[frames to panes]

Someone with the £30,000 (roughly) brand new van and say Ionics thermal set up with carbon poles, embroidered uniform, wrapped van and all the gubbings..............
or someone like Dai, for example £300 van i think he said and a £15 pole. Both capable of doing the same domestic work using the same methods. One of the two is pretty obviously going to have a much shorter relaxed working week than the other to take home the same money.




p.s. hope you don't mind me making an example of you Dai. No way is this intended to take anything away from you.

[NWH]

The 1 with the new van if you ask me he or she are in it for the longhaul,and don`t kid yourself thinking that the other 1 is capable of doing the same job your wrong.

[frames to panes]

Why not? (domestic remember)

[NWH]

Get yourself the best kit you can afford ie poles,system the lot.Your more likely to be approached for better work if you look the part,if look scruffy have a C***py old van do you honestly think that any big business will take you seriously when you turn up to quote,this is how people think like it or not that`s the way it is.Your more likely to get far better prices aswell being that you look like a proper business,you can come back with all the it does the same job comments but in reality people go on first impressions.

[frames to panes]

Domestic. The more i think about this, the more pointless it seems to spend such vast amounts to do the same job and come up with the same result for the same pay.

[Village Gleam]

A couple of things.
First thing, you seem to have a problem with people like me who are still in their first wc business year, work hard and are determined to succeed.
Point two, the guy I know(a local competitor) who is in the situation you describe has two reels and two men, One goes front, the other back, while he writes the chit out and collects.This is what you might call a money machine. The figures are beyond anything you've ever seen posted.

He's a nice bloke and started off humping ladders across town without a vehicle. I don't think he's thirty yet.

[NWH]

What sort of figures are we talking about roughly.

[ronnie paton]

a £300 van which will last 5 min  and cost a fortune in repairs and i know cause i did this at first and wish to this day i got a decent van from the start would of saved lots of lost days and lots of money!!

[dai]

I went out looking for a van prepared to spend £3.500. I came back with a very tidy M reg escort for £250. {He gave me £100 for the old one]. This is a very clean van, hardly a mark on it.

My customers don't know the difference between a new Unger carbon, or a £15 B&Q pole.
To them I am just good old 100% reliable Dai, who has an ex directory phone number, and no Yellow pages listing.
The buggers still track me down asking if I can clean their windows. They get my number from my existing customers.
I have work coming out of my ears, it takes at least 5 weeks of fine weather to get round.
So, why the hell would I want to spend a fortune on a brand new all singing, dancing, hot water system.
Who do I want to impress? I'm 65 years old and living well off my reputation.
No matter what system you have, at the end of the day you are going to need to talk to perspective customers, and that determines whether or not. you get the job
Your own personality will always be the determining factor, presenting yourself as an honest sincere person will get you more work than a £25,000 system. Trust me. Dai

[NWH]

I went out looking for a van prepared to spend £3.500. I came back with a very tidy M reg escort for £250. {He gave me £100 for the old one]. This is a very clean van, hardly a mark on it.

My customers don't know the difference between a new Unger carbon, or a £15 B&Q pole.
To them I am just good old 100% reliable Dai, who has an ex directory phone number, and no Yellow pages listing.
The buggers still track me down asking if I can clean their windows. They get my number from my existing customers.
I have work coming out of my ears, it takes at least 5 weeks of fine weather to get round.
So, why the hell would I want to spend a fortune on a brand new all singing, dancing, hot water system.
Who do I want to impress? I'm 65 years old and living well off my reputation.
No matter what system you have, at the end of the day you are going to need to talk to perspective customers, and that determines whether or not. you get the job
Your own personality will always be the determining factor, presenting yourself as an honest sincere person will get you more work than a £25,000 system. Trust me. Dai

What your saying is right,but in most cases you won`t get your foot in the door for people to see it.

[frames to panes]

Mr Solubility, don't take things to heart, this is in no way aimed at you, the figures don't mean anything. All i'm getting at is the fact that the same results can be achieved at minimal cost. Obviously if your chasing commercial work your unlikely to get it if your driving a three wheeler van!
 People can match my earnings at the moment with a bucket and squegee so it just makes me wonder who's right and who's wrong.

[pjulk]

Well said dia

I for one would never spend £30,000 on a van and setup or anywhere near that.
And no mines not a DIY setup but my next one will be.

I for one have better things to spend my earnings on than try to go round with the the top of the range van and equipment.

