[colin purewater]

so gets home today and there is anote on the floor from united utilities saying

''we need to gain entrance to tour property''

and  at the bottom there is a hand writen note saying

''one of you neighbours has made a complaint that you are sourcing water from your property illegally''

please contact us blah blah blah

so what do you guys think i should do???
i wasnt to sure if i had to declare it or not as im paying for water anyway

any one had this before??

im only trying to feed me kids and wife gob poope nosey neighbours cant stand anyone who aint on the dole or trying to make something of the selfs.
any advise would be most help full
people who just want to get on ther high horse need not reply

many thanks

colin

[Steve Sed]

If it were me I'd call and ask how to go about sourcing water illegally. That should be interesting. Water divining? Sunk own well? Just plain daft. Call them.

[stuart mc]

I would imagine your neighbour has implied that you are bypassing the meter some how, just phone and let them come out and check and they will see all is fine, what is the worst that can happen, put you on a commercial meter, no big deal really

[steve rix]

You will have to ring them. But dont some people make you sick, for a few gallons of water. You know what to do if you see them washing their car with a hosepipe.

[Steve Sed]

Can they force someone to go onto a meter? 

[colin purewater]

should of said we aint on meters in this street 4 or 5 houses share a main so thats why we dont have them, i dont mind paying for what i use but you right some people do make you feel sick,
im propa ped of a about the said neighbour.
we live in a mid terrece so i have to fill my tank from a pipe that comes under my front door
 not ideal but it works, the wife if on the net looking for a new house, shes really ped!!

[steve rix]

Yep, I think so

[EandM]

If your paying for the water I can't see an issue.

[S]

 I had an issue with the water company once. One of my neigbours shopped me.  I did not tell the water company I was using some of my house water for WFP.

In the end, the water company stuck on commercial water rates for all my water. Which are a lot higher than normal rates.

SO BE AWARE

[Mike #1]

Dont worry about it mate if you share the mains supply with other houses the water company will have to go to the expense of installing meters for each house in your street .

speak to them in the morning everything will work out mate . MIKE

[Mike #1]

 I had an issue with the water company once. One of my neigbours shopped me.  I did not tell the water company I was using some of my house water for WFP.

In the end, the water company stuck on commercial water rates for all my water. Which are a lot higher than normal rates.

SO BE AWARE

How much more typically

[S]

 I had an issue with the water company once. One of my neigbours shopped me.  I did not tell the water company I was using some of my house water for WFP.

In the end, the water company stuck on commercial water rates for all my water. Which are a lot higher than normal rates.

SO BE AWARE

I cannot remember now, this was 4 years ago. Been kicked out since then-).

How much more typically

[JSMC]

you need to start ordering pizzas, hookers, taxi's, double glazing salesman, electric/gas salesman to ye rneigbours house

[colin purewater]

weve got a top gossop in are street
if any one nos who it was she will

[rosskesava]

If a water company finds you are using water for commercial purposes, they will fit a meter (and charge you for them fitting it) and charge you more for the water than for domestic use.

It nearly happened to me at my last house but as we were in the process of moving house, which we did 2 months later, the water company (Southern Water) didn't have enough time to pursue it legally.

If it was me, I'd let them come round and have a look but remove all your RO stuff before they arrive and say to them that you are a trad window cleaner which is what I should have done. As I found out to my horror, as soon as you deny them access, they assume you are 'commerial or business'.

Also, I would think the term 'sourcing water illegally' means using domestic water for commercial purposes.

[steve123]

If it was me I would post a letter to everyone in the street saying.
"thank you to whomever told the water company that I was sourcing water ilegaly" Even though I am not.
They have suggested we ALL have to go on meters.
So would the person responsible please make themselves known so we know who to blame for costing us more.

[colin purewater]

thank you for your replys gents
think i have my plan of attack

cheers to all

[Frankybadboy]

i would not phone them.i would wait until they found you,


its not you job to phone them,just wait for the letters

[bobplum]

just taking this further,i am on a meter,should i be paying a commercial rate for the volume of water i use?
bob

[Pope vader]

yes and no,  if on a water meter then you will be paying a fortune anyway,  they will probabbly think you have bypassed the meter,  phone them let them come out,  if you dont they will get a forced entry which you will get to pay for, or could just turn up and switch off your meter  on the pretence it might be faulty and along with this your water

