[DASERVICES]

Only with Anchor housing 

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/News/news.asp?ID=4125

Could this be the start of it!!!

[Tosh]

From the link:

Rochdale News
 
Window cleaners' ladders are not safe say Health and Safety bosses 
 
The contracted window cleaner at a Halifax Road block of self-contained flats for the elderley will soon no longer be using one of the traditional tools of his trade. Bradford based housing company Anchor Housing, who run the Howarth Farm Way row of flats have declared that they have to put the window cleaning contract on the flats out to tender due to new Health and Safety legislation.

A letter from Anchor to residents at Howarth Farm Way states that: "The window cleaners are now not allowed to go up ladders to do the windows."

A system called 'Reach and Wash' will be implemented by window cleaners at the flats, which are just two storeys high. This system uses a water fed pole to clean the windows, meaning that ladders will become obsolete for window cleaners. The high reach system eliminates health and safety concerns over the safe use of ladders because the equipment can be safely operated by a single window cleaner from the ground.

Residents at the retirement home have been asked to vote for one of the four window cleaners who have tendered for the contract. Residents have been given a list of the contractors and the amount that they have quoted to do the window cleaning.

Local Councillor Jean Ashworth, whose mother is resident in the self-contained flats, said: "The world is going mad. Were will it end? Will fire fighters not be allowed to save lives if they need to climb a ladder? Will we need to be risk assessed before we leave our homes for work? This is a load of nonsense. I know window cleaners who have been going up their ladders for years without any problems."
 
 

[simon knight]

Local Councillor Jean Ashworth, whose mother is resident in the self-contained flats, said: "The world is going mad. Were will it end? Will fire fighters not be allowed to save lives if they need to climb a ladder? Will we need to be risk assessed before we leave our homes for work? This is a load of nonsense. I know window cleaners who have been going up their ladders for years without any problems."
 
 

I like this Jean Ashworth...sensible lady!!

Ladders being banned?....in yer dreams.

[tatman]

what a load of old bull. Window cleaners can use reach and wash ok what about roofers,  ariel fitters,  painters,  window fitters,  builders etc etc etc etc. The latest to have a new ariel fitted you have to hire a crane eh?? ladders will never be banned if they are ill still use them anyway.

[Alex Wingrove]

rubbbish

[M & C Window Cleaning]

I've just taken on a new customer because his w/cleaner told him he was packing up because ladders are now banned.

I guess he hasn't read the health and safety guidelines, or doesn't understand them.

[AuRavelling79]

Counciller Jean Ashworth had some more 19th century wisdom for the gathering crowd.

She said that she loved the Dark Satanic Mills of Lancashire as they provided a place for gossip for the old people as they trudged on the treadmill powering the overhead belts (which occasionally snapped taking out a worker or two on the way.)

But then she had to go and tell her six year old grandson to get on with his chimney cleaning or he'd have a damned good hiding and end up in the workhouse.

But as she got into her sedan chair carried by two immigrant coolies she did find time to shout "Don't vote for the NHS! If poor people can't afford hospitals then they can always have a pauper's grave provided for by the city fathers."

Silly, backward-looking cow!  

[Sir Squeaky]

Well I hope if they ban ladders they compensate window cleaners for the hundreds of pounds worth of work they lose by using wfp.

I started wfp of my own accord (well, injury).
If I'd known it was going to obliterate my round, and generally make everyone miserable and untrusting, I may have thought twice.

[simon knight]

Gotta say Malc that for one of the more literate people on this site you do talk a load of rubbish at times.

[Sir Squeaky]

 

[Ravensford]

From the link:

 This is a load of nonsense. I know window cleaners who have been going up their ladders for years without any problems."
 
 

The nonsense is in the last sentence.

Whatever your own circumstances the figures speak for themselves.

I suspect that every w/c here that has done trad work has, at some time, has taken unnecessary risks or had the misfortune to have had an accident. Ladders used correctly are fine but I believe that most people have probably done something that is unsafe when up against time. The company are rightly covering their own backs.

Dave

[Tosh]

If I'd known it was going to obliterate my round, and generally make everyone miserable and untrusting, I may have thought twice.

Squeaks, (rog)

Is that honestly how you've found using a WFP?  I'm really surprised.

Has anyone else had this experience?

[brightnclean]

Well I hope if they ban ladders they compensate window cleaners for the hundreds of pounds worth of work they lose by using wfp.

I started wfp of my own accord (well, injury).
If I'd known it was going to obliterate my round, and generally make everyone miserable and untrusting, I may have thought twice.