At the end of the day they all do the same job.
And a competent WFP user i doubt will NOT make any more money no matter what kit they have.


Paul

[jonah]

Agree with you Dai about that , you could have all the latest most expensive kit on the market , but when getting custom it comes down to YOU personally !  Best bit of advice I heard is that ( in sales speak ) If they like you they will buy from you !

[matt]

good question DJW

what do the domestic customers care if you have a new van worth 30 K or a van worth 200 quid, they dont care, they just want clean windows

what to do they care that you have the best pole int he world ( the facelift pole, im sure some1 has mentioned a facelift before ) or a fishing pole, its just a pole with a brush on the end, they dont care, they just want clean windows

a fair % these days are out in the day anyway, the other % are older and dont really care aslong as they get clean windows


imho the same can be said for the comercail client, they dont care aslong as you get them clean, i allways arrive in my family golf, i hand them a bit of " bumf" explaining the system and how it works and they are happy

people seem far to eager to impress and look the "big un" with this and that, i bet som on here call themselves a CEO of "insert name here / cleaner windows", i guess they need that in their lives

[NWH]

If they like the look of you,impressions count.

[matt]

Well said dia

I for one would never spend £30,000 on a van and setup or anywhere near that.
And no mines not a DIY setup but my next one will be.

I for one have better things to spend my earnings on than try to go round with the the top of the range van and equipment.

At the end of the day they all do the same job.
And a competent WFP user i doubt will NOT make any more money no matter what kit they have.


Paul

indeed

Agree with you Dai about that , you could have all the latest most expensive kit on the market , but when getting custom it comes down to YOU personally !  Best bit of advice I heard is that ( in sales speak ) If they like you they will buy from you !

indeedy again

[jonah]

For the record I think its unfair to knock somone who is trying whichever way ! The good thing about this forum is you can decide for yourself from reading the posts , like the saying goes "you cant buy experience "  Also think it is best to not to get personal .

[NWH]

At the end of the day all you need to do is get water up to a brushead,it depends on what kind of work you do or want.

[Pj]

On residential

Who would I take more notice of?  The lad who's been a w/c for a year?  Or the 65 year old who can clean windows in his sleep?

No brainer!

[jonah]

spose you could take advice from both and then you would come to your own conclusion 

[geefree]

Well said dia

I for one would never spend £30,000 on a van and setup or anywhere near that.
And no mines not a DIY setup but my next one will be.

I for one have better things to spend my earnings on than try to go round with the the top of the range van and equipment.

At the end of the day they all do the same job.
And a competent WFP user i doubt will NOT make any more money no matter what kit they have.


Paul

I THOUGHT THAT WAS A REAL FLY ON MY SCREEN LOL. LOL.

[jonah]

Its the little things in life that give us pleasure 

[geefree]

 

[Village Gleam]

What advice have I given then?
Anyone?

I think that some apart from having a very poor grasp of business theory, have got literacy problems.

The best tool that you've got DJW is your brain, and at least you are asking the right questions.Of course different strategies work. Matt's is okay, he aquired a 20yr old round that is mainly in one street, trads the bottoms, and is prepared to have a cuppa with 80yr olds that don't see a soul from one week to the next.(are these the same ones that send him home with a guilt complex when it's raining?).

So different strategies work, and some work better than others. What drives our business at the minute is change. The internet for one, with widespread broadband and online payments you no longer need to collect. Changes in technology- although wfp has been around for about ten years it has now gained widespread acceptance and the kit is cheap and it works. Changes in legislation WAHD means ladders are no longer the first option. I could go on.

Dia, and Matt, and Me, and you are all beneficaries of this. But which of us really takes advantage? Dia in his £350 van? Matt with his make do pole?

Buying a 30k setup isn't an option for you at the moment, and it's an extreme example, but it is something you should aspire to.

[Wayne Thomas]

The person who's got their head screwed on right is the one who turns up regularly, clean and presentable, in an approachable manner, who does the job efficiently.
If you turn up in a brand new vehicle some customers think you're charging them too much to be able to afford a new vehicle. If you turn up in an old clapped old banger some customers may think you are a dole cheat of disrepute, so the happy medium is a clean, presentable, roadworthy vehicle that looks like it's been taxed and MOT'd so the customer thinks you'll turn up again.