[mikecam]

so gets home today and there is anote on the floor from united utilities saying

''we need to gain entrance to tour property''

and  at the bottom there is a hand writen note saying

''one of you neighbours has made a complaint that you are sourcing water from your property illegally''

please contact us blah blah blah

so what do you guys think i should do???
i wasnt to sure if i had to declare it or not as im paying for water anyway

any one had this before??

im only trying to feed me kids and wife gob poope nosey neighbours cant stand anyone who aint on the dole or trying to make something of the selfs.
any advise would be most help full
people who just want to get on ther high horse need not reply

many thanks

colin

Couple of things coming to my mind here Colin. First one is (assuming you're paying your water bill !) then you are not 'sourcing water illegally'. Do not show them your RO stuff, and admit to nothing except filling your van up from a hose pipe occasionally. I would not allow them access (although i think they can force the issue) on a whim, just to check. I would make it pretty tough for them and stick to the just filling my van up from a hosepipe lark. I wouldn;t show them the inside of your van, they're not entitled to see it. I wouldn;t explain what i do either. Just keep it simple and tell them you fill your van up every few days with a few hundred litres.
 Ultimateley they will want to stick you on a meter. I'm not 100% certain, but i think they cannot (where we are) compulsory put you on a water meter. It will all rest on what YOU tell THEM. I think if you stick to the line that you occasionally fill your van with a few hundred litres of water (and tell them no more) then you should be fine. Thats my take on it anyway. Right now they don;t know anything except a neighbour has phoned and told them you're using water.

[Pope vader]

they will have already of check your water usage, to how many people are in the house,  if it is too high or too low they will want to know why

i get my water off a mate now, who bypassed his water meter, and gets bills of £30 per quarter,  and gets away with it becasue he is in a wheelchair,  doesnt use his shower and only use the toilet down stairs,  when he needs a shower he has to go his brothers around the corner who also does his washing, the bloke uses his water for the kettle and the toilet,  and is very rarely home  as is alwasy away in his camper van visit friends

they have been out to him 2 times and leave him alone now

[colin purewater]

thanks mike!
1st of all yes i am paying my bill! ha ha
and i agree with what you say,
say as little as posible and may be hide my van  out the way for a few weeks
and fill up at  night
all my ro stuff is in  van so just a hose pipe going under the front door (as you seen)
i dont think we can get meters in are street as the way the main is set up
they would have done this by now other wise

 

cheers mike

[Moderator David@stives]

I already phoned them about this a while back

basically they said a domestic property cannot have a commercial supply, or have it inflicted on you.

[mikecam]

I already phoned them about this a while back

basically they said a domestic property cannot have a commercial supply, or have it inflicted on you.

Why would you ring United Utilities when, i guess, that living in Cornwall, you're water supplier is South West water? There is different legislation for different water suppliers.

[colin purewater]

just remebered got a bie pole in the caller
best move that then

thet cant check the usage as we have no meter ori

[Pope vader]

they will have checked it at the end of the street, 

[Moderator David@stives]

Mike

Fair point, it was SW water I phoned, but i guess they will all be similar

[rosskesava]

I already phoned them about this a while back

basically they said a domestic property cannot have a commercial supply, or have it inflicted on you.

Dave - as I remember it, it's not a case of having a commercial supply but more a case of using water from a domestic source for commercial purposes if the business is one that can be legally run from home which includes window cleaning. The problem was they said the water from my home was being used elsewhere and I was making profit from it while being registered for domestic usage only.

With me, Southern Water wanted to install a meter and charge me for a certain amount of water per quarter at domestic rates and anything over that would be at commercial rates.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

if they have checked it at the end of the street HOW can they prove its him that is using the extra water? ORI
How can they enter your property or van without a court order?
ORI are you from the water police??  

[StockClean]

Best way to solve the issue is to install a second water meter at the RO unit itself. And set up a commecrial account for that mater, and ofset the difference aginst the home meter for a true balancing payment. Then you can claim all the water costs 100% through your tax return due to the extra meter.

[mikecam]

Mike

Fair point, it was SW water I phoned, but i guess they will all be similar

From what i've read (i'm no expert on it), but the southern counties have had things 'relaxed' for them to install meteres under the banner of 'environmental'/'water shortages' etc....
 The water industry act 1991 makes provision for fitting of water meters. I found this snippet in it, there may be others more obvious..........this one caught my eye anyway......
49 Supplemental provisions with respect to the metering conditions.E+W

(1)The power conferred on a water undertaker to impose conditions under section 47 above for the purposes of metering—

(a)shall be exercisable in relation to any premises even if the undertaker has no immediate intention, when the power is exercised, of fixing charges in relation to those premises by reference to volume; but

(b)shall not be exercisable so as to require the alteration or removal of any pipe laid or plumbing installed before 1st April 1989.

