Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Padding
« on: July 20, 2010, 06:06:21 pm »
 Right, ok, I never thought I'd find myself saying this but I've decided to do a bit of padding, purely for test purposes.  :'(

I've got a drive plate for my RX20 and loads of conventional soil absorption pads: www.restormate.co.uk/epages/15094.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/15094/Products/145...
And standard carpet pads: http://www.restormate.co.uk/epages/15094.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/15094/Produ...

So what else would I need?
Which chemical?
I'm going to test it out on a very large job we've got coming up which is all low profile stuff.

Simon

richie

  • Posts: 1179
Re: Padding
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2010, 06:15:37 pm »
Simon, whats going on with you the past month or so....LOL.  Anyway, i have found Solutions Fusion Clean very good and also Hydramaster Zip Dri & Prchem Bonnet Buff.

Richie.

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Padding
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2010, 06:59:36 pm »
Richie,

I've decided to give things a go that I have previously frowned upon, but if I'm being truthful have never tried. So now I'm trying them and I've learned lots of new things along the way.

Simon

richie

  • Posts: 1179
Re: Padding
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2010, 07:02:23 pm »
Good on ya Simon

Re: Padding
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2010, 07:11:00 pm »
So what else would I need?
Which chemical?
I'm going to test it out on a very large job we've got coming up which is all low profile stuff.

What would you like? The book answer or a means to an end answer?

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Padding
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2010, 07:17:04 pm »
Any answer is fine. I beginners guide to padding will do fine.

Simon

Re: Padding
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2010, 07:28:18 pm »
Any answer is fine. I beginners guide to padding will do fine.

Book answer: A really good pre-vac is paramount to padding. Pre-spray with MS (of your own choice). Aggitate. Take pad out of bucket containing hot water (hot so you need gloves is best). Wring out as best you can. One quick run over about 6 sq/m. Turn pad over and redo but slower the same 6 sq/m working north-south then east-west. And keep going.
Quicker alternative: Pre spray then aggitate using one of the pads just for that purpose. Take pad out of bucket and run over about 20 sq/m
Alternative quick method: Pre spray using any alkaline carpet cleaner. Take pad out of bucket containing acid rinse and run over 20 sq/m

I know some won't like some of my methods because their not 'book' but it works for me.

derek west

Re: Padding
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2010, 07:32:37 pm »
simon.
truckmount as usual, then spray a pad with microsplitter and bonnet over truckmounted area, then look at pad and say sorry derek, you were right ;D

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Padding
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2010, 07:50:35 pm »
simon.
truckmount as usual, then spray a pad with microsplitter and bonnet over truckmounted area, then look at pad and say sorry derek, you were right ;D

I have been padding for 18 years, not like that though.  ;D
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

derek west

Re: Padding
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2010, 07:55:36 pm »
works for me.

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Padding
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2010, 07:57:47 pm »
Not with you there, Derek, you been on the beer again?

Simon

derek west

Re: Padding
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2010, 08:20:34 pm »
ive been tea total, well! latte total since january the first, with the exception of 3 newcastle brown ales in march on my birthday. ;D

just got to pack in the ciggies now.

wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: Padding
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2010, 11:24:12 pm »
Can you get urine and dog poo out of a carpet with a pad?

I would have thought you need some other extraction method as well or pass on a job like that.
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.

clinton

Re: Padding
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2010, 08:01:47 am »
I would hwe first wynne before i padded ;D

Then blast it with my pads.. ::)

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: Padding
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2010, 08:54:48 am »
I find the secret to success with padding is not to exspect the carpet to come clean with a single pass of the bonnet, I find on  most carpets it takes 3 or 4 goes with extra pre-spray betreen stages.

this is why I find the speed quoted by companies who sell pad systems to be wrong  it takes me  just as long to pad as it does to HWE.
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

paul wallace

  • Posts: 68
Re: Padding
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2010, 09:15:08 am »
Excuse me  :D , as I'm only new to this but in my limited experience I find the system great for maintenance of low profile carpets but when I've needed to use on BW's etc I've found it to be limited and time taking!

I believe that commom sence tells me it has it place but so do all the different systems and I guess you find what suits you, mirror this to the customers needs and your in business?

Also I think with experience of using the system you can only become better at getting the results, hence why sometimes I'll try; even when I have a better option, just to practise!

Paul.
Just trying to do a Good-Honest job and make money!

