[richywilts]

How many customers do you have and what frequency I'm playing with idea of downsizing as really finding it difficult to progress business I feel I've hit a brick wall,I've tried to grow big but can't seem to motivate staff even tho I try, I don't think I have authority to manage I back down too much.im sick of staff wanting high wages and not being productive enough and it's really getting me down all they care about is themselves.

Since break in we prob had 1000 customers thru jobbing off messers and losing a lot after break indown to below 700 now not enuf for myself n 3 staff.

I offered to keep them all on butbegin canvassing tues n thurs evening with basic wage plus 5quid a customer they get on.

I don't think they are that motivated they just want to clean windows and do admin and really do not understand I can't keep them all on at present unless we do some serious rebuilding.

I've got to point I don't want to go to work now only option is going it alone and selling or jabbing off the crap work and rebuild steadily and grow when I'm ready,problem is I'm signed into 5 year lease on unit etc which I have another seperate business idea to utilise the space

[lyndy]

Sounds like you needs time out,you can't see the wood for trees.

Get rid or lay your staff off

[GDwindowcleaning]

Its very honest of you to admit your weaknesses, but cos you can admit them it means you can fix them if you want to...

Peolpe that are not self aware cant change but you can, you just need to get your head in the right place and you can do it all again. I would call a meeting with your staff and lay it all on the line, unless they step up they will be unemployed....

[Erithwc]

you sound like someone in deep money problems and totaly stressed out for little return.

only you know whats really going on with you business what work you have what debts you have ect.

as for the lock up can you not pay a cancellation fee.

Plus the problem with down sizing your business will mean you will have to do window cleaning and you have already stated that you don't like doing it.

[Dave Willis]

I would think one van with two men could easily cover your existing round.

[richywilts]

It's all sine the break in things were going ok except for van being off road two weeks before break in I just don't think they give two hoots if things go tits up I am pretty close to breaking point money wise

[richywilts]

Mark 200 of those customers cud be sacked off coz crap payers I cud have400-500 customers for myself n start earning money for myself

[Carl@Cwc]

m8 we have been here b4 ?

we have 5 staff in various occupations and if me and mrs could go back to just doing them ourselves we would in a flash as noone does it like you  , why ?? because its your money you are earning.

you need to get rid of rubbish ,not wanted rounds and staff, whilst keeping enough for you & 1 more person (possibly).
get out there get em cleaned ,take the money and stop whining lol.

how can u be stressing yourself out cleaning windows ?  back to basics for u m8.

my biggest stress is finding a dogpoo in the way or cant find my lighter.

and for that reason im out!

[Pope vader]

get a van, with you and ur best worker, and take all the cream of than round,  all the best payers and sell the rest off,  

or as above, but get ur crap you dont want,  get a  van, get the other 2 staff give them a van and round as reduncy and say bye,  let them run on there own

[richywilts]

you sound like someone in deep money problems and totaly stressed out for little return.

only you know whats really going on with you business what work you have what debts you have ect.

as for the lock up can you not pay a cancellation fee.

Plus the problem with down sizing your business will mean you will have to do window cleaning and you have already stated that you don't like doing it.

I say I don't like window cleaning but that's wen I'm taking very little wage and doing loads a work to line other pols pockets!!!!

I understand wat u r saying life is a struggle at min but nothing I can't cope with if I was that desperate I'd of got rid before now Im just trying to gauge whether it's worth still working to long term goal and struggling or forget it and take above average wage but do it all alone

[Dave Willis]

I think you're blaming the breakins on a failing business. Run one van with you and a trusted mate, run the business just below the vat threshold and you can't go wrong. It means working for a living, no more swanning about in the 'office' but there is potential for decent money for the pair of you with little overheads. Maybe sub-let the unit, you don't need it.

[Dean Taberner]

You need to be careful that your staff don't nick your work when you get rid of them mate.

If I was you I'd go to the pub, watch liverpool hammer stoke (fingers crossed), forget about window cleaning until tomorrow afternoon/night and chill. That's what I'm going to do anyway.

Dean.

[dazmond]

i bet with the work you ve got you could sell some on to employees then just concentrate on cleaning the best work yourself.

surely you could scale down with one van.sell other vans and equipment and work.pay debts off and earn on your own.

i bet you could make £150-£250 a day 4 or 5 days a week working as a sole trader.

look after number one.YOU!!

i reckon if you did this and kept it simple with hardly any hassle you d be happier!!

with a good healthy profit at the end of the year!!


best wishes



dazmond

[dazmond]

i have 300+ customers.mostly domestic on calendar monthly with around 50 two monthlies and a few commercial.i have time at the end of the month to fit in fascia/soffit/conny roof cleans or have a few days off.

it works well for me.im doing well!!and im happy with hardly any hassle!!