[rosskesava]

Best way to solve the issue is to install a second water meter at the RO unit itself. And set up a commecrial account for that mater, and ofset the difference aginst the home meter for a true balancing payment. Then you can claim all the water costs 100% through your tax return due to the extra meter.

I did check that out and while it's true that the cost of RO water is 100% tax deductable, the cost of the meter isn't for some reason I cannot remember. The problem with a water meter is only one can be fitted per house and they have rules about where it can go and where it can't. Also, the cost of fitting a water meter isn't exactly cheap.

How the water company found out, or strongly suspected, I had an RO system in an outside shed with no windows occured a few weeks after there was a mains water leak just up the road from where we lived. At the time I thought it couldn't be a coincidence. Three years of using an RO system without a peep from Southern Water and within weeks of water mains repairs, I get a letter.

And yes, one bit I clearly remember is a water company can get a court order to enter your home to check on water usage and waste.

[Pope vader]

if they have checked it at the end of the street HOW can they prove its him that is using the extra water? ORI
How can they enter your property or van without a court order?
ORI are you from the water police??  

all they can check is how much water is going throught the meter at the end of the street and calc it aganst who is in that street,  as X amount of people should use X amount of water roughly, and if this number is way haigher that what they think it should be they then think they have a leak  but if one of his neighbours have reported him for useing the water they will then look at trying to pin it on him so they can charge him for the water he has used,  they will try and make you pay for it  but tell them to take you to court,  

they cant enter your property with out a court order,  but they are trying to avoid this as it gets costly and they have to inform you that they are taking you to court to get a order, and you can go and tell the judge why you dont want them in there

this is why all meters (gas, ele, water) can be accessed from out side new propertys, so they dont have to enter your property to take a reading, they are allowed to do this, as it is the same law that allows window cleaners to enter someone garden to clean some one elses windows


basically if he has nothing to hide then allow them in,  the worse thing that will happen is they will put a meter on, but if he pes them off then they might want to go for the lot

[Paul Coleman]

Best way to solve the issue is to install a second water meter at the RO unit itself. And set up a commecrial account for that mater, and ofset the difference aginst the home meter for a true balancing payment. Then you can claim all the water costs 100% through your tax return due to the extra meter.

I did check that out and while it's true that the cost of RO water is 100% tax deductable, the cost of the meter isn't for some reason I cannot remember. The problem with a water meter is only one can be fitted per house and they have rules about where it can go and where it can't. Also, the cost of fitting a water meter isn't exactly cheap.

How the water company found out, or strongly suspected, I had an RO system in an outside shed with no windows occured a few weeks after there was a mains water leak just up the road from where we lived. At the time I thought it couldn't be a coincidence. Three years of using an RO system without a peep from Southern Water and within weeks of water mains repairs, I get a letter.

And yes, one bit I clearly remember is a water company can get a court order to enter your home to check on water usage and waste.

I tried to get a water meter installed in my flat several years ago as I live on my own (RO is set up several miles away).  They told me I couldn't be metered because they have a maximum of TWO meters per property.  To isolate my supply from the other flats would have required three meters.  Maybe the number of meters varies between regions.  My domestic supply is from Southern Water.

[bad trippy]

colin do you have a pump to aid water production to your RO?
If so get rid quick, its very much against water regs and you can be fined several thousand quid.
You can only have a pump if you have a breaker tank,ie the pump is not pumping direct from water mains supply

[G Griffin]

they will have already of check your water usage, to how many people are in the house,  if it is too high or too low they will want to know why

So, they'd want to know why you're water usage is too low? Are you sure? And what's too low?
Are they casting nasturtiums upon peoples' hygiene?

[Moderator David@stives]

If your just paying water rates, with no meter, then you have an unlimited supply through a 22mm pipe to do with as you please unless there is a drought order of course.

Ross]

Water board cannot force a meter on you, just because you use lots of water. you paid for it, do with it what you want.

[Pope vader]

if you are on a meter and there is meant to be 4 people in your house and you use £10 worth of water a month, then they will want to know y

but he isnt on a meter

[rosskesava]

If your just paying water rates, with no meter, then you have an unlimited supply through a 22mm pipe to do with as you please unless there is a drought order of course.

