[tom smith]

Hello lads

Good forum here.

I am thinking about setting up business and plan on building a round from scratch. I hear that the proper way to do things is buying a round and not building up one from scratch as most window cleaners don't take kindly to having somebody nicking their business. Heard a couple of horror stories on another forum about people getting their vans smashed up and beaten

Any truth in this? I am new to the business so not aware or proper etiquette and how its normally done, I don't see a problem with knocking on doors for business but is this naughty?

cheers

[Paul Coleman]

Hello lads

Good forum here.

I am thinking about setting up business and plan on building a round from scratch. I hear that the proper way to do things is buying a round and not building up one from scratch as most window cleaners don't take kindly to having somebody nicking their business. Heard a couple of horror stories on another forum about people getting their vans smashed up and beaten

Any truth in this? I am new to the business so not aware or proper etiquette and how its normally done, I don't see a problem with knocking on doors for business but is this naughty?

cheers

Shouldn't be a problem so long as you avoid quoting if someone already has a window cleaner.
If someone has a genuine problem with their window cleaner other than price (e.g. crap job, bad attitude, unreliable etc) then I would probably quote.  I won't try to undercut though - partly because that would be a customer who would dump me when the next cheaper one came along.

[Ian Lancaster]

Some people have strange ideas :

Window cleaning is a business, like any other.  Can you see Sainsbury's worrying about setting up a store in the same town as Tesco?

If you want to start up, go for it.  If you want to be totally ethical, just remember a few simple rules:

When you door knock, never ask if they already have a window cleaner, just say you're starting up and would they like a quote.  If they say they've already got a window cleaner but they'd like a quote anyway, DON'T ask what the current chap is charging, just give them your honest quote based on your pricing policy.  If they go for it, you've done nothing wrong, the other window cleaner must be either crap at his job or charging far too much.

Just remember not to deliberately underprice just to get the work - its not illegal, not even really immoral but it will cause you problems with established window cleaners, which is something you can do without when you'r trying to get established yourself.

Good luck

Ian

[rg1]

Some people have strange ideas :

Window cleaning is a business, like any other.  Can you see Sainsbury's worrying about setting up a store in the same town as Tesco?

If you want to start up, go for it.  If you want to be totally ethical, just remember a few simple rules:

When you door knock, never ask if they already have a window cleaner, just say you're starting up and would they like a quote.  If they say they've already got a window cleaner but they'd like a quote anyway, DON'T ask what the current chap is charging, just give them your honest quote based on your pricing policy.  If they go for it, you've done nothing wrong, the other window cleaner must be either crap at his job or charging far too much.

Just remember not to deliberately underprice just to get the work - its not illegal, not even really immoral but it will cause you problems with established window cleaners, which is something you can do without when you'r trying to get established yourself.

Good luck

Ian

That's about it in a nutshell. Well said that man

[Smudger]

Hi Tom,

It's your business and basically thats it. business !

I'd go down the building from scratch route it's good to get your own custy's and train them
to leave out your money or pay by BACS or however you want to do it.

if you knock a door and they have a w/c then leave it at that the only real NO NO is undercutting,
this in the long run won't do you any good as you will end up working for peanuts.

have an hourly rate in your mind - do your home and friends to see how long they take then you will be able to
quote with reasonable accuracy.

1st cleans/1 offs are double a regular 4 weekly clean   8 weekly are +50% of a 4 wk.

if you are going WFP i think 6 wky is a better option. - unfortunately it's too late for me to change from 4 and 8's

good luck

Darran

[Smudger]

Ian - you can type faster than me !  

Darran

[Rob_Mac]

Ian

On that note and I have mentioned that I have been up to Bishop Auckland, on another topic.

A road width apart a brand new build Tesco going up at exactly the same time as a brand new build Sainsbury's. You should see the frantic efforts to get either store finished.

The better one will be the Sainsbury's because that is the one I am working on!!!

The moral of the story is to reiterate your words and if there is enough business in that one town to have two goliaths competing, yards apart, I don't think that local window cleaners have anything to worry about.

Get out there and get your customers!!!

Rob

[s.w.c]

Some people have strange ideas :

Window cleaning is a business, like any other.  Can you see Sainsbury's worrying about setting up a store in the same town as Tesco?

