[Chris R]

Hi,
about 5 months ago all of the talk on this site was about the "new" recoil 3  HWE machine from the states.
http://www.cross-american.com/recoil.htm
Did you buy one, and how are you getting on with it?
Honest answers please, because I am in the market for a new electric "truck mount".
Did you buy the booster machine?
Did you buy the water and waste tanks?
How do you heat the water and do you find all the power cables to be a pain?
Thanks
Chris

[Dynafoam]

Hi Chris,

I don't know if you read my "Recoil Diary", posted elsewhere, which reported my early impressions of the machine.

Since I first used it, it has not so much as hick-upped. though the performance does not match my other (own-build) machine, for day-to-day cleaning tasks it does what I ask of it.

I do not use it as a truck-mounted unit as:

• I do not have sufficient space on the van for the tanks.
  
  A truck mount is totally unsuitable for most of the work that I do.

By locating the unit sensibly I have seldom needed to  use more than 75ft of hose - most domestic cleaning of 5-6 bedroomed houses can be done with a 50ft hose.
At 75ft it will clearly out-perform a 'standard' portable and at 100ft there is really no comparison.

I did  not buy a booster unit because if I wished to work at 150ft or so I would be using the more powerful machine anyway.

I have for some time worked with machines that required several power leads, so there is no difference there.

I use a 500psi Steamate for water heating, which copes well with the flow-rate of the excellent Recoil 400psi pump.

In conclusion I can commend the machine as an excellent product.......... But if I wanted another truck-mounted HWE it would not be electrically powered. When the location of the machine is dictated by the nearest parking place then IMO there is a requirement for for a degree of redundant power which currently requires the use of an internal combustion engine.

Of course there is the possibility of regarding the Recoil 3HP as a 'demountable TM' but the space and weight loss to the van is a price that I am not prepared to pay.

John.

[Ivar_Haglund]

Recoil with booster is great

ad gas heater

even better

run from the truck with booster and gas heat and tanks in the truck.

never a problem

machine does a days work and then some


IVAR

[Fintan_Coll]

I know a Bane costs a lot more but say how does a Recoil compare with a Mega Port in overall performance. Pity they cannot fit a water heater and some useful guages on the recoil.

[Chris R]

I also wonder about the comparison between a bane truck mount and a recoil?
Why does no other manufacturer use the bane vac motor?
Chris

[Martin_Bignell]

Dear All,
Just had a look at the Recoil website and noted that it has fan vacs installed 2x3 stage. Is this correct?
If so it is never going to out perform any  Bane Clene which has a displacment blower as a tm should.
You can improve the Bane even more by increasing the pulley size on the motor. And they never break down.
Regards Martin.

[Mike Halliday]

its hard to compare a bane blower & portable vac motors.

I've tried both  and when you feel & hear the suction on the waste tank the 2x3 stage seems to be more powerfull, but what you feel is what you get.

but with the Bane blower the suction at first seems quite low but it you keep your hand over the vac port you can feel the vacuum power increasing, if the vac releaf did'nt release then the bane would blow the fuse.

you can improve the vac power of the bane by changing the pully size or plumbing in a 3 stage vac I did this and still ran it on one power cord.

to beat a bane you need to add an extra 3stage so you have 3x3.

Mike

Ps; I can't see what all the fuss is about with the Recoil, all they've done is add another vac motor,   big deal  :

[Ian Gourlay]

What has puzzled me about John and his Recoil is If he cosiders his self build machines work better Why buy the Recoil?

[Ken Wainwright]

Running off topic slightly, but extended the thread raised by the inclusion of BaneClene.

To be perfectly honest, from my experience with a colleagues Bane, I have to admit that I am not particularly impressed by the performance. I know there are two specifications of blower used, and his is the higher spec.

Without intimate knowledge of the workings and power of the blowers, my thoughts are that the stated figures would be the highest possible from that component. I am reliably informed that the Bane's blower is only working at a fraction of it's potential, the limiting factor being the availability of power (13 amps electric). If the same blower were attached to a suitable petrol engine, I would presume that it could then perform at it's best.

I also presume that BaneClene have researched and devoloped their equipment and components to offer the best compromise between performance, durability and safety. By altering the pulleys, as has my colleague also, you are increasing the performance with a small increase on the electric motor loading at start-up. Logic would suggest that this would move the durability factor of the motor towards the upper levels of operational acceptable performance.

Don't get me wrong, I think that the BaneClene is a terrific piece of equipment and, for the type of work I do, would be a very serious consideration if I were to go T/M. But using my, sometimes flawed, logic I can see drawbacks. As far as vac performance goes, working side by side with my colleagues Bane at 150' and my Alltec Pro Plus at 25', my porty produced MUCH drier carpet on low profile nylon loop tiles.

When I saw Nigel demonstrating his Recoil3 at A&M earlier this year, I was impressed. At 75ft it was comparable with my Alltec at 25ft. At 125ft with the booster, it was outstanding.

The Bane clean is essentially a truckmount with the facility to go portable. The Recoil 3 is a portable with the potential to go truckmount.

Does anyone else have an opinion or experience to support (or oppose) my thoughts and logic?

Safe and happy cleaning:)
Ken

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I think Mike has got the best idea and has 'upgraded' his Bane to meet his needs, but you have got to remember the point about reliability, my old Bane never broke down it was I believe about 12 years old and 3rd hand to me it's now in Hull with Mick Toomey ( poor old Bane ) but an electric TM saved me £70 a week as I now have a Hydramaster Boxxer and although I am delighted with it approximately £3500 a year comes out of Mrs Ashmore's Meadowhall fund.

