[Steve Carpenter]

Hi Damian,

Your missing my point and the fact that CFR’s tooling is unique and patented. It enables 'unlimited' additional passes whilst having total fluid control, something that is not possible with conventional tooling even when used with truckmounts or high performance portables. I know plenty of people with both TM’s and HP Hwe’s who’ve still shrunk carpets. This is impossible with CFR’s tooling unless you break the hydraulic seal and lift the wand of the carpet!

Hi Rob,

Cibenze, a national contract carpet care company took on CFR distribution from the original European master distributor MDS in Holland. Amtech came in to the frame much later and took over the UK distribution and then sold the system through Franklins, who were a sub-distributor of their products for the north/midlands area. This relationship also turned sour and subsequently introduced another Microsplitter to the market.

To some though the system is still ahead of its time!

Cheers

Steve

[carpetguy]

Whether you like it , or not, scientific teory does'nt always work, in practice, or can be proven to be wrong !

Steve

I was one of the Franklin customers, who bought the machines and product, also the little Klanz, which I wish I still had in my arsenal.

[Damian]

Steve,

No i am not missing the point at all, the operator in charge of the "said tool" ie-wand has the ability to control solution flow-with the the trigger! Then afterwards if he/she decides it needs a drying stroke/s then so be it. Like i said more vac motors=more vacuum.

Damian.

[Damian]

Whether you like it , or not, scientific teory does'nt always work, in practice, or can be proven to be wrong !

Steve

I was one of the Franklin customers, who bought the machines and product, also the little Klanz, which I wish I still had in my arsenal.
[/

If that was aimed at me Robbie then yes science always works chap! lol xquote]

[carpetguy]

Obviously Damian, you are of the " closed mind "set and even if you saw thesystem being demonstrated, you woul refuse to believe your eyes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My spine and pelvis............according to science, were rendered useless, having compressed and the vertebrae become fused.............fortunately, I found a wonderful gent who refused to accept that science was always right and had my mobility fully restored.............that was 5 years ago

[Steve Carpenter]

Hi Damian,

I should’ve explained a little more clearly. CFR’s tooling is enclosed with both the solution chamber including nozzles and vacuum chamber positioned at such an angle that when in contact with textiles a hydraulic circuit is completed. The soultion is injected into the fibre and simultaneously  extracted at the same time. This ‘patented’ design effectively seals the tool onto the surface with just one vacuum, creating a vortex effect, thoroughly washing the fibre without moisture penetrating the backing of carpets or the foam cushioning of upholstery, regardless of the number of cleaning passes used.

If you were to try and mimic the number of passes that can be made with conventional carpet and upholstery tooling, then you would flood a carpet or leave a suite wet for weeks.

As Rob has said seeing is believing.  Whilst the CFR tooling design is patented, 2 other manufacturers offer similar high-flow moisture control tools, 1 being Hydramaster with their DriMaster tooling and Steamway with their Hydro Kinetic tooling.

These shouldn’t be confused with the internal jet tools that have the solution nozzle situated in the vacuum chamber. As the solution is applied vacuum pulls the solution away from the surface so very little moisture actually comes into contact with the fabric.

Cheers

Steve

[Damian]

Robbie you daft sod!-If you had taken time to know me rather than try to persecute me as you have tried before then perhaps you may have realised that im quite knowledgeable on the old cleaning game!! Closed mind-erm no-I look at everything with a magpie's eye! However i dont appreciate someone trying to pull the wool! I realise its a closed shop in "ere" and also understand that there is a clique going on but the question over cleaning with a single vac motor will always in my mind have a laughable effect!!

ps-if you play nice i may post piccies of my new shop! lol

Damian.

[Steve Carpenter]

I should’ve added that with CFR’s tooling design, the solution trigger can also be held permanently on during vacuum extraction whilst it’s in contact with the surface. You can even hold it in the same place for as long as you like without fear of flooding. Again, something that’s simply not possible with conventional tooling.

With coventional tooling however, vacuum performance does indeed compensate, so when used with truckmounts and HP portables with 2,3 or more vacuums they will recover excess moisture and i.e. more soil

Regards

Steve

[Damian]

Steve-i was gonna quote you but its beginning to sound like a plug to your machine? Hope im wrong? However, i understand what you are saying and yes if it works for you then i'm pleased, BUT the reason of my question is quite simply-more vacs=more power-SIMPLE! If you get some numb nut opening the trigger whilst sitting there then yes-the carpet may shrink, but the system you are telling me of-(which i have seen before-many times-i hasten to add!!) works for some but not hardened op's.