Squeaky.

Unless you believe in the tools that you use your customers never will.. fact!

You only have to look at your back posts to see where your problem lies. I am NOT getting into a WFP/trad debate here because both have their place in my business. It's all about attitude. If WFP costs loads in lost revenue then why did mine almost double within 6 months of going WFP? Yes I had a bit of worry when I first introduced WFP but I never let my customers see that. Before anyone starts I use BOTH methods and both do the job they are designed to do so this isnt in any way the usual WFP v trad stuff.

I am not so sure that ladders can be used as and when we want to. I was cleaning a big local plumbers supply shop today and along came a cherry picker to take a guy up to 1st floor window level to take down a temporary sign made of tarpaulin I think held up by 6 screws. 5 mins work max.  Out of curiosity I asked why the cherry picker?  By the way it also had it's own operator with it from the hire company and I was told that it was because of the working at height regs.  That job could easily be done safely using a ladder.

I think the wording to the effect that "Working at height should be avoided wherever possible" kind of says it all really.

[Sir Squeaky]

Well I hope if they ban ladders they compensate window cleaners for the hundreds of pounds worth of work they lose by using wfp.

I started wfp of my own accord (well, injury).
If I'd known it was going to obliterate my round, and generally make everyone miserable and untrusting, I may have thought twice.

Squeaky.

Unless you believe in the tools that you use your customers never will.. fact!

You only have to look at your back posts to see where your problem lies. I am NOT getting into a WFP/trad debate here because both have their place in my business. It's all about attitude. If WFP costs loads in lost revenue then why did mine almost double within 6 months of going WFP?

I do believe in it actually.
The large majority of the time I do a fine job with it.
On repeat cleans I'd compare it to anyone's work.

I had a few windows with spots today, but that was an 8-weeker hidden amongst trees, and it was minging.
I squeegeed off the water, and perfect windows.

It's just that my areas are full of miserable old bags.
I haven't done bad jobs, they just don't like the idea of it.
To them it looks half finished.

[williamx]

Well I hope if they ban ladders they compensate window cleaners for the hundreds of pounds worth of work they lose by using wfp.

I started wfp of my own accord (well, injury).
If I'd known it was going to obliterate my round, and generally make everyone miserable and untrusting, I may have thought twice.

If you believe that wfp does not clean as good as you were, when using ladders.  why don't you give your customers a discount.

So if you think that 25% your work would be better cleaned if you used your ladders why not drop the price by 25%.

That should make the "miserable old bags" give you a tooth-less smile again.

[williamx]

From the link:

 This is a load of nonsense. I know window cleaners who have been going up their ladders for years without any problems."
 
 

[
And every window cleaner knows, some window cleaner who fallen from one and either been injured or killed.

Proper training and maybe a ladder license is needed.

[Sir Squeaky]

If you believe that wfp does not clean as good as you were, when using ladders.  why don't you give your customers a discount.

Oh William, I'll quote myself...

I do believe in it actually.
The large majority of the time I do a fine job with it.
On repeat cleans I'd compare it to anyone's work.

Comprende? : 

[Sir Squeaky]

If I'd known it was going to obliterate my round, and generally make everyone miserable and untrusting, I may have thought twice.

Squeaks, (rog)

Is that honestly how you've found using a WFP?  I'm really surprised.

Tosh, yes most of the time.
It's annoying and demoralising.

I like using it, I know I do a good job, but they're dropping like flies.
I'm sure there will more yet.

I've lost an entire £150 day today.
I'll explain in a separate thread later...

[Adam Boss]

HERE WE GO AGAIN !!, would H&S do a ladder exchange scheme if they were to be banned.
Regards.

[NWH]

You must have the worst luck out of all of us Squeaky,everytime i read your posts you`ve lost work.

[AuRavelling79]

Gotta say Malc that for one of the more literate people on this site you do talk a load of rubbish at times.

My wife agrees with that 100%!

And so do I! 

Oh, and none taken by the way!

[Sir Squeaky]

It's Bristol thing Malc.

[brightnclean]

Hmmmm I think I can see your problem Rog.

I wasnt saying that you dont do a good job with WFP. I do think that you are now stuck between a rock and a hard place now mate 

Maybe it's time for you to look further afield for "quality customers" and get away from the miserable brigade. There are areas that I won't go near at all coz I know that they will moan and whinge and probably want it done for peanuts.

