[The Jester of Wibbly]

As per title. 

I Have been toying with the idea to go hot. I think the benefits would only be for working in freezing conditions to avoid down time.   Warm hands is a nice perk but i see that's  an expensive pair of gloves     Also I see people saying it's not any better for cleaning other than a slight speed increase on those tough stains.

I can t use an emersion heater as I
 was advised against using them on my grippa tank.

So gas or diesel ?

What's the better method for cost and safety.  I have heard some horror stories with gas. Ventilation, fire saftey, and insurance.  However the diesel options seems a very expensive method just to keep your hands warm whilst keeping you working on those very few cold spells.

So what works for you?  How much have you spent ?  Was it worth it?  Any regrets?  Any advise /opinions?

[dazmond]

dont bother mate.ive spent £££s on gas,heaters and all the faffing about etc over the years.its not worth it IMO.

its simply not needed for day to day maintenance window cleaning.cold pure is just fine.as for winter working you can work down to -2 with a cold system(any lower then its time to sack the day off or go out later).

you wont be any quicker either over the course of a day.its a myth.do you really think your gonna clean an extra 3 or 4 houses in the same time?nope you wont.

for add on jobs then i use chemicals(virosol,cif etc)

i must of spent over 2k on heating my water up the last few years.(including buying heaters,hose,etc)

[nathankaye]

Its a shame you cant use an immersion. I use a 2kw one whichbis ok for normal plug use.
For the add on jobs i do find the use of hot water on its own is more quicker than the use of chemicals.
All the years on trad i used just normal squirty on a brush for conny roofs and a touchbof squirty on a brush using extendable pole.
Its only since using this forum have i tried all the recommended chemicals to supposedly make the job quicker. Ive experimented with them all and found just hot water is quicker by far n scrubbing. Chemicals help but by the time youve done all the rinsing off etc you would have been quicker with just a good brush n hot water.

[brianbarber]

Just have the hydroheat fitted.
Job done

Mr B

[dazmond]

Its a shame you cant use an immersion. I use a 2kw one whichbis ok for normal plug use.
For the add on jobs i do find the use of hot water on its own is more quicker than the use of chemicals.
All the years on trad i used just normal squirty on a brush for conny roofs and a touchbof squirty on a brush using extendable pole.
Its only since using this forum have i tried all the recommended chemicals to supposedly make the job quicker. Ive experimented with them all and found just hot water is quicker by far n scrubbing. Chemicals help but by the time youve done all the rinsing off etc you would have been quicker with just a good brush n hot water.

your really trying to convince yourself arent you mate?dont worry ive too have been there,done that .i have a £120 job to do on monday morning(small 3 bed semi with a little conny on the back)full UPVC clean and conny roof plus windows.i reckon itll take 2-3 hours.they are absolutely minging.yep really hot water would help but i wouldnt be quicker overall as it just doesnt work out like that in real practical terms.

ill pre soak with virosol in a 5L pressure sprayer and then scrub away.

ive cleaned loads of add on jobs using both hot and cold water over the years and theres never been any time difference overall at all.

[CleanClear]

dont bother mate.ive spent £££s on gas,heaters and all the faffing about etc over the years.its not worth it IMO.

its simply not needed for day to day maintenance window cleaning.cold pure is just fine.as for winter working you can work down to -2 with a cold system(any lower then its time to sack the day off or go out later).

you wont be any quicker either over the course of a day.its a myth.do you really think your gonna clean an extra 3 or 4 houses in the same time?nope you wont.

for add on jobs then i use chemicals(virosol,cif etc)

i must of spent over 2k on heating my water up the last few years.(including buying heaters,hose,etc)

I think you nailed it there Daz, thats my take on hot water too.
For anyone interested in hot water by gas, i found this a little revelation. You'll need to be a little bit technical minded to follow it. Not too technical, but past the  "how do i wire a shurflo pump up, red or black " ? stage.......
http://vandogtraveller.com/gas-instant-water-heater-jet-sizes/

