Alex Wingrove

  • Posts: 1435
Some advice please (will this work?)
« on: January 15, 2008, 10:51:38 am »
Hello everyone first post in this section

I advertise lightly for my services which include patio and drive cleaning,

I had a customer leave me an email the other day asking for her patio to be cleaned, i left her a rough price because i have only ever done it once before, combined with con clean and gutter and fascia, so it worked out well.

Basically been looking at pressure washers, do  go for a 13hp 3000psi 15l/h and hope to get more work later on in the year as more ads come our, or buy and iferor machine and use it for this job and maybe a few more that come along.

Its a patio so i just clean it and clean up after, that sounds about right to you who know what you are doing?

Thanks

Alex


Oh yeah and i have been looking through previous posts, it annoys me when someone comes along and just asks

Richy L

  • Posts: 2257
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2008, 11:25:02 am »
if i was you, I wouldnt bother with a little machine. It'll take forever to clean a patio. My machine is similar to the one you are looking at 3500psi, and i wouldnt want to use anything less powerful.
It will only be worth the money if you advertise for it, leaflet drop, and go canvassing. because if you're spending all that money you want to get a good return on it.

Where are you thinkinf of buying one from?

martin19842

  • Posts: 1945
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2008, 11:32:32 am »
hi there

that must be 15 litres a minute.

there is a theory about kit in general,

think about what your going to do with it, and then buy  a machine from the next rung up the ladder, this then allows you to expand later,

that said, if you buy a bigger machine, then you will write off a larger amount in value in your accounts.
a lotr of people look at plant cost in different ways.

example

piece of kit costs £6000 say, with a 3 year write off staight line depreciation, not taking into account first year allowances, then your offset is £2k per year.

therefore you need to achieve at least that amount of work to cover your annual plant cost.

i hope that makes sense.

the other way to look at is, buy the largest piece of kit that you can afford, then this gives you a larger potential client base, therefore potentially more work, and more money.

in our case, we use a smaller machine as we only get ad hoc jobs, no advertising, and then when we get our specialist larger jobs, factury unit, walls, roof, etc, we either bring a larger trailer mount machine in, or sub it out.

regards

martin

Jonathan Spencer

  • Posts: 315
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2008, 12:31:21 pm »

hi first of many posts I hope

I was thinking the same roughly the same thing.  What is the minimum cost (or spec) I should be looking at to clean patios/driveways.  I do not have loads to spend so looking for the most economical.  I currently windowclean part-time and looking to add a bolt-on so to keep working when it is this wet.  Any advice will be much appreciated.

Oh one last thing I do not get my driving licence back for a year  :-[.

Jonathan


martin19842

  • Posts: 1945
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2008, 12:42:14 pm »
hi there,

isnt a more seamless bolt on, fascia, soffit, gutter cleaning, and conservatory cleaning.

the other suggestion may well be commercial window cleaning, fascia cleaning etc.

if we are in for an economic tightening this year, thenwouldnt the sale of an additional service such as mentioned be easier to convert than, the introduction of a new seperate service.

also marketting for more window work, must be financially more cost effective than new marketing and additional new kit.

just a thought

regards

martin

regards

martin

Jonathan Spencer

  • Posts: 315
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2008, 01:39:16 pm »
Hi Martin

Thanks for your reply it is just that I have noticed a lot of the driveways around my area look like they need doing and it can be done in the rain.

I will probably take your advice and concentrate on the windows I just get frustrated when it is this wet.

Regards

Jonathan

Richy L

  • Posts: 2257
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2008, 02:26:03 pm »
although a lot of drives NEED cleaning, it doesnt mean someone will pay you to clean them. Most people dont care enough. I would say i have a success rate of 1% maybe less when it comes to canvassing pressure washing.
I get far more work from fascia/gutter and con roof cleans than pressure washing peoples drives.

lets face it, for pressure washing you need to fork out about £3k for a half decent machine minimum, but for fascia/ gutters/ con roof cleaning all you need is a WFP and elbow grease. You dont even need pure water.

I would only look into going into pressure washing if you want to do more commercial work pressure washing which is NOT easy to find!

Alex Wingrove

  • Posts: 1435
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2008, 04:42:22 pm »
IM not necessarily looking to gain more pressure washing work, but the only advertising i do at the moment is from the not in slips i put though the door and a few parish mag ads,

got my yellow pages ad in for may, so work will trickle in from that, this job is priced between £60-80 havn't given them a def price, but they accepted,

looking to get the machine from ebay, seen some 3000psi ones for just under 400.

and i do fascia gutter and cons, i earn quite well out of them,

steve doyle

  • Posts: 287
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2008, 04:49:11 pm »
I personally would prefer to buy a better quality second hand unit than a new poor quality one. Ive seen lots on ebay that look good specs for £300 ish but i suspect they will fail pretty quickly (imports from china?) . My set up is a tech-clean. if you could find one of these on ebay and any decent fsc (whirlaway etc) you are half way their.