[richywilts]

Daz ur business sounds appealing right now!!!

[Dean Taberner]

I'm going to watch Port Vale instead and then drink, ill need a drink after that.

[richywilts]

I think you're blaming the breakins on a failing business. Run one van with you and a trusted mate, run the business just below the vat threshold and you can't go wrong. It means working for a living, no more swanning about in the 'office' but there is potential for decent money for the pair of you with little overheads. Maybe sub-let the unit, you don't need it.

The break in was cause of failing business I'm not using it to blame I've had to replace equipment,lost debt lists,lost hundreds customer details,relocate,repair damages,decorate new unit,give lads work till we updated all customer details we salvaged from old wood sheets etc.

At time didn't seem hat significant but adding it all up it's prob cost me 15grand plus

I tried to get on and plod on even layed a lad off in December to cut costs but had to pay him 11 days holiday he accrued then lost a week time off over xmas

[Scott Dean]

Take a look at the people who work for you or around you. Now if they are not motivated is it something that could be changed by you being more positive or are they just not interested in the business?

If the staff are not supporting you or the business you need to move them on, you and your business are the most important thing here and not the well being of your members of staff, that comes second in my book.

You need staff that can take the reigns and help move your business ahead, not control you. Remember without a steady income of new customers they'll be back down the job centre looking for another position, as without a strong customer base they'll have no wages.

Most will say that your ex-employee's can or will steal your work from under you but a short headed letter to your clients will concrete them into staying with you, all this should be completed before the dead wait are moved on. On the plus side, a little shuffle of staff should make the ones you keep think twice and motivate them into pulling their finger out.

Just on a minor note, if your paying them a set wage move them onto a more bonus based scheme. If they don't put in the effort then they wont reap any rewards, be it cleaning, admin or canvassing.

The one thing you must be through all of this is be positive. I know it can be very hard but all your hard work will be wasted and you'll kick yourself later down the line for not sticking at it.

Hope that's helped...

[Carl@Cwc]

Daz ur business sounds appealing right now!!!

sit down and make it happen then.

set yourself £150 or whatever a day min x 5 days max pr wk.

you really are very fortunate that you can do this , lots would kill for 700 custies.

it really is in your hands to do, i wouldnt rest till id trimmed it to suit me and me only.

be carefull with getting rid of staff as they have been the window cleaner and could easily pinch lots of work for themselves. as they are really the point of contact .

it was a good idea to sell the van and rounds you dont want on to staff as a thanks but no thanks.
if they are not really bothered but fancy the idea of being there own boss , they might do you a favour and splash the cash and knacker there round up.

think what you need to continue, and get rid of rest howver you prefer, leaving you again back in charge of YOUR business

[colley614]

Richy, everythings fine. Trust me on that. I bet I could sort this out with you. Just don't panic!

[daniel worgan]

Mark 200 of those customers cud be sacked off coz crap payers I cud have400-500 customers for myself n start earning money for myself

Richy i think the above statement makes sense in your case.
You definatley have ambition and ideas,but for whatever reason it's not really working out how you wanted...so go back to basics and get back your life (and a decent income as well).Dont worry about your staff,they dont seem to have put themselves out for you when you offered them to earn extra in order to secure their jobs...just close the business down and start all over again.
Go round to all the customers you want to keep,have a chat with them and tell them you will be doing the windows in future and not to allow anyone else to do them (just in case one of your workers tries to nick your work)
I reckon after a few months you will have some motivation and ambition back and you can move forward from there...
I like a trier.....good luck to you whatever you do..
 

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Go back to basics & start again. Get rid of everything surplus to you & 1 other man. Get rid of all the crap work & keep the cream. For the assets that you can sell then pay any debts off with it.

Had a mate in another trade in similar circumstances, he ran before walking, had ideas beyond his capability & budget, had multiple vans, staff etc & his final years turnover was 270,000!!!! YET, in five years he never made a "profit" of more than what he did as a sole trader with virtually no overheads!

In the end he got taken for 40k & finished him off in that way of business.

He went back to basics 3 years ago, wasn't so blase & silly this time & is now doing VERY well with two permanent staff & subbies when needed, in-fact, he doesn't do much on the job work these days. He is now much better off & happier.

[Ian101]

Richy I could give u opinion and thoughts but would take too long to type so if u fancy a pint 1 nite next week gissa shout but not the Knot though.

[andyM]

I would agree with a lot of whats been said. Forget about going down the pub, I would sit down today and start working out:
* Which member of staff you want to keep on
* Sort out the best paying work from your rounds to keep
* Organise selling on the work you don't want
* Organise what vehicles/equipment you don't need and put up for sale
* See if you can terminate the lease on the rented unit
* Chase up all money owed

[colley614]

Its very honest of you to admit your weaknesses, but cos you can admit them it means you can fix them if you want to...