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Padding
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2010, 11:34:10 am »
Excuse me  :D , as I'm only new to this but in my limited experience I find the system great for maintenance of low profile carpets but when I've needed to use on BW's etc I've found it to be limited and time taking!

I believe that commom sence tells me it has it place but so do all the different systems and I guess you find what suits you, mirror this to the customers needs and your in business?

Also I think with experience of using the system you can only become better at getting the results, hence why sometimes I'll try; even when I have a better option, just to practise!

Paul.

I find LM best on BW carpets, I have cleaned dozens of them that HWE cleaners have turned away from due to risk of shrinkage.
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

Ricky M

  • Posts: 852
Re: Padding
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2010, 12:18:34 pm »
not too fond of the muck spreading/padding system unless really necessary at all but this morning I'm teaching 1 of our newbies our system in a controlled environment and this is after a 3 hour session on Monday using the trucky. 

He said after doing 3 small office rooms ( well trafficked ) " the white wooly pad looks really filthy but the carpet dont look no where near is good as when we used the machine from the van...... so what's point in this way of cleaning !"

had to just smile and chuckle inside , then of course I expanded: the principle factors of LM. 

 
www.ability1975.co.uk
                          www.carpetcleaninguttoxeter.co.uk  
              NCCA !? but why have non of my clients herd of them ??

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Padding
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2010, 12:26:01 pm »
So have I been conning people these last 18 years?  I have had a very good life out of padding ,, and continue to do so. I guess it is because I charge high and get carpets to clean that are not too dirty in the first place.

If done correctly ,with training it is a viable system, fast to cover large areas , and the carpets dry quickly, which many customers put high on thier priority list.

I am guessing that few people have been trained formally on how to carry out LM , as I know of no courses in the UK which teach it , apart from texatherm/dry fusion.
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

Ricky M

  • Posts: 852
Re: Padding
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2010, 12:30:59 pm »
So have I been conning people these last 18 years?  I have had a very good life out of padding ,, and continue to do so. I guess it is because I charge high and get carpets to clean that are not too dirty in the first place.

If done correctly ,with training it is a viable system, fast to cover large areas , and the carpets dry quickly, which many customers put high on thier priority list.

I am guessing that few people have been trained formally on how to carry out LM , as I know of no courses in the UK which teach it , apart from texatherm/dry fusion.
:o

Easy big lad I think you may have taken that a bit too personally, was not intended to have a pop at padders and we all have a preference when it come to carpet cleaning. :-*   
www.ability1975.co.uk
                          www.carpetcleaninguttoxeter.co.uk  
              NCCA !? but why have non of my clients herd of them ??

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Padding
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2010, 12:40:53 pm »
No bother, I did not take it personally , I owned a TM for a few weeks last year , and found it to be useless, and my padding system cleaned far better,, not because of the TM , because I was untrained , and did not have a clue how to operate it.
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

carpetmonsters

  • Posts: 149
Re: Padding
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2010, 02:10:32 pm »
99% of my work is repeat and I only pad machines dont break earn very good money

Steve

Gary Webber

  • Posts: 252
Re: Padding
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2010, 07:53:07 am »
I always find statements like this extremely funny:

"I find the secret to success with padding is not to exspect the carpet to come clean with a single pass of the bonnet, I find on  most carpets it takes 3 or 4 goes with extra pre-spray betreen stages.

this is why I find the speed quoted by companies who sell pad systems to be wrong  it takes me  just as long to pad as it does to HWE"

Coming from a person who gave us the  dry foam chair cleaning method video.!!  (a gem!)

Unfortunately you have to grasp the concept behind the method and the chemical/heat combination which provide you with a clean with  one or two passes of a pad



Regards

Gary

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: Padding
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2010, 11:27:02 am »
Gary, I'm here to entertain :) :)

but I stand by my statement of all the bonneting I've done I've never achieved an acceptable result with a single pass of a bonnet ( or 2 passes) I've tried a number of pad system including ones that use heat and the result has been the same, numerous passes are needed to remove the dirt.

perhaps my standards are higher than yours as I aim for maximum soil removal not just a slight improvement in appearance ;)

but perhaps our difference in opinion come from the type of carpeting we are cleaning, my statement is based on domestic carpeting in all fibres not commercial/industrial carpets which  bonneting is usually used on.

Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: Padding
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2010, 01:21:49 pm »
That's because you extract only a small amount of dirt to the pad. You are trying to evenly distribute the dirt across the whole of the carpet.

 
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.