[Nathanael Jones]

Each to their own lads,... its all down to how you personally want to run your business,... if you want to expand, if you're getting big commercial contracts, then you'll obviously make different decisions than if you're happy tipping away at your established domestic round.
I don't think that there is a better or worse way, and definitely not a right or wrong way in a general sense,... it can only be better or worse/ right or wrong for you personally and your unique business.

[matt]

The best tool that you've got DJW is your brain, and at least you are asking the right questions.Of course different strategies work. Matt's is okay, he aquired a 20yr old round that is mainly in one street, trads the bottoms, and is prepared to have a cuppa with 80yr olds that don't see a soul from one week to the next.(are these the same ones that send him home with a guilt complex when it's raining?).

that cup of tea brings a little joy to some1's life, its not so much  mine, as i know deep down i should be out earning, but hey,i get a little warn glow inside knowing ive made some1's day as ive taken a little time out for a chat



Dia, and Matt, and Me, and you are all beneficaries of this. But which of us really takes advantage? Dia in his £350 van? Matt with his make do pole?

my make do pole, is the lightest you wil get, i was suffering from a bad neck, for allmost a year, but hey, i guess thats my fault in someway, it stopped when i went to disney for my holiday, then a few weeks after i returned it was back, i had to do something, give up the work or look for idea's, now i had known about Jeff's pole for a long time, but im of the opinion that if its not broke, dont fix it, so i was happy with the unger pole, i changed to the fishing pole and asits so light its solved my neck pain, i can honestly say , my pole has nothing to do with money, nothing to do with making-do, its all about lightness

Buying a 30k setup isn't an option for you at the moment, and it's an extreme example, but it is something you should aspire to.

i know this isnt directed at me ( as i guess you will say im too cheap and too much of a waster for such a system ), but you can aspire to owning a 30 K setup, i will aspire to living life and enjoying it ( that 30 K will come in handy in my quest for lifes enjoyment

i felt the need to reply,

[Village Gleam]

My strategy is always to have a strategy, even when it's wrong. The internet,technology,double income families, upvc making the job easier, cons and gutter cleans rapidly expanding our service base, legislation legitimising us........

I'm just giving the theory.

DJW the truth is that despite the bad days, you have a tiger by tail, don't let go.

[L.J.Thorpe]

Buying a 30k setup isn't an option for you at the moment, and it's an extreme example, but it is something you should aspire to.

i dont want to cause a fight but ....why should we want to aspire to that? Personally i like to keep my overheads as low as possible,i hate spending any more on my gear than i have to.Its like saying we should all aspire to owning a range rover when in the majority of situations a mondeo will do the job just as well

[matt]

Buying a 30k setup isn't an option for you at the moment, and it's an extreme example, but it is something you should aspire to.

i dont want to cause a fight but ....why should we want to aspire to that? Personally i like to keep my overheads as low as possible,i hate spending any more on my gear than i have to.Its like saying we should all aspire to owning a range rover when in the majority of situations a mondeo will do the job just as well

but thats the thing, some do aspire to owning a 30 K system  : :

[jonah]

Matt isnt it best to let each person decide whats best for them ? Loudest boxes make the most noise ?

[L.J.Thorpe]

i can think of a shed load of ways to spend 30k but buying work gear aint one of em

[L.J.Thorpe]

Matt isnt it best to let each person decide whats best for them ? Loudest boxes make the most noise ?

shouldnt that be empty boxes?

[Jeff Brimble]

Aye you can take a horse to water but cannot make it drink- even if the water costs £10/litre  by the time it goes through your system

[jonah]

Yeah you can dream of spending 30k lol mr thorpe .

[L.J.Thorpe]

jonah are you on the gluebag again

[jonah]

I am offended  was just trying to have a laugh and you accuse me of sniffing glue ! I used to like you 

[L.J.Thorpe]

Yeah you can dream of spending 30k lol mr thorpe .

para phrasing george best , i would spend it on whisky women and fast cars ,the rest? ...i would just waste it

[Village Gleam]

It's empty vessels that make the most noise, not empty boxes Jonah, you dipstick.

I don't see why any of you should have it easy. When I started this biz I had to step way out of my comfort zone and I'm now getting very close to nailing it. These arguments believe it or not are my way of helping.

I'd like to see Matt re-envigorated with a sence of purpose. That purpose being money. If I was nearby and In his circle of friends I know i could do it. Possibly a little peer pressure etc .