Peolpe that are not self aware cant change but you can, you just need to get your head in the right place and you can do it all again. I would call a meeting with your staff and lay it all on the line, unless they step up they will be unemployed....

Wish I'd had that advice when everyone was judging me a couple of years ago. Now I think to myself your judging me on your potential, not mine!

[Dean Taberner]

Window cleaning can be very distressing at times.

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Window cleaning can be very distressing at times.

Yep, & you can be very boring stating the fact at every opportunity!

[bobplum]

I'm going to watch Port Vale instead and then drink, ill need a drink after that.

port who

[Dean Taberner]

Window cleaning can be very distressing at times.

Yep, & you can be very boring stating the fact at every opportunity!

Ill do something to excite you tonight.

[Dean Taberner]

I'm going to watch Port Vale instead and then drink, ill need a drink after that.

port who

The mighty valiants,

I'm there now waiting for the action to unfold, the fans are protesting against the board.

Being a port vale fan can be very distressing at times.

[Jackal]

get a van, with you and ur best worker, and take all the cream of than round,  all the best payers and sell the rest off,  

or as above, but get ur crap you dont want,  get a  van, get the other 2 staff give them a van and round as reduncy and say bye,  let them run on there own

my opinion is do what santa vader said in his first sentence,get rid of the 2 worst workers,1 van 2 of you sell the poop and earn a good wage for yourself,remember you should be earning alot more than your employees,just be careful they dont try to nick the work cuz doubt the 2 you sack are going be happy

[trevor perry]

only you know your current overheads and how much work you need to get through to cover these, write down all your overheads and i mean everything then look realistically on which of these you can get rid off, now again look realistically at any jobs that arent worth doing and increase price to make worthwhile if they dont accept increase then sell them if posssible or dump them, finally with work left see how many men needed to cover work including yourself get rid of workers you dont need then get on with it, if in 6 months you are still not making anything and cant trim your expenses anymore then im afraid its time to pack up, but hopefully you should start seing things working out and then build slowly and dont take on overheads or staff unless you really need them.

[Blue Frog Systems]

Take the cream and one guy, work that between the two of you.

What about subbing out the customers you dont want ? that way you will still make off them without the hassel of cleaning / collecting them.

[Crystal-clear]

sounds like you need about 700 more customers for the amount of staff,constant door knocking u need to have someone or 2 people doing about 40+ hours a week on the doors each

[David lyddon]

Richy,window cleaning by nature is a tough business to expand,by that i mean employing people to make you a goog living without being on the tools.
I tried it 20 years ago,never again,unfortunately we have to hire unskilled staff,mostly muppets.
Take care of yourself,keep it lean and mean.

[richywilts]

Cheers for all the advice lads I try to be a positive person usually and think we can work thru certain circumstances but I don't think short term il cope unless I take drastic action, there's a real negative vibe going round as if every one is just waiting for the worst and pointless working hard.im gna take me self away t,oz nite and have a long think before I go back

[birdymiller]

I have been on my own since new year, i have tried expanding over the years but it never worked out. Got around 800 customers and currently timing every job with a view to increasing prices. Probably going to take me around 5 weeks to get round, so can afford to lose a few after price rise.

[Klean07]

You need to be careful that your staff don't nick your work when you get rid of them mate.

If I was you I'd go to the pub, watch liverpool hammer stoke (fingers crossed), forget about window cleaning until tomorrow afternoon/night and chill. That's what I'm going to do anyway.

Dean.

Did you enjoy the game Dean? Yawn yawn 0-0!!

[colley614]

Cheers for all the advice lads I try to be a positive person usually and think we can work thru certain circumstances but I don't think short term il cope unless I take drastic action, there's a real negative vibe going round as if every one is just waiting for the worst and pointless working hard.im gna take me self away t,oz nite and have a long think before I go back

Good luck with it Rich and nice one for today bud, You helped me out there.

[richywilts]

No probs Keith hope they cum up clean

[colley614]

They're squashing my lawn at the moment. The missus will hit the roof when she gets home in a minute

[dazmond]

we are all cleaning windows to make money right?if your not making a good healthy profit at the end of the year after all expenses and taxes are deducted your doing something seriously wrong!!

work hard,keep expenses to a minimum and look after yourself first and dont take on employees unless you ve got enough work for them.keep it simple and reap the rewards and enjoy the fruits of your labour.

best wishes richy.hopefully youll be in a better position this time next year with a few lessons learnt.


regards



dazmond

[Erithwc]

I don't know what your situation is but if your business is strugling to make ends meet due to crap staff & work you need to cut the fat fast.

If a boat has a slow leak the boat will sink unless you throw the excess weight over board to gain you tiime to fix the leak.  

