[Clear Vision]

Today I lost all confidence in wfp

I was cleaning a few monthly accounts today (houses) when I noticed a load of runs and spots on the downstairs windows. (I'm 100% sure it's lime spots)

Now what I have noticed for a few months is that when you clean the upstairs windows the water runs down the harling and onto the downstairs window and dries leaving one hell of a mess

On some of these windows it's that bad that the glass is etched and it will not come off. I took 000 grade steel wool and the scraper to it but no joy

The customers haven't said anything yet but what do I say when they notice it.

I was thinking of saying to them, it's all the wind and rain we have had and the rain is washing the lime down the house and onto the windows?

P.S never had this prob when I was trad!

Matthew
Clear Vision

[U.S. wfp USER]

Don't give up just yet.

It sounds to me like the pure water is leaching the minerals out of the limestone.

Problem is not just gonna be that there is runs on the lower windows, but that you may end up leaving marks on the stone itself.  This may be a job where the wfp is not an option.  Can they be accessed with a pole and squeegee?

[Clear Vision]

Yes they could be accessed with a pole and squeegee but some of the windows on the houses with the lime prob are fine? It's just a couple!

[JM123]

yeah, i would be careful with these ones, I'd go with our American friend on this one.

[Clear Vision]

yeah, i would be careful with these ones, I'd go with our American friend on this one.

I think I will trad them with the pole.

But has anyone else experienced this problem?

Oh, If I go back to trad on these house that is basicaly me admiting that it was wfp that left the marks.

Can I be sued for this?

[macmac]

this dont sound right, even if the water runs from upstairs onto downstairs window it will be removed within a few minutes when you clean the bottom window. these few minutes are not long enough for anything like lime, minerals, whatever to perminantly mark it. to me its more likely that its done by rain which then leaves itself on there till you come back to clean them, giving plenty of time for it to etch/stain/mark the glass, so i dont think its you but the weather. it probably shows more when you clean it, thus making you think it you thats caused it.
hope i'm right on this.

tony

[simon knight]

yeah, i would be careful with these ones, I'd go with our American friend on this one.

I think I will trad them with the pole.

But has anyone else experienced this problem?

Oh, If I go back to trad on these house that is basicaly me admiting that it was wfp that left the marks.

Can I be sued for this?

Technically yes. Like anything else if you damage somebodies property that person can look to you for recompense. But in this case it's extremely unlikely as they'd have to prove that the marks on the window(s) were of your making.

I was accused once of scratching glass (I didn't) and the customer started threatening all sorts...including legal action. It all ended when I said the 4 magical words:  "Prove it was me".

[Clear Vision]

this dont sound right, even if the water runs from upstairs onto downstairs window it will be removed within a few minutes when you clean the bottom window. these few minutes are not long enough for anything like lime, minerals, whatever to perminantly mark it. to me its more likely that its done by rain which then leaves itself on there till you come back to clean them, giving plenty of time for it to etch/stain/mark the glass, so i dont think its you but the weather. it probably shows more when you clean it, thus making you think it you thats caused it.
hope i'm right on this.

tony

That's what I think too.

But on one window especially when I cleaned the upstairs window you can see the drip and run from my water coming down onto the top frame of the bottom window. The frame is all white and the glass is etched/marked/whit/runs.

So on this 1 window I'm 100% sure it's me.

How can I get round this?

[Clear Vision]

yeah, i would be careful with these ones, I'd go with our American friend on this one.

I was accused once of scratching glass (I didn't) and the customer started threatening all sorts...including legal action. It all ended when I said the 4 magical words:  "Prove it was me".

I think with your case it was easier to get out of that one?

In my case you can physically see the drip and mark that was caused by me.

If the do take legal action will my public liability cover me?

[simon knight]

Yes of course it will.

[Clear Vision]

Should I just drop these jobs?

Poor paying ones anyway.

[Tosh]

I do a well paid Georgian windowed house I just can't get right with a WFP after six months of trying.  I think the problem was that the dividing wooden frames are about an inch from the pain of glass; so the glass is set deeply into the frames.

I'm back to ladders for this job; but it's safe; easy to do and they're great customers.

There's some jobs - a tiny minority on my round (about four of 'em) - where WFP isn't suitable; but they pay well so are worth keeping.  

