firefly123

  • Posts: 516
gardiners slx 18
« on: June 13, 2012, 08:49:22 pm »
had my slx a  year now when extended to full the pole is fine when i bring the pole down to closed  it swivels around like a roundabout is this do you think general where and tare on pole
shiney one

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2488
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2012, 08:57:20 pm »
had my slx a  year now when extended to full the pole is fine when i bring the pole down to closed  it swivels around like a roundabout is this do you think general where and tare on pole

Yes  ;D
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

Carl@Cwc

  • Posts: 1061
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2012, 09:04:35 pm »
had my slx a  year now when extended to full the pole is fine when i bring the pole down to closed  it swivels around like a roundabout is this do you think general where and tare on pole

I GOT THIS TOO ON A POLE YOUNGER THAN THAT M8
MINES AN SLX 22, replaced all offending clamps and 2 weeks on its back to the windmill pole unless u clamp 1" or more  up the pole.
in my honest opinion its tosh for the money it cost originally plus a new clamp set..

bobplum

  • Posts: 5602
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2012, 09:04:49 pm »
funny mentioned this to richard at isparkle today
  ( thats why he answered first because now he knows something ;D)

,its were the clamp is biting in to one spot.its happening to mine

keyser soze

  • Posts: 1694
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2012, 09:48:56 pm »
sounds to me you have tightened the clamp too tightly and created excess wear at the clamping point  .. easy done on any pole

Carl@Cwc

  • Posts: 1061
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2012, 09:51:33 pm »
funny mentioned this to richard at isparkle today
  ( thats why he answered first because now he knows something ;D)

,its were the clamp is biting in to one spot.its happening to mine

i know thers fair wear & tear but on something that costs what an slx 22 does.        plus a new clamp set in under 12 months
surely this is not really an acceptable timescale on a major fault/s occuring.
if say you bought a powerdrill for £500+ and less than 12/24 months down the line the chuck doesnt work , you get it repaired /replaced foc , under a guarantee.

now when the slx works as it should do there is not a better pole, the elite is very very close and, i am sure if the weights were closer and closed lengths i would be tempted to get another.

i have an elite 30 stripped back and an employee uses that everyday and he doesnt get the windmill thing at all, it goes up easily and clamps.
on single houses where 1 operator jumps out and my lad has to use my slx22 he is constantly faffing about with it and in his words hates using my pole.it does his head in big time

everyday on every house i am continually changing clamp tightness  on different sections , and the more you tighten to stop the windmill efffect , the harder it is to extend on the other sections.
i swear my shoulder niggles are down to this constant battle with an pole that costs ££££££

and dont even get me started on the pathetic plastic fan jets they supply with the new brushes, 2 sets in 1 month on door handles , ,had to fetch the fans out of a medium sill brush to get the medium dual trim back working.

why have i got a medium sill spare well in my opinion it is pants , absolute pants, fans are too high and spray everywhere above the brush head creating dirty drip zones, you have to take out bristles to get even fanjet spray and easily distorts beyond recognition when using hot/warm water ( tried restoring it with the boiling water method by the way,)  it sits on my water tank rolling around as another £40 down the swanny.

i do like the stiff dual trim brush though, i use it everyday. ;D

Blue Frog Systems

  • Posts: 3813
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2012, 11:05:48 pm »
Check your clamps - mine started spinning so i took the clamps apart and found this (have replaced the lot and the pole is like new again)



Only those who risk going too far will truly know how far they can actually go

Carl@Cwc

  • Posts: 1061
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2012, 11:16:00 pm »
Check your clamps - mine started spinning so i took the clamps apart and found this (have replaced the lot and the pole is like new again)





replaced clamps less than 2 weeks ago m8

my thoughts are its worn in main clamped areas = closed

SPE

Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2012, 11:42:30 pm »
Alex did post here a while ago that you can build up the surface layer again on worn sections, giving them a new lease of life.
I've done this on the top two sections of my clx 27.
I went to a local motor shop and bought fiberglass bridging compound ( the stuff you fill big holes in bodywork with before you use the finer filler.
bit messy but a 30 min job.
you mix it spread it on thinly over the area you've marked as slipping, sets in 10 mins then sand it back frequently checking if it slides all the way into the clamp with no sticking (if it does sand some more )
has worked well so far and that was about 6 weeks ago and used daily.
Cant vouch for this method on an slx as thats pure carbon and not a hybrid mix. ;)

Mike #1

  • Posts: 4668
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2012, 05:48:47 am »
Carl the SLX 25 weighs 1375 grams and its extended length is 7.62 metres

The Elite 25 ft weighs 1490 grams and its extended length is 7.01 metres , not much in it

61 cm shorter than SLX and 115 grams heavier , It would be good if the Elite sections were the same length as the SLX  , although this would of course add to the weight but as it is i have no complaints at all with my Elite 35ft with 2 sections off most days .