The question you need to ask your self is would your staff help you out when the business goes tits up and you have debt collectors on your door demanding money  

If i was in your position i would keep enough work for you and one employee and get rid of the lockup sell exess equipment and the work you don't want with the money you get from the sale of the work and equipment you could pay off the staff you don't need and have enough to have i bit left in the bank or pay off some outstanding bill.

good luck mate  

[Danny Guest]

How many customers do you have and what frequency I'm playing with idea of downsizing as really finding it difficult to progress business I feel I've hit a brick wall,I've tried to grow big but can't seem to motivate staff even tho I try, I don't think I have authority to manage I back down too much.im sick of staff wanting high wages and not being productive enough and it's really getting me down all they care about is themselves.

Since break in we prob had 1000 customers thru jobbing off messers and losing a lot after break indown to below 700 now not enuf for myself n 3 staff.

I offered to keep them all on butbegin canvassing tues n thurs evening with basic wage plus 5quid a customer they get on.

I don't think they are that motivated they just want to clean windows and do admin and really do not understand I can't keep them all on at present unless we do some serious rebuilding.

I've got to point I don't want to go to work now only option is going it alone and selling or jabbing off the crap work and rebuild steadily and grow when I'm ready,problem is I'm signed into 5 year lease on unit etc which I have another seperate business idea to utilise the space

You need to instill confidence in them richy. How can you motivate them if you are telling them the business model isnt working and things need to change. Thats bad moral mate.

You need to tell them they are doing a great job but you believe they can do better. Its ok for them to hear it from customers but think of what a boost it will give them from their boss. Massage thier egos and give them the recognition and satisfaction that they seek. Its human nature. You have to give to get something back

I think they have are looking after themselves but it may be bad energy coming from you. Be more positive and it will be infectious.

If i was working for you i would be thinking about my job security as you bounce from idea to idea. You need to get a clear vision and share it with your employees and get them to be inspired by it. Be a confident leader and use your poker faced instead of wearing your heart on your sleave.

Also think about why they are asking you for money. It sounds like your asking them to take on more responsibilities to which case i would demand higher wages.

Good luck
Danny

[Paul Coleman]

It's all sine the break in things were going ok except for van being off road two weeks before break in I just don't think they give two hoots if things go tits up I am pretty close to breaking point money wise

Having seen some of your posts over the past year or whatever, I did wonder when (not if) this point would be reached.  It always came across to me as someone expanding more quickly than he could cope with and spreading himself too thin by trying to diversify too much.  At first I thought that maybe the problem was mine because I don't do stress very well - a big reason why I've remained a sole trader and kept the jobs where I need to pre-notify the customer to a minimum.
I know you want to be off the tools but I'm wondering if your best route might be to sack the staff, sell all vans except the best one, sell all sellable work except enough for you to do a full round by yourself (400 customers should be more than enough) and keep the cream work for yourself.  I don't know what you pay for the unit but it might be a big drain for a sole trader.  What's the chances of sharing it with another window cleaning business - of course keeping your own work confidential?  Or maybe some variation on the above items as I don't know your exact situation.
It's unfortunate that understanding our limitations sometimes has to go hand in hand with ego deflation but hey, nobody's died.  If this is the worst you go through, you've done a lot better than I.

EDIT:  I wrote this before reading the other responses so I arrived at this independently from the rest of the tread.

[Paul Coleman]

I'm going to watch Port Vale instead and then drink, ill need a drink after that.

port who

The mighty valiants,

I'm there now waiting for the action to unfold, the fans are protesting against the board.

Being a port vale fan can be very distressing at times.

If you travel down with them when they get thrashed at Crawley, give us a shout and hook up if you want?  I've got a season ticket at Crawley (and none of that "Where were you when you were sh**?" if you please 

[edward1]

listen to what colley has to say m8.he is offering you some help .

[Danny Guest]

Richy
Your skills as an employer should be identifying what motivates your staff. People are motivated by different things, some money, some satisfaction and some for acceptance. You need to find what works for them and give it to them. Its more of an instinct and a balancing act that is essential to getting what you want

I ask my employees every week if they are happy, i ask them if they are ok, i ask about their families. I tell them about the big plans for the future and let them know they will be apart of them and they will benifit from the success of the company. I think big and my employees are excited by it. If they cant think big for themselves they certainly get excited by others that do.

Positive thinking brings positive energy. Negitive thinking zaps your energy and if transmitted to workers can by detrimental to any business.

I think you need to learn about human nature and study the art of motivating.
Unless you do you may never be able to successfully manage employees and reap the benifits of employing.

When you are in business you need to handle pressure. If you cant handle pressure get a job!

Danny

[Danny Guest]

we are all cleaning windows to make money right?if your not making a good healthy profit at the end of the year after all expenses and taxes are deducted your doing something seriously wrong!