George Best? Career over at twenty eight, with his talent I'd have been playing past forty and money and women wouldn't have been an issue,

[L.J.Thorpe]

if money is all that gives you a sense of purpose mate then knock yourself out

[jonah]

And thanks for calling me a dipstick ! I know my place now 

[L.J.Thorpe]

sticking out the sump joking mate

[Village Gleam]

I thought about glue sniffing dipstick but thought it was a bit harsh. It was a joke Jonah.
You did infer that I was an empty box.

[jonah]

Sorry I just want to join in and feel loved !

[mark dew]

And thanks for calling me a dipstick ! I know my place now 

lol another one who mr solubility has got scratching their head for a while.
But he is certainly one of the sharper knives in the CIU box. And i don't mean for cutting comments either.  

[Wayne Thomas]

The squabbles on here are more entertaining than Eastenders, (that's not hard to beat).

[jonah]

For the record I think its unfair to knock somone who is trying whichever way ! The good thing about this forum is you can decide for yourself from reading the posts , like the saying goes "you cant buy experience "  Also think it is best to not to get personal .

Sorry if any one took offence as the above says I only give my opinion , never get personal ( how can i ever as I dont even know you ) .

[geefree]

If i had the money, i would buy the best gear for my business, , if i employed men, they also would have the best gear,

I will eventually too, and why wouldnt i?.... i want my business to run like clockwork, i dont want to cut corners eventually, i want reliable equipment that will last ,

In the world of professionals nothing but the best is good enough,

At the moment i am using what i can afford and its fine, as i move on my working equipment will get better until i have the best..... why not?

Mr Hilton did not make do with a bed and breakfast joint,

[ronnie paton]

30K ia alot to spend but it must of been cost effective otherwise it could put there busines in serious jepordy.
But i say unifom and aneat sighn written van a website all create a good image of atrustworthy business and no t just some cow boy(not intended for anyone)but yes some people dont care but they are the type of eople that ask me for a quote and say there other window cleaners is unreliable and poor and when i ask how much he charges they say £3.50 haha NO WONDER LOVE!

[xxmattyxx]

jonah are you on the gluebag again

 

[Village Gleam]

You asked the question Gazza, where have all the real cleaners gone?

You didn't really get an answer, untill now.........

The answer is that the real cleaners are here, they always have been, it's just that their names have changed. It's you gazzasp8, now you're the real cleaner.

[pjulk]

I THOUGHT THAT WAS A REAL FLY ON MY SCREEN LOL. LOL.

 

[geefree]

I THOUGHT THAT WAS A REAL FLY ON MY SCREEN LOL. LOL.

 

Lol it still looks bloody real that.

[L.J.Thorpe]

You asked the question Gazza, where have all the real cleaners gone?

You didn't really get an answer, untill now.........

The answer is that the real cleaners are here, they always have been, it's just that their names have changed. It's you gazzasp8, now you're the real cleaner.

calm down dear its just a concurrence of opinion

[geefree]

You asked the question Gazza, where have all the real cleaners gone?

You didn't really get an answer, untill now.........

The answer is that the real cleaners are here, they always have been, it's just that their names have changed. It's you gazzasp8, now you're the real cleaner.

Well Thank you Mr Solubility,

Im very inexperienced regarding this business, BUSINESS...because thats how i think we have to look at it, otherwise it cant work, for me anyway.

But as some have said, if they can work it on a string budget thats fine, but i dont see any point in standing still and staying there,

i use a percentage of what i earn to put back in and buy something a little bit better every now and then,
 so eventually i will have what i need .

Im not really an  opinionated type but i do believe in doing things right,

Thanks for your comment, i feel like i have graduated now. lol

Gary.

[matt]

Matt isnt it best to let each person decide whats best for them ? Loudest boxes make the most noise ?

It's empty vessels that make the most noise, not empty boxes Jonah, you dipstick.

is it only me who finds this funny oh the ironey

[L.J.Thorpe]

my 2 pennorth, mr s i dont know how you got into this business so i can only make assumptions. Did you have a redundancy payment? inherit? or is it all on finance?i did not realise you were in first year,what did you do before? you obviously thought about this investment before you made it and i hope it comes good ,personally i was never in a position to acquire funds like that and started out trad for well under a grand which included buying some work .I had a living wage (in theory ) from the beginning but not much more . i have built up gradually and will continue to do so but i have different values and dont think that expensive kit and a slick image adds as much value to your business as some might think,my round works on trust as much as anything and iam quite happy that way

[mustafa]

I went out looking for a van prepared to spend £3.500. I came back with a very tidy M reg escort for £250. {He gave me £100 for the old one]. This is a very clean van, hardly a mark on it.