[the king]

ide say if you work on the coast like me get a gas heater and injoy it bird poo comes off like butter bee pollon melts off easy salt seems to rince off quicker ,if your inland and the glass is clean when you revisit then its not worth the gas unless its freezing then your pole will be warm ant toasty , also if sky lights ate froze them warm water will fall them out and you can carry on cleaning , hope this helps

[Splash & dash]

Hot water does make you a lot quicker we easily do 4 semis a day more using hot it's a lot quicker removes salt seagull poo so much quicker and easier , I was cold for 10 years wish I had changed to hot years ago don't be put off by people who use these gas shower units that are not designed for this type of work anyone who has a decent 9kw diesel heater will recommend it , however it isn't cheap to run using about 1 ltr. Per hour but I feel it's worth it especially for one offs plastic cleans and first cleans it halves the time taken , speak to Oliver at Grippatank he did mine brilliant job and workers a treat , but again it costs thousands not a couple of hundred , people expect gas shower units to work like the diesel units they won't you don't get Ferrari performance from a Nissan micra and you won't get reliable safe hot water from a £200 shower unit fact

[nathankaye]

Its a shame you cant use an immersion. I use a 2kw one whichbis ok for normal plug use.
For the add on jobs i do find the use of hot water on its own is more quicker than the use of chemicals.
All the years on trad i used just normal squirty on a brush for conny roofs and a touchbof squirty on a brush using extendable pole.
Its only since using this forum have i tried all the recommended chemicals to supposedly make the job quicker. Ive experimented with them all and found just hot water is quicker by far n scrubbing. Chemicals help but by the time youve done all the rinsing off etc you would have been quicker with just a good brush n hot water.

your really trying to convince yourself arent you mate?dont worry ive too have been there,done that .i have a £120 job to do on monday morning(small 3 bed semi with a little conny on the back)full UPVC clean and conny roof plus windows.i reckon itll take 2-3 hours.they are absolutely minging.yep really hot water would help but i wouldnt be quicker overall as it just doesnt work out like that in real practical terms.

ill pre soak with virosol in a 5L pressure sprayer and then scrub away.

ive cleaned loads of add on jobs using both hot and cold water over the years and theres never been any time difference overall at all.

Curious to know how many years a person has to be doing this job before their view becomes credible to others??
Ive cleaned that many gutters n conny roofs over many years and also last 2 years with all sorts of chemicals n detergents. To know time difference between cold / cold n detergents //  cold with use of chemicals // hot n detergents // hot with chemicals or bio wash powder ( ) and just Hot.

[jonny thompson]

Gas mate I've used it for 4 years , I'm on the second boiler £120 and use it all year round, would never work with cold again

[paul alan]

Its a shame you cant use an immersion. I use a 2kw one whichbis ok for normal plug use.
For the add on jobs i do find the use of hot water on its own is more quicker than the use of chemicals.
All the years on trad i used just normal squirty on a brush for conny roofs and a touchbof squirty on a brush using extendable pole.
Its only since using this forum have i tried all the recommended chemicals to supposedly make the job quicker. Ive experimented with them all and found just hot water is quicker by far n scrubbing. Chemicals help but by the time youve done all the rinsing off etc you would have been quicker with just a good brush n hot water.

your really trying to convince yourself arent you mate?dont worry ive too have been there,done that .i have a £120 job to do on monday morning(small 3 bed semi with a little conny on the back)full UPVC clean and conny roof plus windows.i reckon itll take 2-3 hours.they are absolutely minging.yep really hot water would help but i wouldnt be quicker overall as it just doesnt work out like that in real practical terms.

ill pre soak with virosol in a 5L pressure sprayer and then scrub away.

ive cleaned loads of add on jobs using both hot and cold water over the years and theres never been any time difference overall at all.

Curious to know how many years a person has to be doing this job before their view becomes credible to others??
Ive cleaned that many gutters n conny roofs over many years and also last 2 years with all sorts of chemicals n detergents. To know time difference between cold / cold n detergents //  cold with use of chemicals // hot n detergents // hot with chemicals or bio wash powder ( ) and just Hot.

