[paul beckett]

what i have noticed alot of lately window cleaner has stopped with custy they ring me to the windows. when doing these windows i notice the top frame of the window they are really dirty like they have never been done. and they always seemed to have had i pole system wfp, i notice it because im traditional .   is this just users fault or is normal for wfp ?  im noticing it more and more.

 regards paul

[GWCS]

the wfp user should be doing the top frames, or they are just bad or lazy operators.

[stephen s]

I cant make out what your saying ?   your talking in riddles

[NWH]

I do top frames with WFP i think it lots awful when leaving this part of the window.

[chris@c.m.s]

WFP is quicker than than trad so if a wfp WC doesn't  clean all of the frame then they are taking the p1ss IMO, I often clean more than what's expected  I,E plastic above or anything that may drip down or even spoil the appearance of the job, oh and gutters on conservatories   .
Some just see WFP as a way of making quick money and do the minimum that is required, but some are more concerned with providing a good service. but its the same with trad, there's good and bad at both.          

[andyjm1]

Some wfp users may not clean the top of the frame but a lot of trad. cleaners don't clean any of the frame.

[cybersye]

the only reason i can see for not cleaning the top frame is if it has vents in it, but even so with the right method and practice they should'nt present a problem with water fed pole.

[Bobs Window Cleaning]

I stopped cleaning the top of the frames as I was getting runs of dirty water after i had finished and left. This was after advice from the more experienced users on this site.

Not down to being lazy or sloppy 

Bob

[simon knight]

Some wfp users may not clean the top of the frame but a lot of trad. cleaners don't clean any of the frame.

Too true mate. I might, just might give the sill a quick wipe if I'm in a good mood. But the frames?...Nope!

[Jeff Brimble]

what i have noticed alot of lately window cleaner has stopped with custy they ring me to the windows. when doing these windows i notice the top frame of the window they are really dirty like they have never been done. and they always seemed to have had i pole system wfp, i notice it because im traditional .   is this just users fault or is normal for wfp ?  im noticing it more and more.

 regards paul

Maybe they ave moved on to better work, I have never needed to clean the frames unless they pay me extra, for the last 12 years.(Same loyal customers) I am here to make money, its a business and do not intend to give my skills and know how away for nothing.
Good luck to you, go waterfed and save your life.

[paul beckett]

Some wfp users may not clean the top of the frame but a lot of trad. cleaners don't clean any of the frame.

i know what you are saying. you are right trad dont always do frames, i deffinately do the frames, if the frames are dirty, the window looks dirty, i always pride myself on doing a good job for recommendations


paul

[mlscontractcleaner]

Then you're only doing half a job. Frames, sills, glass, they're all part of the window and all need cleaning. When they're not all cleaned it just looks crap; and you don't notice the nice, clean glass, just the filthy sill or frame.

And if you charge extra you're a crook as it's really only on the first visit  that you have to actually clean the whites, the rest of the time they only require a quick wipe over with the brush.

I guess that why, after twenty years, I'm still very busy with existing and new work; quality speaks for itself

[mlscontractcleaner]

Oops, that was aimed at Mr Brimble 

[ronnie paton]

i dont clean top of the frame regular, it has always caused to many problems with or without vents.

[mlscontractcleaner]

Practice, practice, practice  :

A decent window cleaner can do it properly 

[Robin Ray]

On many jobs wfp the frames regulary is impossible as it will leave a runs some wooden windows etc. However on 90% of windows there is no problem as long as you get it right the first time. This will take longer the first time however it will be much quicker in the long run. Why?

1/ A large proportion of of dirt on the window comes from from the frame and sill between cleans therfore the window wont be so dirty next time.

2/ As the frame is now clean you dont have to be accurate with your cleaning and rinsing. Which can be time consuming particualy at difficult on different shaped windows and at hard angles.

3/ As you know the frame is clean you do not need to spend as much time or even any looking and worrying if you have touched the top edge, and there may be some spots or a run.