I would rather have a slightly shorter pole and no clamps issues at all i have not had 1 clamp issue in over a year with my Elite .

The Elite is the best pole i have ever had and even if i got my hands on an slx for a day or 2 , I dont think this would change my opinion . Mike

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7740
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2012, 07:36:43 am »
had my slx a  year now when extended to full the pole is fine when i bring the pole down to closed  it swivels around like a roundabout is this do you think general where and tare on pole

The first and second section on any domestic pole is usually the sections that will receive the most wear (in our experience of the last 10,000 poles). What has happened is that these areas  get clamped on a lot particularly when used on domestic ground floor work  with lateral forces at play when used sideways and combined with the presence of dirt (which there always is in our industry) – this will have led to a small area of wear. Is this the norm to wear in this time? It is very difficult to say as every pole is used differently and in a different environment. There are 4 solutions to this issue:

1. When closing the pole, simply do not fully close this section, by doing this you will be clamping on a fresh area which will solve the problem (this is what I do when it happens on an older pole to me as all of the other solutions involve work!).
2. Similar to above you can wrap about 4 wraps of insulating tape over the worn area so that the section cannot fully close on to it and the clamp holds on a fresh place.
3. You can fit a new clamp, but at the same time saw off the last 15mm of this worn section (at most you may lose 2cm) before re-fitting the clamp to the section.
4. You can re-finish this small worn area. To do so mix up a little two-pack rapid setting epoxy resin (Araldite Rapid or similar) and smear a very thin layer over the worn area. Allow to dry and then sand smooth any ridges. This will have built-up this area and it will work like new.

Mike #1

  • Posts: 4668
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2012, 05:11:03 pm »
Alex has made some good points a experienced wfp user will know to clamp in different areas on each section  as often as possible .

Also as pointed out dont fully close your clamps i have mine half closed when the clamp bites into the section and it does not spin without fully closing i know its closed enough

But having said that if you are doing all this you should not have to replace clamps imho .

I have bought some PTFE spray from gardiners and every 2 -3 months i spray the sections which tend to get used more often this spray puts a laquer coating on which is tough and durable .

Will stick with my Elite though would not have an SLX . Mike
 

Carl@Cwc

  • Posts: 1061
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2012, 10:13:29 pm »
done the add " a couple wraps of tape around top of pole tip today"
and it worked  a treat...

however on a piece of equipment costing what this does (slx22)

is this really an acceptable "fix" for a pole less than 12 months old ????????? electrical tape????????????

i really reallly dont think so to be brutally honest.
i know alex and his team at gardiners are really helpfull and really innovative "but"

because so many and me once windies have no stock / outlay they buy what they think is the best kit ,because they have no monthly outlay to relay tax wise.
hence slx etc etc if you are a business not a job you will get this....

in my honest opinion:

i am really really really dissapointed with my particular slx22 and its clamps .
it is shocking that a pole costing what it does needs new clamps at 8/10 months old.
and this is by a cleaner who looks after his stuff.

no letting them bang together whilst closing , my fingers always there.
washed out once a week.
lubricated regularly.
new clamp set in under 12 months and still spins like windmill.

my slx 22 inc 10" gooseneck has cost me £30 per month to use and now is worthless to sell honestly, its fit for only commercial works at height that can be clamped tightly and not reguarly.

as is my extra sections i ordered to make it longer at a cost of £200 ish ..

how do u describe to sell  gardiner slx 22 with tape around all clamps to prevent windmilling???????????????


Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2488
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2012, 11:29:20 pm »
I'd be happy with 12 months use out of a pole thats used every day.    I wouldnt be too worried if it only lasted around 6 months either.  I agree with alexs that any poles going to get worn through use.

If you find the SLX too expensive I recommmend the CLX.  Its so good, and so much better value, and you can afford to replace it more often  :)
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

Mike #1

  • Posts: 4668
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2012, 07:10:46 am »
Carl it is the pole sections that are wearing down as well as the clamps become worn over time you will extend and collapse your pole over 50 times a day which will cause this wear .

With my Elite pole the clamps look as worn as the pics posted above and still work absolutely fine as for the electrical tape i have put 2 wraps around the first 3 section's of my Elite just under the clamp due to the area becoming coming worn .

I am not able to clamp on this area for a few weeks until it becomes worn but i dont find this an issue .