If you want to start up, go for it.  If you want to be totally ethical, just remember a few simple rules:

When you door knock, never ask if they already have a window cleaner, just say you're starting up and would they like a quote.  If they say they've already got a window cleaner but they'd like a quote anyway, DON'T ask what the current chap is charging, just give them your honest quote based on your pricing policy.  If they go for it, you've done nothing wrong, the other window cleaner must be either crap at his job or charging far too much.

Just remember not to deliberately underprice just to get the work - its not illegal, not even really immoral but it will cause you problems with established window cleaners, which is something you can do without when you'r trying to get established yourself.

Good luck

Ian

i agree with you there.

[geefree]

Its a bit like ice cream rounds ...

This is my area !

Oh dear.

My mates a plumber , and he never gets other plumbers giving him the evils,

we should all get on ,

There is enough work for everyone, ..... well there used to be before the recession ,

now there are so many new ones about ( no disrespect )... its getting harder,

i know i would not like to start from scratch  now.

sorry for the negative sounding post , but its true,

knock the doors though every evening and weekend,

thats quickest way to build your round.

unless you can buy.  

[tom smith]

Thanks for the replies lads

Yeah I originally thought that it was not massively territorial with that my street your street type thing so its good to hear from people in the business that is the case

Planning to get started with some weekend work to test the water and then go full time in spring if all goes well

[rg1]

Tom..where in the south east are you?

[tom smith]

Near Crawley.

[Ian101]

Thanks for the replies lads

Yeah I originally thought that it was not massively territorial with that my street your street type thing so its good to hear from people in the business that is the case

Planning to get started with some weekend work to test the water and then go full time in spring if all goes well

Hi Tom .... u found a good place to learn ... has helped me with my business ... i rekon im about 3 years ahead in the knowledge stakes due to the guys on this forum plus has saved me a fortune when it comes to what does and dont work.

Part time a good idea thats how I started in Feb this year with 10 customers ... went full time in June this year and not looked back ... work hard ... price smart ... provide a good standard of service and it all comes together in the end.

[Panorama]

Hi tom, I've just started window cleaner again after a long lay off. I'm doing it on a part time basis, and in the space of 3 months I have 20 customers ( my next target is 50 ) which equates to just over a hundred pound a month. Now I know this doesn't sound much but Ive never door knocked , it's all been word of mouth, cumulating the other day when one customer actually paid me £3 more than what I quoted her for doing such a good job initally. I have found that the main gripe that the customers have is having someone reliable. Within my quotes I include washing all the frame down as well as the cill. My advice to you would be. Dress smart whilst you work, don't swear , take your time and do the job correctly,  don't be afraid to put a price in that is fair, and lastly, don't be afraid of other window cleaners and working THEIR patch. After all if they were that good they would cleaning every house in the street. Good luck

[4Taz]

Some people have strange ideas :

Window cleaning is a business, like any other.  Can you see Sainsbury's worrying about setting up a store in the same town as Tesco?

If you want to start up, go for it.  If you want to be totally ethical, just remember a few simple rules:

When you door knock, never ask if they already have a window cleaner, just say you're starting up and would they like a quote.  If they say they've already got a window cleaner but they'd like a quote anyway, DON'T ask what the current chap is charging, just give them your honest quote based on your pricing policy.  If they go for it, you've done nothing wrong, the other window cleaner must be either crap at his job or charging far too much.

Just remember not to deliberately underprice just to get the work - its not illegal, not even really immoral but it will cause you problems with established window cleaners, which is something you can do without when you'r trying to get established yourself.

Good luck

Ian

Top advice - why ask if they have a window cleaner??? Do you want a price? - if yes - this is my price - end of 

[AuRavelling79]

A word of caution.

I remember a guy on this forum had his tyres slashed and windscreen smashed, but he stood his ground. That's the only time I've heard of anything like this and that was about 4 years ago. There are Psycho's in all walks of life and window cleaning (especially trad.) can attract low-life as it is easy to get into. SO don't needlessly prod the wasp's nest.

Even nowadays there are a few doley/druggie types about. You might get a phone call on the lines of "gerroffamypatch" - I wouldn't let it intimidate you. In fourteen years I have had one phone call to which I replied "are you threatening me?" and the guy said "I ain't fretnin' no-one, just wochyerbackroight?" click.