I do sympathise with you Rog. This whole thing must be getting you down badly. I would hate to see you eventually give up (Even if it's just for your errrr  interesting posts here) 

If your customers wont change.. change your customers Rog. O.K. it will take a while but not too long and you will start to make the real bucks and maybe even enjoy it mate.

[AuRavelling79]

Roger - how did you prepare your customers for the fact that they were going to have you do them wfp?

[DASERVICES]

I might be wrong on this but would the housing association have to insurance cover for workmen that work on their premises. If so as we know the price of insurance has gone up and some will not cover ladder usage. So maybe this has effected their desicion.

[SherwoodCleaningSe]

I just feel sorry for the trad guy that has lost a good contract just because he uses ladders.  But I suppose if the contract was that good he would have gone wfp.

Simon.

[Neil Williams]

I think the wording to the effect that "Working at height should be avoided wherever possible" kind of says it all really.

Spot on, and as the HSE hasn't made an overall ruling they can't pick and chose which bits they want to enforce and which area they think they can use it in.
We're WFP and I don't have a prob with ladder users providing they are used correctly, and no one is stoping painters etc from using them.

[williamx]

I might be wrong on this but would the housing association have to insurance cover for workmen that work on their premises. If so as we know the price of insurance has gone up and some will not cover ladder usage. So maybe this has effected their desicion.

I think it could be that because you are doing work on behalf of the housing associations, they have to make sure that you don't have any accidents, if possible.

So if you use a ladder incorrectly and have an accident, then they are liable, even though its was your fault and not theirs.

[macmac]

If I'd known it was going to obliterate my round, and generally make everyone miserable and untrusting, I may have thought twice.

Squeaks, (rog)

Is that honestly how you've found using a WFP?  I'm really surprised.

Tosh, yes most of the time.
It's annoying and demoralising.

I like using it, I know I do a good job, but they're dropping like flies.
I'm sure there will more yet.

I've lost an entire £150 day today.
I'll explain in a separate thread later...

If i were you mate i'd put the ladders back on the van & use both methods, at least for now. losing money at that rate's gonna break you.

tony

[cvdewsbury]

i currentley do work for the said company,and actually spoke to the health and safety officer re ladder use...as from next year no ladders are allowed on there sites.on my nxt visit i have to tie ladders onto the eye bolts in the walls or use a ladder tray FOR HARD GROUND. ON SOFT GROUND the HSO was happy in us using ladders as they are all fitted with safety spikes...
whilst there the HSO ordered the manager  take down all pictures off the walls and flower displays from tables as they was seen as a fire hazard.also come xmas time no decorations or cards can be put up...this is only for communial areas,again fire hazard.

[Mr.G]

Is he mentally ill?

[simon knight]

Gotta say Malc that for one of the more literate people on this site you do talk a load of rubbish at times.

My wife agrees with that 100%!

And so do I! 

Oh, and none taken by the way!

...and none meant

[xxmattyxx]

whilst there the HSO ordered the manager  take down all pictures off the walls and flower displays from tables as they was seen as a fire hazard.also come xmas time no decorations or cards can be put up...this is only for communial areas,again fire hazard.

Have flowers and pictures in communal areas a habit of spontaneously combusting then?

[Helen]

As much as H & S CAN be taken too far sometimes, for once it is good to see an authority practising what is being preached for once. There are too many "authority" types spouting rules and regulations and then not following there own rulings. We use both WFP and Trad methods. Years ago we did work for a company who said "we do not allow ladder usage on our sites, great wfp being another tool we use we had no problem, or at least thought so. They renaged on payment, so off to court we went and obviously stopped doing work for them. We kept an eye on what was going on and yes they used a "trad" business to follow us!!!!? We caught up with him one day and found that his prices were lower than ours, and if the powers to be showed on site, he had to stop work and be discreet! So again price had dictated circumstance and overuled H & S regs. We got paid and heard that the trad guy stopped work for them took them to court aswell for non payment.

[Helen]

Retirement places are very tight with H & S, they have to be. We have retiremnt areas on our books and the rules they have to follow are quite stringent, but when you think about it, are probably right. No gas equipment whatsover in the flats or to be used on site, no trip hazards etc in communal areas, no fire hazards etc in communal areas, no flower tubs/ornaments by doorsteps, the list is endless, but it is trying to protect the occupants

[NWH]

1 of the main reasons i went WFP was the fact that i do 4 large houseing association contracts and the manager told me that i would not be allowed to use ladders on site,she gave me 6mths to convert before there new policys started.