Cellulosic browning cock up !

« **on:** October 07, 2015, 12:24:19 pm »

Hello there folks
whilst cleaning a 100% acrylic two seater sofa a couple of weeks ago I had a spill of Formula 90 on a 80/20 Axminster carpet
I extracted as much as possable and placed a dry pod over the effected area, but a few days later the customer called to say a yellowish stain had appeared ! I went and viewed my Cock up to see if I could rectify the problem ! I sprayed down Chemspecs Browning treatment but that hasn't made any difference, so I am going back this afternoon and probably use a reducing agent and see if I can get a result !

Stuart

« **Reply #1 on:** October 07, 2015, 06:05:19 pm »

Stuart,
Try 2 scoops of Prochem Fibrebuff and one scoop of oxibrite and add some fibre shampoo. If it's browning it should do the trick.

Simon

« **Reply #2 on:** October 07, 2015, 06:23:35 pm »

Also Prochem Browning Prescription. I've had more success with that than anything else but it has it's limitations with heavy browning. Eg it seems to deal with light cellulose browning caused by damp flooded carpets but not with more heavy browning.

« **Reply #3 on:** October 07, 2015, 06:41:21 pm »

Do as Simon said its better than the browning prescriptions.

« **Reply #4 on:** October 07, 2015, 06:49:57 pm »

This rug was used in a bathroom and so was really badly browned over a long period of time.
This picture was taken after cleaning.

And it was then treated with Fibrebuff and Oxibrite in a shampoo.

Beautiful

« **Reply #5 on:** October 07, 2015, 07:48:45 pm »

Thanks for your advice Simon,
I went back to look at the carpet this afternoon and rinsed out it with Hiation cotton cleaneras as it has a reducing agent
I then applied Chemspec Browning remover, it looks a hell of a lot better, just a very slight yellow , you have to strain your eyes to see it ! I just hope the customer dosent see it tomorow ! Lol
if I do get a ring back I will take your advice and have ago with your procedure

Stuart

« **Reply #6 on:** October 07, 2015, 07:51:50 pm »

Simons method could be a good way or you could try spray and go, I'm hoping that it's not the dye from the hessian backing which may have wicked up I tried to remove that from a carpet where another local cleaner had opened his gate valve on a carpet while not positioning his bucket properly.

Shaun

« **Reply #7 on:** October 07, 2015, 08:00:38 pm »

I wouldn't dream of telling anyone how to run their business (nowt to do with me), but this could be avoided by using a waterproof groundsheet placed under furniture whilst cleaning - and a small one placed under the machine in case it leaks or whilst dumping.

Basic stuff chaps.

« **Reply #8 on:** October 07, 2015, 08:05:59 pm »

Shaun,

That's what jute browning is!!!! A dye called legnin being realise from the jute backing through over wetting which then wicks to the surface - jute browning, which is what Stuart is reporting.

Simon

« **Reply #9 on:** October 07, 2015, 09:08:46 pm »

Kev
you are right in saying that if I had placed a plastic sheet on the floor I probably wouldnt be in this position now, I always used to use coton drop sheets over plastic tarpaulins, but after purchasing a Saphire hand tool and not getting any over spray I stopped using them, he ho I've learned my lesson the hard way, hopefully I wont have a claim against me and the carpet will be ok
but if thats the case and I have to replace the carpet and take it on the chin

stuart

« **Reply #10 on:** October 07, 2015, 10:02:53 pm »

Not always Simon the browning can occur from the dye from the hessian which wicks up or it can be browning from too much moisture 'aired' this happens on curtain linings (as an example)

Shaun

« **Reply #11 on:** October 07, 2015, 10:33:27 pm »

Shaun,
That's cellulosic browning that you get in fabrics, we're talking about jute browning in carpets. But as long as Stuart gets it sorted, what's it matter.

« **Reply #12 on:** October 07, 2015, 10:45:24 pm »

But the title says cellulosic browning? Perhaps we are going into cross purpose but one is easier to cure than the other...usually.