Dont get me wrong there are times when the frame just cant be cleaned but as maintaining a frame regulary take about two seconds each time why not do it. Its quicker and looks 100% better, after all thats the whole purpouse apart from money.

Rob

[ronnie paton]

well seems i do a descent enough job considering iv run my business for less than 4 years and were are going from strengh to strengh.

with work coming out of ears.........so please dont worry your self.

[seandyer2003]

How'd the assessment go Ronnie??

Had mine earlier

[Oakley Windows]

I find the way to do the top bar of a frame is to have a wet brush but with the water flow turned off and sweep the brush backwards and forwards across the top bar, cleaning it but with this method not too much water gets on the frame to run down behind the opener (which can run down teh glass below once the place is finished)

[macmac]

well seems i do a descent enough job considering iv run my business for less than 4 years and were are going from strengh to strengh.

with work coming out of ears.........so please dont worry your self.

Ditto, Never clean a top frame & hardley any part of the frame either (unless it really sticks out like a sore thumb!)
Guess what?  I've more work than I can handle & it still keeps pouring in!

You've either got it or you ain't, Eh Ronnie

[macmac]

well seems i do a descent enough job considering iv run my business for less than 4 years and were are going from strengh to strengh.

with work coming out of ears.........so please dont worry your self.

Ditto, Never clean a top frame & hardley any part of the frame either (unless it really sticks out like a sore thumb!)
Guess what?  I've more work than I can handle & it still keeps pouring in!

You've either got it or you ain't, Eh Ronnie

Oh, just to add to that also, my advertising budget is ZERO!!!!!! ALL from recommendation!

[simon knight]

Once a year we have the guy come in and clean our carpets. And he does precisely that...cleans the carpets. He doesn't wash down the skirting-board as well. Why should he?...he's not being paid to do that.

Same with windows. You're paid to clean the glass. If you take it on yourself to clean the frames as well then that's down to you but none of my custies expect it as part of the service.

On the vary rare occassion I'm asked to do it obviously I will, but I always charge extra.

[Jeff Brimble]

Then you're only doing half a job. Frames, sills, glass, they're all part of the window and all need cleaning. When they're not all cleaned it just looks crap; and you don't notice the nice, clean glass, just the filthy sill or frame.

And if you charge extra you're a crook as it's really only on the first visit  that you have to actually clean the whites, the rest of the time they only require a quick wipe over with the brush.

I guess that why, after twenty years, I'm still very busy with existing and new work; quality speaks for itself

Crook, hows that work then ? , the customer is given the choice what sercice they want and most if not all choose not to have the frames cleaned in the majority.Its competitive this business.  But then I live in a different area to you, we all have different rounds and customers and handle our businesses differently, I started in 1967.

[leapstallbuildings]

what i have noticed alot of lately window cleaner has stopped with custy they ring me to the windows. when doing these windows i notice the top frame of the window they are really dirty like they have never been done. and they always seemed to have had i pole system wfp, i notice it because im traditional .   is this just users fault or is normal for wfp ?  im noticing it more and more.

 regards paul

Personally, I don't do top frames every time.  I feel that there is no need.  I do them every second or third time as that's enough to keep them OK.  However, it should be noted that there are some jobs where I never do the top of frame.  There are good reasons for this.  Reasons such as, excessive leaking via a gap in the top of an opener, or where there is brickwork too close to the frame top (this would lead to run marks if the brickwork was touched with the brush, or where tile hanging is so close to the top of frame that the danger of knocking it outweighs leaving dirt at the top of the frame.  Theree are of course the usual issues with top vents with more modern windows.  So yes, there are times it is better to leave top frames alone IMO.  There may be other instances too where they are better left.

