[Fox]

Phil

The two instances that I posted were completely different cleaners, different buildings and different times!  Why do you think I'd changed my story?  Did you not read my posts right?  They are both different examples of an alarm situation.  (not that you are reading this so it doesn't matter!).

I asked for opinions on what would you do not your opinion on what sort of company I run. 

BSF

I did speak to the client regarding reset codes and she said she was going to try to get software to make this possible but at present the alarm company unfortunately has to deal with it. 

Fox

[DP]

The replies are interesting in respect of how people view things. I am not surprised that people say that you should pay, as it seems to be the right thing to do on the face of it. So pay up Fox you meeenie  lol

Seriously though:
There does seem to be other things to consider and not least is: can any contract sustain an open cheque book on this type of thing? Of course not and therefore there has to be limitations.

Risks and liabilities effect the value of any contract, and it simply isn’t good enough to say “oh ill pay for this or that if it goes wrong” irrespective of any moral issues.

Clients cannot exonerate themselves from responsibility, just because they buy in a service unless that service is specifically about a particular risk, which by the way is supported in law.

Cleaning contracts rarely include a full building security package due to the exceptional costs it would involve and you could argue that it is immoral for a client to expect this responsibility from a cleaning company free of charge.

No point saying that paying is the only thing to do as that just demonstrates a lack of thought (something which is rampant on here). For those who disagree, would you pay an alarm reset fee of say £500, if not then why not, does this suddenly become immoral based on cost or could it be that you couldn’t afford it. When does it become  not ok ( I love hypocrisy, there is so much to work with). 

Phill:
I’m also not surprised at the response you got, "Cowboys". Could you not answer any of my posts as well thanks lol.




 

[D woods]

Hi Everyone
If this was to happen to me now, I would decide how much I wanted the customer . Because if they ask you to pay and you dont (because its in your
terms and conditions) at best you will sour your relationship with the client,
or worst case lose the contract.

[Art]

hi fox, if it happened i would feel i should pay, now this may through a spanner in the works , my hubby was reading  /looking in to security and keyholders last week and we were discussing the point ,that a new law out now saying anyone who is a keyholder now is responable for sceruity so therefore needs to hold a badge for secutiry, there is a site for it but i cant seem to find it for you. even though i took out keyholders insurance i will have to ring them up to see am i covered because of this new law out, may not have anything to do with us lot but just a thought

Think your getting confused, keyholders that have to hold a badge for security, are people in the security industry.
It's all part of the license issue that's going on in the security industry, not cleaning.

Arthur

[Fox]

I have decided to meet with the client half way and offer to pay some of the bill without accepting liability.  I will write a letter to the effect that the payment represents a goodwill gesture and does not admit liability.

I intend to add another clause in our contract regarding alarm systems.

I fully believe that if I paid up and accepted full reponsibility the client can have a field day with charges, the line has to be drawn.

People on here seem to be of the opinion that if we do not pay then we risk losing the contract, it's a very valid point, however how many of you want to feel like you are being held to ransom - 'do this or else'!  We provide a high quality cleaning service for a cost, if we were going to take on full liability for extras then we would charge retrospectively, however as a 'cleaning company' and as discussed many times before, clients will not pay for these services. 

I am speaking with the client on Monday and shall let you know their take on the situation, thanks for all your replies guys they have been very helpful.

Fox
 

[BSF]

Hi Fox and all,

Fox if it was me having the meeting in the same situation as you,

I would make two main points to the customer:

1.   Question the alarm company for feeling they should charge, for something that is very simple to do.
2.   Would the customer deduct the cost from a member of their own staff for a simple mistake.

Everybody is human; mistakes are made from time to time.

If it was really my contract, their would be a third point: You signed our terms and conditions that included failure for our employees to commission security systems.

Arthur,

Paul,

Your T & C can protect you in an nasty event and that is very good, but sometimes it would be better to pay in order to retain a good relationship with your customer.  The Fox's case is one of where I would pay.  Just my view on this particular case.

Regards,

Arthur

------------------------------

Added later:

Paul, what about PL insurance should you not refer to it in case of "disaster" instead of relaying on your T & C?  My guess is that in same cases of loss caused by your membe of staff you could be taken to court and your T & C would not protect you.

Regards,

Arthur

I’d hardly call this a disaster, t & c’s sometimes aren’t worth the paper their written on, but I could safely say that if the customer wanted to take me to court for this particular matter, I would win.

My public liability insurance is in place for a reason, not for this matter, I would not be held to ransom and wouldn’t pay the costs, I also would have a legally binding contract with the customer so they would have to honour payment for the rest of the contract if they decided to terminate it on the due date, good luck to them.

Regards

Paul

[Fox]

Paul

Interesting points, I did initially ask the client if an employee who was a keyholder would get it docked from their wages but decided that as a contractor it wasn't really appropriate for me to use that argument.

You bring up a good point about the alarm company, I did say that theirs was the only system I had come across that had to call out an alarm company to do a simple reset for an 'aborted lock up' (their words), that's when she mentioned getting new software.  I also feel that £80 per call out is over the top.  Most alarm companies charge between £35 and £50.  DP made a good point - how much is too much?

Fox

[D woods]

HI BSF
I agree with you that if you have a leaglly binding contract the client will have
to pay the alarm company , and not you. But do you think from a business point of view it is worth losing a valuable contract over.

[BSF]

HI BSF
I agree with you that if you have a leaglly binding contract the client will have
to pay the alarm company , and not you. But do you think from a business point of view it is worth losing a valuable contract over.

If it was my company in this situation of course I would consider the implications of refusing to foot the bill, I would have to ask myself how much I need the contract, is it important, but paying for something like this could then open the floodgates for this customer to try and charge me for every little thing they decided to blame my employee/s for, believe me they would, as I said I do find it very hard to believe that they could be charged by the alarm company anyway for a very simple procedure, if it was my alarm I’d get a new one that would enable me to reset it myself, or from a phone call to my provider.

My main point of posting on the topic started by Fox was: change your terms and conditions to suit your business, question the charge!

Regards

Paul   

[Fox]

Hi all

Spoke with my client yesterday and she is quite happy to accept half of the payment for the alarm call outs. 

Thanks for all your replies to this subject.

Fox

[Tim Downer]

.....and that's how a well run cleaning company is......well, run.....when you can talk to the client and get it sorted with no arguements and complications.

I found this post a very interesting read, and have made a few notes for my reference, and was a bit confused on many of the comments from some of our posters.

Many have argued about "whether to pay.....or not to pay" .....  "should you consider getting rid of the contract or not...." all for a £50 - £80 charge??
A feeling of ..... "well, i'm not going to pay it!!!!....so there.....its all the clients fault" etc etc

Well, none of you mentioned about just talking to the client......because as Fox seems to have, you should already have a good relationship with the client and when problems like this occur, you should be able to approach the client and talk about it (over a cup of coffee!!)

But having said that, i have found a few posts to be of interest and have made some notes to change any future T & C's

Obviously, the above was my own ramblings and thoughts on the matter        and wish every one all the best in doing things their way 

(This is after all my first day cutting down on the coffee intake  and have not had one yet.....have been drinking green tea all day  and am treating myself to a coffee at lunchtime )

Kind Regards

Tim