I still struggle to believe how people can have difficulty running a window cleaning business when profit margins are so high. If a wc business is in a position to employ it should be done with ease. Tax deductions and NI contributions are not a problem if you put them aside every week.

I guess not everyone is meant to be in business and then theres those that have the potential and ability that just dont act on it.

[Frankybadboy]

richy do you still have the guy in the office working for you?

[TomCrowther]

My thinking about growing a wc business is to start the work yourself, build it up intil you can't manage on your own, get one part time helper, keep building, make the part timer a full timer and etc etc. As previous posts say, put the tax/ni money aside every month and you shouldn't have massive problems. If you go to step G without going thru B,C,D,E and F things will go pear shaped. Throw in a fire, bad weather and the stress levels pick up big time!
Having said that, I am still on A 

[Helen]

How many customers do you have and what frequency I'm playing with idea of downsizing as really finding it difficult to progress business I feel I've hit a brick wall,I've tried to grow big but can't seem to motivate staff even tho I try, I don't think I have authority to manage I back down too much.im sick of staff wanting high wages and not being productive enough and it's really getting me down all they care about is themselves.
Did you really believe that they would care about anything else?

Since break in we prob had 1000 customers thru jobbing off messers and losing a lot after break indown to below 700 now not enuf for myself n 3 staff.
Then  you have to lay soneone off

I offered to keep them all on butbegin canvassing tues n thurs evening with basic wage plus 5quid a customer they get on.
Lay someone off........you get the customers in....not them othewwise you will end up with crass custies
I don't think they are that motivated they just want to clean windows and do admin and really do not understand I can't keep them all on at present unless we do some serious rebuilding.
Until you have started to re-build  you can't afford to keep them on

I've got to point I don't want to go to work now
You have a problem then

 only option is going it alone and selling or jabbing off the crap work and rebuild steadily and grow when I'm ready,problem is I'm signed into 5 year lease on unit etc which I have another seperate business idea to utilise the space
can you sub let?

Richy I am now seriously concerned about you
The guy that helped you through the bad times you had a few years ago is he still with you? If so this is the bloke you need to be keeping hold of, but this time you HAVE to work it through with him.

Ditch all ideas of " extra's" and stick to the window cleaning side for at least one year and consilidate and build up again. Promise yourself that for one year you will not do your own head in with thinking of new ventures. You have to concentrate SOLELY on the window cleaning side. It's ggod to have ideas and be motivated, but you are doing yourself damage....so stop it now.
I am not getting at you or being sarcastic at all I am genuinely concerned

[richywilts]

richy do you still have the guy in the office working for you?

Yeah this the problem he came into do sales , and since the aftermath of both break ins he's not really got bk focussed on the sales and is Idley doing bits of admin, I've confronted him about smoking and making cups of tea too often and never picking up the phone to cold call etc but it doesn't seem to sink in he's in work 9 hours a day n it's frustrating me badly coz he says he doesn't have enuf time to do sales.iv turned a blind eye since break in but it's been n gone n I need things to begin happening now, came back in jan thinkin fresh start let's start smashing it, n he took first week off with virus and took two half days off last week for car problems and midwife appointment not the start I was after.since October we have been dumping customers by the handful and we lost a lot and it's got that out of hand now coz we haven't been replacing them.its been a really hard year iv had a baby girl last Xmas and iv had to take a lot of time off to support my girlfriend as my little girl suffered really bad stomach and diorreaha.we had a canvasser who got a shed load on for us in the summer and it's turned out to be a load of crap work and messers.i can hopefully turn this round it's just going to final chances this week

[roundbuilder]

Not being funny but if i was you id canvas much much more work. 3 staff is that 3 vans or 2 vans?. Im london and 700 high priced houses wouldnt cover work for a month for 2 vans we have near 1100 customers.
surely to cover everything you would need 200 a day cleaned minimum per van. with 3 vans on the road you should be laughing.
 i have 2 vans and 3 workers enough work for each van to do 1000 a week with a bonus if target hit.  they usualy do the target in 4 days but when crap weather etc they do the odd saturday to get there brucie which is an extra 50 notes in there bin..
keep going how you are as would be a waste of effort to downsize go and get enough work in so you can get a steady pattern of profit each month and you will be quids in. simple.
the more customers you have that are priced right then the more profit you will gain.

[Steve CM]

Rich the first thing I'd do is stop spouting on here as you will get abuse as well as advice. It's not rocket science and you need to be ruthless enough to cut out the dead wood. Sit back take stock and do what you need to do to earn money and turn the corner. If you ever want a chat give us a bell.

[Pure Shine]

had a similar problem years back change there pay struckture rather than a daily rate a percentage they either work and earn or earn nothing or like already suggested take ya best man sell the rest and make the others redundant trust me they are not sitting at home worrying one bit about your concerns ,bills, or worries

[Frankybadboy]

richy do you still have the guy in the office working for you?

