[jasonl]

I rinse out small areas with my small extractor.

[mark_roberts]

Jason

What system and chems do you use?

thanks
Mark

[robert meldrum]

After 15 0r so years of H/W/E I was apprehensive about what to expect from bonnet cleaning but was absolutely astonished at the results you can achieve when using the equipment and chemicals correctly !

My first work with bonneting was a contract with in a high street chain which had a very high volume of traffic and only the usual Henry for day to day "cleaning".

On my first job I even took an extractor along " just in case "

The results on even the filthiest of areas was way beyond my expectations and with regard to the comments about NOT cleaning on a single pass you might consider that a single pass with a bonnet is as much as 21"so to you're covering a lot more ground than you would when wanding and even moving relatively slowly would still be able to cover more ground than you would wanding and with a lot less physical effort.

If I was setting up a c/c business today and had researched it thoroughly with a view to maximising my return on investment. Rotary Cleaning of the O/P variety would be at the top of my list with a compact portable for upholstery work and the occasional job with awkward / small spaces.

Anyone whose laid out £10k - £20k, or even £40k is obviously going to have a resistance to a method of doing the same job that costs about £4 to set up and used properly will give results as good as anything they can achieve.

Kidding yourself that you customer will be more impressed by " claims " of Deep Down To The Base Of The Pile cleaning will be preferred to the Instantly Dry aspect of a system that leaves their carpets Clean / Dry / Protected and without the potential dangers of Open Doors / Hot Hoses Containing Very Hot Water Under Pressure  in their homes it's really a No Brainer.

[elliott cleaning]

After 15 0r so years of H/W/E I was apprehensive about what to expect from bonnet cleaning but was absolutely astonished at the results you can achieve when using the equipment and chemicals correctly !

My first work with bonneting was a contract with in a high street chain which had a very high volume of traffic and only the usual Henry for day to day "cleaning".

On my first job I even took an extractor along " just in case "



Anyone whose laid out £10k - £20k, or even £40k is obviously going to have a resistance to a method of doing the same job that costs about £4 to set up and used properly will give results as good as anything they can achieve.

Robert - as a novice, can you talk me through the physical activity that occurs to the soiling in piled carpets when cleaning by the lm process as compared to HWE

[derek west]

elliot cleaning

i'll think you'll find that when youve mastered the art of bonnetting you will be able to evenly distribute the soil over the whole carpet giving it a unform colour and therefore looking clean and new, it also has the benefits of not resoiling quickly as the soil added will blend in with the evenly distributed soil on completion of the last clean. 

am joking, lighten up fella's.

but seriously though, uniform colour, thats what you need to work on

[wynne jones]

A couple of you are way off base I feel.

I don't know why padding needs defending. It produces some excellent, VISIBLE results, is fast, safe and profitable, but please don't tell me it gets the poo out because you then discredit the whole method with suggestions like that.

[jasonl]

Padding gets the poo out .

18 years and lots of training tells me this , I HAVE PASSED TRAINING COURSES ON 3 CONTINENTS .I have actually  operated and worked the system. Not just  had a quick demo.

[robert meldrum]

Derek's comment although " tongue in cheek " has been the stock answer from those who've invested in H/W/E and believe totally in H/W/E as the only true method of effectively cleaning carpets and cleaning to what they regard or understand as the highest standard and as such the method that delivers the best value to their customers and presumably being " real businessmen " they regard it as the most profitable system to use, as it gives the highest return on investment of both time and money.

Are they right ? Have any actually done the maths ?  Have they considered the full costs over a period of a year or two years or even five years ?

[wynne jones]

Jason

I'm sure it looks good and in many cases preferable to HWE. I can't see how a 17" pad can hold hardly any amount of crap though and the synthetic ones even less. If you have proof that it does then I would be very interested in that.

[jasonl]

If you contact camraso they will send you a report on bonnet cleaning , confirming its effectiveness.

Most people do not comprehend ,as it is outside thier current paradigm, the simple mechanics of the process.

PROCESS  is the key word ,  I think most knockers of padding only see the pad , not the  raking, thorough vaccing in 3 directions , brushing of solution,  spot treatments, 4 passes of pad. 

[Bob Robertson]

elliot cleaning

i'll think you'll find that when youve mastered the art of bonnetting you will be able to evenly distribute the soil over the whole carpet giving it a unform colour and therefore looking clean and new, it also has the benefits of not resoiling quickly as the soil added will blend in with the evenly distributed soil on completion of the last clean.

am joking, lighten up fella's.

but seriously though, uniform colour, thats what you need to work on

Always read the small print!

but seriously though, uniform colour, thats what you need to work on


 
 

[wynne jones]

I'm actually a big fan of muck spreading, it's great for low profile commercial and where the client is only interested in £/2m and visuale results.