Gary Webber

  • Posts: 252
Re: Padding
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2010, 02:45:42 pm »
Mike,

Glad to hear your standards are higher than mine! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The idea with pad systems incorporating heat is to induce the soil to rise to the surface and capture it using a minimal amount of moisture with maximum wetting ability, so as not  to "drown" the soil and prevent it rising upwards for capture within the pad over a short area.

Perhaps you must show me via video your method, as I have probably spent the last 11 years doing it totally wrong and I can inform all my customers/clients that there is a "new" method for them to experience.

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Padding
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2010, 04:50:18 pm »
That's because you extract only a small amount of dirt to the pad. You are trying to evenly distribute the dirt across the whole of the carpet.

 

Can you prove this to be the case ? with CAMRASO reports , or any other proven test method?
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Padding
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2010, 05:10:04 pm »
No disrespect to anyone one, but even the most avid devotee of LM would accept that there isn't any way that LM cleans a carpet as thoroughly as extraction cleaning.
If I recall correctly padding was originally conceived as a maintenance system that was intended to spruce up carpets on a regular basis, in between deep cleaning with the soil extraction system. Chem-Dry then developed it into an outright cleaning system with an emphasis on DRY rather than CLEAN and after that came Texatherm and others, but with the best will in the world none of these systems cleans as thoroughly as extraction cleaning, especially the Truck Mounted system.

Simon

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Padding
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2010, 05:18:06 pm »
No it does not  claim to be  as thorough a system as TM or any other HWE system ,  in the same way a ford focus is not as good a car as a mercedes , the focus sells more cars in the uk than all mercedes models combined .

For the customer LM is the best choice , in many cases, based on drying times, speed and price.

I clean with LM , and if a job requires HWE I sub it out , for me LM is the best business decision for me , giving the best possible ROI which is why I am in business.






I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Padding
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2010, 05:47:19 pm »
Jason,

No it does not  claim to be  as thorough a system as TM or any other HWE system

I think you've just conceded that you're selling a second rate service, albeit to people prepared to settle for second best.

Simon

Glynn

  • Posts: 1129
Re: Padding
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2010, 05:50:30 pm »
If we went in with a padding set up on "most" of our work we would be laughed off the job.
Because most of them have been there and had that...
Regards
Glynn

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Padding
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2010, 06:51:09 pm »
You would be surprised Glyn how many say that to me about HWE too ,, that terribly noisy machine, pipes everywhere , etc etc .

Another example , a relative of mine bought a Specsavers franchise at the same time I bought my first Chem Dry  franchise.   He had previously worked for Dolland and aitchison opticians who were 3x more expensive than Specsavers.

Specsavers turned out to be the best financial decision he made, he always explained that people  generally no longer appreciate quality , and prefer convenience and price and ease of use.

It is obvious to anybody that a 20k TM will clean better than my 800 quid buffer.

What is the annual cost in depreciation , finance charges, repairs and maintenance on a typical TM?  THis is out of interest   to compare the bsiness case.
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

Gary Webber

  • Posts: 252
Re: Padding
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2010, 07:32:59 pm »
Got to ask you Simon,

If you see it as a second rate service with inferior results.........
why are you looking at it? surely if i felt that strongly I wouldn't entertain the thought of Lm cleaning.

Confused?


Gary

derek west

Re: Padding
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2010, 08:14:07 pm »
maintenance cleans maybe?

Re: Padding
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2010, 09:54:59 pm »
I think you've just conceded that you're selling a second rate service, albeit to people prepared to settle for second best.

Jeez calm down Simon. Just lately you've requested guidence on LM which you planned to use. So are you saying you are going to provide a 2nd rate service to a customer?
If done properly and with time spent carrying out LM to the letter of the book  then the results can be fantastic, even more so when using the micro splitting products. Ask Nick at Solutions if you want the ins and outs of exactly what happens.

elliott cleaning

  • Posts: 778
Re: Padding
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2010, 10:00:12 pm »
Who is 'Nick at Solutions'? Some independant - or has he got a vested interest in one thing or the other?

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Padding
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2010, 10:07:34 pm »
Gary,
I'm not looking at it from the perspective of offering it as a service, but more to see if there is a place for it in some circumstances. The only reason I'm revisiting the technique is to look at it again if only to affirm my belief that it is not a cleaning technique  but more something to be used to maintain a high appearance level in between deep cleans, which in my view is all it is good for. Having said that I concede that others take a different view and have built successful businesses based on it and hats off to them for that.