My customers don't know the difference between a new Unger carbon, or a £15 B&Q pole.
To them I am just good old 100% reliable Dai, who has an ex directory phone number, and no Yellow pages listing.
The buggers still track me down asking if I can clean their windows. They get my number from my existing customers.
I have work coming out of my ears, it takes at least 5 weeks of fine weather to get round.
So, why the hell would I want to spend a fortune on a brand new all singing, dancing, hot water system.
Who do I want to impress? I'm 65 years old and living well off my reputation.
No matter what system you have, at the end of the day you are going to need to talk to perspective customers, and that determines whether or not. you get the job
Your own personality will always be the determining factor, presenting yourself as an honest sincere person will get you more work than a £25,000 system. Trust me. Dai

he is right

[bluesteve]

surely if people are that obsessed by money they ought to give up window cleaning, go back to school(college) and get a job in the city. If they are that dynamic it should be no problem.
 dont give me  that poop that you re from a council estate etc etc, plenty that have done it are from there but dont always admit it!
    £70,00  a year piece of p for city types so all you braggarts, surely theres better earnings out there, you sound as though you could survive in that cut and thrust enviroment as for me im just not "dynamic"  enough!
"up the corps"

[bluesteve]

that should read £70,000 a year

[geefree]

surely if people are that obsessed by money they ought to give up window cleaning, go back to school(college) and get a job in the city. If they are that dynamic it should be no problem.
 dont give me  that poop that you re from a council estate etc etc, plenty that have done it are from there but dont always admit it!
    £70,00  a year piece of p for city types so all you braggarts, surely theres better earnings out there, you sound as though you could survive in that cut and thrust enviroment as for me im just not "dynamic"  enough!
"up the corps"

I Think i once read on here that people have left city jobs to become window cleaners, that might explain why some believe it to be a business, and thrive , and some class it as beer money. and dont.

[matt]

surely if people are that obsessed by money they ought to give up window cleaning, go back to school(college) and get a job in the city. If they are that dynamic it should be no problem.
 dont give me  that poop that you re from a council estate etc etc, plenty that have done it are from there but dont always admit it!
    £70,00  a year piece of p for city types so all you braggarts, surely theres better earnings out there, you sound as though you could survive in that cut and thrust enviroment as for me im just not "dynamic"  enough!
"up the corps"

I Think i once read on here that people have left city jobs to become window cleaners, that might explain why some believe it to be a business, and thrive , and some class it as beer money. and dont.

do you know, ive not in all the years on here read a post from a " beer money" person, not once

[macmac]

Someone with the £30,000 (roughly) brand new van and say Ionics thermal set up with carbon poles, embroidered uniform, wrapped van and all the gubbings..............
or someone like Dai, for example £300 van i think he said and a £15 pole. Both capable of doing the same domestic work using the same methods. One of the two is pretty obviously going to have a much shorter relaxed working week than the other to take home the same money.




p.s. hope you don't mind me making an example of you Dai. No way is this intended to take anything away from you.

Better poles will make your work so much easier, that's fact. so you can work faster, more accurately with less strain & which all helps do a better job. wear smart work clothes, be polite, friendly & price well to earn good money. you must have confidence in yourself & your work. a decent van is fine ( not a rust bucket but not an all singing 20k job either ).

Now, we start work-
I flick a switch, 30k man flicks a switch & guess what? we can both clean windows the same way, not one any better than the other :

If 30k man feels he or she needs such an investment/profile to make top money then thats fine. Ionics & the like wouldn't exist without the gullible.
I personally don't, i've done it without, like Mr.Sol said. your brain is your best tool (or something) It makes very good business sense not to give 30 grand away for something you can get for 6 or 7k (& less).

I do like Mr.Sol's posts though, it reminds me how successful i'v been so far.

Tony

[mark dew]

i reckon a good wc with wfp putting in the same hours as a lot of these city jobs would be earning 70k a year anyway. Without the peer pressure, the afterwork drinking and without the same stress.