Its all just simply a matter of "opinion's" on here. There is no right or wrong way to do things, just diffferent ways.

You know what they say" opinions are like axxeholes, and even axxholes have them"

You can take whats said on here with a pinch of salt, words are easy to type out but mean nothing. I can tell you lm sat here here with a 12" er between my legs. Doesnt mean l have though.

[nathankaye]

Haha, i was a little peeved with some esternal matter whenninwrote my response, so just came back on to delete it but should have known better, that it would have been picked up on.
So.......erm....yea cant delete said post now.
Yep, everyone of us has an opinion on what works best for them whatever the reason and thats perfectly fine. I have my experiences to compare my work and time against and so as the next man.  Again perfectly ok to do so.

So going back to main question.
For me i started of cheap as i didnt want gas due to all the worries surrounding that. Didnt want immersion as initially didnt want to be cutting holes in my tank. So i went with what i considered a cheap trial. I bought fish tank heaters. I ended up with a mix of either 500w ones and 1kw ones. (Cant remember what combo i used now as ive also got shot of em) and that git my water upto 40degrees C. I personally saw a difference in cleaning ability and main difference was both hoses became more supple which for me was a great benefit. That convinced me that going hot was way forward and converted my tank with a 2kw immersion. Depending on running times n start temp, ive had water upto 70 degrees.
Point of this waffle..........i started of relatively cheap for trials to see if i liked it and the potential results. Perhaps a cheap trial to see the same. A relatively cheap mobile shower unit and a bottle of gas (under save conditions n usage obviously)??

[dazmond]

Hot water does make you a lot quicker we easily do 4 semis a day more using hot it's a lot quicker removes salt seagull poo so much quicker and easier , I was cold for 10 years wish I had changed to hot years ago don't be put off by people who use these gas shower units that are not designed for this type of work anyone who has a decent 9kw diesel heater will recommend it , however it isn't cheap to run using about 1 ltr. Per hour but I feel it's worth it especially for one offs plastic cleans and first cleans it halves the time taken , speak to Oliver at Grippatank he did mine brilliant job and workers a treat , but again it costs thousands not a couple of hundred , people expect gas shower units to work like the diesel units they won't you don't get Ferrari performance from a Nissan micra and you won't get reliable safe hot water from a £200 shower unit fact

Maybe if your work is by the coast.sorry I should of said.

There is no way you ll  do 4 houses more with hot water a day working inland.it just doesn't work out like that.

I've timed myself on exactly the same work both hot and cold.no time saving whatsoever.same for add on jobs.

[AuRavelling79]

For my kind of work - 95% regular window cleaning cleans I benefit from an immersion heater.

I put it in after the really cold winter of 2010, purely to keep things from freezing. The benefits I have found are that in winter I use the warm water for this primarily on colder days ( I live in Bristol so being south and west, temperatures are rarely too bad) but also get the following -

1. Able to work in zero to about -3 temperatures
2. Supple hoses. (As to opposed to hoses being stiff and hard to manage)

A handful of times a year I have chosen to warm up water to a higher temperature for a specific job (but as I tend to avoid these as they are "hard work", then this is not the main reason)

They are: A pair of schools I clean every six months. Occasional minging conservatory roof or gutter soffit cleans.

I also have an outside hot tap for normal TDS water which I have filled my tank with hot water to do the plastic cladding on one of my customers who has a small industrial unit.
 

[windowswashed]

Could always use  'Gaslow' refillable LPG, top up at some forecourts where you buy petrol, but only the oness that have an inlet tube to refil from outside the van as garages won't let you fill cylinders that are loose as people in the past have tried filling cylinders which don't shut off at 80% volume which then become fire hazards at garages. LPG refillable saves the hassle of exchanging half empty butane or propane cylinders and the extra running costs considerably

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Would be great to a see a supplier who can introduce an immersion system for their tanks.   