Shaun

« **Reply #13 on:** October 07, 2015, 11:44:31 pm »

Hope you get it sorted Stuart without having to go through your insurance.

« **Reply #14 on:** October 08, 2015, 10:35:54 am »

Stuart,
Just a thought. It might be worth trying to replicate the problem on another similar carpet sample and see what it takes to solve it, rather than keep trying different products on the one you have damaged, which may make matters worse.

Simon

« **Reply #15 on:** October 09, 2015, 01:54:42 pm »

'All' Vegetable (plant based) fibres have the potential to release lignin dye...Jute is just one of them

« **Reply #16 on:** October 09, 2015, 05:11:57 pm »

Well I haven't had any phone calls so hopefully its sorted, tbh you could hardly see anything by the time I left the customers house on wednesday and ive fowarded the photo to a few carpet cleaners and they couldnt see it either, so that and the fact I misted on Chemspec browning remover, Ithink it may have done the trick
thanks for all your coments guys, I do take negitave criticism kindly because as I said in the first place it was my cock up
I will be more carefull next time and not be complacent when using low moisture hand tools

Stuart

« **Reply #17 on:** October 10, 2015, 10:10:27 am »

Hi
Can you tell me the best way to apply Chemspec Browning formula to get the best results ?
I cleaned a customers conservatory carpet the other day. Wool mix, cream in colour which had a yellow /brown stain caused by a leak from the roof.
After cleaning and drying out the stain is more noticeable.
The stain covers an area approx 2ft x 2ft
Any help would be appreciated. I said I'll go back and have another attempt but dont want to make it worse !

« **Reply #18 on:** October 10, 2015, 12:50:13 pm »

The stain is more noticeable be caused you have cleaned the area around it.
I have chemspec browning and Prochem Browning Prescitption, but the best of them, in my opinion, is a mixture of Fibre Buff and Oxibrite in a shampoo.
It could also be that there are other contaminants coming in from the roof leak that could, make the stain permanent. Also there is the possibility that the customers has used off the shelf stain removers which could have set the stain.

Simon

« **Reply #19 on:** October 10, 2015, 04:40:49 pm »

Quote from: stuart_clark on October 09, 2015, 05:11:57 pm

Well I haven't had any phone calls so hopefully its sorted, tbh you could hardly see anything by the time I left the customers house on wednesday and ive fowarded the photo to a few carpet cleaners and they couldnt see it either, so that and the fact I misted on Chemspec browning remover, Ithink it may have done the trick
thanks for all your coments guys, I do take negitave criticism kindly because as I said in the first place it was my cock up
I will be more carefull next time and not be complacent when using low moisture hand tools

Stuart

You shouldn't really be hoping its sorted stuart, you should be ringing them to make sure its sorted. well thats what i'd do anyhoo. Food for thought.

« **Reply #20 on:** October 10, 2015, 05:53:32 pm »

That depends on how you left it with the client.
If you've left when they seem content with the outcome and said, ' if it still not right, give me a ring.'
This leaves the ball in the customer's court. What you don't want to do is keep reminding them of the problem, which, for all you know is now sorted as far as they are concerned and if it is not they will let you know - because that is what has been agreed to.
If on the other hand you've left knowing that the issue wasn't fully resolved, then the ball is in your court to keep on trying to resolve it.
There is no difference in the quality of service provided , you're still attending to the problem and the first way leaves the customer in control of the issue, exactly as it should be and if they don't ring you back, they knew that they could, as that is how you left it with them.
If you told them you would ring them in a few days and didn't , that's naughty.

Simon

« **Reply #21 on:** October 10, 2015, 08:00:05 pm »

I'd still ring.

« **Reply #22 on:** October 10, 2015, 08:17:06 pm »

Inexperience versus experience, -grasshopper

Old Chinese proverb: 'Never Stoke a fire that may have gone out.'

« **Reply #23 on:** October 12, 2015, 07:10:00 pm »

whats the chemistry of the fibre shampoo, oxibrite and fibre buff?

most debrowners are acidic - the fibre shampoo is buffered neutral, oxibrite is sod percarb as far as i am aware which accelerates akaline cleaners and oxidises and fibre buff is acidic

so i know it works but how?