If as you say you are trying your very best to look after your SLX and are still having issues then imho opinion you have an inferior product ,

In years gone by you would'nt expect a pole or clamps to last much longer than a year but with great thanks to Alex Gardiner and his team things have changed dramatically for WFP users ,

But imho because they have strived so much to create the lightest pole in every aspect this has made the SLX a less durable pole , I am sure when using an slx 35 fully extended this is a great light pole to use but as 18 ft pole its lightness is its downfall judging by the posts on here . 

When you pay over £200 for a pole you expect it to last more than 12 months without buying replacement parts , or even looking to have to replace pole ,

I am in no way wanting to create trouble i am merely making an observation . Mike

dazmond

  • Posts: 23594
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2012, 07:54:55 am »
my 25ft SLX it just over 12 months old and both top sections have worn so i simply clamp them about an inch or so away from the clamp.i use and abuse it every day.when these areas wear i will use the araldite method and sand the worn area down.i will also replace the clamps after 2 years.

i reckon ill get 4 years out of this pole.they are robust in relation to their weight IMO.although i dont reckon ill get another one as a 25ft extreme is my next day to day pole purely for ease of use.


regards



dazmond
price higher/work harder!

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23671
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2012, 09:22:44 am »
My oldest SLX (I have 3) is coming up 5 years old. It has had two sets of clamps (one the free upgrade from metal to the newer type and another about eighteen months ago.

It has gaffer tape holding the brush on (not upgraded to the quick release on this one.) It has a gaffer tape "drip catcher" at the top of the 4th section to stop water running onto my arms and it has a bit of gaffer at the top of the 2nd section since it was 10 months old.

And I've worked with slightly open "nipped up clamps" for years where necessary.

I re-paint maximum pullout markers on the top two sections every month.

It still lets me bang windows shut, work over conservatories at almost 90 degrees, add 1, 2, or 3 sections to go to 25/30/35ft.

It probably gets through about £2500 of work every month.

What's not to love?
It's a game of three halves!

Mike #1

  • Posts: 4668
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2012, 09:29:34 am »
Gold , I would think that the spec on your SLX  is different to the current SLX  as it has become lighter which means the carbon fibre sections are thinner on the current SLX . Mike


firefly123

  • Posts: 516
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2012, 11:44:33 am »
ultra light pole but has for durability useless
shiney one

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7740
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2012, 02:10:18 pm »
Gold , I would think that the spec on your SLX  is different to the current SLX  as it has become lighter which means the carbon fibre sections are thinner on the current SLX . Mike



The carbon fibre wall thickness has been exactly the same on all of the SLX poles from the Mk1 of 2007 right up to the current Mk4 models. This has allowed all of the sections, clamps and parts to be fully interchangeable from all ages of poles.

Halfadaylee

  • Posts: 625
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2012, 02:26:14 pm »
I'd be happy with 12 months use out of a pole thats used every day.    I wouldnt be too worried if it only lasted around 6 months either.  I agree with alexs that any poles going to get worn through use.

If you find the SLX too expensive I recommmend the CLX.  Its so good, and so much better value, and you can afford to replace it more often  :)

Fantastic alternative at 18'

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7740
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2012, 02:36:03 pm »
Longevity of a pole has more to do with the way it is used, the working environment and the way it is cleaned/maintained/serviced than almost anything else. We have clients who have two year old SLX poles that look barely used and yet they are in use everyday and others with identical poles that are almost worn out in 12 months. The biggest wear factor on any pole is trapped dirt - keep this to a minimum and the pole will last.

Balancing time taken looking after the pole and time using the pole is a personal issue with some clients telling me that they would rather carry out no cleaning/servicing/ maintenance on a pole and replace more often compared to other clients, such as one I was talking to this morning who cleaned out his pole completely every single day - these type of clients have a nearly brand new pole after 2 years.

Balancing weight and durability is always an interesting issue for the manufacturer. All carbon fibre poles wear at much the same rate, but this apparent wear can be slowed down by increasing wall thickness. Downside is this makes the pole a lot heavier and more flexible at full reach. By contrast, reducing wall thickness will make the pole even lighter, but reduces durability. We have spent many years working on this to try and get the best usable balance. It is very easy to engineer a heavy durable pole, it is much more tricky to make it as compact, lightweight and rigid as possible which is what most modern window cleaners are now demanding from their carbon fibre poles.

I have a prototype pole that I am using currently which uses a new high-tec carbon fibre material that has allowed me to reduce the wall thickness of each section to just 0.7mm. This has given me a pole that is 35ft long, only 32mm in diameter and weighs only 1.1kg. This is the lightest telescopic pole I have ever worked with and is quite amazing - however I suspect its durability will be comprised as it will still attract the same level of wear as any other carbon fibre and has a thinner wall. I will work with it for a year or so to allow us to assess aspects of it for future pole technology.