Simon

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Padding
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2010, 10:12:39 pm »
Neil,
I never suggested I was thinking of offering an LM cleaning service. If a client wanted a prestige reception area maintained on a regular basis then any good professional should be up to speed on the latest methods and materials in order to do it, hence my initial question.

Simon

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Padding
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2010, 10:13:30 pm »
I use this method to clean carpets  , this method has paid for my kids schooling , let me travel the world , bought nice houses and cars ,and given me a simple and easy working life .

To me the system I use is not as important as how I market the system I use. One day I may buy a TM, once  direct drive units are allowed to be used here, though for now I will  continue to build a business based on LM.
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: Padding
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2010, 09:16:42 pm »
Jason

This is a genuine question. You do a quote and it's something nasty in the carpet like urine, poo or blood. Do you have some form of portie or do you pass on it?

Cheers

Wynne
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Padding
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2010, 04:15:19 pm »
I rinse out small areas with my small extractor.
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

mark_roberts

  • Posts: 1899
Re: Padding
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2010, 07:16:07 pm »
Jason

What system and chems do you use?

thanks
Mark

robert meldrum

  • Posts: 1984
Re: Padding
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2010, 08:12:22 pm »
After 15 0r so years of H/W/E I was apprehensive about what to expect from bonnet cleaning but was absolutely astonished at the results you can achieve when using the equipment and chemicals correctly !

My first work with bonneting was a contract with in a high street chain which had a very high volume of traffic and only the usual Henry for day to day "cleaning".

On my first job I even took an extractor along " just in case "

The results on even the filthiest of areas was way beyond my expectations and with regard to the comments about NOT cleaning on a single pass you might consider that a single pass with a bonnet is as much as 21"so to you're covering a lot more ground than you would when wanding and even moving relatively slowly would still be able to cover more ground than you would wanding and with a lot less physical effort.

If I was setting up a c/c business today and had researched it thoroughly with a view to maximising my return on investment. Rotary Cleaning of the O/P variety would be at the top of my list with a compact portable for upholstery work and the occasional job with awkward / small spaces.

Anyone whose laid out £10k - £20k, or even £40k is obviously going to have a resistance to a method of doing the same job that costs about £4 to set up and used properly will give results as good as anything they can achieve.

Kidding yourself that you customer will be more impressed by " claims " of Deep Down To The Base Of The Pile cleaning will be preferred to the Instantly Dry aspect of a system that leaves their carpets Clean / Dry / Protected and without the potential dangers of Open Doors / Hot Hoses Containing Very Hot Water Under Pressure  in their homes it's really a No Brainer.

elliott cleaning

  • Posts: 778
Re: Padding
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2010, 09:22:02 pm »
After 15 0r so years of H/W/E I was apprehensive about what to expect from bonnet cleaning but was absolutely astonished at the results you can achieve when using the equipment and chemicals correctly !

My first work with bonneting was a contract with in a high street chain which had a very high volume of traffic and only the usual Henry for day to day "cleaning".

On my first job I even took an extractor along " just in case "



Anyone whose laid out £10k - £20k, or even £40k is obviously going to have a resistance to a method of doing the same job that costs about £4 to set up and used properly will give results as good as anything they can achieve.



Robert - as a novice, can you talk me through the physical activity that occurs to the soiling in piled carpets when cleaning by the lm process as compared to HWE

derek west

Re: Padding
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2010, 10:25:34 pm »
elliot cleaning

i'll think you'll find that when youve mastered the art of bonnetting you will be able to evenly distribute the soil over the whole carpet giving it a unform colour and therefore looking clean and new, it also has the benefits of not resoiling quickly as the soil added will blend in with the evenly distributed soil on completion of the last clean.  ;D

am joking, lighten up fella's.

but seriously though, uniform colour, thats what you need to work on :D

wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: Padding
« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2010, 10:44:03 pm »
A couple of you are way off base I feel.

I don't know why padding needs defending. It produces some excellent, VISIBLE results, is fast, safe and profitable, but please don't tell me it gets the poo out because you then discredit the whole method with suggestions like that.
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Padding
« Reply #46 on: July 25, 2010, 10:47:50 pm »
Padding gets the poo out .

18 years and lots of training tells me this , I HAVE PASSED TRAINING COURSES ON 3 CONTINENTS .I have actually  operated and worked the system. Not just  had a quick demo.
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

robert meldrum

  • Posts: 1984
Re: Padding
« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2010, 10:48:27 pm »
Derek's comment although " tongue in cheek " has been the stock answer from those who've invested in H/W/E and believe totally in H/W/E as the only true method of effectively cleaning carpets and cleaning to what they regard or understand as the highest standard and as such the method that delivers the best value to their customers and presumably being " real businessmen " they regard it as the most profitable system to use, as it gives the highest return on investment of both time and money.

