[Tom White]

Here's my latest experiment; Has anyone any tips (and chucking a load of petrol into the back of my van and having done with it would be considered as a tip):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JecGppAYlfE

But I don't like it.  It doesn't work as smoothly as I'd like it too, my pump runs all the time, my hoses seem to be under a lot of pressure too.

I'm considering going back to the electronic flow controllers and giving them another chance.

It is doing my 'ead in! 

[Pope vader]

is it both or just one pump that is playing up

[Gav Camm lammy 283]

tosh seems crazy all them spliters
n valves m8
 i run one pump one controller to a reel
im putting in another pump and controller
to run another reel .
from tank all you need is from outlet yeah
a tee piece to connect each pump
then run fr pumps to yr di s
out of di s to your reels ?
forget all that fannying around returning
water to tank etc , when you running of one pump
the pump is going full pelt
and when 1 of you turns pole off
the other pole will be too high ,  

[Pope vader]

go back to 1 pump, 1 controller,  and but a spliter to go after the pump

http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/info_FIT_TAP_DUALSHUT.html

the feed to each reel   this should sort you probs out

[Gav Camm lammy 283]

take system apart connect first pump
let the water flow through
then connect di then reel
cant understand how your
getting all them air locks?
you might be better off sourcing
an upright tank

[Frankybadboy]

tosh

you need to keep it simple mate.start again BASICS

one pipe out off tank one y spiltter to both pumps.keep pumps low to the floor and filters faceing downwards.



tosh i had flat tank and makes no diffenece,keep simple trust me.


plus with my varisteams i got a job to hear both pumps,sound like yours is going to blow up,running at full pelt

[groundhog]

why not just have two pumps fitted with pressure switches?

[Alex Gardiner]

I would agree with a  lot of the comments already made (they were made whilst I was watching your video!).

Your set-up is just far too complicated. There is no need for a bypass and no need for flow restrictor.

The reason that you probably had problems with your original set-up was because your pumps were mounted too high this would lead to air-locks on the system.

Using the equipment you already own this is what I would recommend:

1. Hose out of tank into a 2 way splitter feeding each pump.
2. 2 pumps mounted low to the floor (pressure switch end almost touching the floor. Best if mounted on a panel that you can move - as if you mount the pumps this close to the floor on the side of the van you will have to un-mount them if you need to work on them or adjust the pressure switch etc.)
3. Make sure that the water connections feeding each pump have no air-leaks (very important, you will not see the leak, but the pump will not work as well.  Use PTFE tape on every screw thread connection pre-pump and tighten all jubilee clips well.)
4. Re-wire a Varistream to each pump. Make sure the connections are all good.
5. Prime system with water and start off with the flow on each Varistream at maximum.

Once you have re-built your system you will then need to adjust the shut-off settings on each Varistream so that when you turn off a pole it shuts off promptly. This will be possible to do if you have set the system up as above.

[Gav Camm lammy 283]

a perfect answer off alex
i just cud nt explain it as easily as
i was typing it thanks alex 

[dave0123]

the flow control tap needs to be on the return to tank not on the hose that goes to reels

[H S and Son]

I can see your problem Tosh, its that big booger up your left nostril. Get rid of that and your pumps will work fine 

[Tom White]

I can see your problem Tosh, its that big booger up your left nostril. Get rid of that and your pumps will work fine 

It's picked!  I don't eat mine though; that's minging.

Anyway, whilst you lot have been trying to help me, I've been fannying about with pump controllers and pumps and set it back up; and it still doesn't work properly.

I think, going by Alex's helpful post that my pumps are too high from the ground; I've done another vid showing that I can get one pump going perfectly - as in plumbed for a one-man set up - but when I put a T peice in and add another pump/flow controller, it all goes pear shaped.

Anyway, I've got some pumps to lower; that seems to make sense.

Sigh.

 

Thanks guys.

[Steven Shoreditch]

Your welcome - ps, your vid did my head in.

[Tom White]

Your welcome - ps, your vid did my head in.

Not as much as it did my 'ead in!  I'm ruddy sick of jubilee clips, stanley knives and cutting hose.