Damian.

[carpetguy]

Damian

Closed shop................clique................Steve is part of the Solutions team, which I'm banned from, but a well known and respected gent in the business.

God knows where the clique idea stems from, sure there are a few of the regulars on here and I'm not one, who have got to know each other through trade meetings / training venues, but they are very independent

The host is Express Cleaning ( Mike Boxall ) who leaves it to moderators to police the postings although he could easily take advantage of his position and promote his Prochem and other ranges.

I come from a practical background, more engineering ( practical ) than scientific ( theoretical )

[Damian]

Robbie

Isaid closed mind-not shop. I dont care at all what people do or say-way too busy with other projects! although i do have fond memories of you surmising i was a-how you put it-"high heeled stetson wearer" haha i did laugh at that-past 3am! Was very busy then and no time to talk.

Damian.

[carpetguy]

Incidentally

You should know that Steve is no longer connected with CFR and so he's not really being defensive, just informative, however..............no matter how informative you are, or how good a communicator you are, if a mind is closed, to reality and can only see theory, you might as well pack up and go home.

Scientists should be inquisitive and open to alternatives, otherwise they would work in a vacuum and I don't mean a triple three stage.

goodnight

Just caught your last post about cowboys ...........wonder what gave me that idea !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Damian]

Robbie
behave yourself! Its obvious you are going to pick an argument at the slightest excuse-you sure you dont drink? lol I am only questioning facts that i percieve to be open to debate.

Damian

[Damian]

Robbie

Now now dont get personal! lol Like i said before call me what you want-including rawhide-then i will have great pleasure in showing you to my customers and businesses. There is no call for animosity at all x

Damian.

[Liahona]

I think to a degree all machines work although some just get better results than another.  That can be down to the operator and or the machine.  To keep it simple as too much maybe has already been said.  If the cfr machine is or was any good then why oh why will they not enter into a clean off under test conditions against other machines that are on the market.  I think deep down we all know the answer to that question because we all know it will not out clean just about any other machine out there.  Save the low moisture machines, cos they don't show up at clean offs either.  Does make you wonder why?? Best, Dave.

[Derek]

Dave

The cfr has been successfully demonstrated (by Steve Carpenter) at several events alongside other machines including truck mounted units.

Although Steve is in the process of moving on in his business activities he is extremely knowledgable on cfr technology (and many other systems for that matter)

You are absolutely correct when you state that it is the technician who makes a machine work effectively...or not

Regards

[Liahona]

Derek, then I stand corrected.  Having said that I have organised 4 clean offs in California where I still have one of my cleaning business's (?) and cfr declined to attend any of them.  When I moved back to the UK I tried to get a clean off with cfr (dont know who I spoke with) and they declined again.  Even texatherm and chem dry turned up.  They then went away with their tails between their legs but at least they showed up in the first place............ If all machines, from vlm to lm, basic portables to upgraded portables and then on to a high end truck mount were the same price to purchase?  Then what do you think people would buy?  I very much doubt it would be a cfr.  Paul has a different machine to what he was using and now finds no comparison to that which he was using.  Yet at the time he would swear he was cleaning well before hand. Best, Dave.

[Alan Brooker. Aqualink Carpet Care]

Wow, this subject's had some posting!

I second everything Steve said about the cfr system. Didn't know you'd moved away from Amtech. What you up to now?
I'm waiting for my 1200psi 5gpm stinger to wing its way over from the states. I'm shoe horning it into a new ninja base with some other trick toys.
Dave, if I had the time  I'd willingly compare cleaning results. I guarantee there would be NO difference.

Signin' out
Alan

[carpetguy]

Alan

Curious about your amendments to the Ninja. can you expand a little............like you, I've always tried to improve on any tools I've ever used and got some interesting results.

Daves idea of a " cleen off " is to get a carpet thats been dragged around a bus station or similar and have various systems compete..............but not sure if they all have to use the same products, etc

I read a report some time ago, where a particular product, used with a rotary, got a better result than a t/m, so there really is no black and white.

Great to see real life debate, excluding one contributor. No apologies Damian and I don't drink, but can't resist adding to peoples knowledge when I perceive a gap !

[Damian]

Robbie

No apology expected nor required, it is after all a forum where debates sometimes get heated but there is hopefully no malice intended. Sometimes it is how we learn each other on the merits and benefits of various equipment etc.

By the way i own TWO of these and i have just closed this one for the day