Are they right ? Have any actually done the maths ?  Have they considered the full costs over a period of a year or two years or even five years ?


wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: Padding
« Reply #48 on: July 25, 2010, 10:56:05 pm »
Jason

I'm sure it looks good and in many cases preferable to HWE. I can't see how a 17" pad can hold hardly any amount of crap though and the synthetic ones even less. If you have proof that it does then I would be very interested in that.
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Padding
« Reply #49 on: July 25, 2010, 11:00:22 pm »
If you contact camraso they will send you a report on bonnet cleaning , confirming its effectiveness.

Most people do not comprehend ,as it is outside thier current paradigm, the simple mechanics of the process.

PROCESS  is the key word ,  I think most knockers of padding only see the pad , not the  raking, thorough vaccing in 3 directions , brushing of solution,  spot treatments, 4 passes of pad. 
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

Bob Robertson

  • Posts: 695
Re: Padding
« Reply #50 on: July 25, 2010, 11:02:57 pm »
elliot cleaning

i'll think you'll find that when youve mastered the art of bonnetting you will be able to evenly distribute the soil over the whole carpet giving it a unform colour and therefore looking clean and new, it also has the benefits of not resoiling quickly as the soil added will blend in with the evenly distributed soil on completion of the last clean. ;D

am joking, lighten up fella's.

but seriously though, uniform colour, thats what you need to work on :D

Always read the small print!

but seriously though, uniform colour, thats what you need to work on :D


 ;D
 


wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: Padding
« Reply #51 on: July 25, 2010, 11:17:56 pm »
I'm actually a big fan of muck spreading, it's great for low profile commercial and where the client is only interested in £/2m and visuale results.
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.

elliott cleaning

  • Posts: 778
Re: Padding
« Reply #52 on: July 25, 2010, 11:24:57 pm »

Derek_Walker

  • Posts: 454
Re: Padding
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2010, 08:46:53 am »
Bonnet cleaning / padding is another form of extracting dirt out of the carpet. We all know that a high percentage of soil in a carpet is dry soil. Once this is extracted with a vacuum cleaner, you are left with the greasy soil stuck to the fibres. Running over the carpet with a bonnet will extract/absorb these greasy soils,it is not rocket science. If you use an encap shampoo than you are encapsulating these soils into a crystaline structure, this will be extracted/vacuumed out when dry.
With all the different systems the soil is extracted, just in a different way.
With any system you will not extract all the soil, even with a truckmount. For instance if you run a rotary bonnet mop over a carpet after hot water extraction, you will remove more soiling, and vice versa.

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Padding
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2010, 09:43:04 am »
Bonnet cleaning / padding is another form of extracting dirt out of the carpet. We all know that a high percentage of soil in a carpet is dry soil. Once this is extracted with a vacuum cleaner, you are left with the greasy soil stuck to the fibres. Running over the carpet with a bonnet will extract/absorb these greasy soils,it is not rocket science. If you use an encap shampoo than you are encapsulating these soils into a crystaline structure, this will be extracted/vacuumed out when dry.
With all the different systems the soil is extracted, just in a different way.
With any system you will not extract all the soil, even with a truckmount. For instance if you run a rotary bonnet mop over a carpet after hot water extraction, you will remove more soiling, and vice versa.

Agreed , I just did not feel the need to defend the process so much, as I know it works , my customers do too.
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

robert meldrum

  • Posts: 1984
Re: Padding
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2010, 11:33:39 am »
The comments from Derek Walker are borne out on tests conducted over some years and with better products coming on the market the case for L/M just gets stronger and stronger.

The cost factor in encap' cleaning is NOT an issue unlike V/L/M where the cost of " sponges " can be prohibitive on many occasions.

What seems to be missing in many peoples thinking is the BOTTOM LINE. Looking the part or thinking you LOOK THE PART because of the BIG and EXPENSIVE equipment you use might be confused with actually making money !!!

wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: Padding
« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2010, 08:20:13 pm »
LM is good money no deniyng that.
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Padding
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2010, 09:20:34 am »
I'm piggy in the middle on this one as I am in the midst of giving LM a serious looking at.
I own one of the most powerful carpet cleaning machines on the planet, the Titan 875 which produces monstrous amounts of power. We also use the Flexi5 to first dry vac the carpet and then to agitate the pre-spray into the carpet, and then extract with the Titan. (this is on domestic) Even after all of that the extracted soil is grey to black AND the in-line filter has collected even more debris, despite the heavy pre-vaccing.