Ross]

Water board cannot force a meter on you, just because you use lots of water. you paid for it, do with it what you want.

Blimey Dave. They wanted to install a meter to measure water usage for a commercial business, i.e. me. Also, yes, water companies can force a water meter on you if they consider the usage too high or to control usage under existing envirenmental rules. I checked with offwat about that.

Around here Southern Water are instaling meters whether people want one or not.   http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/9162761.Sussex_homes_to_get_water_meters/

With me, it was what I used the water for. It was for domestic use only. Well at least that's what the letters I received stated. It was all about making profit from a business from water intended for use in and around the home.

Think about it, a person could own and run a car wash place, buy the flat/house/etc next to it and run the whole show from the mains water from the flat/house/etc with impunity.

Maybe different water company's have different rules?

ps still taking your wfp on holiday with you?

[H2GoKent]

If it was a note posted thru your door are you absolutely sure it's not one of your mates on a wind-up?
I would get a water butt and rig it up, hide the R O and bluff it out. But then again I've got nice neighbours.

[Ste M]

Colin. I'm in liverpool as well mate so I use the same water company. When I first went wfp I called them and told them what my business was and can I switch over to comercial purely for tax reason. They asked what my usage would be and when I told them a couple of thousand litres at most they said its ok as I don't need a comercial meter. I have called back since and again asked the question but again got told no I don't need one. The last time I called was to get a price per litre off them accuratly and once again asked but was once again told no. This neighbour may of told them you were using a silly amount of water when your actually not.

[AS Window Cleaning]

thats a bummer, didnt realise wasnt allowed to use non metered water for business use.

we are metered at home, but just moved to static tank at brother in laws, who is not metered.  Apparently has got gossipy neighbours, so could cause problems in future then?  He is also in council house.....

Also:

colin do you have a pump to aid water production to your RO?
If so get rid quick, its very much against water regs and you can be fined several thousand quid.
You can only have a pump if you have a breaker tank,ie the pump is not pumping direct from water mains supply

Can this be confirmed?  We used to use a booster pump, in fact was recommended to us to help the RO produce quicker and more purer, first ive heard of this being illegal!  And slightly worrying.  As the water boards seem to be lowering pressure in estates more and more are having to use booster pumps....

[colin purewater]

colin do you have a pump to aid water production to your RO?
If so get rid quick, its very much against water regs and you can be fined several thousand quid.
You can only have a pump if you have a breaker tank,ie the pump is not pumping direct from water mains supply

no mate no pump and no ro in my house
just a hose pipe goin from my celler to under my front door mate

[colin purewater]

Colin. I'm in liverpool as well mate so I use the same water company. When I first went wfp I called them and told them what my business was and can I switch over to comercial purely for tax reason. They asked what my usage would be and when I told them a couple of thousand litres at most they said its ok as I don't need a comercial meter. I have called back since and again asked the question but again got told no I don't need one. The last time I called was to get a price per litre off them accuratly and once again asked but was once again told no. This neighbour may of told them you were using a silly amount of water when your actually not.

ste thats intresting to no thank yowere about are ye mate?

[Gav Camm lammy 283]

colin dont let ste kidd you
he's a wool

[colin purewater]

colin dont let ste kidd you
he's a wool

ha ha pie and pea wet 

[mikecam]

Can this be confirmed?  We used to use a booster pump, in fact was recommended to us to help the RO produce quicker and more purer, first ive heard of this being illegal!  And slightly worrying.  As the water boards seem to be lowering pressure in estates more and more are having to use booster pumps....

This is not the definitive answer, but should help allay your fears that what you read is correct.
http://www.pumpexpress.co.uk/pump_ex_whole_house_boosting.htm

[Ste M]

Colin. I'm in liverpool as well mate so I use the same water company. When I first went wfp I called them and told them what my business was and can I switch over to comercial purely for tax reason. They asked what my usage would be and when I told them a couple of thousand litres at most they said its ok as I don't need a comercial meter. I have called back since and again asked the question but again got told no I don't need one. The last time I called was to get a price per litre off them accuratly and once again asked but was once again told no. This neighbour may of told them you were using a silly amount of water when your actually not.

ste thats intresting to no thank yowere about are ye mate?

Whiston mate. ignore the sheep sha**ing welsh boy with his sarky comments haha