[geefree]

surely if people are that obsessed by money they ought to give up window cleaning, go back to school(college) and get a job in the city. If they are that dynamic it should be no problem.
 dont give me that poop that you re from a council estate etc etc, plenty that have done it are from there but dont always admit it!
 £70,00 a year piece of p for city types so all you braggarts, surely theres better earnings out there, you sound as though you could survive in that cut and thrust enviroment as for me im just not "dynamic" enough!
"up the corps"

I Think i once read on here that people have left city jobs to become window cleaners, that might explain why some believe it to be a business, and thrive , and some class it as beer money. and dont.

do you know, ive not in all the years on here read a post from a " beer money" person, not once

but we all know they are out there.

[L.J.Thorpe]

I Think i once read on here that people have left city jobs to become window cleaners, that might explain why some believe it to be a business, and thrive , and some class it as beer money. and dont.

it might also mean that they got stressed out and ped off working in the city...hmm, we are all in this for our own reasons and they are all equally  valid

[bluesteve]

has anyone else been on the vino apart from me

[geefree]

I Think i once read on here that people have left city jobs to become window cleaners, that might explain why some believe it to be a business, and thrive , and some class it as beer money. and dont.

it might also mean that they got stressed out and ped off working in the city...hmm, we are all in this for our own reasons and they are all equally  valid

True.

[L.J.Thorpe]

i reckon a good wc with wfp putting in the same hours as a lot of these city jobs would be earning 70k a year anyway. Without the peer pressure, the afterwork drinking and without the same stress.

i thought the afterwork drinking was a perk

has anyone else been on the vino apart from me

no some lager from tesco "boheme 1795" 16 x 500ml for 9 quid bottle number 9

[matt]

Better poles will make your work so much easier, that's fact. so you can work faster, more accurately with less strain & which all helps do a better job. wear smart work clothes, be polite, friendly & price well to earn good money. you must have confidence in yourself & your work. a decent van is fine ( not a rust bucket but not an all singing 20k job either ).

tony, ref better poles, i think "lighter poles" is more apt do you have a pole in mind 

Now, we start work-
I flick a switch, 30k man flicks a switch & guess what? we can both clean windows the same way, not one any better than the other :


Tony

what if your cheaper switch breaks, hey hey, never thught of that did you 

If 30k man feels he or she needs such an investment/profile to make top money then thats fine. Ionics & the like wouldn't exist without the gullible.

that made me laugh, but i await the responce from the said " gullible, it'll be equally as funny

I do like Mr.Sol's posts though, it reminds me how successful i'v been so far.

Tony

i sometimes like his posts, its refeshing to read posts from such a hungry bloke, of course if he hadnt spent all his money on kit, he might be abe to eat .....boom boom

[TennetClean]

LOL you will never ever convince the cobble-together merchants that it is worth investing in their business and their image.

Fine with me, thats what separates the men from the boys.

I wouldnt spend £30k outright, that would be a poor cash-flow decision.  I'd lease it over 5 years.  Also £30k would buy a system and van big enough for a team of three.  Unnecessary.  Could get a 600 litre hot water system and brand new van for more like £22k which would be a good size for somebody doing domestic on his own with the occasional helper.

Over 5 years the payments for that would be in the region of ...umm....bout £350 a month something like that.  No problem at all to earn that back in 2 working days even on domestic.  And you have the peace of mind of knowing you have the best kit available and a nice new van.  And after 5 years its yours.

Easy decision.

But for some reason lots of people on here still dont consider window cleaning to be a business, they consider it like shoe shining and dont expect to pay nothing out in capital.  thats why joe public still has a poor image of window cleaners.  (Except me, they think I'm fabulous)

[matt]

^
!
!
!

If 30k man feels he or she needs such an investment/profile to make top money then thats fine. Ionics & the like wouldn't exist without the gullible.

speak of the devil

[L.J.Thorpe]

reasons why i do this job: i start when i want .i finish when i want  .if i want to go home for dinner i do  . if i want to give the missus a portion after dinner i do   (rare admittedly).if i want a day off ....fishing,shopping,shooting,garden,hangover,car trouble,depression,sex,illness....whatever,then i can and i dont have to phone anyone up and check if its ok .if i dont like you i dont have to clean your windows .......you get the drift .money aint my god....but if its yours then fair play ,go for it ,just dont tell me i should as well

[macmac]

LOL you will never ever convince the cobble-together merchants that it is worth investing in their business and their image.

Fine with me, thats what separates the men from the boys.