[elliott cleaning]

Came across this link on the subject

www.alturasolutions.com/ICSLowMoistureCarpetCareMethods.pdf

[Derek_Walker]

Bonnet cleaning / padding is another form of extracting dirt out of the carpet. We all know that a high percentage of soil in a carpet is dry soil. Once this is extracted with a vacuum cleaner, you are left with the greasy soil stuck to the fibres. Running over the carpet with a bonnet will extract/absorb these greasy soils,it is not rocket science. If you use an encap shampoo than you are encapsulating these soils into a crystaline structure, this will be extracted/vacuumed out when dry.
With all the different systems the soil is extracted, just in a different way.
With any system you will not extract all the soil, even with a truckmount. For instance if you run a rotary bonnet mop over a carpet after hot water extraction, you will remove more soiling, and vice versa.

[jasonl]

Bonnet cleaning / padding is another form of extracting dirt out of the carpet. We all know that a high percentage of soil in a carpet is dry soil. Once this is extracted with a vacuum cleaner, you are left with the greasy soil stuck to the fibres. Running over the carpet with a bonnet will extract/absorb these greasy soils,it is not rocket science. If you use an encap shampoo than you are encapsulating these soils into a crystaline structure, this will be extracted/vacuumed out when dry.
With all the different systems the soil is extracted, just in a different way.
With any system you will not extract all the soil, even with a truckmount. For instance if you run a rotary bonnet mop over a carpet after hot water extraction, you will remove more soiling, and vice versa.

Agreed , I just did not feel the need to defend the process so much, as I know it works , my customers do too.

[robert meldrum]

The comments from Derek Walker are borne out on tests conducted over some years and with better products coming on the market the case for L/M just gets stronger and stronger.

The cost factor in encap' cleaning is NOT an issue unlike V/L/M where the cost of " sponges " can be prohibitive on many occasions.

What seems to be missing in many peoples thinking is the BOTTOM LINE. Looking the part or thinking you LOOK THE PART because of the BIG and EXPENSIVE equipment you use might be confused with actually making money !!!

[wynne jones]

LM is good money no deniyng that.

[Simon Gerrard]

I'm piggy in the middle on this one as I am in the midst of giving LM a serious looking at.
I own one of the most powerful carpet cleaning machines on the planet, the Titan 875 which produces monstrous amounts of power. We also use the Flexi5 to first dry vac the carpet and then to agitate the pre-spray into the carpet, and then extract with the Titan. (this is on domestic) Even after all of that the extracted soil is grey to black AND the in-line filter has collected even more debris, despite the heavy pre-vaccing.

So if I do all the same pre-treating with the flexi 5 and then pad the carpet instead of extracting it,  then surely all of that debris is going to stay in the carpet and the majority of the soil with it because there is no way on God's merry earth that the same amount of soil can be absorbed into a pad as can be extracted into a tank.

I'm not being argumentative on this so please, no hostile answers. I just want someone to explain that point to me. Is it the case that LM by its very nature cannot remove as much soil, dirt & debris and therefore the carpet isn't as clean as with HWE, or is it the contention that it is as clean?

Simon

[jasonl]

After you have cleaned a carpet with your TITAN , I wish it could be lifted , taken to Franklins in Sheffield , and then pounded   by thier beater there, and see how much grit and dirt will come out of it.  This has been done before after cleaning using an ordinary truckmount.

Of course a TM will remove more soiling, padding will often remove stains that a TM cannot, I find that customers want a carpet that looks and smells clean ,and dries very quickly ,and hold those 3 factors higher in thier priority list than the carpet actually being clean.

[Simon Gerrard]

Jason,

You always seem to start you contribution by making some statement that is irrelevant, as if no one will believe you unless you state that first. Because of LM, you've flown around the world, put your kids through school, got exams on three continents, all of which is very good but has nothing to do with the subject matter.
But while you mention it, of course there is some dirt and debris left in a carpet after it has been cleaned, even with a Titan, but surely a lot less after a Titan, or any HWE system than with an LM method?
You are also quite fond of making grand statements like, 'padding will often remove stains that a TM cannot,' can you explain that? It's not that I disbelieve you, Jason, it's just that you don't back up your grand statements and just expect people to believe them on face value.

I find that customers want a carpet that looks and smells clean ,and dries very quickly ,and hold those 3 factors higher in thier priority list than the carpet actually being clean.
So customer ringing up to get their carpet cleaned aren't really looking for it to be clean, just look and smell clean?
My experience of former LM customers, Chem-dry being the most prominent of them was that the customers says that although the carpet looked clean when it was first done, but within a few days it looked dirty again.

I know you must think I am being argumentative but I'm not. I am trying to see where LM fits in as a cleaning system and what it can offer a customer, that other systems can't and hence my questioning on the subject.

Simon