Yeah this the problem he came into do sales , and since the aftermath of both break ins he's not really got bk focussed on the sales and is Idley doing bits of admin, I've confronted him about smoking and making cups of tea too often and never picking up the phone to cold call etc but it doesn't seem to sink in he's in work 9 hours a day n it's frustrating me badly coz he says he doesn't have enuf time to do sales.iv turned a blind eye since break in but it's been n gone n I need things to begin happening now, came back in jan thinkin fresh start let's start smashing it, n he took first week off with virus and took two half days off last week for car problems and midwife appointment not the start I was after.since October we have been dumping customers by the handful and we lost a lot and it's got that out of hand now coz we haven't been replacing them.its been a really hard year iv had a baby girl last Xmas and iv had to take a lot of time off to support my girlfriend as my little girl suffered really bad stomach and diorreaha.we had a canvasser who got a shed load on for us in the summer and it's turned out to be a load of crap work and messers.i can hopefully turn this round it's just going to final chances this week

if he aint earning you money mate then get rid,that be a big saving to start with.DEAD WOOD SIMPLE.

[Danny Guest]

I would try and address the problem first before firing.

Hes telling you he has no time for sales when hes job i take it is sales. Have you burdoned him with paperwork and admin duties?

If so get someone else to do your admin and utulise his skills in sales. If i had a top sales guy thats what i would want him doing 24/7. How can he build up good momentum by doing other tasks?

Another tip is praising him for work hes done well. If you really want to praise him give him praise in front of or to other people. Tell them hes the best and theres nobody who can sell like this guy. Really if you have to do it with tongue in cheek do it and you will soon have him doing overtime for nothing. Believe me ive done it!

If you dont want him maybe i could be interested 

Danny

[richywilts]

I don't wanna sound like he's a big massive waste of space coz he isn't n he basically got business bk up n running after second break in coz I suffered depression after it n cudnt focus I was angry n upset for quite a few weeks Chris and his wife sat there at home for hours on end loading hundreds of customer details on to a spreadsheet too send to round pro, this is why I have a dilemma, on one hand he's hard working and get things done which I detest doing but on the other he doesn't seem motivated he tends to get involved with lesser more simple tasks to keep busy which aren't benefitting the business so to speak.he had a decent routine going on before the break ins. I know it's down to me to give him specific targets now and deadlines etc he just doesn't seem to take note of what I want n chooses to do as he pleases

[Helen]

I don't wanna sound like he's a big massive waste of space coz he isn't n he basically got business bk up n running after second break in coz I suffered depression after it n cudnt focus I was angry n upset for quite a few weeks Chris and his wife sat there at home for hours on end loading hundreds of customer details on to a spreadsheet too send to round pro, this is why I have a dilemma, on one hand he's hard working and get things done which I detest doing but on the other he doesn't seem motivated he tends to get involved with lesser more simple tasks to keep busy which aren't benefitting the business so to speak.he had a decent routine going on before the break ins. I know it's down to me to give him specific targets now and deadlines etc he just doesn't seem to take note of what I want n chooses to do as he pleases

Ok, take off him what he shouldn't be doing as he seems to be going into a comfort zone of "simple" tasking. Do not ask him to do these tasks again or let him, you will have to do them for the time being.
Draw a line under the past, what has happened has happened and you can't change that, what you can change is the direction you are heading in now
He may have lost confidence in your business as he obviously has first hand knowledge in what is going on being that he is office based.
Get him back to what he should be doing, give him realistic targets and deadlines. Maybe offer him a realistic incentive for all new business bought in between now and the end of February.
It's going to be tough on you for a while, but you need to step up to the challenge of running a relatively easy to run type of business. Don't make it hard for yourself, keep focused on the window cleaning and nothing else, build that with firm foundations and the rest will follow, but NOT this year.
Get rid of those that don't want to take your business forward with you, they are not worth your time and effort.
Back to basics for you and keep there until it is firmly running, or you will end up with nothing which will be a darn sight worse than what it seems to be now.

[colley614]

The first thing I would do mate is get your business plan out sit down and have a good read through it. Get yourself in that frame of mind that you were in when you first started out and you said to yourself "yeah I can make a well better business than that fella from down the road." Then get your cash-flow forecast in front of you and see where your spending money where you shouldn't. Do a swot analysis of yourself and your business and see what you can change. If you haven't done these already that's where I'd start.

[Ian101]

Simple question ...... What do you think you should do ?