Not sure if it would work but how about replacing the tank lid with a lid that's equipped with an immersion element fixed to it.   Equipped with a spacer at the top  measuring to tank depth to ensure element is close to the bottom. 

Would it work ?

[nathankaye]

Would be great to a see a supplier who can introduce an immersion system for their tanks.   

Not sure if it would work but how about replacing the tank lid with a lid that's equipped with an immersion element fixed to it.   Equipped with a spacer at the top  measuring to tank depth to ensure element is close to the bottom. 

Would it work ?

It would be a good idea for companies to incorporate an immersion.

I did wonder about fitting my immersion through the top of my tank like the old water tanks in houses. But i thought better of it due to the dimensions of the tank and thermal circulation,  unlike the cylinder water tanks in houses.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Would be great to a see a supplier who can introduce an immersion system for their tanks.   

Not sure if it would work but how about replacing the tank lid with a lid that's equipped with an immersion element fixed to it.   Equipped with a spacer at the top  measuring to tank depth to ensure element is close to the bottom. 

Would it work ?

It would be a good idea for companies to incorporate an immersion.

I did wonder about fitting my immersion through the top of my tank like the old water tanks in houses. But i thought better of it due to the dimensions of the tank and thermal circulation,  unlike the cylinder water tanks in houses.

Yes. I guess depends on the tank. Upright tanks probably better suited for this method. However,  most  professional tanks are deep.  With the way my grippa tank is baffled, vertical is the only way.

[the king]

funny enough i fired my gas heater up today for the firsat time in to months as i was saving a few quid all im guna say is sod going cold again lol i love my heater defo makes a huge difference in my area and 7 weekly cleans caked in salt and bird dung

[AuRavelling79]

Changing the subject slightly "King" - you say 7 weekly cleans - that seems an unusual time frame - any reason why?

[nathankaye]

funny enough i fired my gas heater up today for the firsat time in to months as i was saving a few quid all im guna say is sod going cold again lol i love my heater defo makes a huge difference in my area and 7 weekly cleans caked in salt and bird dung

The other week i forgot to put my immersion heater on and worked with cold. Which we all know is good and yes it gets the dirt off, just not as easy as hot!  I wasnt keen on going backwards from hot to cold, not after all the effort n experimenting getting there and seeing the difference. Lol and the warmth of the hose n poles,,,,,,,,even when it drips on you its nice compared to getting that cold drip that always finds its way down the back of your top 😂

[Dry Clean]

Would be great to a see a supplier who can introduce an immersion system for their tanks.   

Not sure if it would work but how about replacing the tank lid with a lid that's equipped with an immersion element fixed to it.   Equipped with a spacer at the top  measuring to tank depth to ensure element is close to the bottom. 

Would it work ?

Heat always rises so its best to heat from the bottom as you will get a better all round temp, the problem with immersion
heating is unless you keep circulating the water the heat will tend to keep on rising over the day, its why Nathan still has a
decent temp in the water he has left at the end of the day,  the cooler water at the bottom will have been used on the glass.
Its an inefficient way to heat water but if you don't want on demand then make sure the element is at the bottom of the tank.

[Jonny 87]

Would be great to a see a supplier who can introduce an immersion system for their tanks.   

Not sure if it would work but how about replacing the tank lid with a lid that's equipped with an immersion element fixed to it.   Equipped with a spacer at the top  measuring to tank depth to ensure element is close to the bottom. 

Would it work ?

It would be a good idea for companies to incorporate an immersion.

I did wonder about fitting my immersion through the top of my tank like the old water tanks in houses. But i thought better of it due to the dimensions of the tank and thermal circulation,  unlike the cylinder water tanks in houses.

Companies do.

I got mine from Stephen Scargill at aquaeous plastic fabrications.

He does most his business on Facebook and you can seek lots of pictures.

My tank is insulated also.

[Spruce]

Would be great to a see a supplier who can introduce an immersion system for their tanks.   

