[Jack Harris]

to all the people who operate x2 vans + businesses how did you go about taking the next step from being a one man band?

Did you get someone in part time and train them up, then once trained get another van on the round and build a round etc?

Id like to hear how you all grew your successful businesses.

At the moment I'm 4 years in on my own and I'm busy 6 days a week, i know i could of built my business up faster but i built it at a steady pace. My only regret is not having all my customers on go cardless from the start which I'm in the process now trying to get them all signed up 

[Smudger]

The first employee is the biggest and hardest step, I'm sure their is more than one right way of doing it depending on your circumstances   - for it was being busy enough that I could absorb the cost of another wage, but being mindful that for a period I could be a bit slower due to training etc...

My first step was to set a van up for 2 men, this gives you full control over your new employee it also allows you to do shorter days on the glass so you can spend some time canvassing more work ( or leaflet ) once the pair of you get into the swing of things it's vital you increase work quickly, as it will become a drain on what you used to earn on your own.

Keep getting new work and doing it together, when start to approach a time where you can't quite keep up buy a second van and set it up, at this point employee 1 goes out on their own but not all the time, take on a second employee, ideally a part timer, train him/her up and they will then float between you and employee 1 and when your happy go out solo leaving you time to keep expanding.

Do not stick with just 1 employee, they do go sick, require holidays, and may leave, if this happens your in the 💩 Too much work no one to clean, so the part timer is a great safety valve.  Then just keep repeating the above until your happy and or rule Walsall and the surrounding area 

HTH
Darran

[8weekly]

The first employee is the biggest and hardest step, I'm sure their is more than one right way of doing it depending on your circumstances   - for it was being busy enough that I could absorb the cost of another wage, but being mindful that for a period I could be a bit slower due to training etc...

My first step was to set a van up for 2 men, this gives you full control over your new employee it also allows you to do shorter days on the glass so you can spend some time canvassing more work ( or leaflet ) once the pair of you get into the swing of things it's vital you increase work quickly, as it will become a drain on what you used to earn on your own.

Keep getting new work and doing it together, when start to approach a time where you can't quite keep up buy a second van and set it up, at this point employee 1 goes out on their own but not all the time, take on a second employee, ideally a part timer, train him/her up and they will then float between you and employee 1 and when your happy go out solo leaving you time to keep expanding.

Do not stick with just 1 employee, they do go sick, require holidays, and may leave, if this happens your in the 💩 Too much work no one to clean, so the part timer is a great safety valve.  Then just keep repeating the above until your happy and or rule Walsall and the surrounding area 

HTH
Darran

That's more or less exactly what I'm doing. I now have the second van and at the moment it's manic, but it will settle down in a week or two as the current bulge in work subsides a little. My goal is to go for more commercial work as we will hit the vat threshold in about 4 months (new ltd company started 1st April so set to zero from then). I could absorb another employee now, but I will wait another month or two.

My plan is to send employee two out with employee one ASAP and then fill in the gaps myself until ready for employee three. And so on... As Darren said.

[kempy]

Your succeed , you already have done .
Get the advice from here
Good luck

[Smudger]

Sounds good 8 weekly.

It has it's ups and downs, but well worth it in the end.

As a side note, I found some existing long term customers a bit resistant to the staff, not when with me but as they went solo, but over time they got used to it, as new customers come on board it's naturally accepted they may see different people clean their windows.
 
Darran

[NWH]

Send them out on there own and watch them get more and more bitter when they know what they are earning you lol,I would be very reluctant to send 2 out together. I had an old employee who was given a sheet with 10 days work on it when I went on holiday,it was enough work for him to do if he had a rocket up his arse he still would have struggled to do it. I told him to plod not rush quality not quantity and all that. When I came back refreshed and ready for work he had done about 4 days work out of the 10,he said don't worry you don't have to pay me for those days I couldn't work I said oh right thanks lol.i found unless I wasn't around it went tits up always an excuse for not doing certain work and not in the right order etc,I would have it mind to have someone with you in your van for a year at least and then get another van but have him with you a couple of days out of the week.