Anyway, thanks all - it appears to work pretty well now I've lowered the pumps right to the floor.  Whew!!!  It's amazing how something so simple can bugger me about so much!  And it won't be a common problem, since my system worked no problem - as a one man set up - with a pumps in a high position; it was only when I added another pump it messed me about.

Thanks again; in particular to Alex!

============================================

I've now got to calibrate the system, but what happens on one of the dials doesn't go in accordance with what should happen according to the instructions and the pump doesn't seem to turn off very quickly when I stop the flow of water by nipping the hose.  Or is this something to do with the pressure switch (which I assume is the little funny shaped screw thing in the nose of the plastic bit?)?

I guess this is tomorrow's job to sort out.

[DaveG]

Absolutely shocking !!!!!!!!!

















 I thought that was Tosh in his profile pic!

[Dave Willis]

I feel sick!

Yes, I would agree with Alex.
Pumps don't like air and air will cock up the varistream sensing too. Use the least amount of hoselock connectors as possible, use jubilee clips if you can. Start the pumps on max flow on varistream to purge all the air bubbles in the system.

After a while you get to know the sound of the pumps and will recognise the knocking sound of air in the pump.

Also check to see if you indeed need a pressure switch at all with your controllers - Varistreams run with them disconnected.

[BORBRYCE]

Have you read your Varistream instructions? Shureflow pumps have to have the wires pulled of the pressure switch, these controllers are designed to bypass the switch. They still work but play up something terrible.


Man u ugly.

[Tom White]

Man u ugly.

But I bet you would if I let you! 

So, because I've taken the wires off the pressure switch, that little screw thing is pointless now?  That makes sense because I've screwed it in, and screwed it out, and it doesn't seem to make any difference.

So, it's just the calibration of the flow controllers that I've got to sort out?

[Lee GLS]

Haven't you got one varistream and one digital controller from the cleaning warehouse? Which one are you having problems with? You don't need the pressure switch, the digital one from TCW has an auto cal which sets the flow and pressure so that you get continuous water flow, and stops the pump as soon as you stop the water flow, and starts the pump as soon as you start the flow again.

[Tom White]

Haven't you got one varistream and one digital controller from the cleaning warehouse? Which one are you having problems with? You don't need the pressure switch, the digital one from TCW has an auto cal which sets the flow and pressure so that you get continuous water flow, and stops the pump as soon as you stop the water flow, and starts the pump as soon as you start the flow again.

Thanks, Lee, it's the Cleaning Warehouse one that's giving me problems.  It doesn't go into auto calibration mode, as it should, according to the instructions.  I'll play with it again tomorrow, and if that doesn't work, I'll give CW a call on Tuesday.

The Varistream works a treat, stopping and starting the flow so the water comes out continuously.

[BORBRYCE]

But I bet you would if I let you!

From behind only, f ook lookin at that puss on the job.
Your wfp woes, I dunno, if ever someone made a simple job complicated it was Tosh. Alex Gardiner post is probably the best to refer too.
Good luck.

[mci services]

Man u ugly.

But I bet you would if I let you! 

So, because I've taken the wires off the pressure switch, that little screw thing is pointless now?  That makes sense because I've screwed it in, and screwed it out, and it doesn't seem to make any difference.

So, it's just the calibration of the flow controllers that I've got to sort out?

yes if you disconnected the pressure switch there is no point turning it any direction as it will do nothing,

by the way my advice would be go tank- pump- hose- pole no controller or by pass

[Lee GLS]

What's it doing when you put it in auto cal mode?

[Tom White]

What's it doing when you put it in auto cal mode?

It doesn't go into auto cal mode.  

I'm to connect hose and brush to the pump and turn on the controller by pressing the up or down button.  Then keep the up or down button pressed till "30" is in the display.

Then I'm to press and hold "Up" and "Enter" together to go into calibration.  "Cal" is shown on the display, but then it goes different to the instructions.  The instructions say I'm to press "Down" to select Autocal, then enter to start, but Autocal doesn't appear in the display.  I get "C30" and if I keep on pushing up or down I get a number prefixed with the letter "C"; which I think is manual calibration.