I must admit, being new, I was a bit wary, but nothing came of it. In fact when I bumped into him in the street he was more "whiney and upset" rather than aggressive.

Ooop north in luddite land (Lancashire  ) one or two get a bit chopsy and wee on the corner of each street to mark their territory because they're scared of competition! 

[s.w.c]

A word of caution.

There are Psycho's in all walks of life and window cleaning (especially trad.) can attract low-life as it is easy to get into. SO don't needlessly prod the wasp's nest.

ha ha ha ha no need to call me names Mr fudge packet, don't prod the wasps nest, ha ha kick it instead an set light to it an see how mad they get its more fun then put them out of there misery,
cant take life to serious we got to have fun sometimes thought you would understand that mr gold

[AuRavelling79]

A word of caution.

There are Psycho's in all walks of life and window cleaning (especially trad.) can attract low-life as it is easy to get into. SO don't needlessly prod the wasp's nest.

ha ha ha ha no need to call me names Mr fudge packet, don't prod the wasps nest, ha ha kick it instead an set light to it an see how mad they get its more fun then put them out of there misery,
cant take life to serious we got to have fun sometimes thought you would understand that mr gold

>Mr. Smith!

Sorry, you've lost me there ... my post was in no reference to you. Please explain.

[s.w.c]

i was taking the pee yo daft git, i was trying to make some fun out in the thread people take it to serous just get on with it an do your work, Mr gold i thought you would have clocked me taking the pee, getting slow old man

[Frankybadboy]

i was taking the pee yo daft git, i was trying to make some fun out in the thread people take it to serous just get on with it an do your work, Mr gold i thought you would have clocked me taking the pee, getting slow old man

your so funny  : : : :

[mikecam]

Thanks for the replies lads

Yeah I originally thought that it was not massively territorial with that my street your street type thing so its good to hear from people in the business that is the case

Planning to get started with some weekend work to test the water and then go full time in spring if all goes well

You've had replies from people with the brain power to use a computer. However there's plenty out their without that brain power and they won't see things the way its just been told to you here. 

[mci services]

Thanks for the replies lads

Yeah I originally thought that it was not massively territorial with that my street your street type thing so its good to hear from people in the business that is the case

Planning to get started with some weekend work to test the water and then go full time in spring if all goes well

You've had replies from people with the brain power to use a computer. However there's plenty out their without that brain power and they won't see things the way its just been told to you here. 

well thats true I have stepped on many toes and some places I just plain avoid as I can't be doing with the hassle but I continue to step on toes because I can but will the poster get hassle well probably at some point but you just need to learn to deal with it

[AuRavelling79]

Oh right; thanks swc! I'm a bit slow tonight!  

[darren clarke]

u will step on peoples toes and people will step on yours,  the people who get up set, at losing custys are the ones who cant get any more or are too lazy,   i have lost custy sure it annoys you and you moan about it on here, but if it botheres you that much go out and knock for a day and get a load more,  a lot of wc cant canvess to save there lives and hate it when someone comes along and custy leave to go with them,  it usually means they are doing a crap job

[Gav Camm lammy 283]

you cant beat steppin' on a few toes
me i didnt quite step as stamp lol

[Clive McDonald]

The competition is getting severe near me, i am begining to see two or three new signed vans in the areas i work above the normal volume, and i am losing some.

By the defintions earlier i must be crap.


However this thread is interesting in revelaing attitudes of other window cleaners, and i think i'm pretty safe for the time being on the basis that i run a business and most have a different strategy.

[Moderator David@stives]

If I still lived in Salford, I would never consider knocking on another window cleaners patch, that is while i still value my legs.

Now In Cornwall, it seems to be a free for all, the average window cleaner drives 10 miles between jobs, and there seems to be 20 on each street.  Just on the street where I live, at least 6 window cleaners clean on it.

The worlds gone nuts !!

[s.w.c]

the road i live on there are four of us, we just say hi smelly or old man something like that and just get on with our jobs, a good sense of humor is needed in our road. but never a bad word has been spoken to each other, except in a wind up or two. its only a problem if you let it be. :

[darren clarke]

by crap i mean, if you are reasonable priced do a good job, most will stay with u,  the jobs i have picked up off other wc are because they didnt like the results they was doing,  not becasue i was cheaper,   i have lost a few that think i am crap as they didnt like wfp and windows wet, but i lost a few to undercutters who are no longer around  but wont take the custy back on

u might lose a few on price  if you are stupidly expensive

If I still lived in Salford, I would never consider knocking on another window cleaners patch, that is while i still value my legs.