[Tom-01]

Its good to get to that stage, well done on getting there. I too am in the same position. I have one van and one guy who works for me - not employed. Had a very good year this year, way beyond expectations, which then does bring its headaches. Do I absorb the VAT and pay flat rate? I worked out I'd need approx another £1100 a month for profit to be the same. But it wouldn't be, because I'd need a part timer, who would cost about £850 a month. So far thats £1950 extra a month I need. And then buy and run a second van say £150 a month (probably more tbh). Total £2100 extra I need. And thats not making any extra profit. So thats a lot of work to do. I looked at the commercial side of things, which can help but again you need a shedload of it. Plus the 8% you 'gain' you pay tax on twice - 20% corporation tax, and then personal tax. The taxman isn't silly, they know how to get their money, the flat rate isn't really a benefit. Do I pass on the VAT to my customers? A few I could, but theres lots of windies who already are cheaper than me.

I know of a guy who turns over a good sum. But when everything is paid (2 employees + him, 2 vans, VAT, everything else) he's no better off financially than when he had 4 solid days a week by himself, but now has a lot of extra work to do and the guys who work for him cause him lots of grief.

If you want to run a fairly decent sized business and don't mind managing people and what comes with it I think it starts to make financial sense about 4 vans in. Thats a lot of work to get and a lot of workers got through as well, and a lot of bills. It works well for Smudger who has Mrs Smudger. Someone who doesn't have a Mrs Smudger will then need to find someone as trustworthy and as good as Mrs Smudger, or they will have to be Mrs Smudger themselves.

I have a plan which I'm not going to go into right now but I think its one that makes sense. At the end of the day the bottom line is profit, so its a case of minimum headaches/stress and maximum profit.

Its good that there's many on here doing really well, keep it up lads!

Tom

[8weekly]

Its good to get to that stage, well done on getting there. I too am in the same position. I have one van and one guy who works for me - not employed. Had a very good year this year, way beyond expectations, which then does bring its headaches. Do I absorb the VAT and pay flat rate? I worked out I'd need approx another £1100 a month for profit to be the same. But it wouldn't be, because I'd need a part timer, who would cost about £850 a month. So far thats £1950 extra a month I need. And then buy and run a second van say £150 a month (probably more tbh). Total £2100 extra I need. And thats not making any extra profit. So thats a lot of work to do. I looked at the commercial side of things, which can help but again you need a shedload of it. Plus the 8% you 'gain' you pay tax on twice - 20% corporation tax, and then personal tax. The taxman isn't silly, they know how to get their money, the flat rate isn't really a benefit. Do I pass on the VAT to my customers? A few I could, but theres lots of windies who already are cheaper than me.

I know of a guy who turns over a good sum. But when everything is paid (2 employees + him, 2 vans, VAT, everything else) he's no better off financially than when he had 4 solid days a week by himself, but now has a lot of extra work to do and the guys who work for him cause him lots of grief.

If you want to run a fairly decent sized business and don't mind managing people and what comes with it I think it starts to make financial sense about 4 vans in. Thats a lot of work to get and a lot of workers got through as well, and a lot of bills. It works well for Smudger who has Mrs Smudger. Someone who doesn't have a Mrs Smudger will then need to find someone as trustworthy and as good as Mrs Smudger, or they will have to be Mrs Smudger themselves.

I have a plan which I'm not going to go into right now but I think its one that makes sense. At the end of the day the bottom line is profit, so its a case of minimum headaches/stress and maximum profit.

Its good that there's many on here doing really well, keep it up lads!

Tom

Surely all you need to do is add 20% VAT to your bills? I won't do that with new customers where the VAT is already built in but old jobs will just get a 20% rise for "VAT". If I lose some, so be it. If you went VAT registered and just did that you may find it costs you nothing other than a few customers. Ok, it isn't great, but it needn't hold you back.

If the guy you know is no better off than he was doing 4 days a week, his work is either underpriced or he's lying.

Added after. I made more money with one employee and one van than I did on my own, so I don't see where you get the idea that it needs 4 vans from.

[NWH]

Straight away you will need to be earning his money + profit + equipment + you'll physically be doing more work for at least the first year or so,if it was just a case of getting more work and showing someone the existing work it work be a doddle. With just one worker the VAT threshold should soon be approaching a lot of guys down south can easily reach it or very close to it on there own

[8weekly]

Straight away you will need to be earning his money + profit + equipment + you'll physically be doing more work for at least the first year or so,if it was just a case of getting more work and showing someone the existing work it work be a doddle. With just one worker the VAT threshold should soon be approaching a lot of guys down south can easily reach it or very close to it on there own

The bit about more work is true. Rough figures, two of us working until 4pm brings in around £500, me on my own working until 2/3 brings in £300.