[macmac]

Personally, I think a lot of wfp'ers have been led to believe that the frames HAVE to be done & used this as a marketing tool, which suppliers are only too willing to dish out (it's commonly known as bollox). This then leaves them with no choice but to clean them as they've marketed it to their custies. In my 5.5 years experience cleaning the top frame, in general gives more trouble than it's worth. Granted, there are windows that were made for wfp & cleaning the top frame won't give any probs but certainly on my round it's not worth it. Clean glass is the goal for me & if you read my previous post, I can't be that wrong?

[martinsadie]

Some wfp users may not clean the top of the frame but a lot of trad. cleaners don't clean any of the frame.

to right,unless asked to and paid for it 

[mlscontractcleaner]

Well, horses for courses and all that, but to be honest if you can't be bothered spending two seconds cleaning the frames and are quite happy knowing that the window could have looked better but you couldn't be arsed that's fine. You sleep well at night and more power to you.

I on the other hand clean the frames, not because I believe manufacturer's bollox but because I wont leave the customer with any doubt that they're getting the best service possible for the price they're paying .

Guess what, I don't charge extra for first cleans either. Some do and are crooks in my opinion; probably the same "glass cleaners" who don't clean frames :

[martinsadie]

Well, horses for courses and all that, but to be honest if you can't be bothered spending two seconds cleaning the frames and are quite happy knowing that the window could have looked better but you couldn't be arsed that's fine. You sleep well at night and more power to you.

I on the other hand clean the frames, not because I believe manufacturer's bollox but because I wont leave the customer with any doubt that they're getting the best service possible for the price they're paying .

Guess what, I don't charge extra for first cleans either. Some do and are crooks in my opinion; probably the same "glass cleaners" who don't clean frames :

i hope you have a hole in the seat of your pants so that when you talk out of your arse everyone can hear you 

[NWH]

You don`t have to do the frames i agree but the job looks 10 times better if you do.

[leapstallbuildings]

Well, horses for courses and all that, but to be honest if you can't be bothered spending two seconds cleaning the frames and are quite happy knowing that the window could have looked better but you couldn't be arsed that's fine. You sleep well at night and more power to you.

I on the other hand clean the frames, not because I believe manufacturer's bollox but because I wont leave the customer with any doubt that they're getting the best service possible for the price they're paying .

Guess what, I don't charge extra for first cleans either. Some do and are crooks in my opinion; probably the same "glass cleaners" who don't clean frames :

So you stuck a smilie on the end about first cleans.  I often (though not always charge more for them and don't consider myself a crook.  I go around them twice and the extra money charged is usually less than the extra time taken.

[Blue Frog Systems]

I do the frames, glass & sills as part of my service. I find the customers like this and more likely to stay with my services.

My next door neighbour has a 'glass only' window cleaner. The glass on his windows are really clean i must admit, but the fact his frames are dirty let the look of his house down.

[Londoner]

In the early days of WFP a lot more water got sprayed about because we had brushes with jets that were too big (thats the way they were supplied). Also fan jets were the fashion so the combination meant you had to wash the flipping lot because it all got wet anyway and you would get runs.

The other thing was that virtually all the early WFP users were ex-trad cleaners and well experienced before they started.

Today a lot of the new start WFP users don't know how to clean trad and probably never will. All they know is what they have been told and they do it blindly.

I always clean the lot on first cleans and then "refresh" from time to time. Sills more or less have to be done each time if they are white UPVC and most are these days.

[johns window kleen]

I do the frames, when & if, in my opinion they need to be freshened up, I don't charge extra for this as it takes literally minutes to do the lot, and I dont even point it out to the customer,unless there was a load of bird poo on them.

However it seems a bit rich for trad cleaners to make these observations about WFP Users , when its clear that not all of them clean the whole frame each time {why should they} I say this because I have allways been puzzled how the Trad guys get away with leaving windows above conservatories uncleaned because they can't get to them. So they clean only 3/4 of the windows in some houses.

[Alex Gardiner]

I know a lot of traditional window cleaners who never clean the frames.