« **Reply #24 on:** October 12, 2015, 07:16:42 pm »

Quote

Inexperience versus experience, -grasshopper
Old Chinese proverb: 'Never Stoke a fire that may have gone out.'

Never a truer word said

« **Reply #25 on:** October 12, 2015, 07:50:56 pm »

Quote from: CleanerCarpets on October 12, 2015, 07:10:00 pm

whats the chemistry of the fibre shampoo, oxibrite and fibre buff?

most debrowners are acidic - the fibre shampoo is buffered neutral, oxibrite is sod percarb as far as i am aware which accelerates akaline cleaners and oxidises and fibre buff is acidic

so i know it works but how?

Ah hell , il take a stab at it , the fiber buff adjusts the fiber shampoo's buffer to about ph6 and also reduces the alkalinity of the oxibrite , the fiberbuff has alcohol with good penetrating properties . So you have mild acidic conditions and the release of h202 .??

I would imagine Haitian cotton cleaner although different would be doing similar ...as in PH 6 and peroxide release ??

« **Reply #26 on:** October 12, 2015, 08:59:26 pm »

Well after ringing mrs customer back and establisheing she wasnt completely happy with the browning removal, I tried the oxibight,fibrebuff shampoo mehod but unfortunately this still hasn't rectified the problem, so iam handing the problem to my insurance company ! After all thats what I pay my subscription for, and having only made thred claims in twenty five years I aint doing too bad ! Touch wood

Stuart

« **Reply #27 on:** October 12, 2015, 09:15:38 pm »

Better to do the honorable thing and sleep well at night rather than be bad mouthed behind your back, thats never good for business IMO.

Well done stuart, nice to see a caring business rather than one that closes its eyes and hopes the problem goes away.

« **Reply #28 on:** October 12, 2015, 09:27:47 pm »

Im only a trial & error expert myself

But i think i would have started with a simple acid , like citric acid dilute , or perhaps your rust remover diluted . Before reaching for the sod met products which are a bit unpredictable imo .

« **Reply #29 on:** October 12, 2015, 09:49:23 pm »

its a genuine accident Stuart, not like you cleaned the carpet in the wrong way and caused browning etc

we are all at danger of accidental spillages or machines leaking etc and no matter how you try to prevent it accidents can still happen and with hind sight you would of changed something

i remember doing a red wine spot removal - i had a CFR spotter then and their hand tool that comes with it. All was going well, put the machine on a drip mat with a dust sheet underneath. Rinsed the spot first then applied a reducer and waited. Then i started to rinse and the hand tool that came with the CFR machine is suppose to extend a bit like a spring. I reached a bit too far forward, heard a bad noise and looked around and the spotter had gone head over heals!! With the machine being a bit top heavy any way and the hose attaching to the top, it took next to nothing for it to topple. There was dirty water p~ssing out of it.

It was about to all start coming over the drip mat and sheet onto the lounge - not sure how i tackled it but i think the dust sheet saved me as i mopped it all up with that before it hit the carpet! Luckily the customer wasnt watching but it would only of taken a second or two more and i would of been in the poope

Then there was when the time when my pump up sprayer hose connector popped - spraying cleaner all up the wall and fireplace! Luckily again no customer to see and the wall dried ok and the fireplace wasnt one of the absorbent stone ones so again got away with that. I also had a pump up sprayer split underneath - it was only 2 weeks old and just a manufacturing fault, but as i lifted it the solution just started pumping out the bottom. That was on the carpet which was wool - extracted it asap and blew dry it and was lucky to have no wicking or browning.

All these things can happen - the sprayers were good brands, just happens - you live and learn with it and experience has made me more careful on where i place things, leaving pump up's without depressurising them between presprays and the golden drip mats and cotton sheets/tarpaulins

There is a thread on CT where people have outed their problems and its obvious we all have the same trouble - like you say so long as you are insured and do everything you can thats as much as you can do

Fair play to you for posting it on a forum - hope you can put it down to one of them things now and move on