I wouldnt spend £30k outright, that would be a poor cash-flow decision.  I'd lease it over 5 years.  Also £30k would buy a system and van big enough for a team of three.  Unnecessary.  Could get a 600 litre hot water system and brand new van for more like £22k which would be a good size for somebody doing domestic on his own with the occasional helper.

Over 5 years the payments for that would be in the region of ...umm....bout £350 a month something like that.  No problem at all to earn that back in 2 working days even on domestic.  And you have the peace of mind of knowing you have the best kit available and a nice new van.  And after 5 years its yours.

Easy decision.

But for some reason lots of people on here still dont consider window cleaning to be a business, they consider it like shoe shining and dont expect to pay nothing out in capital.  thats why joe public still has a poor image of window cleaners.  (Except me, they think I'm fabulous)

So if i earn more than you in less worked hours & i've not spent 20 odd or 30k who's the numpty then?

I run a successful business, i'm professional, i don't shine shoes etc.etc.

Tony ( not richard craneum )

[matt]

 i don't shine shoes etc.etc.

you sure your not tommy ?? ? ?

[TennetClean]

How do you know you earn more than me in less hours worked?

speak of the devil

As I said.  Convincing cobble merchants anything is flogging a dead hoss. 

[xxmattyxx]

I find reading these kinds of posts that those that have invested at the higher end of the financial scale tend to have a rather black and white opinion of how things should be run. They come across as believing in how they run their business and also seem to believe it is the only way

If you havent invested as heavily as those then you appear to be thought of as unprofessional.

It isnt quite so clear cut as that.

Personally I find that black and white attitude far more unprofessional than the majority.
If I need to get a quote for some work done on my house I might get 3 quotes and opt for the guy who isnt the flash-boy with the smartest vehicle and biggest ego nor the guy who appears to be less than adequately equiped, but the guy who comes in with the mid-range quote who is friendly, has a satisfactory name for himself, polite, talks with confidence but without arrogance and gives me a sense of being capable in what he's doing.

Matt

[karygate]

i worked in a warehouse on good money for idiots for fifteen years . now i go to work three days a week , about 15 hours in total. do not have a great income but its building , and i am finally in control of what i do and when . also the wife now works with me instead of her 45 hours a week bad job . we are not scruffy but if we wanted to earn great amounts there must be an easier way to do it ,but the lifestyle is great and the people we meet every day (except the odd one ) make it all worth while. different people want different things and i know my heads screwed on.

[matt]

How do you know you earn more than me in less hours worked?

speak of the devil

As I said.  Convincing cobble merchants anything is flogging a dead horse

you might have to have extra sidelines " want your driveway done mr ?? ?? " but i dont touch cobble stones on driveways

im busy enough thanks

[L.J.Thorpe]

I find reading these kinds of posts that those that have invested at the higher end of the financial scale tend to have a rather black and white opinion of how things should be run. They come across as believing in how they run their business and also seem to believe it is the only way

If you havent invested as heavily as those then you appear to be thought of as unprofessional.

It isnt quite so clear cut as that.

Personally I find that black and white attitude far more unprofessional than the majority.
If I need to get a quote for some work done on my house I might get 3 quotes and opt for the guy who isnt the flash-boy with the smartest vehicle and biggest ego nor the guy who appears to be less than adequately equiped, but the guy who comes in with the mid-range quote who is friendly, has a satisfactory name for himself, polite, talks with confidence but without arrogance and gives me a sense of being capable in what he's doing.

Matt

what he said and then some

[TennetClean]

matt, no offense mate but you seems to think your some kind of a champion of the poor people.  LOL its business not a charity.  encouraging people to go the cobble together route does not help the public image of window cleaners or efp for that matter.

I saw a window cleaner guy the other week who was fannying around with water barrells in a van or something else equally stupid.  Its because of people like that that some customers are reluctant to accept wfp, because idiots cobble stuff together and make it look crap and usually do a rubbish job.

if you arent going to do it properly dont bother IMO

[macmac]

How do you know you earn more than me in less hours worked?

speak of the devil

As I said.  Convincing cobble merchants anything is flogging a dead hoss. 

I didn't say i did (or do you struggle with written content)
But how do you know i don't?

tony

[TennetClean]

no i dont struggle with written content macmac, I struggle with people who don't make sense.  I dont know what you earn, and I dont much care.  If you dont think investing in your business is worthwhile thats up to you.

[L.J.Thorpe]

LOL you will never ever convince the cobble-together merchants that it is worth investing in their business and their image.