[R W C]

I charge extra for doing frames but this is charged on every clean and not when asked, so those £10 houses you do 4 weekly and only do the glass and charge say £14 every 6 months to clean there frames too, im charging £14 every month  , a lot of new custys say "you do do the frames too dont you" my response "of course as im a window cleaner not a glass cleaner"

[paul beckett]

I do the frames, when & if, in my opinion they need to be freshened up, I don't charge extra for this as it takes literally minutes to do the lot, and I dont even point it out to the customer,unless there was a load of bird poo on them.

However it seems a bit rich for trad cleaners to make these observations about WFP Users , when its clear that not all of them clean the whole frame each time {why should they} I say this because I have allways been puzzled how the Trad guys get away with leaving windows above conservatories uncleaned because they can't get to them. So they clean only 3/4 of the windows in some houses.

im traditiona and i dont leave the window above the conservatory because i use a pole to over come this, anyway leaving this one window is a lot more than 3/4 of the windows, remember its only one window !!!
anyway its up to the custys if there happy with the sevice, its alright whatever anyone does. if you do lose custys from not doing frames or charging for it, then you will know who's wrong, so at the end of the day, if no complaints who gives a sh-t

[elite mike]

Well, horses for courses and all that, but to be honest if you can't be bothered spending two seconds cleaning the frames and are quite happy knowing that the window could have looked better but you couldn't be arsed that's fine. You sleep well at night and more power to you.

I on the other hand clean the frames, not because I believe manufacturer's bollox but because I wont leave the customer with any doubt that they're getting the best service possible for the price they're paying .

Guess what, I don't charge extra for first cleans either. Some do and are crooks in my opinion; probably the same "glass cleaners" who don't clean frames :

i hope you have a hole in the seat of your pants so that when you talk out of your arse everyone can hear you 

stan thats got to be the post of the week 

[NWH]

Trad window cleaners don`t clean the frames because it takes long enough to clean the glass lol.

[simon knight]

Trad window cleaners don`t clean the frames because it takes long enough to clean the glass lol.

Bullseye

[paul beckett]

its just a shame to think that new equipment costs thousands of pounds and it cant clean the top frame without future problem (dripping ect )
or maybe not the equipment its the user. its just that the winows frames i see with the top frames that bad, it just makes me think how they get away with it, or is it just the custys not caring

[macmac]

As with wfp IMO, after the first clean, cleaning the frame trad takes no longer than wfp, just a quick wipe with the sill cloth! It's a myth that it's such a big, time consuming job to wipe a frame trad! :

Or, to put it bluntly, just more wfp bollox!

[mlscontractcleaner]

No, no holes in my pants for anything to come out. What's wrong with doing a proper job? Cleaning just the glass leaves the rest of the window looking crap; you don't even notice the glass

Should I charge extra for moving a chair or two when I'm cleaning a carpet or should I just clean around them; After all the carpet wont be seen will it

It's nice to see that a few of my fellow window cleaners on here clean everything but a little disturbing to see so many cowboy cleaners. Oh well, customers pay their money and take their chances I guess 

[ronnie paton]

so were cowboys cause were not the sam as you..........this cowboy is riding high

[NWH]

After the first clean WFP doing the frame on a window takes seconds to do,i don`t see why some don`t do them don`t get me wrong i don`t go mad on them everytime but i do go over them and at least keep them white lol.If you don`t do them WFP they will get dirty and go green a lot lot quicker.

[mlscontractcleaner]

Well said NWH ....... a proper window cleaning firm

[NWH]

XXX lol

[martinsadie]

Well said NWH ....... a proper window cleaning firm

well your not a proper window cleaning firm if you have to fanny around cleaning carpets as well,do you also cut grass and decorate 

[NWH]

Clean carpets i hope you don`t mean me cos if so you`ve got me all wrong.

[martinsadie]

Clean carpets i hope you don`t mean me cos if so you`ve got me all wrong.

no not you the the other one