So if I do all the same pre-treating with the flexi 5 and then pad the carpet instead of extracting it,  then surely all of that debris is going to stay in the carpet and the majority of the soil with it because there is no way on God's merry earth that the same amount of soil can be absorbed into a pad as can be extracted into a tank.

I'm not being argumentative on this so please, no hostile answers. I just want someone to explain that point to me. Is it the case that LM by its very nature cannot remove as much soil, dirt & debris and therefore the carpet isn't as clean as with HWE, or is it the contention that it is as clean?

Simon


jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Padding
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2010, 10:01:11 am »
After you have cleaned a carpet with your TITAN , I wish it could be lifted , taken to Franklins in Sheffield , and then pounded   by thier beater there, and see how much grit and dirt will come out of it.  This has been done before after cleaning using an ordinary truckmount.

Of course a TM will remove more soiling, padding will often remove stains that a TM cannot, I find that customers want a carpet that looks and smells clean ,and dries very quickly ,and hold those 3 factors higher in thier priority list than the carpet actually being clean.
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Padding
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2010, 04:36:46 pm »
Jason,

You always seem to start you contribution by making some statement that is irrelevant, as if no one will believe you unless you state that first. Because of LM, you've flown around the world, put your kids through school, got exams on three continents, all of which is very good but has nothing to do with the subject matter.
But while you mention it, of course there is some dirt and debris left in a carpet after it has been cleaned, even with a Titan, but surely a lot less after a Titan, or any HWE system than with an LM method?
You are also quite fond of making grand statements like, 'padding will often remove stains that a TM cannot,' can you explain that? It's not that I disbelieve you, Jason, it's just that you don't back up your grand statements and just expect people to believe them on face value.

I find that customers want a carpet that looks and smells clean ,and dries very quickly ,and hold those 3 factors higher in thier priority list than the carpet actually being clean.
So customer ringing up to get their carpet cleaned aren't really looking for it to be clean, just look and smell clean?
My experience of former LM customers, Chem-dry being the most prominent of them was that the customers says that although the carpet looked clean when it was first done, but within a few days it looked dirty again.

I know you must think I am being argumentative but I'm not. I am trying to see where LM fits in as a cleaning system and what it can offer a customer, that other systems can't and hence my questioning on the subject.

Simon

Derek_Walker

  • Posts: 454
Re: Padding
« Reply #60 on: July 27, 2010, 06:42:40 pm »
Simon, my own personal experience tells me that HWE will remove far more soil than LM, especially when the carpets are fully laden with soil. I believe LM is far better suited to commercial, low profile carpets where the benefits of using such a system are superior to HWE. I would not use LM in a domestic situation, unless the carpets were in a very good condition, or the customer specifically wanted a quick drying system. This would still be at my discretion as to whether or not it was the right choice.
What are you intending to use the LM system for?

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Padding
« Reply #61 on: July 27, 2010, 07:36:06 pm »
Derek,

That sounds like the perfect approach.
I can't say that I am thinking of introducing the LM as a service, but like you say if the circumstances point towards the use of an LM method, then I would use it, as I believe that all professional carpet cleaners should be equipped to deal with all kinds of carpets in all kinds of conditions and not just some carpets, or the carpets that suit their chosen method.

Which chemicals do you use? Is there any difference between one type of pad to another. What about Encap, do you use that and if so in what circumstances?
We've got some large commercials coming up, some with filthy areas which LM may be able to deal with. Just out of interest how would you deal with these areas?

Simon

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Padding
« Reply #62 on: July 27, 2010, 08:20:33 pm »
Surely saying that a professional carpet cleaner should offer all types of cleaning , is like saying that a professional car dealer should offer all makes of car, I do LM it works, it works for me, it works for my customers. You decide to invest 40k or whatever on a set up , I do not . Everyone is happy.
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

derek west

Re: Padding
« Reply #63 on: July 27, 2010, 08:37:08 pm »
heres what i'd do for what its worth.

not sure if those dark marks are oil based but lets say they are.

prespray hot with powerburst, then citra boost neat sprayed onto the oil marks, agitate with enviro then rinse off with clearwater rinse.

then spray a bonnet with split-x and bonnet over the traffic areas till no more transfer, then dry bonnet again til no transfer,

then wait for the owner to say "WOW" get paid go maccies.

garry22

Re: Padding
« Reply #64 on: July 27, 2010, 08:50:48 pm »
Quote
We've got some large commercials coming up, some with filthy areas which LM may be able to deal with. Just out of interest how would you deal with these areas?