Shaun

[Mike Halliday]

I think Bane build their machines for reliability first, so sacrifice performace, if they fitted a smaller pully to increase vacuum it would exert more pressure on the motor so would affect its livespan.

plus they build them for the US market which I don't think has the same electrical capacity, if they had they could fit a second  3stage vac ( but again this goes against their 'built to last' image)  


Mike

Ps: Ian, thats a very good question

[Dynafoam]

What has puzzled me about John and his Recoil is If he cosiders his self build machines work better Why buy the Recoil?

Ian,

It was a question of van-space.

My own-build took up so much space that I constantly had blowers etc. on the passenger seat/floor.

A bigger van than a Transit 120 was not an option because of access/parking, so I wanted a machine that would free up space on the van but still have acceptable performance for run-of-the-mill cleaning - the Recoil 3HP fits that requirement very well.

John.

[Dynafoam]

Chris,

I do not wish to tread on too many toes and become engrossed in argument with Baneclean owners but will say that when I had an on-site demonstration of the top-of-the-range Bane a few years ago, the demonstration team (and my customer) agreed that the results produced by my portable of the time exceed the Bane by a clear margin.

The portable I was using was roughly equivalent to the Recoil. In fairness it should be said that my machine was located outside the door of the hall whilst the Bane was thirty feet away, next to my van, in the car-park.

John.

[Dave Parry]

Shaun, Like you I have a Boxxer, however I have spent £ 340 on fuel over the last 2 months, and have been quite busy. it is using 3 L/hour.  I reccon I'll spend less than £ 2000 / year. You must be doing a lot more work to use that amount of fuel.

[Derek]

Hi Guys

This may be a daft question but please excuse an old man...

Those of you using fuel driven truck mount units does the unit itself come under the emissions (polution) guidelines same as the vehicle engine in the MOT test procedures?

Derek

[Ed Valentine]

( Hope this thread isn't deleted as a sales thread because IMHO, it is only an answer to a stated question)


In 1978 we introduced our CA-4000 XPS that included a #3 Sutorbilt Vacuum Blower. It was a very reliable and good system, at the time. And, those heavy blower pumps would last vertually forever too.

However, comparing it to "other designs" and the technology available today, there was no other option but to discontinue that particular unit. Just no comparison in performance (I believe as my good friend, John Bolton may have alluted to).

And, as John Bolton understands being the great engineer that he is and has always been, never forget gentlemen, that simply throwing components together will not necesarily produce the most "efficient" results. If that was the case, we'd all be using the same wheels, toggle switches, pumps;   you name it.

John recently made a comment that all should consider:

"Not all portables are the same"
"Not all TM's are the same"
"Not all operators are the same"

Boy, is he ever right on those statements.

You may or may not take my word for it however, there truely is a big difference between performance---and just numbers. That is called: "Engineering and design".

That is just the way I have seen it over my 33 years.

Good Fortune to all;
Ed Valentine
cross-american corp.

[Mike Halliday]

Ed,   I get  deja-vu every time I read your posts, most of them say how long you've been making machines & its all in the engineering.

how about some specific details, what part of the Recoil engineering makes it so effective and better than other portables.

Mike

[Ken Wainwright]

Will anybody be showing the Recoil 3 at Carpex?

Safe and prosperous exhibiting:)
Ken

[Ed Valentine]

Mike;

Thank you for your comments which are very much appreciated.

Unfortunately, whenever I (try to) help or add my comments on most any bb---not just this one---, I am always walking a very narrow line and must be careful "not to imply" that I am selling.

Unfortunately, many times manufacturers, dealers, etc are held to a much different standard because of board rules------AND how the moderators interpert them-----unfortunately. (and I'm not speaking about a sales pitch either). Had that problem of interpretation on the cleantalk bb. First time I have ever been deleted from any bb that I can remember (?).

Therefore, I will only approach the gate , shake your hand, but  will not go through.

In terms of engineering and design, I will not (understandably ;I hope) "tell all" because what happens in the bedroom is our business and not that of our competitors who are also listening for ideas.

Unfortunately, we do have many examples of this "borrowing concepts and cloning" from several over here in the USA. And, that alone, Mike, makes one appreciate the real value of small business (manufacturing) and those real innovators that give all the Big Boys their ideas (engineering) while they are basking on the sea shores somewhere. I'll bet John Bolton understands what I have said since I am sure he has had many, many of his concepts, "cloned" without a hand shake.

We work extremely hard and have field tested items for many, many years, not to have anyone else in our business steal them overnite. Right or wrong, thats the way I see it.

Ken;

Yes, the RECOIL-3HP is scheduled to be at the show; as well as myself if I can make that happen. And, if I do, I hope to see all of you----------------at the local Pub. Heck with the show!

Good Fortune to all Brits;
Ed Valentine
cross-american corp.

[Ian Gourlay]

If John cant get all his equipment in a Transit I must be seriously under equiped bang goes Mrs Gourlays trip to the McCarhy Glen O utlet Centre  next time we are in Halliday Country.

[clive]

Hi Shaun,

But can you earn more than  £3,500 per year using your boxxer as opposed to your bane?
Hope you are keeping well.

Cclive

[clive]

Sorry, I meant an extra £3500.

clive