defence of suppliers this is often their employees not doing their job.

This is not a witch hunt but suppliers please be honest. The only suppliers I see who are honest are Gardiners and Omnipole.

Cheers

Doug

[Moderator David@stives]

Doug

I am sure you will be back.

All I was saying is you are a supplier, and its not good form to get involved.

Highlight the problems generally and tell people what they should look for, then leave it at that.

People soon make there minds up about these things, but as a supplier yourself you have to step back.

Good luck with the Slwcn and your businesses

Dave

[Window Washers]

I respect doug for being honest, and if a supplier see's something that is wrong I think it is good for them to say about it (makes them a good supplier IMO, slating for no reason I would agree is bad form.

[Peter Fogwill]

This is not a witch hunt but suppliers please be honest. The only suppliers I see who are honest are Gardiners and Omnipole.

Cheers

Doug

I don't think much thought went in before this statement was made.


Peter

[matt]

what a shocking event

doug comes on here and warms others about the problem with the di vessel Brodex are suppling

then is turns into a witch hunt against him

once again, supplier having that piece of cake and eating it

i MUST not be a 1 way street, if a item is wrong / faulty / not fit for purpose, then members here need to hear about it

doug is a prominent person with his work with the  SLWCN, people will call him for advice and help, he has identified a problem and has warned others about it ( so you dont lose a few days work )

funny enough, i get loads of e.mails over at the DIY forum, i will go out of my way to help others ( infact i have some1 coming to see me this easter weekend, what do i get out of it, nowt, its done to help others, if i see a problem with kit thats been supplied for BIG money by 1 of the big suppliers, i should warn others ? ? ?  right  ?? ? ? )

doug, a shame to see you leave, but i am sure you will do your bit for the boys up in scotland

[GWCS]

what a shocking event

doug comes on here and warms others about the problem with the di vessel Brodex are suppling

then is turns into a witch hunt against him

once again, supplier having that piece of cake and eating it

i MUST not be a 1 way street, if a item is wrong / faulty / not fit for purpose, then members here need to hear about it

doug is a prominent person with his work with the  SLWCN, people will call him for advice and help, he has identified a problem and has warned others about it ( so you dont lose a few days work )

funny enough, i get loads of e.mails over at the DIY forum, i will go out of my way to help others ( infact i have some1 coming to see me this easter weekend, what do i get out of it, nowt, its done to help others, if i see a problem with kit thats been supplied for BIG money by 1 of the big suppliers, i should warn others ? ? ?  right  ?? ? ? )

doug, a shame to see you leave, but i am sure you will do your bit for the boys up in scotland

Nice post! 100% agree.

[Moderator David@stives]

I still stick by what I said, you dont see Gardiners coming on here and slating other suppliers.


The last thing we want is a suppliers war on this forum.

I admire Doug for his SLWCN work, but he shouldnt take things to heart, I have met the guy and he seems sound apart from a dodgy moustache.

Using the forums to promote things becomes a double edged sword,

Its definately not a witch hunt,

[matt]

Dave

doug supplies resin doesnt he, he is hardly in completion with brodex

or have i missed something here

[Moderator David@stives]

Vessels as well, I think

Either way nothing bad said or done, he just decided to have a bad moment and delete himself.