[richywilts]

done some figures today and we are down to

634 customers
value approx £67000 (going off rough £12 average house price)
715 more customers required to keep both vans fully booked with domestic work
i have gave a date of april 1st 2012 to get 715 new customers
average a week 65 between 4 people

these figures are without taking any new commercial work into play which we will be pushing massively

iv sat down with chris today and touched on what needs to be done going more in depth tomorrow,me and chris are willing to work hard for the challenge i do not however think i have support of the window cleaners!!!!! im going to take back some of the admin work to free up time for chris to cold call and make appointments.

we are waiting on a big amount of commercial work in april for a building company to begin and have a meeting with a lady from iss towards end of week regarding sub contracting so fingers crossed poop can begin to get sorted

[Catherine10]

Good news Rich, pushing forward one thing at a time.

[colley614]

Good luck with that mate. Keep in mind what I said to you though about subbing as I over commited and it cost me dear.

Good luck mate

[Sean Dyer]

done some figures today and we are down to

634 customers
value approx £67000 (going off rough £12 average house price)
715 more customers required to keep both vans fully booked with domestic work
i have gave a date of april 1st 2012 to get 715 new customers
average a week 65 between 4 people

these figures are without taking any new commercial work into play which we will be pushing massively

iv sat down with chris today and touched on what needs to be done going more in depth tomorrow,me and chris are willing to work hard for the challenge i do not however think i have support of the window cleaners!!!!! im going to take back some of the admin work to free up time for chris to cold call and make appointments.

we are waiting on a big amount of commercial work in april for a building company to begin and have a meeting with a lady from iss towards end of week regarding sub contracting so fingers crossed poop can begin to get sorted

if you have 67k a year at 12 average you really dont need 4 guys and a sales person and yourself. You could be turning that amount over with you and one guy. Or just one van with 2 guys. Dont bank on commercial you havent got yet it might never materialise and your back to square one. Either work in with your best lad. Or if you still want to get off tools then Keep your two best guys in one van. And you start to build up van 2 to employment level. But Theres No way 67k is giving you all a wage. With No over heads tax ni or vat taken into account its a little over 11k each. Not much fun for anyone.

[Pope vader]

what wages are you paying richy

[andyatkinson]

Im not being funny Richy, but how much admin work is there? It cant be that much, I think your sales guy is making excuses "admin" instead of focussing on the job in hand and getting busy, and you are making excuses saying that you will take it back to free his time up, if your situation is as dire and depressing as it sounds, get out on the tools all day every day, even if theres no work for you to do, finish the work that bit quicker and then you and the lads all get out canvassing and leafletting together. Drop this "admin" mentality and graft and do your admin in evenings and weekends until your out of this pickle.
All the best.

[CLEANCARE WC]

if you only have £67k pa I would immediately get rid of 2 people if not 3

[andyatkinson]

agreed

[richywilts]

yep i fully agree with what everyone is saying to be fair im holding out this week to see if theyre is an improvement in the staff and see if theyre motivated or not, if not then im seriously considering going it alone, or reducing staff by one or two people, those numbers do not include commercial we do each month either as im not sure what them figures are.

basically we took on a new round system called round pro and it is very tedious and a lot of faffing round compared to window cleaner pro which we are going to go back to cut time doing admin and end of day etc, iv spoke to chris today and he reckons he does 3 hours collecting over phone a day which i think is bullsh*t coz that shud be bringing in200-300 a day

[Sean Dyer]

yep i fully agree with what everyone is saying to be fair im holding out this week to see if theyre is an improvement in the staff and see if theyre motivated or not, if not then im seriously considering going it alone, or reducing staff by one or two people, those numbers do not include commercial we do each month either as im not sure what them figures are.

basically we took on a new round system called round pro and it is very tedious and a lot of faffing round compared to window cleaner pro which we are going to go back to cut time doing admin and end of day etc, iv spoke to chris today and he reckons he does 3 hours collecting over phone a day which i think is bullsh*t coz that shud be bringing in200-300 a day

Take control of your business back back richy and drop him or at least relegate him to sales

And you need to cut staff by two minimum , and then you can pay your best 2 guys to go out in one van and do the roughly 1400 -1500 a week that you still have

This will pay you and them

And give you loads of free time to canvass and push your work

If not this mess will continue , hope you dont mind me saying...

Good luck

[andyatkinson]

Richy, i dont think you have the luxury of time, they have not done you any favours (except chris once or twice it sounds) you cant financially tread water for ever, cut back and WORK yourself on the tools with 1 guy, admin evening and weekends, and NO sales person, grow consistently and properly until you can afford all that, but dont delay your decision

[Pope vader]

having just read a few of your post richy,  i think that you want to be the CEO and sit in a office all day and have people working for you, but the way you are going you wil be bankquprt within 12 months, as you seem to want to keep all the staff on, to do all the work, why you and the admin guy play office,  

if you keep the staff on then YOU and ADMIN GUY  get out knocking every day,  and then when they have no work get them out knocking

you remind me of a wc down here,  he is not a wc he is an entrepreneur,  every time you see him, he has a other brilliant idea to make millions, but wont put the work in, he use to employ lads to be wc  give them 30 custy and tell them to build a round for him and  get 33% of what they made,  they all left and took his custys,

[andyM]

At the end of the day Richy as things currently stand you are overstaffed and must of been for quite some time.
Listen to your head and not your heart.