I'll do a youtube and show you tomorrow! 

[Lee GLS]

After you push up and enter together the it says cal, you then need to push the down button so the number goes down untill you see auto, then hit enter with your flow on and it will do the auto cal

[Tom White]

After you push up and enter together the it says cal, you then need to push the down button so the number goes down untill you see auto, then hit enter with your flow on and it will do the auto cal

I'll do that tomorrow, thanks, Lee; in fact sod it, I'll go and do it now. 

[Lee GLS]

Oh and once the auto cal is done hit enter to save the setting

[Tom White]

Done!  Simple! ( ).

Thanks, Lee, you're brilliant too! 

[Tom White]

I'm really looking forward to getting to work on Tuesday now; I wasn't prior to sorting this out since Thursday was a complete nightmare.

Thanks everyone; this is a brilliant forum.

[Lee GLS]

Glad you got it sorted. 

[Tom White]

by the way my advice would be go tank- pump- hose- pole no controller or by pass

Wor Lass couldn't work like that; not yet anyway. 

[groundhog]

by the way my advice would be go tank- pump- hose- pole no controller or by pass

Thats exactly what I said!! by far the easiest way to work and far less that can go wrong... I can't understand why you all seem to want to make something so simple.. so very complicated!!!!!!  :

[Londoner]

Tosh, This may be a red herring but hear me out and disregard if you think its rubbish.

You are using 1/2" hose. The flow of water through that amount of hose is incredibly slow. Air gets trapped at the top of each loop on your reel and the flow of water is insufficient to flush the air round the loops.

When I first started on wfp about 4-5 years ago a very knowledgeable person (who we all know) who gave me a lot of advise said use microbore otherwise you will always have trouble with airlocks. I followed that and have never had 1/2" tube so I cant say whether it is true.
 
A lot of the vans I see around have yellow hose but I think they are hard plumbed in.

[dd]

As far as I am aware all the professionally installed systems - Ionics, Pure Freedom, Aquafactors etc all use !/2 inch hose.

[Londoner]

Thats right but they are also hard plumbed in which I don't like and is an inefficient method of working for domestics because you have to physically drag the hose all the way to the back of the houses each time. OK for commercials but not for houses snagging on dustbins and knocking over plantpots.
Besides, my microbore is now well into its 4th year and still as good as new, dirty but still OK. Who can say that with 1/2" I'm comvinced they only fit that stuff on new installations because it cheap,

[dave0123]

Thats right but they are also hard plumbed in which I don't like and is an inefficient method of working for domestics because you have to physically drag the hose all the way to the back of the houses each time. OK for commercials but not for houses snagging on dustbins and knocking over plantpots.
Besides, my microbore is now well into its 4th year and still as good as new, dirty but still OK. Who can say that with 1/2" I'm comvinced they only fit that stuff on new installations because it cheap,

what do you mean by hard plumbed in? my system uses all 1/2 hose on the system from tank to pump to Di to hose reel then onto microbore from them on.. thats how i thought all systems ran?

I have used 1/2 hose on the reel for a year or 2 its REALLY HEAVY!! lol

[Tom White]

You are using 1/2" hose. The flow of water through that amount of hose is incredibly slow. Air gets trapped at the top of each loop on your reel and the flow of water is insufficient to flush the air round the loops.

I'm now using tricoflex from tank to pump to reels, and on my reels I've got microbore.  Are you mistaken in thinking that I'm using garden type hose on my hose reels?

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

1/2" up to your reel is just fine. If you used 8mm instead of 6mm on your reel you'd have far less issues!

[A & J Owen Window Cleaning]

tosh mate you are putting a load of pressure on one pump mate. why not have two pumps and one controller and a splinter after them.

[Tom White]

tosh mate you are putting a load of pressure on one pump mate. why not have two pumps and one controller and a splinter after them.

It's all sorted now.  Two pumps, two pump controllers.  The problem was that I had positioned the pumps too high which was creating air locks, and - due to my inexperience - I didn't know if it was the pumps, the airlocks, my hose, or the pump controllers messing me about.