Fine with me, thats what separates the men from the boys.

I wouldnt spend £30k outright, that would be a poor cash-flow decision. I'd lease it over 5 years. Also £30k would buy a system and van big enough for a team of three. Unnecessary. Could get a 600 litre hot water system and brand new van for more like £22k which would be a good size for somebody doing domestic on his own with the occasional helper.

Over 5 years the payments for that would be in the region of ...umm....bout £350 a month something like that. No problem at all to earn that back in 2 working days even on domestic. And you have the peace of mind of knowing you have the best kit available and a nice new van. And after 5 years its yours.

Easy decision.

But for some reason lots of people on here still dont consider window cleaning to be a business, they consider it like shoe shining and dont expect to pay nothing out in capital. thats why joe public still has a poor image of window cleaners. (Except me, they think I'm fabulous)

1:after 5 years your more than welcome to your "nice new van". 2:every month you pay out 350 quid more than me in overheads....for what exactly?. 3: the "best kit available"  still breaks down it just costs more to fix. 4: no one thinks your fabulous except you....they just think your their window cleaner

[macmac]

matt, no offense mate but you seems to think your some kind of a champion of the poor people.  LOL its business not a charity.  encouraging people to go the cobble together route does not help the public image of window cleaners or efp for that matter.

I saw a window cleaner guy the other week who was fannying around with water barrells in a van or something else equally stupid.  Its because of people like that that some customers are reluctant to accept wfp, because idiots cobble stuff together and make it look crap and usually do a rubbish job.

if you arent going to do it properly dont bother IMO

This is what ionics say just before "sign here"
Then, when you leave they jump up & down pi**ing with laughter while rubbing their hands chanting "there's one born every minute"
 

Anyway, off to bed to dream about 20,000Ltr hot systems & 40ft scanias.

Tony

[L.J.Thorpe]

whats EFP anyway effluent fed pole perhaps

window cleaners or efp

[macmac]

no i dont struggle with written content macmac, I struggle with people who don't make sense.  I dont know what you earn, and I dont much care.  If you dont think investing in your business is worthwhile thats up to you.

I do beleive in investing in my business but only the right, smart investments.

Tony

[L.J.Thorpe]

get ready for some serious typing

[L.J.Thorpe]

come on get on with it 

[L.J.Thorpe]

bump and goodnight......

[*foxman]

Someone with the £30,000 (roughly) brand new van and say Ionics thermal set up with carbon poles, embroidered uniform, wrapped van and all the gubbings..............
or someone like Dai, for example £300 van i think he said and a £15 pole. Both capable of doing the same domestic work using the same methods. One of the two is pretty obviously going to have a much shorter relaxed working week than the other to take home the same money.

The guy running around in a banger with cheap equipment is probably making as much money as he needs and isn't too bothered, means to an end mentality - nothing wrong with that.

The guy who spent £30000 on a hot wash system and is mainly doing domestic chances are he is not really a clued in business man, more of an ego/vanity trip or plainly mislead by 'promises' from the salesman. Unless of course they see the job as a hobby also and just want all the mod cons as they are 'into it'.

The bigger compaines couldn't care less what system they have as long as its reliable and makes them money. Thats why they all have new vans - not so much to do with image more to do with finances and reliablity, and you wont see them with modified fishing poles, etc and they need tools which wont let them down on the job.

[pjulk]

TennetClean said -

I saw a window cleaner guy the other week who was fannying around with water barrells in a van or something else equally stupid

What wrong with water barrels a lot of window cleaners use water barrels.
Not everyone has the money to get the best so they get what they can afford or maybe they are getting a cheaper or DIY system to see if WFP is for them.

At the end of the day they are still doing exactly the same job as you so who cares.

[frames to panes]

For me, the only area worth spending good money on is the pole itself, the main tool you have to use everyday. The van? if what you have is reliable, does the job then why change? The ro? just a filtering system no point in overspending there. The logo? only needed if your new and it can be done for sixty quid.
 My brother  in law is a builder, always stacked out with work, all his life. Shiney van, leasing etc would not even enter his head. He does however buy decent tools now and again when needed. He has never advertised in his life. I think the whole leasing concept is purely to make money for the big suppliers and is a reflection of the have it now - pay for it tomorrow society we have been brainwashed into. This is only my opinion and the way i see it, so whatever route you go down then fair play to you. After all i could be totally wrong.