[dustycorner]

Hi ,

Phone no for Acas is 08457 474747, also email if you want a copy of a letter i sometimes use titled Notice of unsatisfactory performance. It allows you to sit down with employee prior to going as far as disciplinary action, state your concerns and the action needed by the employee to bring their work upto the required standard.

Cheers Mark.

[CMS]

I know that you can terminate employment without reason for an employee employed for less than 2 years.   Be careful though, you cannot employ someone else to fill that position for some time (think it is 6 months)

I'm sorry but that is wrong. You CAN fill the position.

You can get rid of someone without any reason during the first 12 months (it used to be 2 years but now its 12 months). They CAN NOT go to an Employment Tribunal unless they suspect that there is either Sexual Discrimination or Racial Discrimination involved.

Those two are the only exceptions.

Trust me - I'm so sure that if it costs you money I'll pay! ...

[JJdomestics]

Hi

Thaks to you all for your really good advice. She has phoed in sick today so we shall see what happens in the next few days. I have to cover a house in the morning which she should have done today. This client used to be very friendly towards me as we have never let her down even when we were stuggling for staff and we have always catered for her needs, since our cleaner has been going they have stopped talking to me and it is very awkward when I am in the house. Our cleaner has said that hey have been talking about me and saying that they no longer like for some reason which she wouldn't say. My attitude back was, I wasn't put on this earth to be liked by everyone, so I don;t hink that was the reaction she was looking for.

As for keeping her away from other staff, we do. We did introduce her to another girl who is a casual cleaner for us but she was very rude and just walked away.

When we do eventually get rid of her, I know she will try to clain on our insurance for a a fall she apparently had at a clients house. Our health and saftey was all up to date and from what I can make out she was carrying too much down the stairss and fell down the last two steps and twisted her ankle. She did not loose any money as she was able to continue working but I know she will try to clain. I feel like she has us over a barrell.

[busydaffodil]

Then as CMS Above says, You can get rid of someone without any reason during the first 12 months. They CAN NOT go to an Employment Tribunal unless they suspect that there is either Sexual Discrimination or Racial Discrimination involved.
get rid.   
If you know shes going to claim, then whats the point of risking more lost customers, risking customers believing her lies as she is obviously talking negatively about you to them, and risking her obtaining all your customers details & planning to set up alone.

[Phoenix]

Did she fill out an accident report?

Were there any witnesses?

Did she see a doctor?

Did She have any time off work?

In my opinion as she has'nt been with you for 12 months, it is quite simple to get rid of her, use the excuse that you have lost clients and that you haven't got enough work for her.  Get her out of your life.  What does her contract say, have you gaurenteed hours for her?  If your H&S was up to date and she had read your risk assessements then you won't have anything to worry about.

Good Luck

[Paul Coleman]

I know that you can terminate employment without reason for an employee employed for less than 2 years.   Be careful though, you cannot employ someone else to fill that position for some time (think it is 6 months)

I'm sorry but that is wrong. You CAN fill the position.

You can get rid of someone without any reason during the first 12 months (it used to be 2 years but now its 12 months). They CAN NOT go to an Employment Tribunal unless they suspect that there is either Sexual Discrimination or Racial Discrimination involved.

Those two are the only exceptions.

Trust me - I'm so sure that if it costs you money I'll pay! ...

Quite right about filling the vacancy.  I think the 6 month rule referred to was in the case of redundancy rather than a sacking.  Even then, there are exceptions I believe.  N.B.  The rules I refer to were old ones and may have changed.  The 6 month rule re redundancy was toprevent an employer using bogus redundancy as a way of effectively sacking someone without good cause.  I can understand that too as some employers would abuse it.

[JJdomestics]

Thank you so much for all your help. I think we are going to loose her hours so we can't offer anymore and off she goes onto the next silly employer. If she clains then she claims!! I've gone past caring, infact I would rather take the risk of her sueing us for every penny than work with her for another week.

Thanks again

[dustycorner]

Hi JJ ,

there is some very good advice being offered, but seeing our employment law is stacked in the employees favour i would suggest you do everything by the book including following your disciplinary procedure .

I'm speaking ffrom personal experience. several years ago i sacked a man on the spot after he admitted to sexual harassment.

He subsequently got citizen advice bureau involved and took me to tribunal for unfair dismissal ( because i never gave him a disciplinary meeting ) we eventually settled out of court the dirty numpty got £1800 of my hard earned money . that was the best financialoption for my business.

My solicitors told me although i dismissed him for good reasons, i didn't take him through the disciplinary procedure , an exprnsive but a valuable lesson learned.

Cheers Mark.

[DP]

Dusty
Well your surprised me with that one. I would have thought sexual harassment would have easily qualified as cause for instant dismissal (unless it was verbal rather then physical).

[dish]

I'd just back up everything said about going by the book.  Even employees in their trial or probationary period have peculiar employment rights.

Seek advice from someone who knows about employment law.
 
Even going through the 1st, 2nd, third warning system etc. you could still end up getting 'done' and finding yourself having to pay out a substantial amount - even though its the employee creating the problem.

Don't go for the redundancy option either without advice - it is guaranteed to cost you and you could find that when you do recruit someone else, she can come back at you and get even more.

I would recommend a system of regular reviews and appraisals for all staff - that way you can show that you are monitoring her work and supporting her, giving her constant opportunity to 'be good' and avoid disciplinary procedures.

[dustycorner]

Hi DP .

In all i had five or six differents statements about this including one lady who stated  he  followed her into my stockroom and touched her breast, makes my blood boil just to think about the slimy toad.

Cheers Mark.

[House Buddies]

Hi

I have had a similar situation happen to me, I employed 32 ladies once doing private domestic work, I gave one of them a role as supervisor after 2 years service - what a nightmare, I dont think she did a days work after that and she lost me 12 clients along with another lady. I made them redundat after consulting a solicitor ended up going to tribunal and cost me £6000 not forgetting my time.

I would go to acas and follow discipline procedures to the letter, TRY TO AVOID SOLICITORS IF YOU CAN, it will cost you £1500 straight away.

I also had a 3rd incedent when a trusted employee who was a great cleaner telephoned me to say she was going self employed and was taking all the clients she cleaned for with her, even though there are clauses in her contract and client contracts to prevent this, I immediatley telephoned my solicitors ( A different solicitor than the first) who advised me to sack immiediatley for gross misconduct! ended up costing me £4000 even though I followed the letter of the law and even offered her the right to appeal with a meeting. She got free solicitors (the same as the last two cleaners used-funny coincidence)

So that is £10k through no fault of my own, lets just say I was p****d off.
I have since franchised the business out and use owner operators, the biggest employs 5 people.

I now employ 1 lady It has taught me to nip a situation in the bud straight away, never trust anyone! and I will never give a cleaner a free reign with clients keep changing them around and keep an eye on them, the clients are just as bad.

I have also set up a direct maid program where I have 2 self employed cleaners and they virtually get there own business in a postcode area and I get them clients and they give me a share of profits, at least they take ownership of the business and do a better job.

If you need any advice from someone who has been bitten then pleae email me1