Not sure if it would work but how about replacing the tank lid with a lid that's equipped with an immersion element fixed to it.   Equipped with a spacer at the top  measuring to tank depth to ensure element is close to the bottom. 

Would it work ?

It would be a good idea for companies to incorporate an immersion.

I did wonder about fitting my immersion through the top of my tank like the old water tanks in houses. But i thought better of it due to the dimensions of the tank and thermal circulation,  unlike the cylinder water tanks in houses.

Companies do.

I got mine from Stephen Scargill at aquaeous plastic fabrications.

He does most his business on Facebook and you can seek lots of pictures.

My tank is insulated also.

I like that tank.

[DeLuce]

Would be great to a see a supplier who can introduce an immersion system for their tanks.   

Not sure if it would work but how about replacing the tank lid with a lid that's equipped with an immersion element fixed to it.   Equipped with a spacer at the top  measuring to tank depth to ensure element is close to the bottom. 

Would it work ?

It would be a good idea for companies to incorporate an immersion.

I did wonder about fitting my immersion through the top of my tank like the old water tanks in houses. But i thought better of it due to the dimensions of the tank and thermal circulation,  unlike the cylinder water tanks in houses.

Companies do.

I got mine from Stephen Scargill at aquaeous plastic fabrications.

He does most his business on Facebook and you can seek lots of pictures.

My tank is insulated also.

I like that tank.

I like it too.  I take it that the immersion is bottom left?
Very neat and tidy.

[Jonny 87]

Yeah that's the one.

Immersion bottom left, and a fast fill outlet, which I don't use much to be honest.

[the king]

Changing the subject slightly "King" - you say 7 weekly cleans - that seems an unusual time frame - any reason why?

ive got a huge round sometimes it takes me 8 weeks but this seems to be the norm in my area 6/8 week turn around

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Would be great to a see a supplier who can introduce an immersion system for their tanks.   

Not sure if it would work but how about replacing the tank lid with a lid that's equipped with an immersion element fixed to it.   Equipped with a spacer at the top  measuring to tank depth to ensure element is close to the bottom. 

Would it work ?

It would be a good idea for companies to incorporate an immersion.

I did wonder about fitting my immersion through the top of my tank like the old water tanks in houses. But i thought better of it due to the dimensions of the tank and thermal circulation,  unlike the cylinder water tanks in houses.

Companies do.

I got mine from Stephen Scargill at aquaeous plastic fabrications.

He does most his business on Facebook and you can seek lots of pictures.

My tank is insulated also.

Thanks. Looks good.

I am now toying with purchasing one to act as an ibc tank. Only needs to be about 400lt di only.  Then transfer the hot water to the van first thing. 

What pump do you use to transfer at speed?

[nathankaye]

Would be great to a see a supplier who can introduce an immersion system for their tanks.   

Not sure if it would work but how about replacing the tank lid with a lid that's equipped with an immersion element fixed to it.   Equipped with a spacer at the top  measuring to tank depth to ensure element is close to the bottom. 

Would it work ?

It would be a good idea for companies to incorporate an immersion.

I did wonder about fitting my immersion through the top of my tank like the old water tanks in houses. But i thought better of it due to the dimensions of the tank and thermal circulation,  unlike the cylinder water tanks in houses.

Companies do.

I got mine from Stephen Scargill at aquaeous plastic fabrications.

He does most his business on Facebook and you can seek lots of pictures.

My tank is insulated also.

Thanks. Looks good.

I am now toying with purchasing one to act as an ibc tank. Only needs to be about 400lt di only.  Then transfer the hot water to the van first thing. 

What pump do you use to transfer at speed?

I use this pump in my ibc tank
http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb582pmp-400w-automatic-dirty-water-pump-240v/65041

With geka fittings on my tank  and transfer hose from

https://www.easy-irrigation.co.uk

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Thanks. Just spotted though it's no good with hot. Max 35  degrees

[windowswashed]

do they do a 40 litre insulated one for fresh water for camper vans to fit in a standard kitchen pod 1m x 0.4m