If you go down this route i think you could have a good basic  set up for a little over £1000 maybe less. This will get you going without commiting masses of cash. But this kit doesnt come up so often (usually oct/nov best time) so you need to take your time to put together a set up at a low price.

For the chap with no license, forget it till it comes back, the proper equipment is not portable, you need a van. Using a small carry type  pressure washer will take you a day to do what we do in 20 mins, you simply wont make any money at it  :'(

Alex Wingrove

  • Posts: 1435
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2008, 05:27:55 pm »
that last statement surely has to be an exageration, im not looking to spend 1000's on something that i dont think i will be concentrating my time on,

i wanted something that will work well, thats why i looked at the portable ones, you really think they are not worth spending the money on?

steve doyle

  • Posts: 287
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2008, 05:43:27 pm »
not sure we are talking about the same thing, to clarify;

Most/all of us pressure washers on here use an engine based pressure washer (approx 13hp, 15ltr per min)
We also use flat surface cleaners 16 inch+
 
The cost new of this gear is about £1000-£1500 for the pressure washer (engine and pump on a wheeled trolley) and £300-800 for a flat surface cleaner (rotary cleaner).

This is what i see as a basic set up to do the work your talking about.

are we both on the same page, is this the sort of equipment you are looking at or are you thinking about a plug in electric one?

steve

Steve N

  • Posts: 25
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2008, 06:07:09 pm »
Hi,
You can start with a honda 5.hp and turbo nozzle and do a good job, or a 13.hp with rotory cleaner and do the job much faster, if you can only afford a 5.hp then go for that.
I do agree, don't buy the chinese honda look-a-like machines for this kind of work they don't have the power and won't last long.


Richy L

  • Posts: 2257
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2008, 06:57:57 pm »
it not all about the psi mind. The flow rate gives the nest aidea to what the machine can do. Mine is a 12 or 13ltrs/p/m machine. which is good enough for any job i do

myvanwi

Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2008, 08:28:00 pm »
What does WFP mean in window cleaning circles?


myvanwi

Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2008, 10:12:46 pm »
So you dont use ladders at all now when cleaning conservatory glass and facias/guttering. How much do you charge, is it per hour or by job? Thankyou for answering my question.

Alex Wingrove

  • Posts: 1435
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2008, 07:17:17 am »
i was planning to buy one of them Honda look a like things, they seemed quite reasonable

i wanted a petrol/diesel one purely on cants always have access to customers supply,

secondly this isn't my main income, and i don't want to go and spend 1000's on something i might never get a return on

there isn't any options available around the 300-400 pound mark?

steve doyle

  • Posts: 287
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2008, 03:00:46 pm »
I dont think you should buy what you have been looking at, i think you would end up wasting your money when it breaks. The only thing i can think of is to find a smaller 5hp+ quality machine but second hand. You might get one just within your budget. Other people on here might have another idea?

As far as getting the work you are half way their if you have an existing customer base so you should expect a reasonable response when you add the service. Take a couple of before and after pics on your first jobs and keep them in a folder to show customers


steve

drive surgeon

  • Posts: 2812
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2008, 04:26:40 pm »
a friend bought a fake honda machine off ebay and it was sent with no details and it would not start, was a fake one from china but was from a uk seller, stick to genuine products.

drive surgeon

  • Posts: 2812
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2008, 04:27:24 pm »
how do you guys clean gutters, do you get all the leaves and crap out?

Alex Wingrove

  • Posts: 1435
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2008, 05:21:57 pm »
how do you guys clean gutters, do you get all the leaves and crap out?

three ways

like i do get the ladders out and climb up,. but there are alot of people who dont even bother doing that anymore, afraid i guess

gutter vac, speaks for itself

or gutter lance, pressure washer plus lance blast the rubbish out


OK so you reckon spend a bit more money and get a lower ended honda?

So whats the hourly rate for pressure washing, i know i wont be upto speed, but i dont think i should be earning less that 40p/h?




Richy L

  • Posts: 2257
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2008, 05:31:44 pm »
how do you guys clean gutters, do you get all the leaves and crap out?
i find the best way to clean the insides of gutters is to do it the old fasioned way. ladder and a bucket. Itd dirty work, but good little earner on the side.

guttervac can have problems with it, but definatly better for higher gutters.
pressure washing just moves the dirt around rather than cleaning it!