This was done with Dry Fusion recently...

Before and after photo's ...

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Padding
« Reply #65 on: July 27, 2010, 09:04:11 pm »
Jason,
what I don't get about your business model is that you have turned your back on the most popular carpet cleaning system on the planet, bar none.
What happens when you get to a job or quote that is too dirty for LM?
To my mind any professional carpet cleaner should be equipped to clean any carpet regardless of colour, condition or age and yet you only offer LM, which seems utterly bonkers to me, but obviously it works for you and I'll lay odds your competitors aren't too miffed about it either. ;D

Derek,

that's pretty much what I had in mind for it. Crikey, we must stop agreeing :-*

Garry,

That looks good. Talk me through the process.

Simon

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Padding
« Reply #66 on: July 27, 2010, 09:07:17 pm »
I have passed over 1 job in the past year that the customer wanted a TM on, and another where the blacktop was bad so I suggested they call a TM operator.
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Padding
« Reply #67 on: July 27, 2010, 09:24:36 pm »
Amd in reality , few customers, know or care how we clean carpets,  yes  somebody built the website , not knowing how I clean
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

Derek_Walker

  • Posts: 454
Re: Padding
« Reply #68 on: July 27, 2010, 09:29:56 pm »
Although I think LM would be able to deal with this, I would use HWE for this job. These look like very high traffic area's, probably with compacted dry soil in the pile. My first objective would be to remove as much of that soil first, your Flexi 5 would be ideal for that. Then prespray with Powerburst and a booster, like energiser from Chemspec. Agitate in, allow a dwell time, then acid rinse. Follow up with a bonnet.
Derek beat me to it, I would forget the maccies, gotta watch my figure, and you are probably more into pies up where you are.

For low moisture cleaning I use a heated dry fusion machine, and my chemical of choice at the moment is Fusion Clean from Solutions. It smells nice and is very effective and economical.

As far as bonnets are concerned, I have always found my Dry Fusion bonnets to be pretty absorbant with just the right amount of agitation. I have tried the Charley pads but could not get on with them. I also have some microfibre pads which I find are very absorbant.

I have tried encap, and have used these with my Cimex machine, to be honest, although I think it has potential, I would much prefer to remove soil with a bonnet rather than leave the soil to be vacuumed later.


Re: Padding
« Reply #69 on: July 27, 2010, 09:30:08 pm »
Can I butt in here please ;D
We've already seen impressive pics of a LM clean that most would say should be HWE only.
No one is saying LM does it all and Jason has already admitted off loading to a TM when it was needed, so why not advertise everything, and in the event it's too much then sub it out, or like I do with  Jason and a few others pass on jobs. Afterall (and in my case) I would rather build up a relationship with other carpet cleaners other than take anything and everything, and no one to call for help when its needed.

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Padding
« Reply #70 on: July 27, 2010, 09:50:47 pm »
Derek,

I think you're spot on there and pretty much on track as to how we were planning to do the job.
The bonneting part of it fits in where I though LM might come in useful. There are also some less dirty areas on these jobs where we could use LM on it's own which is why I've been so interested in how other people deal with these situations and the answer seems to be through a combination of different techniques.

Thanks

Simon

garry22

Re: Padding
« Reply #71 on: July 28, 2010, 10:29:54 am »
Simon,

Re; the pictures.

It was an end of tenancy clean and every carpet in the house looked like that.

The landlord said " I don't think the deposit will cover the damage to this house. Anything you can do to save any carpet here will be a bonus".

Stages.

1/ Thorough dry vac with Sebo upright (on larger office jobs we use a holloway pile lifter).

2/ Pre spray with DF "Restore" (Dry Fusion's HD prespray that is still pretty much neutral PH)

3/ Agititate with shampoo brush.

4/ Clean using wrung out DF pad and DF "Activator" (the standard chemical with a citris / vanilla perfume that the landlord insists on because "it smells like it's been cleaned").

5/ Put turbo dryer on to get it dry very quickly (not part of the official DF process but I do it to get the areas dry ASAP).

I have to say the result shocked me on this one as I thought the carpets would have to be scrapped.