[Tom-01]

Its good to get to that stage, well done on getting there. I too am in the same position. I have one van and one guy who works for me - not employed. Had a very good year this year, way beyond expectations, which then does bring its headaches. Do I absorb the VAT and pay flat rate? I worked out I'd need approx another £1100 a month for profit to be the same. But it wouldn't be, because I'd need a part timer, who would cost about £850 a month. So far thats £1950 extra a month I need. And then buy and run a second van say £150 a month (probably more tbh). Total £2100 extra I need. And thats not making any extra profit. So thats a lot of work to do. I looked at the commercial side of things, which can help but again you need a shedload of it. Plus the 8% you 'gain' you pay tax on twice - 20% corporation tax, and then personal tax. The taxman isn't silly, they know how to get their money, the flat rate isn't really a benefit. Do I pass on the VAT to my customers? A few I could, but theres lots of windies who already are cheaper than me.

I know of a guy who turns over a good sum. But when everything is paid (2 employees + him, 2 vans, VAT, everything else) he's no better off financially than when he had 4 solid days a week by himself, but now has a lot of extra work to do and the guys who work for him cause him lots of grief.

If you want to run a fairly decent sized business and don't mind managing people and what comes with it I think it starts to make financial sense about 4 vans in. Thats a lot of work to get and a lot of workers got through as well, and a lot of bills. It works well for Smudger who has Mrs Smudger. Someone who doesn't have a Mrs Smudger will then need to find someone as trustworthy and as good as Mrs Smudger, or they will have to be Mrs Smudger themselves.

I have a plan which I'm not going to go into right now but I think its one that makes sense. At the end of the day the bottom line is profit, so its a case of minimum headaches/stress and maximum profit.

Its good that there's many on here doing really well, keep it up lads!

Tom

Surely all you need to do is add 20% VAT to your bills? I won't do that with new customers where the VAT is already built in but old jobs will just get a 20% rise for "VAT". If I lose some, so be it. If you went VAT registered and just did that you may find it costs you nothing other than a few customers. Ok, it isn't great, but it needn't hold you back.

If the guy you know is no better off than he was doing 4 days a week, his work is either underpriced or he's lying.

Added after. I made more money with one employee and one van than I did on my own, so I don't see where you get the idea that it needs 4 vans from.

If you're passing on the full 20% VAT to your customers then fair play. I am umming and ahhing as to whether I do that or not. I personally feel I would lose a lot of work.

You may find lots of your existing customers will offer to pay you cash rather than an extra 20%.  We do quite a lot of blocks of flats which would definitely look elsewhere if I charged an extra 20%, they're good earners but then becomes a drain if I can't add the VAT.

I also earn more than on my own, but the bigger you get with more vans what I'm saying is all the extra work that goes with it, and hassle with staff, pension payments, NI contributions etc all add up. So that's why I said 4 vans as probably one van a day would pay for all the costs.

I'm not saying it can't work, but knowing a few people who have multiple vans and employees have a lot more headaches.

[NWH]

You would need to be constantly getting more work unless you have people working for you that are as conciencious as you you'd be getting complaints galore,I'm not saying good workers are not out there but I'd say for every 5 you try 1 might work out. This must be the only job that people with family problems go for lol,the amount of ridiculous excuses for not coming to work were endless laughable at times. Part cash part legit would keep the old tax bill down a bit though lol

[8weekly]

Sounds good 8 weekly.

It has it's ups and downs, but well worth it in the end.

As a side note, I found some existing long term customers a bit resistant to the staff, not when with me but as they went solo, but over time they got used to it, as new customers come on board it's naturally accepted they may see different people clean their windows.
 
Darran

Yep, found that too. The biggest problem is that they check scrupulously your new employee's work. Things that I'd get away with, they don't.