[Dave Willis]

You've got the perfect job right in front of you. You and a mate - one van. No admin spongers just the two of you cleaning windows you could be taking 50k for yourself out of that turnover. ARE YOU NUTS?
It's all there in front of your eyes - never need to canvass either.

[andyatkinson]

50 K richy. 50 K

[andyatkinson]

no vat no stress no hassle 50 k

[Frankybadboy]

value approx £67000 -4 people=16,750each simple maths it dont add up,for all the stress you are in.


£67000 is roughly 2 blokes in 1 van and that aint working hard.

[wfp master]

sounds like you have to much on your plate. time ti change.

[richywilts]

I knew things were getting quite bad at beginning of December but with Xmas coming up I didn't feel it would be worth canvassing as u wud just get a load of messers wanting windows cleaned for Xmas then Chris was off first week bk and two half days last week so not really had a good chance to sort things out, I'm quite shocked were down to 634 customers tho down a third basically from October last three months have been real nightmare I'm gone do what I have too now to sort this mess out

[Pope vader]

r they on a 4 week, 6 week, 8 week cycle

[CLEANCARE WC]

Richy what about you and best worker in a van. and make your admin/sales guy part time...BUT GET HIM DOING WHAT YOU TELL HIM.

[richywilts]

There on a six weekly we do have a bit of commercial too that iv not accounted for in that 67000, I'm kickin arse tomoz il giv u all an update!!!

[Pope vader]

that is only 100 a week,  this is only one mans work,  i would love to work for you, would spend most of day doing nothing for easy money

[Paul Coleman]

My take on it isn't just about number crunching.  Health (both mental and physical) MUST come first.  Without health you don't have a business in any case.
I once knew a man who had a Rolls Royce.  I didn't envy him one jot.  You see, unlike other people, I knew what he had  been through to get it.

[Pope vader]

My take on it isn't just about number crunching.  Health (both mental and physical) MUST come first.  Without health you don't have a business in any case.
I once knew a man who had a Rolls Royce.  I didn't envy him one jot.  You see, unlike other people, I knew what he had  been through to get it.

that is true, but from richy posts, all i can get from it is   he has enough work for 1/2 men (inc him)  he has a office manager, who is on easy street, to many staff who must love working there, and every week he has a differrent idea on about how to make his business better, carpet cleaning/ shops etc,   he dont seem to want to up set lads by sacking them, but he will when he goes bust, as that is the way he is heading,  what i dont get is that an office manager or him dosnt have a copy of all his jobs,( custy) on a lap top or memory card,  that is kept seperate from every thing else,  he has had 2 breakins  which can be a problem, but i wouldnt be paying the lads to paint it and then take weeks doing it,  they should be out wc earning money, as that is there job,   

what i would do is get richy and office man out knocking, and when there is no work get the lads out knocking,  they dont like it, sack them, as  when it all goes tits up  and it will,  they will say  bye,

[richywilts]

today the two window cleaners have canvassed and got 7 new jobs on so far, and chris has booked in 9 fascia gutter jobs off our customers by phoning round the database, i know everyone is saying reduce workers etc but i know we do not have a problem getting work in when we put minds to it thats why im willing to give them all a chance to improve effort and motivation and prove to me we can get back to where we were, i feel guilty laying lads off when it wasnt there fault we had break in, as for backing up we did have a memory stick but unfortunately it was left in the computer the night of second break in!!!!!

[CLEANCARE WC]

today the two window cleaners have canvassed and got 7 new jobs on so far, and chris has booked in 9 fascia gutter jobs off our customers by phoning round the database, i know everyone is saying reduce workers etc but i know we do not have a problem getting work in when we put minds to it thats why im willing to give them all a chance to improve effort and motivation and prove to me we can get back to where we were, i feel guilty laying lads off when it wasnt there fault we had break in, as for backing up we did have a memory stick but unfortunately it was left in the computer the night of second break in!!!!!

Richy mate you sound like a real decent guy and I apologise for busting your balls in the past, but even if you do up your turnover substantially you have too many staff my friend, I hope it all works out.

[richywilts]

todays figures are 16 new fascia and gutter jobs worth £1200

17 new houses at average of £12 6 weekly worth £1800 a year

two new day nurserys at £25ish worth £445 a year

about 3 grands worth of new business today as well as lads doing window cleaning

going off these figures i think the lads have shown motivation lets hope it carries on

[Pope vader]

hope it carrys on