Probably the only difference to normal DF cleaning was step 3, the agitation. Normally the DF pads are good enough on their own but this case needed a little bit more.

Hope that helps.

Garry

premiermaids

  • Posts: 79
Re: Padding
« Reply #72 on: July 28, 2010, 07:40:18 pm »
Great post Garry - very useful.

Can I ask how you did the stairs?

Regards

Jim

derek west

Re: Padding
« Reply #73 on: July 28, 2010, 07:53:32 pm »
and following up premiers question, can i ask why you did the hall before the stairs?

the thing i question about LM (and no doubt i'll get some sheeheight for this) is, surely, allthough it looks clean on top, you haven't got all the lower soiling out and therefore the carpet will, fill up quicker so to speak, and also i'm sceptical of all the chems you put into the carpet, surely the two points ive made are a recipe for rapid resoiling.

don't get me wrong i do value bonnetting and i know for a fact that it can get certain stuff out that a truckmount can't. but as a stand alone solution to the perfect clean, surely not.

wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: Padding
« Reply #74 on: July 28, 2010, 08:34:56 pm »
There are loads of situations carpet cleaners come up against week in week out that if you use LM on you are using the wrong tool for the job.

If it's the only tool in the draw you either have to pass on it or end up not doing a proper job. To not have the equipment to HWE (even a portible) that's not good sense to me at all.
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.

idealrob

  • Posts: 666
Re: Padding
« Reply #75 on: July 28, 2010, 09:15:34 pm »
Jason,

You always seem to start you contribution by making some statement that is irrelevant, as if no one will believe you unless you state that first. Because of LM, you've flown around the world, put your kids through school, got exams on three continents, all of which is very good but has nothing to do with the subject matter.
But while you mention it, of course there is some dirt and debris left in a carpet after it has been cleaned, even with a Titan, but surely a lot less after a Titan, or any HWE system than with an LM method?
You are also quite fond of making grand statements like, 'padding will often remove stains that a TM cannot,' can you explain that? It's not that I disbelieve you, Jason, it's just that you don't back up your grand statements and just expect people to believe them on face value.

I find that customers want a carpet that looks and smells clean ,and dries very quickly ,and hold those 3 factors higher in thier priority list than the carpet actually being clean.
So customer ringing up to get their carpet cleaned aren't really looking for it to be clean, just look and smell clean?
My experience of former LM customers, Chem-dry being the most prominent of them was that the customers says that although the carpet looked clean when it was first done, but within a few days it looked dirty again.

I know you must think I am being argumentative but I'm not. I am trying to see where LM fits in as a cleaning system and what it can offer a customer, that other systems can't and hence my questioning on the subject.

Simon


The whole point of Jason, putting his kids through school, got exams on 3 continents, and made lots of money is the point, you say it has nothing to do with cleaning carpets, it has everything to do with cleaning carpets, it prove he has made money and is succesful, a point that some people miss, we are business men after all. My father who is now 85 , made a million through carpet cleaning, using then the buffer/scrubber wit a brush fitted and using a dry foam detergent, this was in the 60 & 70`s. there are 2 other carpet cleaners, I know of from that time, who know the science and have so called qualification in cleaning, but still live in a council house. Thats the point, does a good job, but not enough to buy a house.
As for Jason turning down a couple of jobs a year, my dad has a saying "we only clean clean things"

i will leave it at that

idealrob

derek west

Re: Padding
« Reply #76 on: July 28, 2010, 09:20:09 pm »
so the idea is to make money regardless?

just not my style. but thanks anyway.

idealrob

  • Posts: 666
Re: Padding
« Reply #77 on: July 28, 2010, 09:55:09 pm »
No, the idea is not to make money regardless, but it proves success. Why do people respect Sir Alan Sugar, Richard branson etc, I run my business of a little rug cleaning, but mostly dry cleaning, like johnsons on the high street, it not about money, just enjoy my job and the business, even after being the only ever winner of drycleaner of the year, in the north, and i mean north of Rugby, well respected as the best cleaner in the tees valley, but money is not my motive, hapiness & quality of life, 15 years ago walked away from a £4k a week job to enjoy familly life, so proves money not motive, my father was more succesful, but thats another story

idealrob

wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: Padding
« Reply #78 on: July 28, 2010, 10:20:20 pm »
You will never be happy if you chase money. I seen that film wallstreet. I said to me self hope I never end up greedy and a snob. Do what you love and give people more than they expect and you will do OK  ;)
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.