Now In Cornwall, it seems to be a free for all, the average window cleaner drives 10 miles between jobs, and there seems to be 20 on each street. Just on the street where I live, at least 6 window cleaners clean on it.

The worlds gone nuts !!

i had a leaflet the other day from a local wc offering there services,  they live 45 mins drive  and 30miles away,

[mikecam]

The competition is getting severe near me, i am begining to see two or three new signed vans in the areas i work above the normal volume, and i am losing some.

By the defintions earlier i must be crap.


However this thread is interesting in revelaing attitudes of other window cleaners, and i think i'm pretty safe for the time being on the basis that i run a business and most have a different strategy.

The important thing for YOU to understand, running a buisness, is WHY you are losing them.

[Perfect Windows]

i had a leaflet the other day from a local wc offering there services,  they live 45 mins drive  and 30miles away,

Perhaps their area is 40 miles across like the one on your website showing the area you cover. 


Vin

[gewindows]

20 miles either side is okay, if the property is worth driving to. I travel more than I used to 3 years ago, I have made that an acceptable part of my business plan. Personally I have to start questioning things once its over 20 miles, but Id travel twice that if the job was viable.

How far would you tolerate driving Perfect Windows to do a £100 job that took 2 hours?

10 miles, 20 miles, 30 miles, 40 miles?


Ive grown sick of doing estate properties, theres plenty to be said for them, but put me in the grounds of a plush estate house with all the trappings that go with it and Im in my element, I take more pride in the job, I feel relaxed working, I get a better sense of achievement and pride. To get those places though you have to be prepared to put in plenty of footwork in securing them and the chances are you're going to have to do more miles to reach them.

[darren clarke]

i had a leaflet the other day from a local wc offering there services,  they live 45 mins drive  and 30miles away,

Perhaps their area is 40 miles across like the one on your website showing the area you cover.


Vin

i havent got a problem with peoplr traveling,  its when they say local wc  and they live nearly a hour away

[Perfect Windows]

How far would you tolerate driving Perfect Windows to do a £100 job that took 2 hours?

10 miles, 20 miles, 30 miles, 40 miles?

It'd take a lot to justify that for me - my current turnover in town work is too close to that, but I know what you're saying.  There are jobs to which I'd happily drive.

I'll happily drive a distance for a full day's work - the driving time is lost for the benefit of getting out of the city for a little while.

Note that my comment was just a light-hearted note on Blue Monkey's post, nothing more.

For real local work you need this guy: http://www.wetrag.co.uk/ - his route round a few of the areas he names: http://tinyurl.com/374akt5

Vin

[tom smith]

Thanks for the replies lads

I have decided to give it a go after much thinking. Going to pick up a WFP system and van before spring - start looking for weekend business and then go full time if I can make it work

Good thing about where i am is that there are plenty of houses with money in a 30-45 min drive radius to look for and london is less than an hour away if I want to try drumming up a regular commercial round ontop of the domestic

[AuRavelling79]

Tom - while you are driving you not only aren't earning but you are spending too.

Just remember that every hour driving is costing you £40+. "How much!?" You ask.

That's an hour you could spend on the glass and earn £30+ and you'll also use a gallon of diesel and wear and tear on your van.

Try to be local as a general rule. This doesn't mean you turn down a gravy job that's 30 mins away but look within three miles of home to start and work out from there.

[Paul Coleman]

Thanks for the replies lads

I have decided to give it a go after much thinking. Going to pick up a WFP system and van before spring - start looking for weekend business and then go full time if I can make it work

Good thing about where i am is that there are plenty of houses with money in a 30-45 min drive radius to look for and london is less than an hour away if I want to try drumming up a regular commercial round ontop of the domestic

I'm in Crawley too.
Although I do a reasonable amount of work in the town boundary, I find that I also have to travel out a bit for a fair bit of my work.  This is because of the larger than usual amount of terraced houses with no rear access.  Also, the courts and walkways (mainly Broadfield and Bewbush, aren't the best of places for running a hose.
I'm in West Green.  Where are you?  (no I'm not a-coming to get ya  ).