So you dont use ladders at all now when cleaning conservatory glass and facias/guttering. How much do you charge, is it per hour or by job? Thankyou for answering my question.

Hi myvanwi,
I use a ladder to get a better position when clean con roofs, but i just put it on the side of the con, or up against the gutter. that way you can get some pressure on the oof when cleaning it. for fascia, it depends how bad it is. i either use a pressure washer, wfp or a ladders. sometimes all three if it needs it!
And i always charge by the job.

Hope that helps :)

steve doyle

  • Posts: 287
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2008, 06:15:04 pm »
"So whats the hourly rate for pressure washing, i know i wont be upto speed, but i dont think i should be earning less that 40p/h?"

Depends on what area your in? £40 is a bit high to aim at if you havent got the best kit or experience imo, but i think you should aim to do £20 ish at first.Bare in mind your customers wont pay you by the hour they will look at the job and decide how much they are willing to pay for it to be cleaned. I guess it depends on what results you get with your kit and how long it takes you, people who earn 250+ per day do so because of speed and fitting in more jobs in a day.

Also keep in mind the setting up time and travel, people (myself included) say things like "I just made £150 off cleaning a blockpave drive and it only took me 1 hr to clean  and 20 mins to re-sand"

great £110 Per hour, ish.

We forget to add;
10 mins each way x8 (2 quote,2clean,2 sand 2 for money).
Time to set up and pack up (30 mins+).

so 1hr 20 is now well over 3hours, approaching 4hrs!

We also forget to deduct costs;
Fuel
sand
wear and tear on machines ,van etc
insurances advertising and other running costs

So true figure is probably somewhere in the £20-50ph range?

And then dont forget the quiet times when your not working!

so what looks like people might be making huge amounts per hour on the face of it usually is far less in reality.
 
So If you can start with a basic kit at a low cost and earn £20 ph in your pocket, your not working for nowt!



drive surgeon

  • Posts: 2812
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2008, 07:15:50 pm »
steve is right be carefull, dont go spending a fortune until you have the work in guaranteed, most businesses fail as they get loanss and all sorts to by all the gear, forgetting they need to have work to pay it all back. ;)

drive surgeon

  • Posts: 2812
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2008, 07:16:23 pm »
what gutter vacs do you use?  omni pole?

Alex Wingrove

  • Posts: 1435
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2008, 11:24:36 pm »
yeah i appreciate all the other things involved with earning money its not just 40p/h every hour you work and you end up with all that money it your pocket,

i would never price a job up at an hourly rate, but i dont want to be earning less than 30p/h simply because i have a window cleaning round where i earn that,

buying all the fancy equipment has never been for me, i spend what ive got not what i havnt

Richy L

  • Posts: 2257
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2008, 11:30:02 pm »
i think every jet washer has done some jobs where they're are skipping back to the van after the job is done with a big cheque in hand, and some jobs you hate doing because they are a nightmare.

For example:- i did a job the other day £150  and it took two full days! not a good earner! would have earnt more window cleaning!! but as my dad says its all swings and roundabouts

Alex Wingrove

  • Posts: 1435
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2008, 11:34:18 pm »
Yeah thats true, but i prefer not to have bad experiences,

thanks for the advice people ive got some ideas and think ive made a decision, just have to see how the next year goes.

Richy L

  • Posts: 2257
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2008, 11:40:34 pm »
"but i prefer not to have bad experiences"? ::)

You have to be realistic mate.
If you can earn £40 p/h+ every job and get full time work, then you're the luckiest pressure washer around.

But if you get a small machine, you will never be worth £40 p/h

Alex Wingrove

  • Posts: 1435
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2008, 12:03:15 am »
Im not saying i want 40p/h all day but for extra jobs other than what i am there for then i like to have a set wage, i dont earn less than that for gutters cons etc etc,

i know full well i cant earn that consistently all day everyday

but if i price it from 60-80 then it should take me 1hr 30mins to 2hrs,

i will keep you posted see how it goes

you dont use chemicals do you just straight up power, what about lichen?

steve doyle

  • Posts: 287
Re: Some advice please (will this work?)
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2008, 12:54:00 am »
I dont want to question your thinking on this but without powerfull gear and a set up like i suggested and as richy quite rightly says, your not getting £40ph (because job will take longer).

now if you can get a steady £30 ph doing windows then stick with the windows.

If as i suspect, you have some spare time you could be doing drives in etc then fine but £20ph is realistic.
If its a choice of £20Ph or nothing, dont pick nothing, lol.

I guess it depends on your situation and if you can pick and choose the work. Yes, no chems unless to spot treat. See past threads for specifics, its all their.

steve


P.s richy,
your old man work in a fun fair?  ;D