It also worked perfectly as a one-man set up with a high pump, but when I added a second pump, it messed me about.

Anyway it's all sorted now; I just lowered the pumps as low as I can (to the floor) and it works brilliantly.  I'm very pleased with it.  I'm also pleased it buggered me about, since I tried various set ups and I know which I prefer (pumps with flow controllers).

The real test will be at work tomorrow, but I'm confident it'll all be okay.

[Tom White]

1/2" up to your reel is just fine. If you used 8mm instead of 6mm on your reel you'd have far less issues!

Why?

My problem was the positioning of the pumps, not my reel hose.  Still, I haven't tried a proper day of work with my set up, so I've time to have problems yet.

I'll report back - you know I will! 

[dave0123]

i use 6mm and its finee no problems at all. 6mm has to be easier to use than 8mm id

[Londoner]

Thats right but they are also hard plumbed in which I don't like and is an inefficient method of working for domestics because you have to physically drag the hose all the way to the back of the houses each time. OK for commercials but not for houses snagging on dustbins and knocking over plantpots.
Besides, my microbore is now well into its 4th year and still as good as new, dirty but still OK. Who can say that with 1/2" I'm comvinced they only fit that stuff on new installations because it cheap,

what do you mean by hard plumbed in? my system uses all 1/2 hose on the system from tank to pump to Di to hose reel then onto microbore from them on.. thats how i thought all systems ran?

I have used 1/2 hose on the reel for a year or 2 its REALLY HEAVY!! lol

Hard plumbed in means the hose is permanently connected to the van. I take my brush and the reel to the farthest point then feed out the hose back to the van and plug it in. This means there is always some air in the hose when you start but witn microbore it doesn't matter it gets pushed through. With 1/2" on the reel the air gets stuck in the loops on the reel and won't shift. it shows up as weird pressure variations. 

[paul saunders]

Come on Tosh were waiting, and please don't give us any rubbish about working late ............... cos we all know you get a nose bleed if you work later than 2.30pm. 

[Tom White]

Come on Tosh were waiting, and please don't give us any rubbish about working late ............... cos we all know you get a nose bleed if you work later than 2.30pm. 

I worked till 4.30 pm!!!  Actually, work is physically a lot easier, so it's easy to work longer - but I lost a bit of time because of some admin jobs (picking up some new sign written work wear) and dropping off Wor Lass home because she wasn't feeling well (yet she's pretty perky now and she's just left to go to running club  ).

Anyway, I've not had one single problem with my pumps today.  I didn't even have to prime my pumps by running them full belt - I just switched on the flow controllers, grabbed my pole and reel hose and went to clean windows.

Lovely!

Oh, I went over one garage today (I still carry ladders) to clean a massive conservatory, so I just took the pole and hose with me - and had I got an air lock after I was on the other side of the conservatory I would've poured two litres of petrol into the back of my van, followed by a match, and had done with it.

But it worked perfectly.

So, there's a top tip; keep yer pumps close to the van floor! 

[Dave Willis]

I always had trouble with my layflat tank and airlocks particularly when it was half empty. Hit the brakes and the water sloshes forward enabling the pump to take a gulp of air. But I did leave everything switched on whilst driving.

[Tom White]

I always had trouble with my layflat tank and airlocks particularly when it was half empty. Hit the brakes and the water sloshes forward enabling the pump to take a gulp of air. But I did leave everything switched on whilst driving.

Someone advised putting in a tap (which I've got, but not yet installed) at the outlet for this; when the tank is running low and you've got to drive to another location, turn the tap to 'off', so the water in the pumps stays where it is.

[paul saunders]

It's nice when everything goes right init. 

[Frankybadboy]

I always had trouble with my layflat tank and airlocks particularly when it was half empty. Hit the brakes and the water sloshes forward enabling the pump to take a gulp of air. But I did leave everything switched on whilst driving.

Someone advised putting in a tap (which I've got, but not yet installed) at the outlet for this; when the tank is running low and you've got to drive to another location, turn the tap to 'off', so the water in the pumps stays where it is.

got that and never ever done it,because ive never had a air lock.

dont know where you guys find these air lock.