At the end of the day there will be a decision for all clients whether to go for a heavier pole or a lighter pole along with their individual characteristics. The choice will often depend on their personal and business priorities.

firefly123

  • Posts: 516
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2012, 03:27:31 pm »
nwhy after less than a year of use you should not have to change the clamps on pole this does not happen on most hi end tools  that are used in industry  with regards
shiney one

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7740
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2012, 05:16:00 pm »
nwhy after less than a year of use you should not have to change the clamps on pole this does not happen on most hi end tools  that are used in industry  with regards

The vast majority of our clients never have to change the clamps. A few do decide to change clamps after a year and get a new lease of life as they are nylon items and do wear with age and use.

Carl@Cwc

  • Posts: 1061
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2012, 06:39:49 pm »
nwhy after less than a year of use you should not have to change the clamps on pole this does not happen on most hi end tools  that are used in industry  with regards

The vast majority of our clients never have to change the clamps. A few do decide to change clamps after a year and get a new lease of life as they are nylon items and do wear with age and use.

I changed clamps and didn't get the new lease of life in under 12 months.

traps7

Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2012, 06:40:19 pm »
I've replaced a couple of clamps and levers on my 3 year old 25' slx and it's given it a new lease of life. I know it's a pain but I think you've got to take some time out to maintain your pole. It's used so repetitively it will wear.

I agree with clamping in different places whenever possible and also I think people are over tightening the clamp. It only needs to be nipped up to stop the section spinning. It's not like a metal quick release clamp on a bike. But it does need to be adjusted regularly else it will spin causing more wear.

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7740
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2012, 07:00:29 pm »
nwhy after less than a year of use you should not have to change the clamps on pole this does not happen on most hi end tools  that are used in industry  with regards

The vast majority of our clients never have to change the clamps. A few do decide to change clamps after a year and get a new lease of life as they are nylon items and do wear with age and use.

I changed clamps and didn't get the new lease of life in under 12 months.

Hi Carl

It does depend on exactly what is 'up' with your pole as to whether changing clamps is of benefit.  If the sections have indeed worn down in localised areas then just changing clamps is not going to remedy this. There are however several other things that can be done to extend the life of the pole considerably - please email me on alex@agardiner.co.uk if you would like to discuss this further.

firefly123

  • Posts: 516
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2012, 07:41:48 pm »
i take great care in cleaning the slx i have every day its cleaned so its appears that the diamiter of the pole thickness could be increased a small bit to compensate for ware and tare and not have to spend lots for new clamps
shiney one

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7740
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2012, 08:21:25 pm »
i take great care in cleaning the slx i have every day its cleaned so its appears that the diamiter of the pole thickness could be increased a small bit to compensate for ware and tare and not have to spend lots for new clamps

A lot of our clients do get longer use from the poles before these sort of issues occur - however this does vary depending on the environment they are used in such as sandy or gritty areas, which I believe you have previously posted that you are affected by. The cost of clamps is relatively small when compared to other fittings and tools and realistically it would be rare for someone to need to change more than 1 or 2 clamps on a pole in its life.

As has been mentioned by me previously getting the balance between longevity and usability is quite difficult and something we have been working on for years. We believe that we have the balance about right as is backed up the 1000's of clients who enjoy working with the SL-X range of poles. You mention about increasing the wall thickness of the sections - even just 0.2mm extra in wall thickness would add about 15% to the weight of a pole which would really be noticeable day in and day out using it.

There is still a lot which can be done to dramatically extend the life of your pole, so please feel free to drop me a line on alex@agardiner.co.uk and we can discuss this further.

Mike #1

  • Posts: 4668
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2012, 08:33:53 pm »
Totally agree with alex and he has to be commended for taking all the flak on the chin and giving helpful advice and trying his very best to address and resolve peoples issues ,

I use the PTFE spray sold by gardiners and this has been my best buy for maintaining my pole along with all the other things such as cleaning each section every week and clamping in different areas . Mike

dave carroll

  • Posts: 95
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2012, 01:34:10 am »
 i have recently purchased an slx25, the only problem is that i don't use my 4ft ''down stairs' poles any more. (unless it's a bungalow) therefore it's doing twice the work of my previous 25footer. i too am getting the ''windmill effect'' but so too has EVERY  pole i've ever had, so as said earlyer i clamp at various places.

        Dave

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23671
Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2012, 10:15:15 pm »
Dear Alex,

I would like to test your forthcoming poles for you in a real working environment. I will even do this for you at no charge!  ;)

Go on, you know you want to!


Malc
It's a game of three halves!

Tom White

Re: gardiners slx 18
« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2012, 10:16:59 pm »
Me too, Alex, I'll give the poles an honest review with video 'n' everything!

Please....   :D