Some of these I'll do 'tops only' and trad the ground floor, others I'll use ladders for.

You've just got to use some common sense.

[simon knight]

Should I just drop these jobs?

Poor paying ones anyway.

If you want to drop them because they're poor paying then yes drop them. But I wouldn't drop them because of the marks on the glass.

Have you tried 100% solvent?

[macmac]

so what happens when it rains and all the rain water runs down the wall onto the bottom window??

[stuart@skypole]

clear view,

why not try a simple test clean the said windows trad (but safely) but clean one with pure water the results will prove one way or the other,

although pure water running over lime stone onto windows will not cause this, however try the above to ease your mind

rgds
stuart

[Jeff Brimble]

Its only when you wfp that you start looking close at the glass, Limestone run off occurs over a period of quite a months and will mark the glass similar to the normal run from a wfp. You often get it from concrete.stone  lintels that have no or little drip channel the water can run straight on the glass. Maybe you could let us have a pic of the type of window sometime ?
It may not be you ( I dont think it is you) Its more likely to have been there before. It will etch into the glass and will happen anyway from heavy rain. The USA has similar problems with sprinklers for baskets and lawns spraying borehole water ( heavy with calcium and other salts)  on the glass  
The fresh lime issue from rendering is slightly different and unless it has a proper sealing coat there is not much you can do apart from cutting down on the water useage.
Hope this helps or reassures you.

[Clear Vision]

Will try and cut down on water usage jeff.

Will try and get some pics sometime soon. Might have to wait until I go back in 4 weeks.

[Pureandclean]

I faced this on one house, I noticed it before I changed over to wfp and told the lady that because there was no plastic drip tray over the window the rain was running straight off the wall and the stone lintel and staining her window. She said it was ok because her father had fitted the windows, about 18months later after using wfp she canceled me because she thought my wfp was staining her windows.
 I have seen it on a mock georgian farm house where the windows were almost opaque in places due to the run off, but some windows had the drip trays and there was no problem with those windows.
 It is the rain that is doing it !!

[Alex Gardiner]

This problem is bound to be down to the weather as much as WFP. The rain will run off the window and down onto the lime and then onto the window below in exactly the same place as your pure water.

Another element in this is the sunshine, usually this problem is worse on the sunny side of the house. The sun reacts with the mineral deposits and etches them into the glass. (some chemist explained it to me a while back)

On one large apartment block we do this problem has been steadily getting worse year after year. When they converted the building 6 years ago they fitted new concrete lintels above every new window with no drip control.

That's life!

Alex

[Ian_Giles]

I cannot see this as being anything to do with you, as others have said or implied, by the time you have done the downstairs windows the water will no longer be dripping down, you will find that this is down to wind, rain and general weathering.

The limescale deposits occur as the water from the walls above the windows runs onto the glass (we all know that I know) but it will be from running and repeatedely drying out, it takes a fair old while for the build up to begin to show, from WFP it just doesn't get the chance to dry out before you have gone over the window with your pole and brush.

Ian

[KarlJones]

Now I would not normally suggest this for window cleaning, but vinegar.

Have you tried it?  It is good at removing limescale so it might stand a chance.

[DASERVICES]

I have loads of houses like this , one house you cannot see out of the windows because it is that bad. But these were like that when I use to trad clean them.
The route cause is bad building deisgn, even on new houses this is happening.

On one brand new building which has no top windows I pointed it out to the owner. In Scotland it is pretty bad as each house is rendered and then stone chippings so the water running down the walls gets contaminated by the glue they use to adhere the stones. This then runs onto the windows and marks them.

WFP is not the root cause as when you do the bottom windows you will have washed the residue that has run from the upstairs windows. It's the rain and I do not know what builders are using now but nearly every new house will have these problems.

Maybe worth looking into and speaking to someone in the building trade.

Doug

[eddie d]

id say ladder it or drop it .the pole doesnt work everywhere.

[cleantech.co.uk]

mathew, have you tried using MDR on the windows?

http://www.cleantech.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_34&products_id=177

it should remove the spots.

basically the trouble is that the builing itself may be dirty, so when the water rinses down its cleaning the building, transfering the dirt from it to the downstairs windows.

the problem will EVENTUALLY go away, but you could try and suggest to them that the have the building pressure washed - this should help.

p.s. - is it a sandstone, brick or painted building ?