[Tom-01]

You would need to be constantly getting more work unless you have people working for you that are as conciencious as you you'd be getting complaints galore,I'm not saying good workers are not out there but I'd say for every 5 you try 1 might work out. This must be the only job that people with family problems go for lol,the amount of ridiculous excuses for not coming to work were endless laughable at times. Part cash part legit would keep the old tax bill down a bit though lol

Definitely agree with that. The first guy I had knew it all and was apparently worth being employed on £120 per day. That was after he had gone out and left my van parked in a Tesco Car Park, called me at 1:30am saying he won't be back to get it so I had to sort out getting there to bring it back. Then got the hump because I said he couldn't use it again when his car broke down. It nearly put me off taking anyone else on ever.

The thing is as a business owner we don't mind working hard, and doing extra because the rewards are pretty damn good. However those doing it as a job that's all it is. Monotonous and boring after a while. I remember my old jobs, great for a while then you start thinking you should be earning more, resenting your boss because of his car etc. That's why I can see it potentially causing agg expanding.

Tom

[ascjim]

Take a pay cut and go for it. You will never do it else.

[NWH]

I wouldn't take a pay cut and TBH I don't think you would need to I would only ever take someone on now that can use a pole from day 1,the first day of the week should more or less cover his wages-fuel near enough the rest of the week you should both be working for you more or less. I would aim for a Monday and Tuesday hammer a tongs and try to knock out good paying work to get a good start to the week,I would have to be doing the amount I'm paying him extra or I wouldn't bother,the main benefit is the fact youd be earning more money only you should only end up doing half the work over the course of the week.If I was earning the same money but only doing half the work it would be a good incentive but you try finding someone reliable enough,but like trying to sniff out rocking horse poop TBH

[NWH]

If you paid someone say 20k a year in reality you would need to be bringing that in again after paying that in wages,most would need to go VAT for sure that I know and by the time you take NI TAX into consideration and poles etc you wouldn't be that much better off. I don't think that employing 1-2 people is going to make you much more money it's on the whole only going to make life easier on the grafting aspect of things ie you won't be working as hard or pushing daily,I think a lot of people underestimate how much more work you'd need to keep 2-3 blokes going coz I know how much work I can get through on my own sometimes. You here a lot of people saying they have loads and loads of work but the work you see them doing is rubbish half the time for peanuts

[supernova77]

F R A N C H I S E

 

[Ian101]

F R A N C H I S E

 

yes ... I think long term a lot less head aches maybe not as profitable but a much easier life ....

[8weekly]

Take a pay cut and go for it. You will never do it else.

I never took a cut. I got about 3 weeks behind and caught up over three months whilst ramping up leaflet dropping. As a result we were never short of work.

[lee_dewing]

In my humble opinion I had the idea of taking on a youngster at £30 a day.

Then once their up to speed build more work on  the basis of putting together another round for a franchisee.

Never employed anyone and not looking forward to the day I need to, which seems to be not far away.

There must be some youngsters out there who want to work?
Might have to confiscate their toys at the start of the day (phone)

If you had the right employee hopefully you could keep them motivated with pay rises and also a chance to be a franchisee somewhere in the future.

[NWH]

Blimey £30 a day good if you can that would be like having someone working for me for free lol,I can do that on a few shops before 8-15. That's nothing short of sweatshop money you'd be paying him lol

[Smudger]

It takes more than just pay rises to keep people motivated 

I'd advise against a youngster - not that they won't put in a hard day, but many customers are wary of letting lads of that age around their property, my youngest worker is 22 - tallish and solidly built, and when he started I got a few comments of concern that he was too young, the other problem is van insurance under 25 will set you back a lot of money ( I mean a lot! )

Then there's holiday pay, NI, now pensions on the horizon, uniform, insurances - the list goes on !

Enjoy

Darran

[lee_dewing]

What should you pay am employee say 18 year old?

Darran when you say van insurance do you mean letting employee drive your van.

I would not have an employee driving my van.

[NWH]

IMO 22 is still way to young for me I've had slightly older and I have been lucky enough to get the ones on benefits with a lazy arsed girlfriend with a couple of kids that keep moaning at him for actually going to work lol. The fact of the matter is with this job so many people still think they can turn up when they like the worst thing I could ever do at the time was to say we've had a good couple of weeks we are on track to catch up,a week goes by and they automatically think they are entitled to a day or 2 off. I would go for someone late 20s at the yougest and they would definitely have to have bills to pay otherwise I wouldn't employ them. Ex army or someone looking to work hard for 3 days a week for a sensible wage is not peanuts,IMO you need to pay someone more than they can get most other places doing a physical job or they won't last 5 minutes.